Folding Bikes - NO bikes in Tescos

Yes, calling someone an idiot is a personal attack. I have my views and you have yours, of course, and people discuss those views on internet forums. Insulting me is totally unnecessary. Have I insulted anyone here? No, I've simply stated my views, as you have.

Don't waste time with this Ziemas girl. If you look at his past posts, this is all he loves to do, troll on the forum.

Maybe this thread needs to be locked up.

Don't waste time with this Ziemas girl. If you look at his past posts, this is all he loves to do, troll on the forum.

Actually I like to provide helpful info, although sometimes I have a different opinion from others. That's not trolling. This after all is a discussion board, where people will share different views and ideas on the same subject. If you disagree with me tell me why, and we can discuss it, although emotional arguments usually don't go very far with me for concrete everyday issues.

Yeah, I kind of agree with Z here - people have different reasons for getting folding bikes - some to commute, some for everyday life, some so they can take bikes on travels with them, some because they are normal bikes with added flexibility. Therefore we are all going to see different reasons for having bikes and coping with setbacks. I agree with Z that Tesco have the right to set whatever policy they like in their stores, but disagree with him in the fact that I think they should justify the policy (and it should be in line with my thinking!). Anything else is getting too emotional - remember, this is a forum with people from different cultures and countries posting, often off the bat. The written word is not always able to convey the emotion and inflection of people's opinions so we should all just chill.

Tesco's policy still sucks though!

Actually I like to provide helpful info, although sometimes I have a different opinion from others. That's not trolling. This after all is a discussion board, where people will share different views and ideas on the same subject. If you disagree with me tell me why, and we can discuss it, although emotional arguments usually don't go very far with me for concrete everyday issues.

This Ziemas character drags you down to her level, then proceeds to beat you through vast experience in trolling. There was a commuting thread that was shut down where she incessantly called American commuters whiners for complaining about their bad experiences. She's doing the same here. She doesn't even own a folder, and thus does not know the essence of having one. LOL.

I might be wrong, but I don't think Ziemas is a girl. I gave him a frame once, a while back, and his real name is not female. Maybe you just meant that as an insult?

I might be wrong, but I don't think Ziemas is a girl. I gave him a frame once, a while back, and his real name is not female. Maybe you just meant that as an insult?

Did you ever find a home for the RD?

This Ziemas character drags you down to her level, then proceeds to beat you through vast experience in trolling. There was a commuting thread that was shut down where she incessantly called American commuters whiners for complaining about their bad experiences. She's doing the same here. She doesn't even own a folder, and thus does not know the essence of having one. LOL.

Actually I gave my thoughts and the Americans called me an anti-American for pointing out a difference in the mindset between American and European commuters.

Did you ever find a home for the RD?

Yes! Although the bike in question is not built yet. It's going to go on an R20 with 24" wheels, and an SRAM Dual Drive. The plan is to build the fastest possible R20, and though it's still probably over the top for that, I love the idea of a 20 with a Dura Ace RD with drilled pulleys. Sweeeeet.

Yes! Although the bike in question is not built yet. It's going to go on an R20 with 24" wheels, and an SRAM Dual Drive. The plan is to build the fastest possible R20, and though it's still probably over the top for that, I love the idea of a 20 with a Dura Ace RD with drilled pulleys. Sweeeeet.

:roflmao::roflmao::roflmao:

Excellent!

Actually I gave my thoughts and the Americans called me an anti-American for pointing out a difference in the mindset between American and European commuters.

Actually Ziemas trolled so much, calling the commuters whiners, etc, that the OP requested that the thread be deleted. Here she is doing the same thing, taking a passive-aggressive route that skilled trolls love to do.

This Ziemas character drags you down to her level, then proceeds to beat you through vast experience in trolling. There was a commuting thread that was shut down where she incessantly called American commuters whiners for complaining about their bad experiences. She's doing the same here. She doesn't even own a folder, and thus does not know the essence of having one. LOL.


:thumb:

Do not show emotion we should all be logical. Live long & prosper! :D

Interesting.

