Great Lakes - Detroit Bike License? Yep!

First off, if you are just going to bash the city of Detroit then piss off, go lock your suburban house door, and don't post here...otherwise read on...

Hey, in case you haven't heard the news...

http://www.detnews.com/apps/pbcs.dll/article?AID=/20080703/METRO/807030369/1409/METRO

That's right...Detroit is bringing back their old bike license law!

It is $1 for a five year license to register your bike, and a $55 citation if you ride in the city without one!

As a resident down here I have mixed feelings about this.

Under certain conditions, I'm for it. For instance, if the money raised or collected is going to be used to promote cycling in the city, give us some bike lanes, and maybe sweep the shoulders or future bike lanes of broken glass. Also, since it's a registration program, that gives you the idea that the DPD will actually pursue your stolen bike reports.

Being a cynic, this of course isn't going to happen.

So far the reaction has been pretty uproarious. I hope they shut this stupid idea down before it starts on August 7th. Anyone going to city council meetings should express their feelings on behalf of those of us who can never make them.

Oh and another wonderful aspect of this is that it applies to visitors of the city as well!

For one thing, I hate those geeky big stickers they have you put on your bike.
"This will assist with the identification of stolen bicycles"

Ya right... I am sure if your bike gets lifted and you call the Detroit PD, they'll be right on that!

The city just wants money... plain and simple.
The mayor needs more funding sources for his big parties and SUV expenses.

I can just picture driving through downtown Detroit and passing by a little girl on a bike with training wheels being pulled over by the cops to get a $55 ticket for not having her bike registered.

hipsters on fixies in hart plaza = easy money.

robb.

This is a joke! Like this will resolve anything. All I see it doing is keeping the few of us who like to ride in Detroit out of that city. As I understand it, they cannot even enforce the ticket if there are not signs posted when entering the city stating this law.

First off, if you are just going to bash the city of Detroit then piss off, go lock your suburban house door, and don't post here.

I feel the Detroit love coming through

At $1 for 5 years, it will cost more to collect the fee than the money it raises.

Which means that this is soley about extorting $55 out of poor people.

Bravo, Detroit.

As already noted, it's probably not enforceable, but that wouldn't stop the police from writing a ticket. It would be up to a judge to throw it out.

I have posted additional information on my web site: Detroit bike license (http://www.m-bike.org/blog/tags/bicycle-license)

We are looking at options for changing this city ordinance.

Yeah, I know a few of those fixters and they are easy money (even though they look poor and dirty).

I'm definitely with you guys. Living down here and reading that, it made me really want to move. What the hell kind of message is this sending anyway? It seems like the wrong kind so far.

Detroit love? No, I just didn't want anyone posting stupid "well why would I want to ride in that place anyway, bla bla bla *racism racism*, blaaaa".

Fishtoes I'll PM you.

Detroit love? No, I just didn't want anyone posting stupid "well why would I want to ride in that place anyway, bla bla bla *racism racism*, blaaaa".

.

Great Lakes forums has always been a nice friendly place, well until I read your first sentence. Your opening just kind of struck me as totally uncalled for. No biggie.

At $1 for 5 years, it will cost more to collect the fee than the money it raises.

Which means that this is soley about extorting $55 out of poor people.

Bravo, Detroit.
+1,000,000. As a former SE Michigander and the child of former Detroiters, this does not shock me.

How will they handle nonresidents? Just curious.....

I live in Indiana and it's conceivable I could go through the Detroit area on tour, for exampe (Not likely, though :p )

Great Lakes forums has always been a nice friendly place, well until I read your first sentence. Your opening just kind of struck me as totally uncalled for. No biggie.

Great Lakes has NOT always been friendly, especially to Detroit. Note the thread "Is Detroit the most cyclign-unfriendly place in the US?" and then notice most of the complaints are not about Detroit but about the suburbs of Detroit.

Granted, Great Lakers are friendly. But this topic was not. I don't blame Mal for trying to defuse that kind of talk. Living in SE Michigan you hear a lot of it. I was very disappointed when I saw it here.

Road Fan

How will they handle nonresidents? Just curious.....

I live in Indiana and it's conceivable I could go through the Detroit area on tour, for exampe (Not likely, though :p )

Presumable non-res are liable for that law. As a motorist, you'd be obligated for speed limits. OTOH, non-residents do not purchase such things as city automobile registrations.

But Tom, don't shun southeast Michigan (the "Detroit area"). Detroit has a boundary, and many of the surrounding subs are nice places. However, some are not.

I was born and raised in Detroit...

Mt. Elliot and Mound area... not sure what part that is considered...
But I will tell you one thing... I will never be caught dead riding my bike there.

