Tandem Cycling - Does stoker find it easier then riding a single?

I have noticed that when I ride our tandem (as stoker), that the effort I have to put into it is probably close to 50% less then I would have to do on the single. I'm not the most confident rider either on my single or the tandem, but the tandem does give me a chance to relax more without having to worry about shifting, concentrating on traffic or braking. I still get scared sometimes going through intersections since I can't see what's coming. About a month ago we were at an intersection, our light had just turned green and we were just about to make a move to get across the street when a driver rear ended another driver that had stopped for the red light and ended up pushing the first car all the way out into the middle of the intersection. If we had been any quicker we probably would have been hit too.:bike:

My wife and I are relatively new at tandeming, and "work load" is a pretty regular discussion. I'm not sure if our experience on dirt is equivalent to yours on the asphalt.

On her solo bike, Anne is a slow "pumper" up long climbs, rather than maintaining a high cadence.

When we're on the tandem, she magically converts into a "spinner," and as a result, works harder — or, at least, differently. She finishes the rides with tired muscles, sore the next day, unlike solo finishes, where she's physically drained, but not sore.

But on the tandem, we take fewer breaks, and though we're traveling faster than she does solo, the *time* between breaks is increased as well.

My theory is she's contributing less energy than when solo, but the faster cadence makes it harder work. I'm expecting that, slowly, Anne will get adept at spinning, and will transfer the cadence to her solo riding.

But I can only offer this assessment knowing that I'm traveling 50% slower than on my solo bike, but am as worn out as ever whenever we get to where we're going. But then again, what else would I expect from two unequally paired riders?

I guess we could install his and hers Powertaps and begin tracking output!?! :D

My stoker is better on a single bike. She paces herself better. On the tandem she can feel how hard I am working and pushes herself to "do her share". Ends up getting fried half the time leaving me to ride the tandem back to the car so I can pick her up.

Stoker Kay has always worked hard on the tandem. She has not ridden a single in about 25 years.
She rode her first century way back in the early 70s . . . solo . . . on a Huffy 10-speed with upright bars!
Been tandeming for decades and she has has done her share (and more) of the work.
She does find it easier to ride TWOgether.
Rudy and Kay/zonatandem

Great topic for discussion -- cgallagh and I have talked about this many times. For a long time he felt that I'd lose focus and slack off pedaling, and while I denied it, after installing a CatEye, I can see where I may have become distracted and backed off my effort.

Riding the tandem isn't necessarily harder, although it is different. I don't control the gearing, and sometimes Chris will pick a higher gear than I would have chosen. I prefer a higher cadence overall than he does, and we compromise on the tandem.

I think I ride my half-bike harder, since when I'm on it I'm usually training, and that's much more intense than our tandem rides.

Tandems, like 18 wheelers, are slower to start and harder to slow down and stop. Hello, inertia -- meet your real-time example.

We get mixed results at times. I would say overall ours is a good match for Cadence. The places we do sometimes have problems is climbing and tighter turns.

When we begin climbs if I don't "feel" her effort, I'll mention we're climbing or let her know it's shift time.

In tight corners off road, there have been several times where her efforts began too early through the corner, and this has caused the front wheel to slide sideways running the turn wide. In this situation I need to ride the rear brake while reminding her to let us get through the turn then she can put out the effort to accelerate.

Neither is any big deal just we need more time together riding these situations.

I should add that she hasn't really mentioned it being easier or more difficult than a 1/2 bike, just different, and we seem to have more fun together on the tandem.

PK

We just started Tandeming, and my stoker is a non rider, which is a good thing considering all the issues.

But cadence and effort are difficult to explain clearly to someone who hasn't ridden solo. Seems one has to experiance (through experimentation) that high cadence really does equal less effort.
I'm lucky in that I have to tell her to "lighten up" on the pedals more often than not. To make things even more interesting we have a munchkin on a trail-a-bike adding to our overall weight and rolling resistance, so we end up grinding instead of spinning on occasion.

