Training & Nutrition - Any other vegan cyclists? Looking for training dietary advice...

I know there's already one thread running in regards to vegetarian training diets, but I'm wondering if there's anybody on here that's vegan and also races road?

Let me go ahead and say that if you're just replying to tell me how a vegan diet is lacking in nutrients, stupid, whatever, save it. I've already heard these things time and time again. You won't be able to talk me out of my diet and lifestyle. And yes, I know where to get my protein, vitamins and so on...Not trying to be an jerk, but I'm just tired of hearing all of the same banter over and over again.

Anyways, on to my point...As of now, I'm just doing a good bit riding, between commuting and recreational / training rides. As I mentioned above, I already know what foods to eat, but I'm wanting to know what works best for you in terms of meal planning, and also what your training schedule looks like in terms of riding. I don't race yet, but I'm looking to in the coming months. Any tips and advice is greatly appreciated!

-L

I don't race, but I am vegan and ride a fair amount. Just wanted to let you know you have some support. :)

You might want to look into supplementing with some Soy Protein powder (shakes).

I think it would be pretty similar to what everyone eats: some sort of complex carb, good protein and fat meal in the morning, make sure to get your carbs in after you ride and have a good meal within an hour or so of racing. I used to like quinoa, fruit and almonds plus half a bagel with peanut butter. I think you could probably follow any recommended diet, just sub in your proteins of choice.

I really recommend an omega 3 supplement that isn't just flax or walnuts. They have capsules that are extracted from pursulane.

You might want to look into supplementing with some Soy Protein powder (shakes).

As of now, I'm using a Naturade Veglife Protein powder (blend of soy, pea and rice proteins) as well as a MLO Brown Rice Protein powder, depending on the day. I've used soy protein by itself before but I didn't notice as much of a difference as I do with the Veglife. I usually make a fruit / green smoothie every morning for breakfast with protein powder. Thanks!

Go for 2 boca burgers. Each has like 70 calories, .5g fat 6g carbs and 13g protein

As of now, I'm using a Naturade Veglife Protein powder (blend of soy, pea and rice proteins)

that stuff is 60% protein, 40% marketing.

if you want fast, easy, cheap(er) protein that's not excessively gross to eat, you want yves jumbo dogs (http://www.yvesveggie.ca/index.php?id=32)

Whatever you do stay away from soy, that stuff is not meant for human consumption. http://www.personalhealthzone.com/vitamins_supplements/soy_side_effects.html
http://www.healingcrow.com/soy/soy.html

I've been a cycle courier (i.e. 'bike messenger') for two years, and vegan for about the same length of time.

I generally try and stick to higher protein food (lentils, beans, chickpeas, brown rice, wholewheat bread, quinoa etc. and fake sausages if I'm desperate) than protein shakes - only because they taste disgusting and they make my sh*t really runny.

Also because I'm not sure if it's a good idea to have protein in such a rapidly absorbable form, on its own - can't be too good for the kidneys...

Ok, this guy is asking for sincere training advice for vegans - not judgement on his dietary choices. If you don't have anything useful to contribute, don't post. If you'd like to argue about veganism or vegetarianism, take it to the Politics & Religion forum.

donnamb
forum administrator (and omnivore)

I am also a vegan and part time racer.

I would just suggest keeping your diet very balanced.

If you are training a lot, especially if you are doing intervals, make sure you eat a decent amount of both carbs and protein right after a session to help restore your glycogen (carbs) and to help rebuild the muscles quicker that get stressed during strenuous exercise (protein).

A lot of people feel that soy is "bad" for you. I am not to open this can of worms. I will say that I eat a decent amount of soy as a vegan and I have not suffered any of the supposed health effects. I can say the same for many other vegan athletes I know. However, I also utilize a wide range of other foods that contain proteins such as lentils, beans, seitan, tempeh (made from soy or grains), and rice products.

The important part is balancing your diet. I personally feel that 60% carbs, 20% protein, and 20% fat is a good ratio for a recreational cyclist. If you are race training, you may want to go with 50% carbs, 30% protein, 20% fat.

Just experiment to see how your body responds. Find the best diet for YOU rather than trying to fit into someone's template.

Good luck.

Fred

Look about half-way down on the page: http://cycle-smart.com/Articles/index_new2.html

Cycle-Smart has some pretty good ideas on nutrition for vegans – if you've watched "Transistion" you know all about the author of these papers.

