Fifty Plus (50+) - Signs of the times.... report here

Things are sure weird lately.

1. I was getting something signed by my neighbors which would allow me to butt a fence up to theirs...I live in a neighborhood where most people are long retired and have lived in the same homes since the 60's. What I found out is that out of the 6 houses that abutt my propery, 2 are just starting foreclosure and 1 is in a short sale. I was stunned... it seemed like the kind of neighborhood where the ratio would be much lower, so I can barely wrap my mind around what the rest of the city is like.

The short sale house is selling for $120k less than it was on the market for, which was $50k too high a year ago.

2. The public boat launch by my cabin was empty on 4th of July morning, when normally there would be boats lined up to get on the lake. I've asked avid boating friends in the cities if they're getting out on the lakes at all, and they say they stay on the lake where the boat is moored or they just anchor somewhere and sit.

3. The local "lux" grocery store chain, which has been open 24 hours a day since I can remember is now closed at midnight. Also, I had a list of stuff to buy which took me into a lot of stores I haven't been in for a few years, and the selection and amount of goods in these stores was much less. The Shelves were noticeably more airy, and there were few options for what I was looking for.

There are also some unexpected positive things that have happened, besides the LBSs being incredibly busy and more people riding bikes.

1. There are a ton more openings in child care. I think it's become more cost effective for people to not work lower paying jobs if they have to drive too far.

2. The whole boating thing is much easier on the environment. I'm a kayaker, so I don't know first hand, but my step mom said it can cost $300 to fill up a lot of these boats. That's a lot of gas being used that is purely recreational. Plus, it's so much nicer on the lakes without all the boats, and there's less pollution.

3. Some people I know are buying shares in organic farms, and each week they get a share of whatever produce was harvested. Some of it is typical produce, some of it I've never heard of, but it's the new "in" thing to do around here.

The traffic level on the roads is noticeably reduced, just about every time I go cycling!

I think this is true in a lot of places. I see a lot of for sale signs in areas near me where a house usually sold before the sign even made it up.

IMHO we are in for a long transition period where our standard of living goes down while the rest of the worlds goes up. It's not about the war, the price of gas - it's more about the internet. It is becoming a flat world and those countries on the top will get dragged down while those on the bottom lift themselves up. It happened in the 70s & 80s with Japan, in the 90s with Korea now it's Asia's time (and maybe Russia as well) - it will be a lot to swallow this time around and we may choke on it for quite awhile.

A lot of SUVs for sale.

Friends who own one are now saying that they have to keep it because they can't afford a new car because the trade in value of the SUV is so bad.

The other good to come out of this, at least in our area, is that young people are getting closer to being able to buy a house and stay in the towns where they grew up. That hasn't been true for a long, long time. IMO, it would be great if more women had the financial option to stay home and raise their own children. I was a letter carrier for many years, and it was always so sad to deliver mail to entire neighborhoods where no one was home during working hours. Blocks and blocks of empty neighborhoods. No small children, no mothers.

I agree, TruF! I'd love it if moms or dads were able to stay home with the young kids!

Here's another good thing, however small: couples are running errands together more. They say that they don't drive somewhere to pick up one thing they need if it isn't necessary. So they wait until they need something else, which ends up being a list. Then there's so many errands to run at one time in one place, that couples go together. I like that!

Positive note here: We've greatly expanded the vegetable garden. It is satisfying in every possible way.

That's some preety cool thoughts. I live in a bedroom community that's grown up over the last 40 years but it is right next to an old town with a real neighborhood, old smallish houses close together on beautiful tree lined streets with all the shops you need within walking distance. For me - I am 2 miles away from the center - it is not walking distance but riding distance and I have been contemplating a trailer so I can do the grocerys on the bike.

As far as the "stay at home" moms - it really depends on if our culture changes from "wanting more than your parents" to "quality of life and family". When we had our second child (17 years after the first) my wife stays home now and our second is so much happier, doing better in school. We don't have the discretionary income anymore, we have to watch every dollar but family life is so much better.

I hope you guys are right - this change will drive better/stronger families and communities.

Hi Solveg,

Are you still in Kansas? Or back in Minnesota?

I'm in MN right now. "Up Nort" as they say...I won't be going back to KS until the end of Sept. Kansas is really hurting, though. People are really curtailing their activities...but there seems to be more town activities, too. I saw an ad in the local paper that someone was trying to get together a "game day" where people in the town got together to play cards and board games. Nice.