How does one tell if the stoker is "slackin' off"? Should I feel her pushing through the pedals? Or what? And what are the gentle yet motivating words a Captain uses to get the extra effort needed?

I don't want to discourage her from riding, as this is the most fun I've had on two wheels since doing downhill pacelines....Naw, this is more fun.

Cheers

How does one tell if the stoker is "slackin' off"? Should I feel her pushing through the pedals? Or what? And what are the gentle yet motivating words a Captain uses to get the extra effort needed?

I don't want to discourage her from riding, as this is the most fun I've had on two wheels since doing downhill pacelines....Naw, this is more fun.

Cheers


I just jokingly ask if she's pedaling.

The way I tell is to slightly lower my effort and feel if she's working or coasting.

My stoker is actually getting quite accustomed to all this and on a very easy MTB group ride, she was sitting up no handed taking photos of the group on dirt road sections and chatting away with others. I really never expected her to be so comfortable as to get a camera from my Camelback, and shoot photos then put it back without stopping. Obviously this wasn't nasty singletrack but it still surprises me.

PK

If you can feel the stoker 'pushing' or have to tell her to 'lighten up', obviously pilot is not working as hard as the stoker . . . experience is the best teacher and eventually you come up with a compromise pace on the twicer that's comfortable for pedaling TWOgether! Neither rider should overpower the other's pedal stroke . . .
However, sometimes stoker Kay 'turbocharges' through a traffic light if she thinks we migh not make it.
Pedal on!
Rudy and kay/zonatandem

we're starting on our third decade riding together. we bought a santana for our mutual wedding present twenty years ago. We used to have heated discussions about who was working and who wasn't...now I can tell when Patti starts to power down on the hills and I just seek out a lower gear.

It seems like I'm always shifting on the tandem (compared to a single) but, then again, that's why you have all of those gears, right?

Nancy learned to ride a bike as a kid, but I taught her to "ride," as in really ride. So she learned to ride her road bike with my pedaling techniques and preferences, as we'd ride together on our singles with me pulling and her copying me. But she always found riding her single bike pretty tough. She finds the tandem much, much easier. We have his and hers HRMs, so it's easy to track our effort. I'll occasionally call out my HR just to let her know that yes, I am working as hard as she, or I understand that we are both taking it easy. The magic thing is that we are almost never more than 2 beats apart whether climbing or on the flat, and without trying. It just happens that way. :love:

I almost never feel her pedaling. If I do, I'll comment on the part of the stroke where I'm feeling her, and she'll smooth it out again. It feels very like riding my single. (It's a CoMo Speedster) I do work a little harder and we average 2-3 mph slower in hilly terrain that I would on my own. The huge difference is for her. We can ride our tandem 50 miles, where a 20 mile ride on her single just slays her. And it's not that she's not working on the tandem. Like I say, our HRs are about the same and we get tired at about the same time.

So I don't know what it is, but it works. She just cannot believe that the countryside goes by that fast and that she can pedal to such wonderful places in such comfort.

My stoker is on her third season riding bikes (coincidence, we met 3 years ago). The first two were only on the tandem. This year she got her first single. Running is her passion not riding and she usually runs at least 8 miles a day during the week and much more than that on the weekends, so needless to say she is in great shape with strong legs. It would drive me a little batty when we would finish a 30-50 mile ride on the tandem and she would need to go for a run to get her workout while I headed toward the showers.

Well, her first season of riding her single has been an eye opener. When we finish a longer ride on the singles she is spent and admittedly (but not out loud) my shattered ego feels a little better. I know biking will never take the place of her running and just feel blessed that she does enjoy biking. I don't have expectations about how hard she works on our tandem rides but do enjoy every minute of her company. I think this season with the reality check from riding her single, I am am getting extra effort from her legs. I also know sometimes she is back there just taking in the scenery which is great because it helps her develop more of a passion for riding. I do enjoy listening to her talk about her day, the passing scenery, or her political viewpoint as I get my workout and quality time with her.

