Tour de France - stage 15 - Embrun Prato Nevoso 183 km Spoiler

gives it to frank. i don't think he minds.

roundabouts have historically been a problem. there are crashes every year at roundabouts, not only in the tdf, but in other races. they should route the riders around one side, but that would diminish the spectacle, especially for tv viewers who love the helicopter camera views of the riders splitting and rejoining.

you also halve the width of the road in most cases which isn't exactly safe.

What fantastic stage and a great ride by Kohl. They did what they needed to do to break Evans.

What a great tour!

Best stage so far.

It's going to come down to the final TT unless CSC or Cadel can turn it on on the Alpes.

you also halve the width of the road in most cases which isn't exactly safe.well, that is one full lane if it's a 2 lane road.. seems like it would work..

Great stage. Now there are 6 riders within 1 minute of the leader. And Kirchen did not lose a great deal of time. Valverde rode well; pity he could not manage that earlier.

Does anyone think Martinez messed that one up? I did not see all the climb because I was fumbling around for a new live feed.

That was one of the best stages I've ever seen!!! :D :D Great tour...Ricco who?

Fantastic stage.

pate really hung in there....i figured he'd be the first to drop

Great stage. Now there are 6 riders within 1 minute of the leader. And Kirchen did not lose a great deal of time. Valverde rode well; pity he could not manage that earlier.

Does anyone think Martinez messed that one up? I did not see all the climb because I was fumbling around for a new live feed.

Martinez had dropped Gerrans a couple of times. I think he felt that he had the better sprint and so just left it till the finish since he couldn't get rid of them.

Thought it was good to see Cadel having to put in a real effort. Agree with all the above - great finish.

Great work by Andy Schleck forcing the tempo and trying to put Cadel in a hurt box.

Those roundabouts are never usually a problem, there've already gone through 2-3 since the crash. There must have been oil or something on the road to see that many riders wheels just slip away from them.

What did Vaughters say about oil? "It's Italy, there's going to be oil"... I'm kinda paraphrasing there. lol

Great stage. I thought my DVR was going to cutoff the final minutes. Whew... had 2 minutes to spare...

Great stage! I was getting so sick of Cofidis.

Great stage. I thought my DVR was going to cutoff the final minutes. Whew... had 2 minutes to spare...

Ours shut off before the podium and results were announced, but at least we saw the finish.

Great racing, both within the breakaway, and among the GC contenders. Has there been a tour with so many so close this late?

This was such a great stage... made even better by Cadel losing the yellow shirt. :D

I'd love to see Frank Schleck win this tour.

pate is pretty good as a climber...too bad cadel lost the jersey though, but i like shleck. Yikes, though, that crash by Pereiro. There the rest of his season! there's always one team in every grand tour that just gets completely decimated by injuries and bad luck, and by the time they get to the finish, there's like two of them left.This year it seems to be Caisse Epargne-ever since the win by valverde and his high standing, they seem to have some kind of Spanish curse on them. There's another week though...

some real suffering going on today, and bad luck for menchov!

.

What a great stage! I just finished watching it off the DVR, as I was out doing a 60 mile bike ride this morning. The update on Peirero (did I get it right?) is that he has a broken shoulder but no broken leg, so that is a bit better. Still, it's sad to see him out of the Tour.

I think Menchov got a bit tailed off at the end there, probably from having to chase so hard after that freaky crash. He really looked to be the strongest to me today, gazing around at all the others and especially at Evans. Cadel looked bad for the last half of the climb. You just could sense he wasn't going to be able to cover all the breaks. I was amazed at how strong Kohl was...and now things are so tight that you can throw a blanket over the top 6 guys.

An awesome Tour so far!! Now you have to wonder if Evans is going to be in trouble on Tuesday and/or Wednesday. My money is still on Menchov.

i think in thee next 2 stages we will see the times spread out more. I think the little guy Sastre will take min 2 minutes in the next couple stages and will have yellow on stage 17. As the road gets steeper it favors him. Schleck will lose the jersey on TUesday. Kohl will have a bad day and VDV has a real chance at podium. I think a Pure Climber will win this. Not by much. seconds. .. I would love to see Valverde (Piti) show up again.

Great stage. I thought my DVR was going to cutoff the final minutes. Whew... had 2 minutes to spare...
Yeah, whew !!! Saw the finish, but really close !! What a great Tour this year. The best is yet to come !!

What a great stage! I just finished watching it off the DVR, as I was out doing a 60 mile bike ride this morning. The update on Peirero (did I get it right?) is that he has a broken shoulder but no broken leg, so that is a bit better. Still, it's sad to see him out of the Tour.