If it were me, and this happened in the US, I would start a letter writing campaign. Start sending letters to the President of the company and post about so that it can be shared and after a few thousand letters my guess is they would review the policy. It doesn't happen overnight but it will get a response. Send REAL letters. Email is to easily ignored.

And IMO, these all or nothing policies are stupid and once an viable alternative is presented, usually they are amended.

Eastbiker, tbh - at the moment, you are the one causing problems on the thread!

JSnow - tbh, in the UK, that would count for nothing. The large supermarkets have so much power that they really just don't care.

mroli they dont care for now. It depends how consumers react or how much publicity they get. until folding bike users are greater in number and also require them to sho, the stance won't change. Even then it is a big challenge becaus as you pointed out Tesco are so dominant. Dixons used to have the same attitude and look at the loss of market share in consumer electronics & white goods retailing they've experienced to online rivals. Shame Ocado is so expensive as tney do some nice stuff. Ironically Asda aren't the worst and at least quite good value and quality in their food unlike their Walmart parent. Would be curious to know their policy on folding bikes. Except for smaller shops folding bikes that have compact footprints and latch together fine should be allowed in larger stores. There are no issues only their corporate arrogance. Something quite well documented in George Monbiot's 'Captive State, the corporate takeover of Britain'.

It was very nice of you to ask about whether it would make a difference in a bag. I guess they probably enjoyed the power of refusing that because it was a reasonable compromise. In this case rationality goes out the window completely as it is simply a piece of luggage, an item contained in a bag. Does that mean Tesco will ban people with a suitcase or a large sports bag or rucksack then? I bet if you bagged it and walked in without asking permission, they probably wouldn't know the difference unless the same security staff recall the incident . It's certainly worth a try. I feel sorry that Tesco's dominance in your area is so great you have no real alternative and are surrounded on both sides by them. Town planners and local boroughs should have been empowered to regulate comeptition more at a local level not just on the basis of planning criteria. Unfortunately anti-competitive outcomes are only reviewed at a national level by the Department of Trade & Industry.

mroli who knows maybe this will be put forward for review? It is only a possibility of course! I followed up by emailing Tesco customer services too as I found your whole thread a very relevant issue and interesting. Maybe a better response than from your Mr Greenie, then maybe not? Totally agree his responses were abrupt & rude. Tesco didn't get where they were without some notion of understanding the customer but that can often change as big companies become complacent at the pinnacle of their success. Respnse below:

Thank you for your reply.

I do fully appreciate the comments you have made in relation to this matter and would like to assure you that your feedback has been passed to the relevant department.

This will be taken on board at the next review meeting. I cannot guarantee that action will be taken, however your views and comments are invaluable to us.

I do hope that the above is helpful to you.

Thank you.

If you have any further queries please do not hesitate to contact us at customer.service@tesco.co.uk (http://us.mc355.mail.yahoo.com/mc/compose?to=customer.service@tesco.co.uk) quoting

Kind Regards


Louise Morrow
Tesco Customer Service



Date: 04 July 2008
Subject: FAO Andrew Grassie

Dear Mr Grassie,

Your communcations on not allowing folding bikes has reached the blog below:

http://www.bikeforums.net/showthread.php?t=437158

I would have to say your replies on folding bikes are very poorly justified and even have an arrogant tone to them. You 'do not feel the need to justify', that's very nice of you indeed. A Brompton folding bike for instance folds smaller than a pushchair. By the way what makes a bike more unsanitary than a pushchair or the what people bring in on the soles of their footwear?

You plan to open a large superstore near me soon. I'm allowed to bring my Brompton folded into the local Co-op store. You can rest assured they will continue to get my business in the future.

Francis Mulleady





-------------------Warning------------------------

This e-mail is from outside Tesco - check that it is genuine. Tesco may monitor and record all e-mails.




---- Disclaimer ----
This is a confidential email. Tesco may monitor and record all emails. The views expressed in this email are those of the sender and not Tesco.

Tesco Stores Limited
Company Number: 519500
Registered in England
Registered Office: Tesco House, Delamare Road, Cheshunt, Hertfordshire EN8 9SL
VAT Registration Number: GB 220 4302 31

Cool - we'll see! I think it is easier to bury their heads in the sand, but maybe something will happen! Mind you, if anyone from Tescos does come on here, they'll just see the rolling scrap about trolling!