I've been dreaming of having a second home someplace bike-friendly, inexpensive, and pleasant. With the intention of moving there and living on a modest retirement income. Room for fruit trees and a garden. Four real seasons, but not too much snow. Walk or bike into town. Coffee shops, bookstores. Maybe a small artist community just starting up. In a place where people won't look at my husband doing Tai Chi and think he's dangerous.

How do you like having two homes, Solveg? Do you work from home?

I've been dreaming of having a second home someplace bike-friendly, inexpensive, and pleasant. With the intention of moving there and living on a modest retirement income. Room for fruit trees and a garden. Four real seasons, but not too much snow. Walk or bike into town. Coffee shops, bookstores. Maybe a small artist community just starting up. In a place where people won't look at my husband doing Tai Chi and think he's dangerous.


Among the many options:

http://www.visitstaunton.com/attractions/attractions.htm

Great cycling, artistic and cultural but not too froo-froo, reasonable real estate prices, four seasons, but not too much snow.

Drive less. Cycle more. That's win/win for me.

I think there is less traffic on the roads around here. Cycling seems more fun with fewer cars buzzing by you.

Americans have enjoyed too high a standard of living, I think. There's nothing wrong with walking up to the grocery store instead of taking your Lexus SUV. And my family is putting off buying our IMac. It's brutal, I tell you, brutal, but we're coping just fine until our current computer bardk anmk,.aaaaaaaaaaa

Our neighborhood had its annual July 4th kiddies bicycle parade. ABout 100 kids riding everything you might imagine dress up their bikes, and the motorcycle police esort them through the neighborhood, sirens blasting and all.

This year we had far more than before, which I attribute to folks simply staying at home over the 4th of July instead of heading to the mountains.

However, this is really tough on the mountain tourist trade, and the ski areas are bracing for a difficult upcoming year with airline fares higher, and gas higher. I didn't know that the ski areas subsidized the airline flights, but they do, at least as reported by our local paper.

I LIKE the idea of doing more "in neighborhood" kinds of things.

We've noticed less traffic on the freeways even on weekend days; makes for a nicer commute across town. We've seen more scooters and small motorcycles. And more brand new small cars in driveways.

We hate to admit that other currencies are worth more . . . really the American $ is worth(less).
Folks been doing the house refi-thing, borrowing against home equity (hey, get an equity loan sez your friendly bank). For everything else there's visa or mastercard. 'Charge it' is the US motto; just refinance, pay off one credit card by borrowin' off another. No money down, not interest for 72 months on a car loan. Buy a new mattress: no money down and no interest 'til 2011? A mattress?!
Now some bikeshops are doing 'easy payments.'
Let's take some responibility for our own actions/inactions!
Pay-as-you-go may be a whole 'new' idea!

....Americans have enjoyed too high a standard of living, I think.

That came to my attention while watching some HGTV shows in which the typical American home buyer walks through a prospective home to buy and, rather than saying "ooooh, nice big kitchen!" they say "that's' outdated, will have to be replaced" about a perfectly fine (though "outdated" by American standards) counter top, cabinets, whatever. All the while some poor woman is sweeping her dirt floor in a village somewhere on the other side of the world..........

I have a hard time with the concept that the high gas prices are hurting recreational boat use. I mean, have you looked at the price of some of these (not too large, either) boats? I mean, if you can afford a $75,000 boat, you ought to be able to spring for the $300 to gas it up!

On the other hand, if all of the $75,000 boat that you could afford was the loan payment, then I guess I could see how you are in trouble.

And there, my friends, is the crux of the problem - money was way too easy to "rent", and a lot of folks over-consumed!

I saw this a lot in my neighborhood back about the time of dot com bust. Another big McMansion would go up, and a young couple would move in. Mom would have a big SUV, Dad would drive a 4x4 full-size extra-cab pickup truck, and the driveway would have a parking pad for a boat, a luxury camping trailer, and there would be a Harley in the garage for nice Sunday afternoons.

Next thing you know the Harley would be MIA, and for-sale signs would appear on the boat and the camper. Sad. The 4x4 would disappear, and somebody would be driving a Hyundai.

Sad.

But it's their own fault.

Don't buy what you can't pay for.

