Folding Bikes - Sidewalk Cycling! Let's all do it?

There's a lot of debate about cycling on the sidewalk in another thread. There appear to be several camps:

1) Cycling on sidewalks is morally incomprehensible and gets cyclists a Bad Name

2) Cycling on sidewalks is sometimes better than being killed by speeding traffic

3) People moralising about others behaviour should leave law enforcment to the police and get a life.


I got taken to task for admitting to cycling on the sidewalk in rural Oxfordshire. Yabbut. The road from Marcham to Abingdon is a 60 mph speed limit and heavily used by trucks. The sidewalk is used by pedestrians and bikes and both coexist peacefully. There is no cycle lane or signed cycleway, and even the local community police officers cycle on it. Yet, they are 'breaking the law'.

Flash to the Oxfordshire village of Carterton. Broad sidewalks, people of all ages and genders cycle on sidewalks. Nobody gives a hoot.

Yeah. I know NYC isn't some sleepy town in the UK. But would all you sofa-lawyers mind stopping telling other people what to do?

Thanks.





Folding bike content: I cycle on a folding bicycle, sometimes on the sidewalk.

Have you asked the pedestrians if they think you are coexisting peacefully?

Get a child's tricycle or a little bunny bike with training wheels, and nobody will bother you.

Yeah. I know NYC isn't some sleepy town in the UK. But would all you sofa-lawyers mind stopping telling other people what to do?

You mean like you're doing?

Do what is the safe for the circumstance.

Do what is the safe for the circumstance.

+1 (it is possible to ride on a pavement / sidewalk without causing danger to pedestrians, it just takes consideration)

On days when I know I'm going to have to ride on the Pavement I get up extra early so that I have time to fit my specially CNCed 'BoadiceaRotatingKnife™' axle attachments to ensure I get a clear and consistent path through the plebians.

[quote=Longfemur;7027192]Have you asked the pedestrians if they think you are coexisting peacefully?


Read the first message, third line, second paragraph.

You mean like you're doing?


-10 points for another feckless answer. Back to playschool for you, me lad.

It doesn't just take consideration. It depends on the bicycle rider being aware, alert and not making a mistake. This is too much to expect, and pedestrians do get hit by sidewalk riders almost every day. Pedestrians on sidewalks (not bikepaths) can't be expected to look behind them to make sure they aren't being overtaken by a goofball bicycle rider before they make a move to the left or right, or step out from a storefront, etc. They aren't vehicles on a vehicle roadway. Vehicles and pedestrians don't mix, period -- anywhere, anytime. If you have to use a sidewalk, walk your bike. I'm really a very easy going guy, but this is one subject about which I'm willing to be dogmatic, and especially after a goofball cyclist ran into me on a sidewalk a few weeks ago. Another pedestrian was seriously injured this way just recently not far from where I live. The police had a very brief, mostly publicity-oriented anti-sidewalk riding campaign for a couple of days, and then everything was back to the normal bicycle-pedestrian pinball machine game.

May you cycle on the sidewalk?

Your votes count:

Oxfordshire: +1
Ottowa: -1
Edison, NJ: Don't Know
London +1
London: Rotating Knives +1

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

keep 'em coming

Do what is the safe for the circumstance.

+3. I use sidewalks sparingly and if there are storefronts and/or enough pedestrians and the road isn't a safe option, I get off and walk. If the sidewalk is suitable and road isn't--I've been hit, screamed at and sideswiped on the road while riding my bike--I'll take to the sidewalk.

Ultimately, this seems to be an issue of urban vs. rural/suburban. How can we have one discussion about two (or three) completely different kinds sidewalk situations? I can totally understand Longfemur's point on well used city sidewalks, but can't apply that same logic to the OP's Oxfordshire walkways.

Nominated for "Not another sidewalk thread"...

hasn't this been done to death?

Well, I guess if you're talking about legislation, then you have to legislate for the worst expectation, in this case the ''goofball bicycle rider'' - so I suppose the law has to say no to sidewalk/pavement riding, in any circumstance. Mind you any urban cyclist who is not ''being aware, alert and not making a mistake'' (is that a double negative?) is probably not going to make it home for his tea one day soon.

To be honest, pedestrians are a pain in the ***, and it is as well to keep as far way from them as possible - have you ever walked behind one ? they are all over the place, turn left, turn right, slow dow, even stop dead still, pull out from the side without warning - a nightmare, I tell you.

There's a lot of debate about cycling on the sidewalk in another thread. There appear to be several camps:

1) Cycling on sidewalks is morally incomprehensible and gets cyclists a Bad Name

2) Cycling on sidewalks is sometimes better than being killed by speeding traffic

3) People moralising about others behaviour should leave law enforcment to the police and get a life.