......

JSnow - tbh, in the UK, that would count for nothing. The large supermarkets have so much power that they really just don't care.

& just to put your comment into perspective.......

"The life of Sir Terry Leahy reads like a business fairytale. He has risen from a council house in Liverpool to become chief executive of Tesco, which is less like a supermarket and more like a kingdom. Tesco operates in 12 countries with 3,250 stores. Worldwide sales last year were £47bn, with £36bn coming from Britain. It takes a staggering £1 in every £8 spent by shoppers in the UK. Leahy is an unassuming man, but he seems to have nothing less than world domination on his mind. Terry Tesco, as he is widely known, wants the supermarket to generate more than half its turnover from overseas within the next five to ten years. If Tesco’s international business “comes of age” as Sir Terry hopes, the Liverpudlian is in line for a windfall. A long-term incentive plan could pay out up to £11.5 million from 2011."

The above quote is from a recent MSN "money" page.

& just to put your comment into perspective.......

"The life of Sir Terry Leahy reads like a business fairytale. He has risen from a council house in Liverpool to become chief executive of Tesco, which is less like a supermarket and more like a kingdom. Tesco operates in 12 countries with 3,250 stores. Worldwide sales last year were £47bn, with £36bn coming from Britain. It takes a staggering £1 in every £8 spent by shoppers in the UK. Leahy is an unassuming man, but he seems to have nothing less than world domination on his mind. Terry Tesco, as he is widely known, wants the supermarket to generate more than half its turnover from overseas within the next five to ten years. If Tesco’s international business “comes of age” as Sir Terry hopes, the Liverpudlian is in line for a windfall. A long-term incentive plan could pay out up to £11.5 million from 2011."

The above quote is from a recent MSN "money" page.

Excellent... He didn't get there using the tactics that the rude dude did.

Just email (terry.leahy@tesco.com) the issue to Terry. Be polite, concise, state the facts clearly, and offer a compromise. Don't make threats.

And yes, that is his email address (although I'm sure it is monitored)

:)

While it's popular for folding cyclists to compare their packages to mothers with baby buggies I think its clear that baby buggies and their users are much more considerate. For example:
1. they don't put oil on their devices which, unless completely sealed, is liable to get other things dirty.
2. they don't use anything with generates black soot on the surface of their devices.
3. they don't purchase devices that are hard enough to scratch other things. Baby buggies are often made of soft plastic or at least covered in rubber.
4. they don't try to hoist heavy packages into the air and risk dropping them on other customers or wine displays. they roll their baby buggies and they certainly don't try hoisting them into the air while their 3 year olds are in them.

The problem is that instead of practicing the same common courtesies outlined above most folding cyclists take the far more rude and selfish stance of:
1. they oil their chains to improve their own performance at the risk of staining or dirtying the people around them. They never even consider completely sealing off the oil or simply eliminating it and even those who cover their oily chains with a few metal tubes (like the Brompton) are too selfish and inconsiderate to realize that clothing can still slip into the gaps between those tubes and rain and usage can still cause the oil to drip onto the tubes themselves.
2. they use rim brakes to save weight and so they can ride a little faster without ever considering the fact that the black soot which subsequently gets all over their wheels will likely find it's way onto someone else's dress.
3. when choosing material for their devices they always pick the hardest so that in if there is any scratching going on their bikes are guaranteed between the scratcher and not the scratchee. I don't know how many times I've heard that carbon fibre isn't suitable for folding bikes because it is liable to get scratched. How selfish! Carbon fibre is perfect for folding bikes because it is less liable to scratch something else!
4. they always opt for whatever package will allow them to meet most sizing rules (smallest rectangular dimensions), but never consider if perhaps they might be able to reduce the risk of dropping or damaging other people's property with a bike that is easier to balance or push along (for example, many folding cyclists would prefer to swing a heavy Brompton around wine displays than reduce the risk of damage by using something they can more easily control like a Strida). Once again how selfish!