Can't say I've seen much difference in traffic. Wife is not participating in slow down. Other night she had 2 TV's on and 2 room AC units running. Hasn't stopped her driving. Neighborhood appears to have less then the normal amount of homes for sale, but suspect nobody wants to sell in the low price, no buyers market. Been looking at a nice flat, biker friendly, 55+ only, developement for next home, but unfortunately my home buying money is invested in Ford stock. So it looks like I'm staying here for now.

We have some rental property and two of my renters are having a very hard time paying rent. One is an old couple on a small fixed income. They have very few posessions and don't seem to mind, but with everything going up they are having a hard time paying $475 a month. Another is a home remodeler / drywaller who is now taking jobs doing yard work and landscaping at a golf course. His rent is $500 a month and he is staying about a month behind. He also has few posessions and normally lives pretty cheaply but he says that the few people he bids jobs to are telling him that others are working much cheaper. One of the things hurting this area is that the main industry the last few years has been homebuilding. Now there are a lot of new homes sitting empty. All other industry has moved over seas, and it's not just us that is getting hurt by this look at this http://www.guardian.co.uk/uk/2006/oct/30/christmas.shopping TWL is correct we are going to have to all learn to live differently, drive less, smaller cars. We are back to gardening like we did 20 years ago and my parents and grandparents did. It won't be bad once we get used to it.

Among the many options:

http://www.visitstaunton.com/attractions/attractions.htm

Great cycling, artistic and cultural but not too froo-froo, reasonable real estate prices, four seasons, but not too much snow.

Mmmm. Sounds and looks really nice, Jet. I checked out the area in Realestate.com, and although there isn't much available, I can't believe the lovely old (huge) houses you can get there for what is still considered low in the Bay Area. Do you live in Staunton? How are the politics? No offense, but Bay Area politics and I have been at serious odds with each other for years now. Not looking to go to the other extreme, however. I just want to live someplace where people make decisions based on what makes sense and will work for the long term, not what makes them feel good or self-righteous.

Political polarization is unfortunately another sign of the times. :(

On the homebuilding side- The Government over here decided about 4 years ago that we are about 2 million homes short for the Growing population. They have designated the areas where the houses are to go and a lot of them are in the South. Lots of plots of land have been sold to the developers and some of these have been developed. Problem is that what are required are Starter homes for people trying to get on the housing ladder and they cannot afford the £200,000 required to buy these houses. ($400,000) They have not looked at the market- have not provided the right types of housing and are now paying for being greedy. Couple this with the fact that you cannot get a Mortgage at present and the Building trade is in dire straits.

And on the gardening side- Home grown vegetables rock. Especially with the way all food has rocketed in the last 6 months. All I want to know now is how to grow a cow.

How do you like having two homes, Solveg? Do you work from home?

Ummmm. Jury is still out. It's actually 3, since I'm up at the cabin most of the summer. It's expensive in many unpredictable ways. I had figured out the utilities at each and chose things I could cancel with no fee when I wasn't there, but what surprised me was how many things I needed at each place that I wasn't going to haul there each time. And it's only natural to want to paint and decorate each one. I had a lot of hand me down furniture and kitchen stuff which I distributed to each place and my main house is really stripped down right now. But there's cleaning stuff, clothing, etc. You start out thinking you don't need to buy much, but then you discover you need it. Think on this line: 3 vacuums, 3 washers/dryers, 3 irons, 3 sets of pots and pans... and I went as cheap as I could on my KS washer and dryer only to find out it wears holes in my clothes! So now I'm afraid to bring any of my MN clothes down there.

And then you forget stuff you mean to haul with you, so you have to replace it. And then there's the maintenance cost of 3 places.

It's a lot of hassle, but it also keeps you out of ruts. You feel kind of fresh and rejuvenated each time you go to a different place. It's also a little disorienting, as you start to feel like you life is where you're at, and the rest of it seems a little dream-like. All in all, it takes a lot of organization, but I think it really pushes you to live life to the fullest.

Yes, I work from wherever I'm at.

Here's another thing to think about on the economy front. My step brother is a pilot. He left his job with an established airline to join a start-up airline which failed. He couldn't find a job and now they're going to China. China is paying him $18,000 a month to fly, and it's tax free if they stay over there a certain number of years. That says a lot about how China is growing faster than they can handle, and when you compare it to our economy, it's amazing.