When I eat soy, I prefer to get it in a "whole food" form, rather than the isolated soy protein. For example, tempeh, tofu, soymilk, or edamame.

i would look into both of these sites o begin with. the first is a road and track racer from canada. he has a good list of training diet requirments and pre/ post race nutriant requirments. being an elite racer he knows his way around a training routine and dietary needs. just because you know what to eat to sustain normal functions doesnt really translate perfectly. daves blog goes over everything you need in good detail.

http://cycling.thenoisies.com/

http://www.veganfitness.net/

the second is an athletic forum for vegans. covers pretty much any sport you want to do, including cycling. has training programs meal programs and cross training programs.

dave puts in a lot of content on veganfitness and there are others in there that have excellent advice.

if you are looking for suppliments i use vega protien meal replacer to make a recovery smoothy. the rest of the food try to stay with as much whole food as possible. if there are other things i could recomend is weight training. its a good cross training and helps build explosive power if the right excersizes are done.

if you have any further questions i would go to these vegan specific forums first instead of here.

XVX
jon

I'm vegan and a track racer (and I occasionally race road). After a training ride or a race I'll usually drink a glass of soy milk with a scoop of rice protein. I try to limit the amount of processed soy I eat as I have heard some mixed things about it (although I don't try that hard).

Recently I haven't been too serious about training but in the past I have reduced/removed the amount of white flour in my diet as well as sugar (basically any simple carbohydrates).

Ok, this guy is asking for sincere training advice for vegans - not judgement on his dietary choices. If you don't have anything useful to contribute, don't post. If you'd like to argue about veganism or vegetarianism, take it to the Politics & Religion forum.

donnamb
forum administrator (and omnivore)

Lighten up Francis!

I wasnt making a value judgement on his choice of lifestyle. I was joking about Ms. I's quip about support.

Go for 2 boca burgers. Each has like 70 calories, .5g fat 6g carbs and 13g protein

I'm an omnivore, and still think Boca Burgers are delicious.

Have you tried dates? They are a wonderful source of calories and a great way to get some quick energy. I think brown rice and black beans would be a good staple for a high active vegan diet.

Whatever you do stay away from soy, that stuff is not meant for human consumption.

Uh-oh, better warn the asians who have been eating it for centuries. :rolleyes:

To the OP- Beans. Lots of beans. There are so many different varieties each with unique flavors and textures. They're little energy bombs and so easy to prepare. Oh and they are super cheap.

Uh-oh, better warn the asians who have been eating [soy] for centuries. :rolleyes:

+1


if we really want to talk about food that's "not fit for human consumption" (and i am so not proposing we do) i think soy would be way down the list.

+1


if we really want to talk about food that's "not fit for human consumption" (and i am so not proposing we do) i think soy would be way down the list.

Give me tofu before a powerbar any day.

I would stay away from pure soy protein though. No thanks to chemically separated foods.

i like to start with power bars/peanuts on the first half of my ride, and finish it off with vegan gels.

outside of riding, i find that eating a lot of leafy greens does your body very well, as does a lot of fruit. you get a lot of carbs from these two, so you can eat fewer simple carb foods.

Lentils are vastly underused and underrated as a protien source. And insanely easy and fast to cook compared to other bean-type foods. You can go from cold pot to ready-to-eat in 20-25 mins. I'd expect spicing them up with some red miso would probably be acceptable, added right after you remove it from heat (I use, uh, ham bones...so I'm not gonna be a lot of help with flavorings there, sorry). Don't salt until after they're cooked or they'll drop their skins and turn into paste. I really just wanted to post to say (1) lentils good, and (2) red miso is good soup flavor :).

Olives. Olives are good too.

As you probably already know, a balanced Vegan diet is a challenge but it also has it's rewards.
With a bit of research and work it can be made to work quite well for certain people.
A good thing is to work closely with a nutricionist and have them use a program such as the
"Food Processor" to make sure you are not missing any important nutrients.
-B12: You are already probably taking B12 as a supplement but in my experience adding a micro-organism based source seems to work better.
Kombucha, Brewer's yeast, Kimchee & sour Kraut come to mind...there are not as high as the pills but vegans who take at least a bit seem to better than those taking just supplements.
-Lysine: Beans are the only plant-based food that provides a form of amino acid, lysine. Lysine is essential to creating protein, which fuels energy and muscle growth. Depending on your makeup, you might not be able to digest beans very well; look at Joseph D'Adamo's work ( I don't agree with it 100% but many of his ideas are very valid). If that's the case I say, supplement Lysine.
-Food combining for obtaining a more complete amino-acid profile.