Now of course not all folding bikes and cyclists commit all of these faux pas, but to the best of my knowledge there is not a single folding bike on the market which allows the owner to be considerate enough on all these points. So I'm not surprised that many policies do not make exceptions for folding bikes.

Unfortunately there is not an easy solution. Opposite pressures from automobile drivers to have maximal performance to keep up the highest speed possible make it difficult to compromise riding performance. Moreover, anti-bicycle policies will not be changed unless a sizable number of cyclists start being a little bit more considerate because, quite frankly, it's not worth the trouble to train security guards to discriminate between the selfish and nonselfish when the vast majority of folding cyclists are inconsiderate jerk asses (so even those of us that are being considerate may not see any immediate benefit unless they use a bike that can truly be completely hidden from sight, even sight of the package itself, like an a-bike or carryme that can be worn in a backpack which is invisible to the security guard until after you walk past him).

However, I still think it's up to us to change the way people view bicycles. Next time you purchase a folding bike please try to think of someone other than yourself. Have those of you with internal hubs tried not oiling your chains? Have you tried fitting hub brakes to your bike? Why not consider plastic or carbon instead of steel or aluminum (your bike might not last as long due to accidental scratches, but the paint in your office's hallways will last longer)? Even if you don't like it, is it so bad that you can't just do it anyway out of courtesy for others?

While it's popular for folding cyclists to compare their packages to mothers with baby buggies I think its clear that baby buggies and their users are much more considerate. For example:
1. they don't put oil on their devices which, unless completely sealed, is liable to get other things dirty.
2. they don't use anything with generates black soot on the surface of their devices.
3. they don't purchase devices that are hard enough to scratch other things. Baby buggies are often made of soft plastic or at least covered in rubber.
4. they don't try to hoist heavy packages into the air and risk dropping them on other customers or wine displays. they roll their baby buggies and they certainly don't try hoisting them into the air while their 3 year olds are in them.


One thing to solve all of that which you may or may not know of...
Baaaaag.

And to everyone who says Strida's are fine because they don't have grease/chain... unless yours is clean, it still has dirt on it that can transfer to someone's clothes. I know mine is filthy at the end of the day if there has been any rain at all.

Haha, bag's finished! Man, I look ridiculous carrying a bag that's three times as deep as I am and half my height but boy does it make carrying it folded a lot easier and no mess!

One thing to solve all of that which you may or may not know of...
Baaaaag.

How does that solve:
"4. they don't try to hoist heavy packages into the air and risk dropping them on other customers or wine displays. they roll their baby buggies and they certainly don't try hoisting them into the air while their 3 year olds are in them."?

It doesn't, in fact, it makes it worse. If you bag a Strida or Brompton then you can't roll them anymore and you're left swinging around 25 pounds of metal at store displays.

Haha, bag's finished! Man, I look ridiculous carrying a bag that's three times as deep as I am and half my height but boy does it make carrying it folded a lot easier and no mess!

Not only do you look ridiculous, but you also look like your going to bump the other customers with it or knock stuff off the shelves (and you probably will if you keep at it long enough).

Other people with large duffles usually have cloths and other soft stuff in them. If you're going to bring 25 pounds of metal into the store then it really needs to stay on the ground.

And to everyone who says Strida's are fine because they don't have grease/chain... unless yours is clean, it still has dirt on it that can transfer to someone's clothes. I know mine is filthy at the end of the day if there has been any rain at all.

Yeah, but rain tends to make people's shoes pretty dirty too. You could cover the top, but in order to keep from swinging it around you'd need to leave the wheels out and they are still much bigger than shoes.

How does that solve:
"4. they don't try to hoist heavy packages into the air and risk dropping them on other customers or wine displays. they roll their baby buggies and they certainly don't try hoisting them into the air while their 3 year olds are in them."?

It doesn't, in fact, it makes it worse. If you bag a Strida or Brompton then you can't roll them anymore and you're left swinging around 25 pounds of metal at store displays.


Actually, you could make a bag with a hole in the bottom for the wheel just fine. Unfortunately, my Dahon doesn't quite wheel well. The risk of dropping a well designed bag is pretty low. Of course, this would depend greatly on the person. I'm used to carrying a heavy freakin' bag on one shoulder.