I got taken to task for admitting to cycling on the sidewalk in rural Oxfordshire. Yabbut. The road from Marcham to Abingdon is a 60 mph speed limit and heavily used by trucks. The sidewalk is used by pedestrians and bikes and both coexist peacefully. There is no cycle lane or signed cycleway, and even the local community police officers cycle on it. Yet, they are 'breaking the law'.

Flash to the Oxfordshire village of Carterton. Broad sidewalks, people of all ages and genders cycle on sidewalks. Nobody gives a hoot.

Yeah. I know NYC isn't some sleepy town in the UK. But would all you sofa-lawyers mind stopping telling other people what to do?

Thanks.





Folding bike content: I cycle on a folding bicycle, sometimes on the sidewalk.

I'm the one who chimed in on the sidewalk issue in the other thread, so I figure a response is due here. I'm not too interested in re-hashing the topic to death but... I will make a few points.

First, there is another option that you didn't post, so I'll add it here :

4) Cycling on the sidewalk is usually more dangerous for both cyclists and pedestrians, and therefore best avoided.

A good way to avoid getting hit by a car is to be easily seen by the driver of said car.

A good way to be easily seen is to be in place where the driver expects to see stuff (i.e. the road).

Most statistics suggest that you are less likely to whacked if you are riding in the road in an appropriate manner than if you are on the sidewalk. Unless you get off the bike, look both ways, and walk across all intersections, driveways, etc. while pootling alongside the peds on the pavement.

You might feel more comfortable on the sidewalk, but you aren't safer there.

As for danger to peds, I agree that this can reduced. Just ride at or below the speed that you could run along the same pavement. You'll still likely hit someone suddenly stepping out in front of you, but you probably won't kill them. Of course, at that speed (I dunno, 8 MPH or slower) you might have more fun leaving the bike at home and just going for a walk...

Country roads might be another issue, but I've never seen a sidewalk at the side of one. In fact, I've cycled around a few people that have had no choice but to walk in the road out in the country.

Timely thing, this thread, as I just saw on the BBC news the story reporting the sentencing of cyclist who killed a ped while cycling on the pavement. This guy sounded like he had total disregard for others safety, and I'm not suggesting for a minute that anyone on this forum would behave similarly. Just mentioning it in reference to public opinion of cyclists on the pavement. I've certainly never heard of a ped who was happy with cyclists on the sidewalk with them. Just because they're not yelling at you, doesn't mean they're happy about it. At the end of the day, you have no right to cycle on a sidewalk. You do however, have every right to cycle on the road (or cycle path).

So, it seems that only benefit cited to pavement cycling is that it's safer than riding with cars on the road. Except it's not. Sure, you might not be a significant danger to peds if you cycle slow enough. Then again, bikes are hard and if you do hit someone, you will hurt them. At least a little bit. Why risk it when there is little benefit to you doing so?

If the road you want to ride on is too busy / fast / narrow for you to feel safe while riding on it, you probably shouldn't. That's not the same thing as saying that is justification for riding on the sidewalk. The two issues are separate.

Vehicles and pedestrians don't mix, period -- anywhere, anytime.

Better make sure you never cross a bridge in New York.

Or tow a child trailer from Washington Heights to the greenway entrance during rush hour, where your alternative to the sidewalk is Broadway.

Or commute in Queens where the sewer grates are along the right side of the road, the drainage slots are wider than a bike tire, the local motorcycle boys race and pop block-long wheelies when the trucks aren't shooting through, and the sidewalk along the cemetery wall has a quarter-mile of clear visibility, no shops or buildings, and is almost always devoid of pedestrians.

Depending on the conditions, circumstances, etc., sometimes it's safer for everyone involved if the bicycle is on the sidewalk. I'll wild-ass-estimate that's true 1% of the time. The other 99%, the bike belongs on the road.

But that 1% counts.

Ok, so I just posted a reply, which I wrote in between tending to crying baby, washing up, etc.

I stand by the what I said, but would like to add something.

Common sense. I would concede that in the situation described by snafu21, cycling on the pavement is probably OK from a social standpoint. Provided that it's no more than a pootling pace. If there is precedent for all concerned co-existing happily, by all means have at it. However, if you hit a ped while on yer bike pootling on the pavement, I'd still be inclined to place full responsibility on the cyclist.

I can't say for sure not having seen the road, but I wouldn't assume that you are safer cycling on the sidewalk there either.

Better make sure you never cross a bridge in New York.

Or tow a child trailer from Washington Heights to the greenway entrance during rush hour, where your alternative to the sidewalk is Broadway.

Or commute in Queens where the sewer grates are along the right side of the road, the drainage slots are wider than a bike tire, and the sidewalk along the cemetery wall has a quarter-mile of clear visibility, no shops or buildings, and is almost always devoid of pedestrians.