I will never be caught dead riding my bike there. That's exactly it. I was trying to diffuse any of the commentary that is ALWAYS associated with Detroit whenever there is a discussion about it. My original post in fact is a mild-criticism, but it's not an over-arching Detroit bash like some comments I've read in Great-Lakes. This quote is a perfect example. How in any way does that post contribute the the discussion on the bike license?!

I agree there are places I will never ride my bike, in or out of the city. Oddly enough some of my most feared places are in the outer-ring suburbs like Utica where the speed-limits are high, and the cars are large, and the people are angry.

How many of us on that topic about Detroit being the most unfriendly place to cycle actually posted saying "Detroit proper isn't a problem to ride in" because so many people were saying "oh god you ride in the city?! With all of the 'city-folk'!?!?"

Great-lakers are friendly in a sense to each other, but I hear a lot of garbage in the suburbs about Detroit. I was trying to head some of that off at the pass with the disclaimer at the top. Some of the reactions I get from "great-lakers" when I tell them I live "downtown" (which I technically don't, I live in Tech Town but it's the easiest for some people to understand). They think I'm talking about Royal Oak or Ferndale.

I just wanted to gauge opinions on the bike license and let people know.

This quote is a perfect example. How in any way does that post contribute the the discussion on the bike license?!
Since I will never be caught dead riding in Detroit ever again...
I don't need a bike license I guess..

How's that?

Mt. Elliot and Mound area... not sure what part that is considered...
But I will tell you one thing... I will never be caught dead riding my bike there.
Good. Then you won't need a license.

I rode that area this weekend with a friend from out of town. The most memorable moments was being cheered on by a family party; then meeting and riding with Aaron and Rakim, two neighborhood kids, on the Dorais Velodrome. I told Aaron and Rakim about the track, how Frankie Andreu learned how to race there then went on to the Olympics and Tour de France.

How's that? How's that your original post had nothing to do with the bike license discussion? Because it was a blatant, unrelated, and unwarranted bash on the city. Nowhere in the post did you even mention the license, you just felt that it was your suburban duty to verbally crap on the city since the opportunity had presented itself.

I mean, why bother? It's really not helping...

Good. Then you won't need a license.

I rode that area this weekend with a friend from out of town. The most memorable moments was being cheered on by a family party; then meeting and riding with Aaron and Rakim, two neighborhood kids, on the Dorais Velodrome. I told Aaron and Rakim about the track, how Frankie Andreu learned how to race there then went on to the Olympics and Tour de France.

Nah, I don't think Frankie ever rode there it was already in dis-repair by the time Frankie was 10 he might have when he was younger than that.

I love riding in the city hardly any traffic, and the people are friendly.


The government in Detroit is a totally different matter, look at all of the City Council members and the mayor they never rode on a bicycle one minute in thier lives, the lightest member of the bunch is probably around 250. And the short-sightedness of the City is hilarious. Try getting a city contract with the city
In no uncertain terms they will try to tell you who to hire, and there will actually be a list of family members that need employment if you want a contract. (even if those people don't have the proper credentials or licenses to get a job with you.)

I'll agree with that Ilh8 for sure. Politics in this city are ridiculous. That's why this bike license thing infuriates me so much because I know the money is going to be used for anything beneficial to cyclists.

I wish I could take the council on my road ride to belle isle and watch them bunny hop the broken bottles and crap in the bike lanes on 700c wheels. Can you say taco tire?

On the Frankie note...nice guy. Met him at the Arctic Alley Cat we had down here. He really wasn't pushing it. For one thing I know this because my team placed, but it was fun to say "I beat a pro cyclist!" =p

yeah thinly vailed racism is always going to come up when talking about Detroit.

I got the chance to ride in the city over the long weekend and found it to be one of the most pleasurable experiences i have had riding in a long time. The Dorais Park Velodrome was one of the most surreal things i have ever seen.

anyway, I'm curious if this will get enforced and what they will do about out of towners.

*deleted* I was just asking for more info on Dorais Park but not a big deal.

it is located at mound and outer drive

http://maps.google.com/maps?f=q&hl=en&geocode=&q=mound+and+outer+detroit&sll=37.0625,-95.677068&sspn=61.153041,108.984375&ie=UTF8&ll=42.44176,-83.045713&spn=0.00177,0.003326&t=h&z=18

You can ride it. Its not in the best shape but it can be done. I saw some pictures a while back i will have to go find them.

not my flicker but here they are

http://www.flickr.com/photos/11570598@N06/sets/72157601555269081/

How's that? How's that your original post had nothing to do with the bike license discussion? Because it was a blatant, unrelated, and unwarranted bash on the city. Nowhere in the post did you even mention the license, you just felt that it was your suburban duty to verbally crap on the city since the opportunity had presented itself.