Not only do you look ridiculous, but you also look like your going to bump the other customers with it or knock stuff off the shelves (and you probably will if you keep at it long enough).

Other people with large duffles usually have cloths and other soft stuff in them. If you're going to bring 25 pounds of metal into the store then it really needs to stay on the ground.
Uh, even large duffels full of clothes can tip over stands. Fat people are likely to knock things/people over too. We should ban them. I can put my bagged bike in the shopping cart. At least, in our grocery stores here anyways. I've never been to a "Tesco". If I do bump into stuff, I assume full cost of damaged goods. Just like anybody else who knocks things over.

I don't know. I just can't see myself knocking anything over if I do things right. For instance, if I'm going to go into an area with a lot of (clothing?) racks, I'm going to put down my bag just as I would park my cart, out of the way but within my sight. Bottles? Same thing. The 7/11 here asks us to take our backpacks off by the entrance anyways. In other small enough stores I'd do that too (point is to keep an eye on it).

Bags have their limitations. Very useful in the right context but otherwise I tend to look like I'm carrying the world's largest handbag around - I often feel like carrying a sandwich board with 'Not to scale' written on it as I know I look a tad bizarre, it all looks a lot more cumbersome than it really is. The people in the library (no lock would last outside there, crap location, no CCTV, no rails) are used to me but to be honest they get wall to wall fruitloops all day long. But in the supermarket...it would be weird. Nobody minds if I fold it and wheel it about in a trolley although I do instinctively drape something across it to break up it's profile. Still gets noticed but everyone wants to know what it is or marvels at the practicality, etc.

Bags have their limitations. Very useful in the right context but otherwise I tend to look like I'm carrying the world's largest handbag around - I often feel like carrying a sandwich board with 'Not to scale' written on it as I know I look a tad bizarre, it all looks a lot more cumbersome than it really is. The people in the library (no lock would last outside there, crap location, no CCTV, no rails) are used to me but to be honest they get wall to wall fruitloops all day long. But in the supermarket...it would be weird. Nobody minds if I fold it and wheel it about in a trolley although I do instinctively drape something across it to break up it's profile. Still gets noticed but everyone wants to know what it is or marvels at the practicality, etc.

If you don't mind me asking, which folder (or folders) do you typically carry in a bag? Just curious to see how different designs might alter people's perception of the issue.

I don't mind. A Dahon Speed D7. Looks OK folded but in the Dahon El Bolso bag begins to look a bit silly. Actually it looks daft.

Tesco are a "profit before people" company. I try to shop at the coop , who have ethical policies and would have handled this very differently I feel. I find it strange that masive car parks are provided for cars. Small secure area for bikes, you must be joking!!!!!!!!!!!!!

the tide will turn keep complaining !

Also you could ask Tesco how policy this fits any corporate responsibity policy. And compain to the local MP that sustainable transport is not being faciltated. I feel it is about time that legislation was brought in to provide amble storage to encourage cyclists. Apparently Amsterdam station has more bike storage than all the UK stations put together.

Tesco are a "profit before people" company. I try to shop at the coop , who have ethical policies and would have handled this very differently I feel. I find it strange that masive car parks are provided for cars. Small secure area for bikes, you must be joking!!!!!!!!!!!!!

the tide will turn keep complaining !

Based on this sanitary policy I presume that before allowing them into the store, Tesco must be sanitising the wheels of all the trolleys that go into their car park.

That'll be the day! :)

Generally, I wouldn't hop into an argument between sanitary store policies and whatnot, since it's all a case of opinion. I'd vote, if they don't want bikes, so be it. I don't want my bike stolen, so I'll take my business elsewhere.

The only thing I have an issue with, is this line:
"As far as our stores are concerned, we do not feel it necessary to justify a
policy like this. However, we feel that bikes which are road vehicles which are
oily an unsanitary."
Unnecessary to justify a rule!? That's never true. Rules exist for a reason, and if there is no reason, there can not be a rule. There should always be justification to a rule, and it should always be given. That's what keeps people from making up utter ridiculous rules and keeping them because they won't show any reason for it. I could demand that everyone in an office wear lavender with large polka dots, and then say "I feel that I have no need to justify myself."