Depending on the conditions, circumstances, etc., sometimes it's safer for everyone involved if the bicycle is on the sidewalk. I'll wild-ass-estimate that's true 1% of the time. The other 99%, the bike belongs on the road.

But that 1% counts.

I'd argue that in all those cases, it's safer for all involved to walk the bike on the sidewalk.

I'd argue that in all those cases, it's safer for all involved to walk the bike on the sidewalk.

In the case of the bridge, you're in the way of the other cyclists.

In the case of the child trailer, you're blocking the sidewalk in some places because you've doubled your width.

In the case of the mile in Queens, you're adding significant unnecessary time to your commute, and not increasing anybody's safety, since there are almost never any pedestrians, and when there are, you can see each other coming from waaaay off.

I'd argue that you're arguing without much basis besides theory, and without seeing the actual roads and sidewalks.

(Nor, for that matter, how I navigate them.)

Timely thing, this thread, as I just saw on the BBC news the story reporting the sentencing of cyclist who killed a ped while cycling on the pavement. This guy sounded like he had total disregard for others safety, and I'm not suggesting for a minute that anyone on this forum would behave similarly. Just mentioning it in reference to public opinion of cyclists on the pavement. I've certainly never heard of a ped who was happy with cyclists on the sidewalk with them. Just because they're not yelling at you, doesn't mean they're happy about it. At the end of the day, you have no right to cycle on a sidewalk. You do however, have every right to cycle on the road (or cycle path).

Wow, hadn't heard of a cyclist killing a ped. Were there special circumstances, or was he just flying?

I only wish someone would tell drivers that. On the road I've gotten cursed at by drivers a number of times. Peds never, though I can't say I've ridden on a heavily trafficed sidewalk.

If it is that congested fold the bike and ride the transit.

I cycle on the pavement all the time and for some reason everyone just gets out of my way.

Here's my bike.

http://wm38.inbox.com/dnl/myPavementbike1.jpg.aspxx?_cu=3GNWggd7-0Y0fsZzawkTLD9rwKBDIjJnlYguRlrrbOKfAJO-4lA2BFFT0G4B8Flf1e2a2OfhEdrQozm7Pd1XeZIEuAA@@&PATH=0_-10_5_48&V=1

...and here's me on the way to work in the rush-hour.

http://wm38.inbox.com/dnl/mypavementbike2.jpg.aspxx?_cu=3GNWggd7-0Y0fsZzawkTLD9rwKBDIjJnlYguRlrrbOKfAJO-4lA2BFFT0G4B8Flf1e2a2OfhEdrQozm7Pd1XeZIEuAA@@&PATH=0_-10_5_49&V=1

In the case of the bridge, you're in the way of the other cyclists.

In the case of the child trailer, you're blocking the sidewalk in some places because you've doubled your width.

In the case of the mile in Queens, you're adding significant unnecessary time to your commute, and not increasing anybody's safety, since there are almost never any pedestrians, and when there are, you can see each other coming from waaaay off.

I'd argue that you're arguing without much basis besides theory, and without seeing the actual roads and sidewalks.


Funny thing about these forum argument thingies. For every person making an argument based on theory, another will make a counter argument citing anecdotal specifics. There's not much point in continuing on in such a manner, cause all it tends to do is tick people off. I may or may not have ridden on the roads you are talking about, I'm guessing not. I'll offer the following rebuttal, in the spirit of completeness and offering an alternative viewpoint, then leave the matter alone. I think the people on the folding bike thread are good, reasonable people who don't go around knocking people about the pavements for kicks. It also seems that the members of this sub-forum try to ride safely and considerately. I certainly don't want to irritate people with pedantics, which is where these kind of discussions usually wind up. My response to your examples were more to illustrate that there are usually viable alternatives to riding on pavements in general terms. I was in no way trying to criticize your riding practice. As you rightly pointed out, It's something I have no knowledge of. Apologies if I caused offence.

The bridge:

Are there peds and cyclists sharing the same space ? If so, are the peds also in the way of cyclists ? If there are no peds, then it's effectively a cycle path.

Child trailer:

A child trailer doesn't take up anymore space than a two-seater jogging stroller thingy. It's possible to walk with one of those on the pavement in most cases.

The mile in Queens:

I dunno maybe it's safe for all concerned. It sounds like you're more likely to get whacked while crossing intersections while riding on the pavement there. (I'm assuming you know this and ride accordingly, just mentioning it here for the benefit of any newbies that might read this.)

OK. I'm going to go ride my bike now. The sun is shining, and that doesn't happen much in Glasgow these days.

I use the sidewalk if I feel the road may be too dangerous but I don't use
the sidewalk if it's too busy with pedestrians. I rode mostly on the sidewalk
around the South street seaport area of manhattan, those side streets are
narrow and with lincoln town cars going by and bad roads ahead it can
get dicey. (cobblestones, ruts and potholes, stormgrates)
The side streets are more like alleyways so there's usually no peds walking
on it.