I think as she continues to progress and get more comfortable on her single bike the effort will reflect on the tandems average speed. Outside of our riding together she has no other biking experience and I have never pushed her that hard. I know a year ago she honestly thought she couldn't get a good workout on a bike, but riding with me on her single changed that. Now she just signed up for a swim lesson with visions of a triathalon in her future.

I love to ride. Riding the tandem with someone I really care about and want to be around is just icing on the cake. For me, how much effort she puts out doesn't really matter, I will adjust our distance to time available to ride.

I also need to admit as much of a sport she is at riding with me, It would take all the effort I have just to run around the block and can't even fathom running a few miles, she is ok with this. I am blessed to have the best stoker ever.

I'm lucky in that I have to tell her to "lighten up" on the pedals more often than not.

How does one tell if the stoker is "slackin' off"? Should I feel her pushing through the pedals? Or what? And what are the gentle yet motivating words a Captain uses to get the extra effort needed?


We've had a few instances where I tell Anne to "lighten up." Maybe it's because I'm burnt, but she usually counters with, "I felt you slacking off, come on" or "I felt like I was slacking off and now I'm giving back." (something like that).

Either way, it's a losing proposition for Anne, a fast path to exhaustion. Not if she's battling my legs, in whatever state they may be.

It's pretty clear to me where the stoker's energy level is at. The bike can feel like a lead sled, or a rockship, depending on her range of output. If she's slacking, it means she's getting worn, and I shift down a gear ease up on the pace (trying not to change the cadence). If she's pushing hard and we don't have too far to go, I'll try to rise to the occassion and take the free ride. Otherwise I politely ask her to chill out, 'cause she's running like a hampster in a wheel and won't make the distance.

It'll be interesting to read what I just wrote in a couple of years, when she is presumably a stronger and we have gained experience. I bet I'll disagree with the "chill out" bit.

When we started out I would always have to ask for "just a bit more" from my stoker. This year with many more miles under our belts we can both tell when either one of us has "let up" just a bit. Usually when I am a little tired I can feel a surge from the rear and she will say something like, "Dad, I could tell you were a little tired and I could push us a little faster/harder/over the top of the hill," etc. When I feel her slacking or tiring I ask if we are getting a flat. It is amazing how much you can tell by feel even after just two seasons riding together.

In most cases, it is other single bike riders that joke about her not doing any work. At times she has snapped pictures, chatted with riders around her and even answered her cell phone while on the back of the tandem. But when someone else says she has an easy time of it, I jump in and say that she sometimes does more work than I do.

She does find it easier to ride the tandem rather than her single bike. Sometimes I have to force her to ride single because I want to ride single. She is also the type that will 'give up' and let huge gaps develop if she starts to get dropped. On the tandem we are able to bridge gaps and jump out ahead many times, that keeps the interest and motivation high. We love hammering the 'hammerheads"!

Next step for us is more winter riding, and time trailing next season. We are at a distinct disadvantage as our total age will only be 68 next season, so we will end up racing with a bunch of 30 somethings. Now if I could only get my wife to ride the tandem!:(

We have his and hers HRMs, .... The magic thing is that we are almost never more than 2 beats apart whether climbing or on the flat, and without trying. It just happens that way. :love:

.

Are your HRM's coded? When my wife first started using an HRM, the readout was awfully close to mine. Turned out her HRM was picking up my strap. Coded HRM's solved the problem.

Ditto merlin, I got an HRM and it very nicely tells me what the pilot's
HR is, and refuses to register mine. I am keeping it so I can judge
where the pilot is in his power curve. Looked at coded HRM but
they seem to be 4-8x the cost of the bottom end one I have.
On a recent mountainous ride pilot was running 145-158/min. On
a subsequent Tues nite blowout ride with the wannabes, he was
going between 158 and 170/min ( we still got dropped on the hill).