BTW: Does anyone know why, if China is drilling for oil 50 miles offshore of the US, why we're not doing the same thing?

BTW: Does anyone know why, if China is drilling for oil 50 miles offshore of the US, why we're not doing the same thing?

Timely, that! I just signed the "Drill here, Drill now, Pay less (http://www.americansolutions.com/actioncenter/petitions/?Guid=54ec6e43-75a8-445b-aa7b-346a1e096659)" petition. What this country is paying to the Middle East for oil amounts to the largest redistribution of wealth in history.

Yesterday's 131 mile ride took me across Cedar Creek Lake, which is 60 to 80 miles from most of the DFW metroplex, and there were SUV's zooming too close past me, one after the other, and boats everywhere on the water. I think everyone here just watched their credit card balances rise, and kept on driving and boating.

One of the problems out here with all the foreclosures is the number of empty houses in some neighborhoods. People are illegally living in them, and drug dealers are taking over some. The empty houses and neighborhoods are starting to get fairly shabby. It's time for the cities to make the owners(banks) keep the houses up to par and provide security. The lenders were willing to take risks to make a nice profit, so now they need to accept the responsibility of the consequences.

Sign o' the times where I ride: New York City, Manhattan and Brooklyn:
Streets are busy as ever with cars, but a definite increase in folders and just any kind of bicycle you can think of. Restaurants are crowded, doing a brisk business as always.

Sign o' the times where I live: Westchester County
Less vehicular traffic, no apparant increase in cycling. Restaurants are slower; I can get a table easier at a famous local sushi joint, where there was a line six months ago.

Sign o' the times where I travel: Newark Airport and beyond
It is a mess. Reduced flights, tense FAs onboard, ATC delays make a routine 2.5 hr flight always into a 4 hr. flight, not including the time to extricate yourself from the bloody airport.

I agree, TruF! I'd love it if moms or dads were able to stay home with the young kids!

Here's another good thing, however small: couples are running errands together more. They say that they don't drive somewhere to pick up one thing they need if it isn't necessary. So they wait until they need something else, which ends up being a list. Then there's so many errands to run at one time in one place, that couples go together. I like that!

Mrs. Road Fan and I now have two bikes with panniers, so we can do a weeks shopping in an 8 mile bike ride.

Sign number one: In my suburban Philadelphia neighborhood the parking lot at the commuter rail station is much fuller and many of the trains are now standing room; a year ago one could almost always get a seat.

Sign number two: Although the housing market is not as hard hit as some areas, there are several "for sale" signs on virtually every block I ride.

Sign number three: I had to travel by cab to several different downtown/uptown hospitals on Thursday afternoon. My cabbie was an out of work union carpenter who had renewed his "hack" license and shares driving time with another cabbie. I honestly can't recall the last time I took a cab and the driver spoke English as his native tongue.

Sign number four: My youngest child is a high school senior this fall. I have raised all my kids in the house I grew up in, a sprawling 4,000 square foot 7 bedroom suburban monstrosity. Although I live within my means (only have one credit card and I pay it off every month), I cannot justify the cost of heating this place when there are only two people living here. I burned 1800 gallons of fuel oil last winter, and oil is likely to be nearly $5 a gallon this year. So I'm selling and we'll be moving into an 850 square foot two bedroom apartment.

One of the problems out here with all the foreclosures is the number of empty houses in some neighborhoods. People are illegally living in them, and drug dealers are taking over some. The empty houses and neighborhoods are starting to get fairly shabby. It's time for the cities to make the owners(banks) keep the houses up to par and provide security. The lenders were willing to take risks to make a nice profit, so now they need to accept the responsibility of the consequences.

I have some buyers interested in bank-owned properties, and they are repelled by the condition some of these houses are in. Thursday a REO-heavy agent in our office had to respond to this -- someone had gotten into one of his listings, plugged the upstairs sinks and bathtubs, and turned the water on. It was flowing out of every vent in the house, save those on the roof. The damage is currently inestimable; the water seeped through the ceilings and into the first floor and was pouring out the front door. Only a hard-core investor will be interested in this property now. It may well have mold issues, given the recent temperatures and the amount of water damage.

While I sympathize with the owners who lost their home, I feel for the first-time homebuyers as well -- who can afford to remediate this kind of destruction and still afford a mortgage?