I mean, why bother? It's really not helping...
You're right... I apologize.
I let my emotions get the best of me and took it out on your thread.
Please forgive me.

I haven't even been to that part of the city in 25+ years.
So I am sure it's not even the same neighborhood I even grew up in.

Nah, I don't think Frankie ever rode there it was already in dis-repair by the time Frankie was 10 he might have when he was younger than that.
I definitely could be wrong about that. I'm not sure where I had heard it. Dorais was apparently used until the late-80's though I'm not sure if that included racing.

You do not need a Detroit bicycle license to ride Dorais since it's not a street, highway or sidewalk. :thumb:

Un-enforcebale.
Left Detroit in 1952 . . . don't miss it a bit.

If they didn't enforce the license back then why are they trying to now?

One of the stories in the paper said that there is a state ordinance that allows cities to require bicycle registration. However, the next section says that any such registration requirement must be made known by posting it on signs on all major roads leading into said city. This makes a lot of sense, since how else would someone not from the city know about the licensing requirement? Since there's no way Detroit can pay for or deploy such signage, this ordinance is probably unenforceable.

The ironic thing is that we saw the article about this in the paper on the very day that my wife and I were loading up our bikes to go down and check out the new Riverwalk. We were very impressed by what we saw down there. There was a free parking area for Riverwalk users right off Atwater, and we then rode down to The Joe and back and east to Mt. Eliot park where we stopped for a snack. It was perfect weather, and with the blue water of the river sliding by, Detroit looked better than I've ever seen it.

The section from Mt. Eliot to Belle Isle is not complete yet (thru the old Uniroyal land), and the detour to get there is not very good, so we loaded the bikes back up and drove to Belle Isle to take a lap. That was also nice, but too many of the historic and artistic old structures on the island are in need of TLC. Hopefully they can set up a "conservancy" to raise money the same way the the Riverwalk is being maintained.

Another future attraction that we'll go back for is when they open up the Dequindre Cut that will let you go from the Riverwalk up to Eastern Market on an old below-grade railbed. I think this is opening in August.

The fine I am against. That is ridiciliously steep. I am not necessarily against the licensing fee. I'd just like to know how the funds a spent. The Freep posted not long ago, that metro Detroit is making real progress with the construction of bike paths. Example. A ride along the river front. What a waste. It could be spectular./ Thanks for telling Detroit bashers to pss off. This family is a bunch of Detroit boosters.

[DougG, One alternative route from Mt. Elliot to Belle Isle is to take Mt. Elliot to Lafayette to Grand Boulevard. It has less traffic than Jefferson. There is a Friends of Belle Isle group and they are making progress, especially given the recent financial support from the Grand Prix. But you're right. There's a lot of work to do.]

According to one attorney, state law makes it unfeasible to enforce bicycle registrations. Still, that wouldn't stop police from writing tickets, though it should discourage it.

I definitely could be wrong about that. I'm not sure where I had heard it. Dorais was apparently used until the late-80's though I'm not sure if that included racing.

You do not need a Detroit bicycle license to ride Dorais since it's not a street, highway or sidewalk. :thumb:

Nope you were right, he did start at Dorais, WOW when I first saw Dorais in 1982 the track was already in dis-repair, just goes to show how dedicated the trackies wee in the detroit area to use that thing.

I haven't even been to that part of the city in 25+ years.
So I am sure it's not even the same neighborhood I even grew up in.

i don't mean to pick on you, pedalingfool, so please don't take this as criticism of your comments -- they are similar to what i have heard from many of my coworkers who grew up in the suburbs in the 80s. i have talked to a lot of people who say, "never go to detroit! it's awful!" when i ask when the last time they were actually in the city, the response is invariably, "i haven't been in the city for anything but a tigers game in 20 years! it's terrible down there!"

what they fail to see, though, is that detroit is a great place and that much of the city is very safe. in fact, the crime rate in the central business district is drastically lower than the national average. there are some very bad neighborhoods in detroit, but there are also very bad neighborhoods in grand rapids.

so while i, myself, do not live in the city, i appreciate it for all that it is and all that it provides for my life in royal oak. perhaps the fact that i grew up in grand rapids explains why i do not have such a prejudice against the city. but it is frustrating to hear what many suburbanites say about the city. and it is frustrating to hear people from the city act like they are hipper, better human beings because they live in the city.

robb.

not my flicker but here they are

http://www.flickr.com/photos/11570598@N06/sets/72157601555269081/

Great photo's, especially the side by side shot.

Ya know mixing cement and some home depot paint and that could be a cool project making that track come alive again.. I'm really curious, when and why was it built?

