Touring - Buying a good tourer

Hi all.
I'm about to buy my first tourer.
I want to buy a good bike,which will serve me faithfully for years to come.I intend to do some serious tourings so reliability is most important.
I almost purchased the Trek520 like most of you (am I right?)
but then I decided to give it some more thoughts.
After reading lost of bike reviews about the common tourers :Trek520, Jamis aurora, Fuji touring,Cannondale touring and Bruce gordon, this is what I came up with :

1.All frames&forks are fine and will take me comfortably and confidencely anywhere.
2.The Trek520 frame is the thickest and heaviest of them.
3.All bikes require changing the original gearset.
4.All bikes except the BG rock&road(2500$) compromise on cheaper parts to make the bike's price more attractive.

I thought about choosing the components by myself and here is my idea :
Frame : since I'm not such a big guy (5"11,170lbs) I figured that the heavy Trek520 frame is not compulsory for me and all the other lighter frames would be just fine.So either the Fuji or the Jamis (350$-600$).
Handlebar : ? 50$
Groupset: this is where I think that good parts will pay off on the long run, so rear set: shimano deore xt cassette(70$) and der.(70$)
Front : Truvativ crankset with 48-38-28t chainrings (180$) and
Ultegra der.(50$).
Wheelset: Mavic open pro rims,Ultegra hubs+Wheelsmith spokes (200$)
Tyres: Cont.top touring (70$)
Brakes: Avid Vbrakes. (64$)
Brake levers :Dia Compe 287 (80$)
Shifters: Dura Ace barend (70$)
Chain : whatever (30$)

Saddle+seatpost : ? 70$
Pedals : ? 50$

Total :1500$(All prices quoted from Yahoo shopping)

Just as good as the BG r&r but for much less
This could be a real beast for years of cycling and touring.

All comments are much appreciated

3.All bikes require changing the original gearset.

No - depends on your needs. The 520 has a nice Shimano 105 triple with 52/42/30. Match that up with an 11-32 (or 11-34) cassette and you have fairly low gear. If you think you might need a lower gear than a 30x34, then you might switch out the road triple for an MTB triple. My LBS switched it out for an LX triple at no charge at time of purchase.

4.All bikes except the BG rock&road(2500$) compromise on cheaper parts to make the bike's price more attractive.

Only one thing on the 520 that I can think of that is cheap - and that's the rear rack. I'd trade that out at time of purchase. The tires are OK but you might want to trade those out for Conti Top Touring. That saddle is a matter of preference.


I thought about choosing the components by myself and here is my idea :
Frame : since I'm not such a big guy (5"11,170lbs) I figured that the heavy Trek520 frame is not compulsory for me and all the other lighter frames would be just fine.

The frame isn't just to hold *you* up, but also to carry the load. If you are going to do serious touring, that means you'll be strapping on some bags and loading them up with food and camping gear. Don't discount the frame. Plus I'm not sure you can say the 520 is the heaviest anyway. I think Bruce Gordon states his bike is built more heavily, and indicates that Trek won't tell you what size of tubing they use on their bikes, IIRC.


Groupset: this is where I think that good parts will pay off on the long run, so rear set: shimano deore xt cassette(70$) and der.(70$)
Front : Truvativ crankset with 48-38-28t chainrings (180$) and
Ultegra der.(50$).

You've selected items that are about a step above what the 520 has. This may provide slightly better functionality, I don't know. The crankset you've selected only provides a slightly lower gear (28T vs 30T) than the one on the 520.

Wheelset: Mavic open pro rims,Ultegra hubs+Wheelsmith spokes (200$)
The open pro rim is listed as a racing/performance rim. Probably not the best for loaded touring. The bontrager rims on the 520 weigh 140 grams more per rim. Better for hauling loads. The LX hubs are MTB, and this *might* be better for loaded touring than and Ultegra, which is a road racing hub.

Tyres: Cont.top touring (70$)
I agree. I like these. Heavy, heavy tire, but tough.

Brakes: Avid Vbrakes. (64$)
Brake levers :Dia Compe 287 (80$)
Shifters: Dura Ace barend (70$)

This is what you get on the 520.

The only real improvement I see over the 520 is the derailers. I do understand the desirability of specifying the bike exactly the way you want, but you are going to spend about $500 more to get slightly better derailers and a slightly (maybe) lighter frame.

Also, unless you build this yourself it's going to cost some $$ to get someone to do it for you.

Either way, get what you like and enjoy it!