A good source of ideas for nutrient rich Vegan dishes is the Indian diet. I was trying to create a mineral-balanced vegan diet with the "Food Processor" and it kept coming low in Iron & Copper. If I started adding Fe &Cu rich foods then the calories got unbalanced...the solution? Indian Food. The small amounts of spices on it contain a well balanced mineral profile...I was very impressed. It's like taking your supplements with your food. I am sure other ancient/ethnic cuisines that are traditionally vegetarian can provide other solutions too. Watch out for those that did consume plenty of dairy tough, they might not be as useful.

Those are just a few pointers, books have been written about the subject. However, sometimes it's hard to separate fact from fiction and what works for some might not work for others...keep experimenting, monitor your health, be aware that you needs (specially as an athlete) are unique and report back your findings so we can learn too...

PS. Unprocessed Soy is difficult to digest and toxic/estrogenic in large quantities. Some people do very poorly with lentils because they have low amounts of the digestive enzymes required to utilize them. The key is to find out if you are able to digest these foods and even then is a good idea not to rely on a single type of bean as a protein source. Diversify your diet.
I believe that in Asia they also supplement with seaweed...soy products can sequester Iodine so that is probably a way to counteract this effect...anyone?
Quinoa: it looks great on paper, it's what my ancestors used to eat BUT it gives me horrible stomach pain & bloats. Again, anyone experiences with Quinoa?

I get on fine with quinoa, I just don't particularly like it.


Indian Food. The small amounts of spices on it contain a well balanced mineral profile...I was very impressed. It's like taking your supplements with your food.
I had no idea about this - where did you find this out? I go through stages of eating a lot of 'Indian' food and I tend to feel more healthy than when I go for weeks without it...

Oh yeah that reminds me - this site has some pretty good vegan recipes on it: http://www.quickindiancooking.com/

Yo, if you're still looking for help, I've been a vegan cyclist for the last 6 years. I've raced, worked as a courier for a handful of years, done a fair share of alleycats, still ride bmx all the time, not to mention using a bike as my only real source of transportation.

If there's any day to day advice, or even long term dietary advice, I'd love to help any way I can.

Quinoa: it looks great on paper, it's what my ancestors used to eat BUT it gives me horrible stomach pain & bloats. Again, anyone experiences with Quinoa?

Love Quinoa...you have to rinse it really thoroughly before cooking it.

Hardest things I have experienced with vegan diet and fitness is getting enough calories in a short amount of time for recovery and long term sustained energy. These are not tied directly to veggie/vegan, as any athelete will burn a good amount of cals over a prolonged period of time and re-upping our stores is tricky. I personally had issue with beans and legumes(they don't mix with my system) so I ended up going to some eggs/fish here and there.

What I would do is is to eat often to keep energy levels up and when doing large amount of activity, I would have 1-3 small meals ready or at least in my head and at home easy to prepare, giving time to digest each a bit before moving on to the next maybe 10 or more min:
1. Fruit/veggies (celery blended in water is good) have also done soy/rice milk-water-celery sometimes adding in a bit of almond/other nut butter and maybe agave/honey for a sort smoothie and lots of water for immediate salt/water/sugar replacement
2. An avocado and other veggie sandwich, veggie sushi roll or veggie rice bowl and
3. A little later when I still needed some food and water a bowl of cereal.
For recovery I do pretty much the same even though I do not follow a vegan diet on all my meals these days, with doing my best to get things like romaine lettuce, carrots, celery as much as possible for the whole salt/water replacement throughout the day. Foods preserved in brine can be good for salt replacement as well, olives, jalepenos, pickles, etc come to mind they are just not complete electrolyte salts, good enough to get the water absorbing back in though, then balance out with the veggies.

Other things I have done with my diet have been:
Simplifying meals so I am as close to mono-eating as I can.
Keeping my order of food like this: fruits/sweets/easily digested 1st, grains/carbs 2nd, beans/meats/proteins/complex 3rd and veggies when ever preferably last to work as a sort of cleaning broom behind everything with their fiber.
I also do my best to eat whole foods and avoid as many processed items as possible. These things have helped me acquire a good feeling about my food on a regular basis.

No mention of The 80/10/10 Diet*?

I'm about 80% there. It's raw vegan-performance optimized. I've had great success dropping weight and getting more powerful on the bike. I started in March.

*Of course it's a lifestyle and not a xx-day program "diet".

I wanted to chime in on this..