I think Menchov got a bit tailed off at the end there, probably from having to chase so hard after that freaky crash. He really looked to be the strongest to me today, gazing around at all the others and especially at Evans. Cadel looked bad for the last half of the climb. You just could sense he wasn't going to be able to cover all the breaks. I was amazed at how strong Kohl was...and now things are so tight that you can throw a blanket over the top 6 guys.

An awesome Tour so far!! Now you have to wonder if Evans is going to be in trouble on Tuesday and/or Wednesday. My money is still on Menchov.

OK, you're staying after school young lady...Pereiro:thumb:

Cadel got worked over today and they will need to do it again on Tuesday and hit him early on that last climb, Sastre, Kohl & Schlek will need 2 mins on Evans.

Did you see your man Voigt dragging the bunch along and he kept going on the lower slopes of the last climb. I think he's the one who popped popovych. Great stuff.

Popo dosen't seem to have the mojo jojo this past few days...and to think Ligget was saying he is coming to form...then again the mighty CSC-Saxo is strutting their stuff :-)

OK, you're staying after school young lady...Pereiro:thumb:

Cadel got worked over today and they will need to do it again on Tuesday and hit him early on that last climb, Sastre, Kohl & Schlek will need 2 mins on Evans.

Did you see your man Voigt dragging the bunch along and he kept going on the lower slopes of the last climb. I think he's the one who popped popovych. Great stuff.

Voigt even looks stronger than Cunego which is really surprising. I half-figured that just being in Italy would be enough to rally Damiano and get him to play in front of the home crowd, but he is proving to be a major disappointment. This whole thing is going to come down to 3 issues:

1. How much time can Sastre and Frank Schleck get on Evans, Menchov, Vandevelde so that they stand a chance in the time trial?

2. How much time do Menchov and Vandevelde need on Evans so that they can hold him off in the time trial?

3. Will Kohl crack and how much of a wild card is he?

Of course a lot of these questions might be moot if Evans cracks on Tues/Weds and loses 5-10 minutes to the rest. After seeing his vulnerability today, I'm thinking that's not out of the question. This may come down to a battle between Vandevelde and Menchov, both of them chasing down Sastre in the TT.

I'm so excited I can barely spell "Pereiro!" :D

And I'll excuse you for calling me "young" lady...but I'll wallow in the compliment for a few more hours. :lol:

Cadel is toast. I don't know what it is with him, reminds me of Levi. I never see the guy attack, just sits in the pack. If he wants to win, he is going to have attack, attack and attack.

He can't though. I have been saying that all along. They guy just doesn't have that little bit extra.

I think I am pulling for Sastre now. I like him.

You've got 5 people under 1 minute, but pulling for Vande Velde or Denis Menchov. Vande Velde still has a shot, but obviously took a hit after hitting the ground today.

There have to be a bunch of very sore riders tonight - other than one sprint stage pileup a few years ago within the last 300 meters, today's stage had more riders hitting the pavement than any single stage I've watched in the past 8-10 years (those roundabouts are dangerous!).

Yea, I agree. Lots of accidents and that one yesterday was nasty.

man o man. i got to get my DVR replaced. see, it broke. so, i had to watch the primetime coverage in real time. wow, that sucked. great stage though, what they showed. later.

He can't though. I have been saying that all along. They guy just doesn't have that little bit extra.

I think I am pulling for Sastre now. I like him.

you obviously have not seen him race this year. he has been attacking all season long. Also take into consideration he is up there with pure climbers (which he is not) his best bet is to limit his losses, mark the right guys and to stop the bleeding. Why put him self into a position where he is at his limit only to have one of the pure climbers attack? I think he is playing it smart. Smart is not always fun to watch.

smart = Evans

not so smart = Ricco

Also letting the jersey go may be best when his team is so weak. Popo is absolute rubbish this year I have a feeling McEwen will not win the Alp D Huez this year.

I wlll stick by Sastre for the Yellow after stage 17 and Mechov/Evans /Vandevelde trying to catch him in the TT. it will be down to the wire.

Amazing riding by Andy today. I hope he gets his shot at a stage win this tour.

Do not write Evans off, he's riding strong considering he was attacked several times before he finally cracked. Sastre, Kohl & Schleck will need at least 2 mins on Evans to keep him at bay in the TT. Menchov & VDV may also need a little advantage.

Now Evans doesn't have the jersey the pendulum swings the other way. Kohl & Schleck will be watching each other on Tuesday.

I still can't see Sastre winning the tour. At this stage I would say Evans or Menchov.

evans was well tested in the last 2 km, and he didn't go completely out the back door.

