Road Cycling - Non-anodized rims

Does anyone have any recommendations for a high end non anodized, non machined rim? I believe I will go with the Torelli Master if that's all there is out there in the land of gimmicky rims.

Why should I want such an archaic rim that is neither anodized nor machined? Here is why:

Anodized rims are actually weaker than their non-anodized counterparts. When rims are anodized, a thin layer of porus ceramic is the result. The problem is that cermaic material is exteremly brittle. A brittle surface in an area that demands resiliency is just asking for trouble.

For those who have had their rims for a good amount of time, take a look at the eyelets in your rims. Do you see any cracking near the eyelet? It's a problem that is more common than you think.

Machining along the rim surface also has its fair share of problems. The problem with machining an unevenly extruded wheel is that the wheel will come with off the line with high spots and low spots. To get a nice, level surface, some material will have to come off from the wheel by machining. The problem here lies when one machines down the rim, the low part of the rim is also machined. The end result is some very thin walls on rims that are carrying your life.

Why did machined rims come about? Basically as a way to prevent brake squeal on new bicycles.

What's the point of all these new "features." The fact is we spend more money today on rims that are less durable than those of the past. Unfortunately, it looks like marketing has once again won again in the world of cycling.

Don't believe me? Read some of Jobst Brandt's posts on rec.bicycle.tech. Why should you believe Brandt? Well he only wrote the definitive book on wheelbuilding (The Bicycle Wheel).

I generally believe Brandt as long as he is talking about bicycle wheels... Yes, he is quite an expert in that field.

But I do stress that one needs to take him with a huge grain of salt the instant that he talks about or tries to make comparisons with anything else that is not a bicycle wheel. I base this upon what I've read in rec.bicycle.tech.

He wrote some things that would get an otherwise uninformed motorcyclist injured if one were to blindly take all he says as gospel. It was clearly obvious (to me) that his conclusions in this area was a total buy-in of motorcycle tire manufacturer's marketing... Quite ironic, actually, since that's a condition that he commonly and caustically rails against.

But bicycle wheels? Yeah, he da' man...

And rim treatments? Correct again... Except that an anodized surface isn't actually ceramic; it's ceramic-like. Aluminum oxide to be more correct... And super hard and brittle!

Rims lacking this treatment? You got me stumped. I ride Open-Pros. But a polished, "plain" rim sure would look sexy!

-Erik

I generally believe Brandt as long as he is talking about bicycle wheels... Yes, he is quite an expert in that field.

But I do stress that one needs to take him with a huge grain of salt the instant that he talks about or tries to make comparisons with anything else that is not a bicycle wheel. I base this upon what I've read in rec.bicycle.tech.

He wrote some things that would get an otherwise uninformed motorcyclist injured if one were to blindly take all he says as gospel. It was clearly obvious (to me) that his conclusions in this area was a total buy-in of motorcycle tire manufacturer's marketing... Quite ironic, actually, since that's a condition that he commonly and caustically rails against.

But bicycle wheels? Yeah, he da' man...

And rim treatments? Correct again... Except that an anodized surface isn't actually ceramic; it's ceramic-like. Aluminum oxide to be more correct... And super hard and brittle!

Rims lacking this treatment? You got me stumped. I ride Open-Pros. But a polished, "plain" rim sure would look sexy!

-Erik

I also don't buy the arguement that machined rims are necessarily weaker. The raw extrusion should have more wall thickness, and proper quality control should reject any out of tolerance rims prior to machining, as well as checking to ensure that there is sufficient wall thickness on finished rims. Mavic isn't going to allow failures the first time a tire is inflated to the rim limits.

Plain aluminum does seem to be making a comeback from the 70's...I've got them on my old 1975 Gran Sport. But to look good, I seem to recall they do need a light polishing pretty often!

Why should I want such an archaic rim that is neither anodized nor machined? Here is why:

Anodized rims are actually weaker than their non-anodized counterparts. When rims are anodized, a thin layer of porus ceramic is the result. The problem is that cermaic material is exteremly brittle. A brittle surface in an area that demands resiliency is just asking for trouble.

For those who have had their rims for a good amount of time, take a look at the eyelets in your rims. Do you see any cracking near the eyelet? It's a problem that is more common than you think.

Machining along the rim surface also has its fair share of problems. The problem with machining an unevenly extruded wheel is that the wheel will come with off the line with high spots and low spots. To get a nice, level surface, some material will have to come off from the wheel by machining. The problem here lies when one machines down the rim, the low part of the rim is also machined. The end result is some very thin walls on rims that are carrying your life.

Sometimes it's possible to overthink things and follow the wrong piper. NONE of my anodized rims suffer any of these ALLEGED problems after long term use.

I can't wait to build my Mavic MA-2's....still brand new in its original cello wrapper. Yep, these polished rims are so sexy. Just waiting for the right track hubs to pop up on Ebay......like vintage Campy....

George

George,
check these 2 auctions. I really like the first set of hubs. Its not
in cycling products but in collectables/transportation.

http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=3653074954&category=56197

http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=3653624512&category=36144

Marty

Thanks, Marty......that 36 hole Campy set looks good. I somehow missed it last night...

George

I can't wait to build my Mavic MA-2's....still brand new in its original cello wrapper.

I would love to find a source for MA-2s if it is still possible. Unfortunately, I think that Jobst has hoarded the world's last supply of those rims.

Check with Baron at Renassaince cycles he often
has hard to find stuff. His latest stash includes real
honest to god Mavic SSC tubular rims, NOS.
He did have some MA2's last time I checked.

Marty

Sometimes it's possible to overthink things and follow the wrong piper. NONE of my anodized rims suffer any of these ALLEGED problems after long term use.

I agree... The Open Pros are much more proven as a rim than I am proven as rider, which is why I commented that I ride them. No problems in the last 6 years... (6 years being the scope of my personal experience).

Technically speaking? Anodization is bad.
Practically speaking? Screw it. Go ride.

-Erik

Ok stupid question.
Are all colored rims (rims of color) anodized? or
Are all silver rims NOT anodized?

Just curious because I have several sets of wheels, some colored and some not, and I haven't ever thought about it.

Are all colored rims (rims of color) anodized?

Yes. Well, maybe; they could be painted... If the color is a metallic, translucent color, then yes, very likely.


Are all silver rims NOT anodized?

No. A silver rim could be anodized. It would have a "milky" or even a dull silver appearance. Anodized aluminum also doesn't polish-up the same as plain aluminum. Plain aluminum can be polished to the point of looking nearly like chrome plating.

Plain aluminum can be polished to the point of looking nearly like chrome plating.Yeah, but it won't stay that way unless protected with something.