Though I am not vegan but I am vegetarian for the last 16 + years and Chef for around 20 years but no longer a chef. I picked up RAW by Juliano with Erika Lenkert cook book. You may want to check it out if you do not already know about it. You will find some very nice recipes and ideas for foods...

http://www.planetraw.com/BooksDVDAudio.html

Ok, this guy is asking for sincere training advice for vegans - not judgement on his dietary choices. If you don't have anything useful to contribute, don't post. If you'd like to argue about veganism or vegetarianism, take it to the Politics & Religion forum.

donnamb
forum administrator (and omnivore)

That is hilarious! The nutrition forum is an inappropriate place to discuss the religion of veganism.

Thank you.

I opened up another thread on veganism and cycling thinking on first glance this one was racing specific, but browsing the thread this morning it looks like this one covers many of the issues I'm interested in. I'm mostly a commuter and distance cyclist, and a vegan.

I live in Atlanta, where we have quite a few resources useful for vegans (Sevananda, Cosmo's Vegan Shoppe, Rainbow Market, the Dekalb Farmers Market, a bunch of small community farmer's markets, and quite a few vegan restaurants and restaurants offering vegan options).

As a cyclist I haven't found a lot of difference in either my pre-riding habits or the food I carry with me for a ride (it's not like I was chowing down on meat before or during a ride even before I became a vegan).

The things that often come up when I'm discussing veganism with non-vegans are protein and calories. The question of calories always surprises me a bit, as I've never had problems getting adequate calories as a vegan (after all, olive oil is highly caloric). As for protein it isn't rocket science figuring out combinations which provide complete protein (beans and whole grain will do, many soy products, and quinoa).

My main problem has been eating when I travel, because veganism requires either preparing food myself, or finding local vegan restaurants, which takes a bit of planning.

Love Quinoa...you have to rinse it really thoroughly before cooking it.

I'm fond of quinoa also. There are a few recipes for quinoa salad which are both tasty and lend themselves
well to packing for long rides.

My main problem has been eating when I travel, because veganism requires either preparing food myself, or finding local vegan restaurants, which takes a bit of planning.

I travel about 50% (domestic and international). Have you checked out the Happy Cow (http://www.happycow.net/) website? Great resource.

Many times I just end up going to the local supermarket and buying food, though.

hi larry, others.

i've been vegan for 16 years, riding one bike or another for longer. i don't do any sort of training or anything, but i do commute 22 miles round trip almost daily. this is the farthest my bike commute has ever been, and the longer i do it, the more interested i become in learning more about training and becoming a better/more efficient cyclist. i have found it to get easier after 6 months, but that's from repetition, and not from any regimented training anything.
i can't offer any advice as far as nutritionally sound pre or post ride food goes, but i can post a link to my gf's awesome food blog (http://www.thepalatialpalate.blogspot.com), where she posts all kinds of yummy vegan goodness.
she might be here later to post some training or nutrition info. she grew up in a house with a pro cyclist parent, so she'll have much more on topic info to offer, methinks.

edited to fix my horrible linking skillz.

hi larry, others.

i've been vegan for 16 years, riding one bike or another for longer. i don't do any sort of training or anything, but i do commute 22 miles round trip almost daily. this is the farthest my bike commute has ever been, and the longer i do it, the more interested i become in learning more about training and becoming a better/more efficient cyclist. i have found it to get easier after 6 months, but that's from repetition, and not from any regimented training anything.
i can't offer any advice as far as nutritionally sound pre or post ride food goes, but i can post a link to my gf's awesome food blog (http://www.thepalatialpalate.com), where she posts all kinds of yummy vegan goodness.
she might be here later to post some training or nutrition info. she grew up in a house with a pro cyclist parent, so she'll have much more on topic info to offer, methinks.

Hi, josh. I think you truncated the URL of the blog, but searching I found it at

http://thepalatialpalate.blogspot.com/

I travel about 50% (domestic and international). Have you checked out the Happy Cow (http://www.happycow.net/) website? Great resource.

Many times I just end up going to the local supermarket and buying food, though.

Yeah, Happy Cow is excellent. I actually discovered a few Atlanta restaurants I didn't know about by browsing the Atlanta section.

Hi, josh. I think you truncated the URL of the blog, but searching I found it at

http://thepalatialpalate.blogspot.com/

i did. thanks for catching it. i'll go fix it now.

it's too early to be posting on the internet responsibly...

Have you tried dates? They are a wonderful source of calories and a great way to get some quick energy. I think brown rice and black beans would be a good staple for a high active vegan diet.