Another thing you might want to consider with a tourer is transportability. If you do a lot of touring that involves flying first then you might want to look into bikes that can be broken down into a piece of luggage that measures under 60 (or so) linear inches. That's typically the cutoff point before the airlines start charging you an extra $100. You can also have custom work done to an existing frame (depending on the frame material) and have S+S connectors installed.

Brad, thanks for your remarks , the wheels I suggested are apparently not strong enough for loaded touring.
How about the Mavic cosmic rims ?
The things that hold me back from buying the Trek520 apart from the heavy frame and the chainset
is the wheelset and the saddle.I read a few
reviews that said that the stock wheels tend to bend,
and the seat is really uncomfortable.
Also the stock tires which are 35c seem clumsy for sealed roads.Can you approve this ?

(I might buy the Trek after all....who knows)

I've seen a couple reports of the Bontrager rims developing cracks, but I don't know how recent the reports are, if the rims were overly abused, etc. I've put 900 miles on my bike with no problems at all. I did a single-day 100-miler with about 30lbs of baggage, and a few 50-65 milers as well. I've smacked into some rocks on the road and into some small ditches with no problems.

Mavic makes a touring rim, the T520, that weighs 565 grams, or the same as the Bontrager. I don't know anything about the Cosmic, but the MA3 looks like a lighter touring rim at 478 grams.

I used the 35c Bontrager tires for a few hundred miles. One puncture in each tire. They were just fine on the pavement, blacktop, and chipped limestone. I now have the Continental Top Touring in 700x32. Much heavier but seem tougher.

As far as the saddle is concerned, there is no guarantee that any saddle will be comfortable. If you already have one that works for you, keep it and have the shop keep the stock saddle. You should get a discount. I found a Trek "anatomic" saddle that works great *for me*, and used that instead of the stock saddle on the 520.

You seem to like the Bruce Gordon (except for the price!). Look at the components on his bikes to get some idea of what works. I just looked there and it appears he uses Sun CR-18 rims for his 700c wheels.

Well, that about exhausts my knowledge. Since I've yet to do an overnight tour, you should probably get advice from more experienced people.

Hi,
take a look at this.... http://www.rivendellbicycles.com/html/bikes_romulusframes.html
Rivendell takes an old fashioned approach to bike building. It's rugged enough for touring. Here is a thread by an owner...
http://www.bikeforums.net/showthread.php?t=40459&highlight=romulus

There was an earlier thread in this forum about the new Surly touring frame (the "Long Haul Trucker"). If it's anything like their CrossCheck frame, it'd be worth considering.

Another option you might consider is picking up a used tourer, especially if you've settled on a make, model, and size.

Have fun and good luck.

Trek has never-at least to my knowledge-released wall thickness stats on their tubing... at least on the 520 so I'm unclear what you're basing your statement on... and also, thick and/or heavy don't really amount to any real world ability to justify what goes into or makes up a great tourer.

Geometry is crucial, at least equal to tubing. Personally, out of your choices I would do this...

Buy the Trek 520.

Make a deal for the shop that you buy from to swap out the gearing to something more reasonable for touring. As has been stated in this thread... consider MTB gearing if you're going to carry some serious beef(22/32/44 or a tad above that).

Ditch the rear rack for something stronger-if you're on a tight dime go with Tubus.

Swap the 520's saddle for a Brooks saddle and...

Go Riding. :)

My wife has a trek 520. We've met folks who are doing around the world tours on 520's. They all changed their gears. Both my wife and I have mountain bike gear trains: 22/32/44 front and 11 to 34 rear (I have a rebuilt '84 Schwinn Voyager). We use XTR front deraileurs and LX rear. MY STI shifters/levers work fine with the XTR/LX. The dealer sold us the 520 (he had to order it) for $1100 and charged nothing for the changes. The crank is LX.

Additional changes to my wife's 520 included flat bars, LX ATB shifters and mountain bike brake levers. She doesn't like drop bars and would forget where the brakes were when she switched between her road bike and her MTB. No charge for these changes either. Saddles are good quality Salle italia. We paid for those. You can have Brooks Saddles. We hated ours back on our 1976 road bikes. There's so much better out there now.

I use that 22 front with the 34 rear a lot on steep hills. I like to spin at around 95 plus, so low gears is all I need or can use actually. The 44 front and 11 rear is fast enough.