CSC are pretty damn strong though, and it will be interesting to see the personla ambitions of their top guys trying to sit with the team orders...

as for all those folks out there complaining about Evans being a wheel sucker: what do you guys have to say about Pate in that long four man breakaway? i did NOT ONCE see him at the head of the bunch, and he pointedly sat right at the back, even going out of the line to sit behind the lead guy each time he rolled back, forcing him back into the third spot of four. now that was a supreme example of wheelsucking: percent time at front: zero. and he got a mighty third for his 'savings'! well done that man, give him a great big sucker.

evans was well tested in the last 2 km, and he didn't go completely out the back door.

CSC are pretty damn strong though, and it will be interesting to see the personla ambitions of their top guys trying to sit with the team orders...

as for all those folks out there complaining about Evans being a wheel sucker: what do you guys have to say about Pate in that long four man breakaway? i did NOT ONCE see him at the head of the bunch, and he pointedly sat right at the back, even going out of the line to sit behind the lead guy each time he rolled back, forcing him back into the third spot of four. now that was a supreme example of wheelsucking: percent time at front: zero. and he got a mighty third for his 'savings'! well done that man, give him a great big sucker.

Up until the final climb, Pate stayed to the back. On the final climb, he took his share at the front, and Garrens looked to be the fellow at the back struggling to stay on.

Up until the final climb, Pate stayed to the back. On the final climb, he took his share at the front, and Garrens looked to be the fellow at the back struggling to stay on.
Pate attacking on the climb itself doesn't really count: he hid at the back while he should have been sharing the load breaking wind in the fast stuff, before the climb. the benefits of wheelsucking are far greater at high speed than they are when you're climbing steep stuff, as i'm sure you know. gerrans did about 40% of the leading in a group of four... and gerrans may well have been struggling after that effort, and he certainly was gapped a few times as the climb started to bite, but he still won.

and I am sorry to hear about hunter shunting pereiro into the barriers on the descent. i wasn't watching it yet at that point, so i missed it. i hope pereiro mends OK.

Great stage for sure. With soooooooooooo many with a ligit shot at yellow at the end of the race, it's going to be really fun to watch ...... especially on Wednesday. :thumb:

... Brad

Pate attacking on the climb itself doesn't really count: he hid at the back while he should have been sharing the load breaking wind in the fast stuff, before the climb. the benefits of wheelsucking are far greater at high speed than they are when you're climbing steep stuff, as i'm sure you know. gerrans did about 40% of the leading in a group of four... and gerrans may well have been struggling after that effort, and he certainly was gapped a few times as the climb started to bite, but he still won.

and I am sorry to hear about hunter shunting pereiro into the barriers on the descent. i wasn't watching it yet at that point, so i missed it. i hope pereiro mends OK.

Problem with your criticism is that Pate wasn't up the road to try to snag a stage win. He was up the road to provide support to Christian - conserving energy in the process. To the surprise of many, the leaders never caught up with the break on the final climb. He would not have been taking any turns on the front until it became clear to the DS that they were not going to get caught - which would have been about the time we saw him starting to take turns.

If he hadn't been up the road for that other purpose, I'd share your sentiments. As it is, it's apparently good karma that he didn't beat out the other two for the stage victory.

Problem with your criticism is that Pate wasn't up the road to try to snag a stage win. He was up the road to provide support to Christian - conserving energy in the process.

Ding ding ... we have a winner! :)

Pate was in the perfect position of not having to work for the group. He just didn't have the kick to win the stage.

... Brad

2. How much time do Menchov and Vandevelde need on Evans so that they can hold him off in the time trial?

3. Will Kohl crack and how much of a wild card is he?



I think vandevelde is strong enough a rider to hold off evans hes very good at TT he was only 10 secs behind evans and apparently he wasnt having a great day. I really think candevelde can win it if he has it in him to attack

Kohl stinks at TT he was 1'47 away from schumarer at the first TT so on a longer one i dont think he has what it takes to post a very good time in a 50km time trial so i really do not think he can win. Climbers jersey yeah sure but not yellow. And is it just me or does kohl look like a bulldog when he climbs mountains lol...?:D:D

evans was well tested in the last 2 km, and he didn't go completely out the back door.

CSC are pretty damn strong though, and it will be interesting to see the personla ambitions of their top guys trying to sit with the team orders...

as for all those folks out there complaining about Evans being a wheel sucker: what do you guys have to say about Pate in that long four man breakaway? i did NOT ONCE see him at the head of the bunch, and he pointedly sat right at the back, even going out of the line to sit behind the lead guy each time he rolled back, forcing him back into the third spot of four. now that was a supreme example of wheelsucking: percent time at front: zero. and he got a mighty third for his 'savings'! well done that man, give him a great big sucker.