+1

I'm veggie, not vegan but enjoy eating Lara Bars before a long ride. They are made primarily of dates and usually have some sort of nut in them as well. A tastey fuel in my opinion. :thumb:

Well, since no one appears to have read Dr. Graham's stuff, let me throw a few things out there from what he teaches/lives. Most veg/vegans consume way too much fat-fat from oils, nuts, avocados, and such. Protein is never a problem--with only 10% being necessary. Reducing my fat and animal foods intake I dropped body fat like a rock--scary fast. Vitamins B-12 and D should be watched--and sought from natural sources. Supplementation is NEVER as good as whole food sources. D is best obtained from sunlight.

Carbs from fruit are the bestest thing ever--80/10/10 stands for carb/protein/fat percentages. Works GREAT for me

Well, since no one appears to have read Dr. Graham's stuff, let me throw a few things out there from what he teaches/lives. Most veg/vegans consume way too much fat-fat from oils, nuts, avocados, and such. Protein is never a problem--with only 10% being necessary. Reducing my fat and animal foods intake I dropped body fat like a rock--scary fast. Vitamins B-12 and D should be watched--and sought from natural sources. Supplementation is NEVER as good as whole food sources. D is best obtained from sunlight.

Carbs from fruit are the bestest thing ever--80/10/10 stands for carb/protein/fat percentages. Works GREAT for me

What non-supplement sources are there for B-12 for a vegan?

What non-supplement sources are there for B-12 for a vegan?

we eat a ton of nutritional yeast, and we just learned that it's a great source of all the b vitamins--including the elusive number 12-- as well as a bunch of other good stuff.

read more here:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nutritional_yeast

Graham talks about B-12 for a few pages and has lots of enlightening info about it.

The best source is organically grown produce from highly composted--non-fertilized (chemically) soils. Produce from the supermarket has none as the soils from which it is produced are "dead".

I expect that I get some from the weeds and other wild growing things that I eat. It is also produced in our own digestive tracts.

we eat a ton of nutritional yeast, and we just learned that it's a great source of all the b vitamins, as well as a bunch of other good stuff.

+1 for "nooch". this stuff is indispensable. recommend red star (http://www.lesaffrehumancare.com/index.asp)

Thanks for starting this up again over here, Larry.

We do eat a whole lot of nooch (which might be my most favorite thing ever). If I'm not mistaken, 2 tablespoons cover your nutritional requirements regarding the B's. And, like others, I don't have any qualms about tofu and love quinoa, but I'll also throw wheat gluten into the mix for a tasty high protein option. I make sausages at home that are easy, fast, and better than any store bought variety.

When I was training/riding a lot more a few years ago, I basically subscribed to the whole "Body for Life" diet plan (don't laugh), which I think works well for anyone regardless of diet. It's basically just 5-6 small meals a day: 1 serving of protein, one of carbs. He does suggest trying to work out before you eat, which I managed for a while and I was never in better shape, but I think that depends on how hard your morning workout is. My dad--who Josh mentioned is a competitive cyclist--basically adheres to this eating pattern and is still crazy fast.

One thing I've stopped doing is weight training. Anyone here have a regular routine that is really helping out on the bike. I'm planning on adding in intervals on the trainer this winter (so is Josh, though he doesn't realize it yet), but I know I need to do some strength training and I'd love any advice.

I make sausages at home that are easy, fast, and better than any store bought variety.

not to mention cheaper. holy crap those things are so good.


I'm planning on adding in intervals on the trainer this winter (so is Josh, though he doesn't realize it yet), but I know I need to do some strength training and I'd love any advice.

funny. when i hear "riding a bike in the basement", i think of this. (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cqSPdouir6Q)

Yeah, I'm a big fan of nooch also. I didn't realize it was a source of b12. The nooch based "cheezy sauce" from Veganomicon has become my favorite gravy-like substance.

If I recall correctly, Red Star Nutritional Yeast is a good source of B-12, but there are differences between different brands and some others are not as reliable a source.

Also, if you drink soymilk, the fortified brands always seem to include B-12 and D. Some commercial soymilks are unsupplemented, check the labels.

there is a "vegetarian oriented" version of the red star nooch that has a massive dose of b12 in it. i'm not sure why or how the b12 is increased whether it's through fortification or the growing medium or the yeast itself or what.

Has anyone tried any of Brendan Brazier's products: Vega? Personally, I never notice a difference when I'm taking supplements, but I know he has all kinds of stuff including meal replacements and bars. I'd be curious to know if anyone has tried any of it and what they think...

The good, in case you're interested: http://sequelnaturals.com/vega