Road Bike Racing - Racing in different States; comparison

Question for those who have travelled for races. How does the racing in various parts of the country compare. I'm especially curious how Florida racing stacks up to other flat land racing given that folks in FLA can ride/race/train all year round...

I'm not sure that being able to train year-round is actually a good thing. One of the fastest regions in the country is the Colorado Front Range (Boulder-Denver). I think CA is probably the fastest though.

I still don't think TX is as fast as Colorado, after riding with another Cat 3 and a former pro out there last summer. TX is a lot faster now than it was 10 years ago though. I have no idea about FL, but I don't recall any current Euro pros who grew up racing there...

My experience has been that Florida's harder than Georgia. I can't speak for other states..

states? petty small scope, no?

i live and race in the washington dc area. its super competitive and crit heavy. Last year I went to phoenix arizona and found the racing to be a lot different. First of I was able to win a crit relatively easy out there. Its like they didnt under stand the concept of the race. The road race I did out there was an actual 64 mile out and back with real climbing instead of the typical 10 mile loop courses that go on in the east coast. I got crushed in the road race in AZ where over on the east coast I would generally be able to hang in even the hardest races because of the lack of serious climbing.

Ive also done some racer group rides while in chicago and found the total flatland thing to be much different than the rolling terrain in the dc area. It definitely changed the rythem of the riding.

I suspect the biggest factor is the size of the racer population. More racers mean more races and more super fast guys who drag the pack around. USCF somewhere on the site has a breakout of licensees by geography.

Just fyi, Texans usually compete pretty well when in other states. John Korioth just won 40-44 nats, the juniours/u23's have been placing in their NRC events and the ladies have been placing well in the NRC events.

I'm just curious. Ocassionally I travel for work or for pleasure and I would like to get an idea of the scene in various places. For example, I'm planning on doing the 1st Annual Chicago Crit. on July 27 since I lived in Chicago prior to moving back in Miami and love the idea of a race in Grant Park near the lake and on Michigan Ave.

I think (based on no evidence of course) that Miami may be a little tougher since 1) there are a lot of cyclist down here period; 2) a lot of folks from countries where cycling is much more of a national pastime than in the US; 3) and the riding all year-round (i.e. folks may be on form more of the year since they don't hang it up for long winters).

If you are going to think of it that way than chicao is probably tough since the are a lot closer to some of biggest races of the year, superweek.

Never thought of that... but I was referring more to the Cat 3 and under folks. The locals... that month is big up in Illinois, with Elk Grove and and Int'l Cycling Classic in Wisconsin.

I'm just curious. Ocassionally I travel for work or for pleasure and I would like to get an idea of the scene in various places. For example, I'm planning on doing the 1st Annual Chicago Crit. on July 27 since I lived in Chicago prior to moving back in Miami and love the idea of a race in Grant Park near the lake and on Michigan Ave.

I think (based on no evidence of course) that Miami may be a little tougher since 1) there are a lot of cyclist down here period; 2) a lot of folks from countries where cycling is much more of a national pastime than in the US; 3) and the riding all year-round (i.e. folks may be on form more of the year since they don't hang it up for long winters).

Chicago is host to half of the SuperWeek series, host of the national criterium championships, and host of the biggest money races in the US.

Do you really think racing around here is easier than Miami?

The racers make the races hard. Race long enough and you'll find out that's true regardless of where you are.

I used to do the early season collegiate races in Florida. Most of us were just coming off of winter riding and so weren't back in the groove with large pack dynamics. The higher speeds and lack of pack riding practice made for some very harrowing crashes. The only times I ever crased in races was in Florida. Other bad things always happen to me when I go there, so I will never race or even ride there ever again.

Also, I believe that the off season for Florida is actually during the summer when it's just too friggin' hot be away from an air conditioner. Kinda like Texas.

Chicago is host to half of the SuperWeek series, host of the national criterium championships, and host of the biggest money races in the US.

Do you really think racing around here is easier than Miami?

The racers make the races hard. Race long enough and you'll find out that's true regardless of where you are.

True...

That said, I think early season racing in the colder parts of the country could be a bit easier for someone who can train comfortably outside all winter.