The Tour de Troit is going to be a field day I guess...

Robb- your comments are spot on.

Volley- I am genuinely interested to see what the heck happens at large organized rides like this. I mean the Tour has police escorts too!

I'm telling you all, if we can organize and stage a bike protest in front of City Hall and explain how dumb this law is, I think we might have a fair shot.

Even if it's unenforceable it will cost you money to go to court to get the stupid ticket thrown out. Anyone who has been to city courts know that it's a circus and it destroys your morning.

What if 1,000 cyclists show up at the same time to license their bike?
That would be alot of paperwork and time consumption for the city employees.

I am expecting this issue will be resolved prior to the Tour de Troit. That's not just speculation, but based on various efforts currently underway to make this right.

A group of us spoke before the Detroit Police Commission meeting today. We also spoke at length with the Chief. She is going to put out a notice about not enforcing the license issue. (Still believe it is ultimately up to the officer as to whether they write the ticket.) We are going to work with her on a number of issues to make sure we're promoting cycling within Detroit.

Here's a little additional bike license information (http://www.m-bike.org/blog/2008/07/17/police-chief-clairifies-detroit-bike-licensing)

We are working to change the city ordinance as well.

Did anyone catch the news yesterday on channel 2?
This lady took her all the bikes of her whole family to get them registered and they didn't even have any registrations so she couldn't get them registered...

Now she says shes afraid to let her kids ride their bikes around because she can't afford multiple $55 fines...

I'm not really all that worried about registering my bike--however I will probably eventually get around to it. I enjoyed riding my bike in Detroit today--it was the furthest I rode my bike in Detroit and I live in Riverview. However, if I was without a license and a cop was going to write me a ticket, I would probably ride off. I could go places that the cop couldn't in a car and they wouldn't be able to keep up with me on foot.

I'm not really all that worried about registering my bike--however I will probably eventually get around to it. I enjoyed riding my bike in Detroit today--it was the furthest I rode my bike in Detroit and I live in Riverview. However, if I was without a license and a cop was going to write me a ticket, I would probably ride off. I could go places that the cop couldn't in a car and they wouldn't be able to keep up with me on foot.
LOL!
Kind of makes me wonder if they would even bother trying to catch you?

Yeah, according to Fishtoes, they Chief of Police told her officers to not even bother. Initiating a chase for police is actually a pretty tricky thing for them. They have to judge if it's more dangerous/worth it to endanger bystanders and such.

I constantly read stories about people on crotch rockets doing over 100 right past a cop and they don't initiate because it's just too fast for them to catch up and such. I wonder if they print that to embolden and trap riders!

What if 1,000 cyclists show up at the same time to license their bike?

I'd predict that, at the end of the day, 990 of them would still be standing in line. :roflmao2:

It would be like living in Eastern Europe back in the day!

Interesting, I didn't know there was another velodrome there and don't think it's mentioned in a track book I have at home. I'll have to remember to check next time I have the book out. I knew about the track up north of the city.

As to the licensing, how can they apply it to out of area people? I get over to Dearborn and Southfield sometimes, and have thought about bringing a bike with me during the longer trips. I guess this licensing legislation would basically keep me out of the city if the license was one of those sticker type tags. Might be neat if it was one of those tin license plates to hang off of your seat, as a curio item to hang on the wall at home, but not if it's a sticker to plaster onto the bike.

Over here in Wisconsin the city of Milwaukee is talking about a special fee for vehicles kept in the city, that idea is not going over too well. I imagine the bicycle licensing there is causing a similar commotion. And, yep, I suspect it is simply a revenue generator. $1 for 5 years but a $55 fine for not having it? Are they going to require all stores selling bicycles in the city to sell the licenses for those bikes? I can just see the local mega-mart there having to deal with a bicycle license.

If the intent of licensing is the return of stolen property, why would it be mandatory? Why not let those who think their bikes and chances of the city organizing the return of stolen bikes have a combined worth of 20 cents a year voluntarily pay?

The Detroit City Council’s Public Health and Safety Committee is holding a public hearing to remove the Detroit bike license requirement. That meeting is scheduled for Monday, July 28th at 10:30 AM at the Coleman A. Young Municipal Center (Jefferson at Woodward.)

We certainly could use some Detroit residents at this hearing to voice their support for this change.

Detroit Bike License info (http://www.m-bike.org/blog/2008/07/22/public-hearing-to-end-detroit-bike-license-requirement)

We made more progress today in removing Detroit's bike license requirement from the books.
http://www.m-bike.org/blog/tags/bicycle-license

That's excellent news! Thank you so much! I wish I could have come instead of working but it sounds like it's on the fast track to being repealed!