My stoker claims to work just as hard and I believe she does. She does feel that she goes faster uphill as well as on the flats though. I feel that I am moving faster on the flats, however on uphills I am definitely moving slower than on my single. If you put out the same effort that you do on your single, you should be able to move faster as a team. It all depends on whether you really care about how fast your are going or would rather just enjoy the ride at a slower speed.

Because a car missed you as you were moving out more slowly into an intersection is good luck but it says nothing about a tandem being more safe, just that you got lucky. In another situation, you could be on a faster accelerating bike and miss having a severe accident because you sped through the accident zone. You might find yourself in a situation where a more quickly handling bike is better able to dodge an accident. Nice to hear you were able to avoid the accident though.

We work very well as a team and most of the time our riding feels "seamless". We set out with a goal (i.e., nice recovery ride, fast-paced tempo training ride, etc.) so we are working at the same level on any given ride. We both ride our singles alot - I might ride harder on my single than the tandem but that is because our single bike rides are often group training rides with our coaches.

Are your HRM's coded? When my wife first started using an HRM, the readout was awfully close to mine. Turned out her HRM was picking up my strap. Coded HRM's solved the problem.My setup is coded, hers is not. So her HRM will pick up my strap, but not vice versa. We'll trade HRM's next ride and report back.

This is an interesting question, and I think it just depends.

My husband had a small group of biking buddies. They do pretty much the same route every week. On his single he would beat them up and down every hill.

So then we get a tandem, and he takes us out on this ride with his friends. At the time I do not have a road bike, so hills and all are new to me. In the beginning we are a bit slower than the friends. I think I'm working very hard, but then again, I can sit up and look around and chat, so maybe not. Takes a few months, and then we can catch the group on the down hills. Few more months and they are extremely happy to have us on the ride to sit in our slip stream on the flats and downhills. A few years go by and on the tandem we can pretty much pull ahead whenever we want. And on those days he takes his single he can make it exciting for them.

Meanwhile I get a single, and head out with the ladies, I can climb by myself now. Unfortunately he gets sick. Chemo can take it out of you, but because my legs have gotten stronger, on the tandem we can still keep up with his group, but on his single he's now sucking wind. Eventually he can no longer hold me up on the tandem, and but I'm happy to ride with him. And we meet the group for the coffee at the end.

It was only a few months from that last tandem ride until we buried him. I still ride with his group on my single. On the ladies ride I'm one of the faster ones, but with the guys they have to wait for me a little. I know I put about the same effort in, it's just different.

Wow, Well written. I am choked up.
Good thoughts your way.
T

My girlfriend stoker did not ride at all before we met. We've tandemed together for about 2 years now. She bought a single bike about a year ago and she rarely rides it. We had the usual cadence issues on my Rans Seavo. Now we are riding a Flevo back-toback tandem with independent cadence (two separate drive trains). She has her own shifters in back. Cadence problems solved. She prefers riding tandem because she doesn't have to cope with maneauvering, steering, etc.

tandemania.blogspot.com (http://tandemania.blogspot.com)

Are your HRM's coded? When my wife first started using an HRM, the readout was awfully close to mine. Turned out her HRM was picking up my strap. Coded HRM's solved the problem.We traded HRM's yesterday. Stoker had the coded HRM and I took her uncoded one. The uncoded HRM picks up a coded strap, but not vice versa.
So it turns out that my fantasies of marital bliss only deviated slightly from reality. Duh. You were right, the stoker HRM was picking up my strap. However, with that fixed we still were only occasionally a few beats off. As she got tired, she had to work harder to keep her HR up with mine. She liked being more part of the team, though, so it was all good. And we cut 4 minutes off our time for the 32 mile loop. Its great fun to feel your stoker accelerate the bike under you.
Looks like the cheapest coded Polar HRM is $110. Highly recommended though, as it takes all the guesswork away about who's doing what.

*dabbing tears*
Brewer & I send our best thoughts to charmed.