In the winter in N. Carolina I can ride nearly every day. If it's too bitterly cold to break out the road bike, it's NEVER too cold (rarely below 20 degrees) to ride trails on the MTB or CX bike. Hence, it's a lot easier to bang out rides at least mentally, than it is on the trainer.

I plan on testing this theory out early one spring in Iowa after riding my ass off in our comparatively balmy weather :D

states? petty small scope, no?

Considering Belgium is smaller than Maryland, I don't think so.

Tell me where a mediocre NorCal crit guy can go and be a big fish in a small pond. I'll be on the first plane out.

Tell me where a mediocre NorCal crit guy can go and be a big fish in a small pond. I'll be on the first plane out.

Not if I beat you to it!

I think CA is probably the fastest though.


Yeah baby!!! :thumb:

Considering Belgium is smaller than Maryland, I don't think so.

or for that matter, that the US is 2.5 times larger than the entire EU .. . . .

Tell me where a mediocre NorCal crit guy can go and be a big fish in a small pond. I'll be on the first plane out.

Chicago.

botto is correct on this one.

I know the question is regarding the USA, but others responded to his comment.

If the us is 2.5 bigger than the eu, how come there is not 2.5 as many good cyclists? and the racing not 2.5 times as better or harder?

botto is correct on this one.

I know the question is regarding the USA, but others responded to his comment.

If the us is 2.5 bigger than the eu, how come there is not 2.5 as many good cyclists? and the racing not 2.5 times as better or harder?

2.5 times as many rednecks? I think there are a lot of cultural differences that mean several of the world's potential top cyclists never even slip into a cycling shoe. And that goes for other countries as well.

Just fyi, Texans usually compete pretty well when in other states. John Korioth just won 40-44 nats, the juniours/u23's have been placing in their NRC events and the ladies have been placing well in the NRC events.

Wow, this is the first I've heard of Korioth's victory. Impressive. Makes me not feel so bad getting 15th in races where he's held to 3rd or so. I still plan to get to his level though.

2.5 times as many rednecks? I think there are a lot of cultural differences that mean several of the world's potential top cyclists never even slip into a cycling shoe. And that goes for other countries as well.

true.

When I was a junior 1990-91ish, racing in CO state titles was more or less = to racing the USA national titles.

But I had been living the 3-4 years before in Europe, in a mountains region and there is just the sheer numbers there to make it much harder.

If the us is 2.5 bigger than the eu, how come there is not 2.5 as many good cyclists? and the racing not 2.5 times as better or harder?

Because the talented athletic teenagers who could develop into top cyclists in America become track and field athletes or swimmers. Watch us get 2.5x more medals than the EU next month and you'll see where our potential top cyclists are.

If the us is 2.5 bigger than the eu, how come there is not 2.5 as many good cyclists? and the racing not 2.5 times as better or harder?

B/c less than 1% of the US population gives a hoot about bike racing.

Because the talented athletic teenagers who could develop into top cyclists in America become track and field athletes or swimmers. Watch us get 2.5x more medals than the EU next month and you'll see where our potential top cyclists are.

I owe you a beer for this excellent response.
Also, check out the Weightlifting competition at the games. Watch the Super Heavy Weight from Iran, he should win gold. Here in the states he'd be on the O-Line in the NFL making millions.

Chicago.

Northside or Southside?

Because the talented athletic teenagers who could develop into top cyclists in America become track and field athletes or swimmers. Watch us get 2.5x more medals than the EU next month and you'll see where our potential top cyclists are.

I'm not 100% sure if your bragging or complaining.

I think it's a shame cyclings not as popular.

But for the usa with however many people it has in population one would think more would stand out in cycling.

[QUOTE=woodduck;7017628]true.

When I was a junior 1990-91ish, racing in CO state titles was more or less = to racing the USA national titles.

QUOTE]

Jonathon Vaughters, Jimi Killen, Greg Miller, Chris Wherry, Heath Sandall. All Colorado juniors at that time. They would rip at all of the stage races and nationals.

Considering Belgium is smaller than Maryland, I don't think so.


you're not seriously comparing the range and quality of racing in maryland, with that of belgium. are you?


or for that matter, that the US is 2.5 times larger than the entire EU .. . . .

irrelevant. duh.

I'm not 100% sure if your bragging or complaining.

I think it's a shame cyclings not as popular.