It is indeed a sad state of affairs.

Houses in my area that were well over $500k a while back are down to around $300k. I could probably find something to buy and get out of this stupid rental except for the fact that I am making a lot less money than I had been. I'm a mechanic at a car dealer and business is worse than I can remember ever. We are paid piecework, so they probably won't lay any of us off, but they are laying off office and management. Several large dealers in the L.A. area have closed this year.
I do see lots of big trucks for sale, and have one myself that I only drive once a month, or so.
Traffic, while slightly less than before, still sucks.

We have some friends, a couple, who are trying to sell their huge $500K~ house. It's been on the market for quite some time with no results. They have "greatly reduced" the asking price...still no serious buyers. They are both retired and may be forced to stay in it, even though their children are grown and have flown the nest.

Room for fruit trees and a garden. Four real seasons, but not too much snow. Walk or bike into town. Coffee shops, bookstores. Maybe a small artist community just starting up. In a place where people won't look at my husband doing Tai Chi and think he's dangerous.

You might try northwest Arkansas, Fayetteville to Eureka Springs. Bike friendly, though hilly. A university campus to an arts community. Hot Springs might be nice too, and good access to Little Rock. The bicycling is good, but the city council is not very progressive about it. Little Rock has some good neighborhoods for that too.

I've been dreaming of having a second home someplace bike-friendly, inexpensive, and pleasant. With the intention of moving there and living on a modest retirement income. Room for fruit trees and a garden. Four real seasons, but not too much snow. Walk or bike into town. Coffee shops, bookstores. Maybe a small artist community just starting up. In a place where people won't look at my husband doing Tai Chi and think he's dangerous.

This is kind of a plug, but I really think you should consider this:

You might think about Salt Lake. I'm not kidding! It has all that you are looking for. Four seasons, mild winters (in the Valley), everything you could want within walking distance if you live in/near the central city, very liberal city and county governments/social and environmental policies (a blue city in a red state), bike friendly, immaculately clean and well maintained city within a few miles of total wilderness on the east and west. Zero religious problems/"cultural conflicts"/social unrest where we live. Excellent health care. University of Utah is 1.2 miles away. World class/Olympic-worthy skiing 1/2 hour away. Moab, too.

We live in a 1915 bungalow on the edge of the city in a tree-lined neighborhood near "9th and 9th" where everything is within walking/biking distance. We have a small orchard, vegetable garden, "South-of-France" garden, and complete privacy in an urban setting. You can ride here 3 full seasons, and many days in the winter when it is clear (but cold - 25-35* most days in Dec/Jan/Feb). Reasonable real estate prices, a stable economy, few foreclosures where we live. You can buy a 1400-1800 sqft house in great condition in a good neighborhood for about 250-350K. I am a California native and I had to be dragged here kicking and screaming. I now love it, and we don't plan to move for a long time.

Other signs of the times here: Fourth of July weekend - dead. No traffic, no noise, just peace and quiet. I bike to work and the traffic in the past month has gone down be at least 1/3. Lots of other bikers out at 7 AM too. Traffic volume on our street down by at least 3/4. Gas stations seem deserted. Went to the LBS twice today (new tires, front dr) and the place was packed. I saw a guy buying a $2500+ road bike like it was nothing. People test riding cross bikes in the parking lot.

I think the money not being spent on gas is being spent on other things, one of which appears to be bikes.

The last three weeks at the LBS bicycles have been flying out the door along with racks, baskets, pannier baskets, commuting stuff and people with electric motor assisted bikes have been coming in for flats, tubes, etc. Additionally, I have noted a real change in people's attitudes - not so happy, stressed and anxious. There is no way to directly correlate it to gas prices in our area - $ 4.59 and higher in some places, but coincidental none the less. I don't think the $ 600 incentive is going very far to improve the economy.

A gentlemen came in who does marketing for a firm that publishes foreclosure information and said that we haven't even seen the worst of it yet here in California. That there is some derivative of a mortgage that began to escalate in April and will have the most negative impact beginning in August.

A young couple came in and she does investigations for mortgage fraud and stated that a rash of indictments for loan originators and borrowers will start happening very soon and in a number of states they are already starting to take place.