Al

Mr Canoe-

ALL excellent advice. However, being a Brooks Man myself I can't agree there but who can? ...Saddles are such a personal thing anyway.

ronyex: I bought a 520 last year after doing a lot of looking and asking questions. I rode several different bikes but the 520 just "felt" the best. Put about 1000 miles on it last year. No problems with anything, including the tires and wheels. I had intended to swap the saddle with the one on my road bike but the stock saddle never gave me the problems I'd heard about on the forums. Did some commuting back and forth to work (56 miles round trip) with the stock gearing. I can see if I was going to do a long, hilly, fully loaded tour I might want to change the gearing slightly, but the bike seems to work fine for my needs just the way it came.

Just a short one
, ivebeen round Se Asia twice now by bike and ivemet a few people who have done some long long journeys by bike, ill check with them but i reckon they will be happy to offer a long journeymans two penneth. let me know if this will be of help to you.
Anyway several people told me that the mavic rims were fine up until about 6000kms then they cracked this is on normal conditions some tarmac sime dirt road, im not sure which model but it didnt sound to good i met people on expensive and cheap bikes so i reckon they would have had a selection of mavics.
On the spoke front DT swiss are excellent spokes so check them out as an option, they do a touring spoke. Also look at Koga Miyata bikes ive never heard a bad word about them but i reckon they are too expensive and am seeking advice from others. worth alook to see what they use though.

I have a 520, I've never used it for hauling any load other than my fat....well anyhow, 2500 mi. so far I like the bike alot the gearing is fine for my use, I even like the stock saddle. You may want to consider Mavic t520 rims on XT hubs, Sound bullet proof to me.

Just a short one
, ivebeen round Se Asia twice now by bike and ivemet a few people who have done some long long journeys by bike, ill check with them but i reckon they will be happy to offer a long journeymans two penneth. let me know if this will be of help to you.
Anyway several people told me that the mavic rims were fine up until about 6000kms then they cracked this is on normal conditions some tarmac sime dirt road, im not sure which model but it didnt sound to good i met people on expensive and cheap bikes so i reckon they would have had a selection of mavics.
On the spoke front DT swiss are excellent spokes so check them out as an option, they do a touring spoke. Also look at Koga Miyata bikes ive never heard a bad word about them but i reckon they are too expensive and am seeking advice from others. worth alook to see what they use though.

I rode 3 Koga's and frankly was unimpressed. First thing that peev'ed me was how silly it was for them to offer such great equipped bikes(lights, racks, dynamo's, pumps, etc as standard)BUT make their top of the line bikes available ONLY in aluminum frames!! That just makes NO sense to me... I can just see it-so I buy one, get to the rainforest in the Amazon and have an arm break on my lowrider or the boss for it... not only can I not get it fixed anywhere because my frame is aluminum BUT also because I need a specific Koga rack?!?! Boink :rolleyes: Not good thinking on their behalf. Of course, I probably can't get a steel framed bike fixed deep in the heart of the jungle but anyone, anywhere with a torch can fix steel-at least good enough to get me through to a shop.

The only steel framed bike Koga offers is their Randonneur model which is a 700c wheeled type so if you're wanting a 26 incher, like me, AND steel... Koga isn't the choice. I just don't like the idea of aluminum AND company-specific parts when touring.... too many variables for bad news for me.

The other thing that seems odd is this... cycle tourists for the most part are very independent folks so I am not so certain that a company putting together a bike that has all the bells and whistles already in place will find a lot of favor in the touring community when bike tourists really-for the most part-know how they want things to be set up on their mounts.

Seems like the Koga's are for folks with serious bread to spend who are new to touring or are doing light touring.

Well yeah the 520 wins here
Next Wed.I'll be at the bike shop.
I'll tell you as soon as I get back+photos.

Well yeah the 520 wins here
Next Wed.I'll be at the bike shop.
I'll tell you as soon as I get back+photos.

You have chosen well, Weedhopper.

:D

Bianchi Volpe is another alternative to the Trek 520.

I don't know about you, but I would rather get a used Trek 970/990 single speed Mountain Bike that were made of high quality True Temper OX 4130 tubing and upgrade the hell of out it. Maybe put drop bars on for the long hauls. It's a MTB so you have a very wide variety of tires to chose from. The wheelbase is long. The fork doesn't have the mounts for panniers, but I would use the bike bags that attach to the handlbars.

For sport touring older Kona MTB are excellent.

What exactly is the weight difference between the 520 and the other bikes? If you're intending on using the bike for loaded touring (and perhaps commuting) the weight difference is probably negligible. If it was ever a problem, you can just change gears.