But for the usa with however many people it has in population one would think more would stand out in cycling.

Neither bragging nor complaining. It would be nice if more teenage athletes got into cycling here in a serious way, and I think the main reason they don't is once you turn 15 in the US competitive sport is mostly organized by high schools and no longer local clubs like Little League. If the high school doesn't support a sport as a varsity sport it just won't ever have the numbers. Add to that the cost of being a competitive cyclist and it isn't shocking to see why kids in the US are choosing to run or swim in greater numbers. Maybe if cycling became a varsity sport at the high school level and thus had the costs defrayed by the school you would probably see a dramatic rise in the numbers. Probably not likely.

My (anecdotal only) observations from national champions, visiting racers, etc. is that the top level (or any level) of cyclists in any region (of the US) is about the same. It's just that in the more cyclists there are in that reagion, the more there are at that level. You may find something like better crit racers in the Midwest/Southeast vs better road racers where ther are mountains.

As for comparing the US to EU, I don't think you realize how insignificant road bike racing is in the US. Most people don't even know it exists. I had been riding several years (started in 2000) before I realized that there were road bike races in this country. I live within an hour of two velodromes, the US Pro Crit couse, several of the Superweek races, etc. Maybe think Curling in EU.

TF

you're not seriously comparing the range and quality of racing in maryland, with that of belgium. are you?

I'm not *seriously* comparing them. That was the point.

There should be more differences than there is; I'm curious to see what everyone else's thoughts on the delta between regions/states is.

PS: what's the difference between racing in Michigan and Belgium? Michigan is much larger, so I should do pretty well in Belgium, right?

Oh brother, a my district is toughest discussion:rolleyes:

There are good racers everywhere. Bigger districts are deeper (i.e. more folks that can win on any given day), but if you're a regular podium contender in your own district, you'd be a regular podium contender in any other, except when terrain selects the rider, for instance a chubby flattish land critter that dominates is going to have a tough time against the fly weight climbers in the rockies, or vice versa.

Biggest differences in districts are at the top of the P12 level. There are more Ps and 1s with national or international aspirations and in development programs in the CO front range, So Cal, and No Cal districts, so those races are naturally going to be more competitive than in my MABRA district where the average P is a visitor/has been/never was, and the 1s and 2s are longer in the tooth - pushing low to mid 30s.

Neither bragging nor complaining. It would be nice if more teenage athletes got into cycling here in a serious way, and I think the main reason they don't is once you turn 15 in the US competitive sport is mostly organized by high schools and no longer local clubs like Little League. If the high school doesn't support a sport as a varsity sport it just won't ever have the numbers. Add to that the cost of being a competitive cyclist and it isn't shocking to see why kids in the US are choosing to run or swim in greater numbers. Maybe if cycling became a varsity sport at the high school level and thus had the costs defrayed by the school you would probably see a dramatic rise in the numbers. Probably not likely.

I don't think making it a varsity sport would really help. The problem is that there's just not the interest to be good at cycling in the US. High school sports aren't the feeder programs for colleges/pro ranks for sports where the majority of the athletes come from more affluent families (with the cost of cycling, this would be pretty necessary). While there are high school tennis and swimming programs (two sports that tend to be better in upscale suburban areas), young athletes are recruited from tennis academies and USS swim clubs. The place to get cyclists would be from USCF racing. If we want the US to be better at cycling, we'd need more junior racers.

Oh brother, a my district is toughest discussion:rolleyes:

I dunno, it's been a pretty civil discussion thus far with a fairly general consensus of what areas are hotly contested.

Personally, I'm moving to Alabama. Not because it's easier there, but because it's warmer in the winter.

My (anecdotal only) observations from national champions, visiting racers, etc. is that the top level (or any level) of cyclists in any region (of the US) is about the same. It's just that in the more cyclists there are in that reagion, the more there are at that level. You may find something like better crit racers in the Midwest/Southeast vs better road racers where ther are mountains.

As for comparing the US to EU, I don't think you realize how insignificant road bike racing is in the US. Most people don't even know it exists. I had been riding several years (started in 2000) before I realized that there were road bike races in this country. I live within an hour of two velodromes, the US Pro Crit couse, several of the Superweek races, etc. Maybe think Curling in EU.