Those guys he was riding with were better climbers than he was. And stronger. He even admitted that he almost got dropped on the first climb without doing anywork. He was just hanging on. Did you actually ride a bicycle? Have you ever climbed with stronger riders just trying to hang on to the back? Sometimes all you can do is hang on. That's what Gerrans was doing the same on the final climb until right at the end, but he won so good riding. Martinez was the strongest of all the four, but lost because thats racing. Further, Pate did equal work on the flats. You can go back to snuggling with your Cadel Evans doll now.

you obviously have not seen him race this year. he has been attacking all season long. Also take into consideration he is up there with pure climbers (which he is not) his best bet is to limit his losses, mark the right guys and to stop the bleeding. Why put him self into a position where he is at his limit only to have one of the pure climbers attack? I think he is playing it smart. Smart is not always fun to watch.



Please define "pure climber". I doubt you would classify Valverde, Schleck(s), Kohl, Sastre, Menchov, Vande Velde, Samuel Sanchez, as pure climbers. Stop making excuses for Cadel. The only "pure climber"
in the bunch would probably be Roman Kreuziger. A "pure climber" I would think is someone like Gilberto
Simoni, Pantani, Heras, Mayo, Contador. Unless your definition is drastically different than the one that
I'm familiar with, there aren't any "pure climbers" left to put Evans into difficulty or at least any that are were a threat to the gc.

In his defense you can't attack if you're hanging on by a thread or at your max as he seemed to be during much of that final ascent. To his credit he chose who's attacks were worth countering but in the end with
Sastre, Mechov, Kohl and Schleck up the road he had no choice but to get on the front and work to minimize the time lost. He couldn't wait for wheels to follow although Samuel Sanchez did try an attack or attempted to bridge up that resulted in Evans following him into the finish.

Well, we may be splitting hairs and semantics, but of the group you've mentioned, Sastre, Frank Schleck, and Kohl, IMO, are "pure climbers" (b/c they don't TT very welll, so their GC hopes rest totally on the mountain stages).

In the first TT:

Evans 4th
Menchov 6th
Vandevelde 8th
Sanchez 21st
Valverde 23rd
Sastre 28th
Kohl 31st
Kreuziger 34th
F Schleck 46th

Sastre, Kohl, and to some extent the Schlecks (especially Frank) are here primarily because of their ascending abilities.


EDIT: nevermind, Allen H beat me to it.

Menchov slips on the corner after attacking the gc group.

It looked to me as if he slipped on graffiti! Some fan used a grease pencil instead of chalk? :)

evans is right where he needs (and wants) to be. over a long TT like the final one in this years TdF, he's several minutes better than anyone in the top 6, except maybe VdV and Menchov, neither of whom are likely to take big chunks of time out of evans over the next 2 days. even though not by minutes, evans is a better longer end of stage race TTer than either VdV and menchov, at least his resume says so.

of the contenders, only CSC has the team to shake things up. with pereiro gone, caisse doesnt have the legs to make things exciting. expect more of the prato nevoso stage in the upcoming days. breakaway of non-gc contenders with some team mates of contenders mixed in, csc excluded. although the squirrelly descending abilities of evans and the schleck boys (relatively speaking, compared to other pro. cyclists who specialize in stage racing) might get them into trouble tomorrow. I would definitely not want to be anywhere near evans or schleck on those descents.

if he stays upright, aside from something very unexpected, it's going to be very difficult for evans to not win the TdF.

By reputation, I thought Evans was a fairly competent descender, though he's no Falco Salvodelli. I seem to remember him being much better than Chicken last year. Am I wrong?

The Schlecks... well, yeah. (http://youtube.com/watch?v=t1-WSpiTFR0)

Who out of the top 6 could possibly gain some time on tomorrow's descent?

Problem with your criticism is that Pate wasn't up the road to try to snag a stage win. He was up the road to provide support to Christian - conserving energy in the process. To the surprise of many, the leaders never caught up with the break on the final climb. He would not have been taking any turns on the front until it became clear to the DS that they were not going to get caught - which would have been about the time we saw him starting to take turns.




Exactly! And on the flatter section between the final climbs, when they were timing everyone to see who was pulling their share, Pate was doing 23% of the work load in a 4-man break.

Who out of the top 6 could possibly gain some time on tomorrow's descent?


The guy with the largest cojones? :D