An economist who consult for large corporations evaluating their position in the market and the impact that many variables that have and might have on their future discussed his belief that me may actually be reaching a Malthusian Catastrophe (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Malthusian_catastrophe) (click for Wikpedia Definition = Robert Malthus). He went on to say that the world has seen very few Malthusian Catastrophe's such as the Irish Potato Famine and the Great Depression and Dust Bowl, but we may be approaching one on a Macro level.

Interesting stuff for a LBS - gee you can't talk about the latest Carbon Bikes all the time.

Everyone's comments speak volumes about the condition of the economy across the US. Interesting reading!

Where I ride I see:

People using their boats as expensive patios.

Nothing on the Canal but Canoes, Kayaks and ducks (those feathery things).

Road congestion that reminds me of the sixties (or lack of congestion).

It now seems more economical to ingest my share of dairy via Ice Cream as it
may be cheaper than milk. just an opinion

Most folks I know are struggling to keep their one 100K - 150K home, even with
two incomes.

Our bus fares have just come down, and I believe the same is happening in
other cities accross the country.

Many small repair garages (automobile) are going out of business.

There are bicycles everywhere. Most of them don't fit their riders. Most riders
aren't wearing "Cycling specific Clothing", or helmets.

The gap between the "Haves" and the "Have Nots" is the widest I've ever seen
in my entire life, and it seems to be getting wider. I just hope that I can get my
last two through their last three years of school without going so ddp into debt
that I loose MY house. It's not so much the tuition, but getting them back and
forth that's breaking our financial backs. Many folks here seem to be fairly well
off and are observing these changes, others here are living these changes,
but there's is no doubt that a major change is under way. Those who can are
leaving the suburbs and returning to the cities. Seemingly affluent naighborhoods
are going belly-up and low rent districts are being re-populated with folks
more affluent than the current residents which causes even more upheaval.
Me thinks we're in for a wild ride.

Timely, that! I just signed the "Drill here, Drill now, Pay less (http://www.americansolutions.com/actioncenter/petitions/?Guid=54ec6e43-75a8-445b-aa7b-346a1e096659)" petition. What this country is paying to the Middle East for oil amounts to the largest redistribution of wealth in history.


You are ignorant of the condition of oil. You have been fooled into thinking that oil is easily gotten out of earth.....Go ahead I hope they drill in every possible spot in the US, so that the American public can finally get off that crutch of "we can always drill here" that they have.

Once they realize that even then, the price of gas will only come down about $0.50, hopefully then they will begin to CHANGE and adapt their lifestyles to suit the decline of cheap oil.

Oil companies do not make that much, they have some of the LOWEST profit margins for any goods or services provided. the reason that they make so much from us is that WE USE ALOT. Even if you take out their profit the gas would go from $4.50 To about $4.25 per gallon. Its expensive because it's expensive to retrieve and process.

Accept it and adapt accordingly.....or suffer.

Things are sure weird lately.

Sometimes I think that people of our generations have lived the best of times.:roflmao: Certainly a few tragedies along the way (Vietnam; Kent State), but many of us were born after WWII, and enjoyed a life without AIDS and terrorism on our shores. We were arrogant and delusional as a country, I think, and we are reaping what we sowed, as someone suggested.

Circumstances will definitely get worse before it gets better. Sometimes I wonder if I'll be here to see it (57). :notamused:

Re: the real estate market---my mother had to be admitted to an independent-living facility two months ago, and I'm sweating like crazy hoping her home will sell for at least tax value so I can pay her expenses.

Re: the gas, I wish I had purchased a Prius when I could have.:cry: No SUV, but used to fill-up at $25, now it takes $50+. I'll admit, I'm a bit scared. Learning to ride gives me pleasure. I'm going out guns blasting and wheels a turning. :bike2:

IMHO

What does this mean?
I'll probably think "Duh" when you tell me, but I can't get the brain cells around this.

What does this mean?
I'll probably think "Duh" when you tell me, but I can't get the brain cells around this.

In My Humble Opinion

Also

IMNSHO

In My Not So HUmble Opinion

:o
What does this mean?
I'll probably think "Duh" when you tell me, but I can't get the brain cells around this.

IMHO...in my honest opinion?

edit: I think DnvrFox has it...I posted too soon :o

... No offense, but Bay Area politics and I have been at serious odds with each other for years now. Not looking to go to the other extreme, however. I just want to live someplace where people make decisions based on what makes sense and will work for the long term, not what makes them feel good or self-righteous. ....