TF

1) I can use living in the wrong region as an excuse, cool! :thumb:

2)I hate you.

you're going to love the 4 hour drives to 1 hour long races.

Yep

Yep

at least he'll be that much closer to the BBQ Shop, Gus's Fried Chicken, and Barksdale's biscuits.

What are you comparing here? CAT 1/2 guys/gals or lower CATs? Anything CAT 3 and lower changes by region month to month as folks upgrade...... You might have a strong CAT 3 region this year but next year its weak compared to others...

One of my teammates, who had just upgraded to cat 3 here in CA went back to his home state of Ohio for vacation, and did a race put on by Team Dayton. He got 2nd in the cat 3 race and 7th in the 1,2,3 race. He has a full report is on his blog (http://web.mac.com/sethzaleski/Seths_Home_Page/ThroughZsEyes/Entries/2008/7/6_Back_Home.html), but here is an interesting snippet:


The 1,2,3 race was preceded by a light version of the second kind of rain I described earlier, but fortunately the rain held quit as we rolled up to the line. This field was much smaller with 17 riders lining up, nine or so of them being from Team Dayton. Needless to say Team Dayton showed some excellent team tactics and sent a rider of their up the rode with another rider from a different team. These riders eventually lapped the field, due to the best blocking I’ve ever seen in a race. I sat in and enjoyed the rest of the race, and sprinted to a 7th place finish.

Overall the racing in Ohio was more competitive than I had anticipated, mainly due to the presence of a team that actually raced as one. Kudos to Team Dayton!!!

One of my teammates, who had just upgraded to cat 3 here in CA went back to his home state of Ohio for vacation, and did a race put on by Team Dayton. He got 2nd in the cat 3 race and 7th in the 1,2,3 race. He has a full report is on his blog (http://web.mac.com/sethzaleski/Seths_Home_Page/ThroughZsEyes/Entries/2008/7/6_Back_Home.html), but here is an interesting snippet:

Funny you should mention Ohio and the Team Dayton crit, as I just moved out of that area a few weeks ago. I probably know most of the guys your buddy raced against.

I moved from NC (supposedly a "fast" area) to OH a couple years ago and back just now. When I first went out, I thought OH was about a half-cat slower than NC, but moving back this time, I really think they're the same. The only difference, as others have said, is that the terrain selects different riders. Ohio had more flats and favored heavier rouleurs, which was good for me. NC has more sawtooth up and downs that favor lighter riders. For the same kind of races, I do pretty much the same against the guys in NC as I did in OH.

NC seems to think it's a bigger deal, though. More type-A personalities, egos, etc. Ohio was a lot more fun, with smiles and jokes back in the parking lot after the race.

you're going to love the 4 hour drives to 1 hour long races.

On second thought, it's a little too flat for me. Perhaps Spain. Or maybe Northern Italy. I'll have to check the solar insolation maps.

On second thought, it's a little too flat for me. Perhaps Spain. Or maybe Northern Italy. I'll have to check the solar insolation maps.
not compared to michigan.

not compared to michigan.

There are some pretty nice climbs of the ~5min variety in MI, if you get up north a ways. Obviously not a mountain, but far hillier than other regions of the Midwest.

There are some pretty nice climbs of the ~5min variety in MI, if you get up north a ways. Obviously not a mountain, but far hillier than other regions of the Midwest.

i'll have to take your word for it. i was conceived there, otherwise i've never been.

On second thought, it's a little too flat for me. Perhaps Spain. Or maybe Northern Italy. I'll have to check the solar insolation maps.


Depends on what part of Alabama you are moving to. The NE corner of the state is pretty damn hilly.... This guy thinks its a good place to live/train


http://www.mmwcycling.com/Team%20Members/RIDER_BIOS_MIKE_OLHEISER.htm

NC seems to think it's a bigger deal, though. More type-A personalities, egos, etc. Ohio was a lot more fun, with smiles and jokes back in the parking lot after the race.

So what a**hole !?!?! :lol:

See you on the P-ride in a month or two...

So, you guys are saying that there are places that are faster than SoCal??? Oh, f&*%!!! There goes my career...

So, you guys are saying that there are places that are faster than SoCal??? Oh, f&*%!!! There goes my career...

Depends on the time of year, really.