I would agree that the justification can be found if one searches for it though. The whole idea about unsanitary oily parts coming near food. However, there was an argument to that justification. That customer service fellow did a horrible job, because he merely repeated his previous e-mails, only slightly re-worded. After an argument gets refuted, someone should at least offer a rebuttal or some sort or alternative reasoning for it. Like, that Tesco guy could've at least said that he is unable to alter these rules, or some other person to contact about the rule. The responses simply seemed pretentious, as if that customer service guy really didn't know what was going on. He simply repeated the idea that "We're not going to change any of our rules, we're not going to tell you why, and park your bike outside." Its like an automatic response without any acknowledgement of the previous e-mail. No mention of folding bikes or bike theft. Now that's just impoliteness and bad business sense.

have been riding two folding bikes for only 2 months now.
been owning the cheap 40 dollars folding bike, before finally bought a 250 dollar (expensive) dahon.

going once into a hotel, I gambled, whether my dahon would be allowed inside.
yes, to my surprise, the doorman approached and took my dahon to the concierge.
secondly, to another hotel. it was raining, my 40 dollar bike so dirty, that I did not want to be refused, so I park the bike at the motorbike parking lot.
no worries.
only 40 doolars. definitely not a brompton.
no urge to always have the bike beside me.....

but maybe I'll get myself a big plastic bag. IKEA, or just a cloth bag...............
just in case...

well, i've just carried my brompton around a tesco metro and been passed by a member of staff wheeling his mountain bike through the meat section.

A new Tesco opens beside me soon. If they ban the Brompton then I will take my business elsewhere, simple as that really. Some people on this thread argued that a bike is a bike but then they misunderstand folding bikes. Mine are allowed in most shops, pubs, buildings and peak hour trains. I'd never bring it into small crowded shop.

The sanitary argument applies to the soles of shoes, people who don't was their hands, kid's buggies and even shopping trollies that have been in the car park outside. Recently a jumped up security guard try to prevent me brining in a folded Brompton into the WH Smoth bookstore in Paddington saying it was a sharp object and was a health & safety risk. I insisted on calling the manager who said all bikes are allowed in folded. That was a wise decision because the amount of Brompton and other folding bike owners who pass through Paddington rail station every day is not to be sniffed at.

That was a wise decision because the amount of Brompton and other folding bike owners who pass through Paddington rail station every day is not to be sniffed at.

I never sniff my Merc. You never know what you might run through while trolling through the park on the way home.

:)

"Recently a jumped up security guard try to prevent me brining in a folded Brompton into the WH Smoth bookstore in Paddington saying it was a sharp object and was a health & safety risk."

WH smiths sell pens which are also sharp objects !

Under health and saftey law "Fore seeable Risks" should be identified,controlled,and minimised. Often something which does not fit known risk assessments is left to commonsence application. This is the case here I feel. The secruity guard did not proberbly know what he was talking about, but felt he had better act on the side of caution. Health and safety is often given as a reason for a decision that has been made up in haste !

How often is ways of reducing the risk actually suggested ? ie to allow strange behavivors like taking a small folding package in to a large shop appling a coat or cloth covering the bike would completley negate it as a sharpe object risk. Their is much more risk in being poked with an umbrella for heavens sake!!

Come on shops that are anti-bike or go for the easiest possible excuses' ,usually misapplication of health and saftey, lets have some proper rationale. Then we can have some genuine solutions directed at them. and improve customer care rather than being fobbed of as in this Tesco case.

I think you folks simply need to inform Tesco employees and other belligerent individuals that a folded folding bike is simply not a bike. A bike, by definition, must have two wheels in tandem. While a folding bike is a bike when unfolded, once folded the wheels are no longer in tandem and, thus, it is no longer a bike.

Therefore, Tesco's bicycle policy is irrelevant, just as it is irrelevant to wheel chairs, segways, wooden legs, etc, etc.

The only folding bike I would ban from a shop or building is a Pacific Carryme :P