:thumb: We have friends in the Bay Area, and avoid the subject of politics when we visit.

I am traveling in Peru for two weeks, hiking, visiting ruins, etc. Some signs of the times here...

...seeing Chinese businessmen traveling in non tourist towns. The Chinese are making investments all over South America so they can get access to natural resources, especially minerals and oils. I had read this before coming but was still surprised to see so many Chinese business folks on the flight into the town where I am now in Northern Peru.

...very few privately owned cars outside the big cities. People travel by bus, taxi, moto taxi if they have money...by burro or by foot in the countryside. Some fields worked with tractors, but we have seen plenty of fields being worked by hand. Saw burros threshing wheat the other day while on a hike in the mountains.

...several of the airlines that were started here in past couple of years are struggling, cutting back flights or apparently going broke. Trapped by higher fuel costs.

...we have seen a number of demonstrations protesting rising cost of fuel, food. There are calls for a national strike next week on the 9th. Food prices going up fast. Copper miners in Southern Peru have been on strike for some time.

...btw, the best retail business in Peru seems to be stores offering a combination of national - international phone calls via the Internet. Even the tiniest towns seem to have them, usually combined with a few terminals offering Internet access. Internet cafes in the neighborhoods outside tourist areas are offering Juegos de Red, which is Spanish for online-network games (I assume they are massive multiplayer games like World of Warcraft(.


Still, this is one place where the dollar is still relatively strong...beautiful country, amazingly nice people, stunningly beautiful scenery.

Bit of hope for most of us. Apparantly the economy over here is not in "Recession". I have lived through two recessions in my adult life- First one in 81- just as my first daughter was born and the wife stopped working. Think we lived on home grown veg and sausages for about 5 years. So much so that neither of my daughters will eat sausages now. 2nd was in 93 and that one hit hard. We were back on sausages again and House prices fell like a stone. That did not bother me with a mortgage a lot smaller than the house value but there were always too many days left at the end of the month.

Things will recover- all we have to do is cut back and survive.

Saturday evening's network news brought up a story about reviving a national speed limit (read: bring back the old 55 mph rule).

I am finally old enough to recognize patterns:

What's left after Nixon? Stagflation, increased fuel prices, and the worst recession since the 30s.
After Reagan? Recession, unemployment, banking "crisis," depleted personal savings, housing bust, and "the rich get richer."
After Bush? Investment crashes, insane debt, war, the rich get even richer, the rest of the world hates us, and all the rest of the above.
And for our British friends, after Thatcher: All of the above plus a destroyed social welfare system (we never had one to destroy, otherwise it would be gone too).

Why, oh why do all the people who eventually lose big vote for these criminal monsters? Are they thinking some of the "gold dust" will rub off on them?

What a world...what a world.

Looks to me like this thread has finally made the turn into a P&R thread. Expect a moved thread soon!

Well, I've noticed two things in our sleepy little community. There are almost no more dogs. I haven't seen anyone walk any dog for over two weeks. And there is no dog food, or cat food for that matter, at the grocery stores.

Now I'm trying to come up with other explanations, but I'm thinking that the economy is so bad that people have turned their dogs into little Fidoburgers. Now that they are gone, they're having to eat the dog food because they can't afford corn, milk, and bread. Those Republicans criminals have done it to us again. Did you know that there is a general election later this year?

What we need is hope. Hope for our four-legged friends, hope that some day it'll be safe to wag their little tails without fear of being.....oh, it's just to awful to think about.

Looks to me like this thread has finally made the turn into a P&R thread. Expect a moved thread soon!

Well move it if they must. The personal has become political again, unfortunately. OK, back to biking. Did a 10 mile loop through downtown this morning as a sort of "stretching" ride after 50 mi yesterday. Stopped to appreciate our newly restored capitol building - gorgeous! I don't care how much taxpayer money they spent on it, its that beautiful. Then I came home. Haven't touched the car in 3 days.

Sign of the times: The speed traps have changed. Instead of random squad cars hiding and waiting for speeders, they have one squad car hidden. The policeman takes radar checks of the cars, and for the next 5 miles you will see 4-5 cars which have been pulled over by squads. I suppose it's chance if you get caught... the squads probably have a constant reading of speeders, and randomly grab one when they get through with the person they've ticketed. The squad cars probably put on only about 20 miles in a shift.