I see two types of pavement cyclist here; first is chavvy types on BMX's and mountain bikes weaving in and out of people at speed, often looking over their shoulders at something else as they do. I want to punch these people. Second is elderly ladies and mothers pootling along the pavement at little more than walking pace. These people irritate me a little, as there's a perfectly good road, and their presence kinda validates the recklessness of the chavvy types, but I don't want to punch them. I would, given the opportunity, try hard to persuade them to use the road like grownups, not least because that's the best way to get cars to learn.

Personally, I ride on the road, always. Even the officially marked shared paths are seldom worth the risk of people who aren't paying attention because it's a pavement, or the chavvy mothers with their buggys who will actually make a virtue of blocking cyclists. I very seldom feel in any real danger from traffic, though I routinely ride on busy two lane roads with 60mph limits. I feel bad for those who feel differently, which is why I don't feel real anger towards those who are riding on the pavement out of fear, but trying to be respectful to other pavement users. I still think they're wrong.

''Most statistics suggest that you are less likely to whacked if you are riding in the road in an appropriate manner than if you are on the sidewalk. '' - I find this difficult to comprehend, if yoy are not safe from motorists on the sidewalk, what chance have you got on the road ?

As to the case reported by the BBC the cyclist appears to have been on the road, not the pavement, he was riding very aggressively, and shouted at a group of people to get out of his way, its not clear if they were on the road or the pavement. Alas one of them, a young girl, was unable to get out of the way, and was struck at an estimated 17 mph, causing her to hit her head on the pavement, resulting in injuries from which she subesquently died. All parties seem to be in agreement that the cyclist had every opportunity to steer round the group of people, but he chose not to.

Apologies if I caused offence.

Apologies if I seemed to be taking any.

I think it's clear that what you call anecdotal examples are as accurately called exceptions that disprove the black-and-white rule.


Are there peds and cyclists sharing the same space ? If so, are the peds also in the way of cyclists ? If there are no peds, then it's effectively a cyclepath.

In some cases, they share the same space. This is also true of some New York bike lanes. The pedestrians take up less of that space than somebody walking a bike, so a walked bike becomes more of a cycling impediment (I won't go so far as to say "road hazard") than either a pedestrian or a ridden bicycle.


A child trailer doesn't take up anymore space than a two-seater jogging stroller thingy. It's possible to walk with one of those on the pavement in most cases.

You walk behind a double stroller. You walk next to a bike towing one. It's much wider that way. (I have twins, trust me on this one.)


It sounds like you're more likely to get whacked while crossing intersections while riding on the pavement there. (I'm assuming you know this and ride accordingly, just mentioning it here for the benefit of any newbies that might read this.)

That would be true if there were any intersections, but the only break in the long cemetery wall is the driveway in and out.

My point being not to pick you to death with snarky counterexamples, but to disprove the notion that riding on the sidewalk is ALWAYS, with NO EXCEPTIONS, a dangerous, inconsiderate, and boneheaded thing to do. Some of us boneheads also have a few functional neurons.

.............

A good way to avoid getting hit by a car is to be easily seen by the driver of said car.

A good way to be easily seen is to be in place where the driver expects to see stuff (i.e. the road).
.......


My experience indicates they make little difference, as many "drivers" are utterly incompetent at driving, incapable of adhering to safe speeds, irresponsible, not concentrating, & totally unaware of what it's like to ride a bicycle (in traffic).


Where do you live & ride?

Snafu lives in the UK, where a lot of pavements are shared amongst pedestrians, wheelchair users, disabled vehicle drivers, horse riders, & cyclists.

Sadly, many people have no thought for anybody else. Self is the only consideration.

Jagee seems to me to have a good appreciation of the situation snafu describes.




Of course, at that speed (I dunno, 8 MPH or slower) you might have more fun leaving the bike at home and just going for a walk...


Some people have foot (feet) problems which prevent them walking > several hundred yards, but they can cycle comfortably for several miles.

I was recently cycling away from "Fringford", a small village in Buckinghamshire, not too far from Oxfordshire. The gps I had at the time seemed to have a death wish, recommending only "A" roads for a bicycle, & unfortunately for me, whilst riding on a couple miles stretch of such, I needed to turn right onto a country lane to continue my journey. Some lunatic, several hundred yards behind me was approaching at about 80 mph, sounding his horn repeatedly. I had no alternative but to abandon my turn & get to the left hand verge (no pavement on that road). As he sped past, I pointed agitatedly to the huge "50 mph" sign, which had absolutely no significance for him. To my pleasant surprise, several further drivers behind him actually slowed to allow me to make my turn. They were clearly shocked at his "driving".

It matters not if it's walking, cycling, or driving - responsibility is required for one's actions......

When in Rome....If I deemed the street too narrow, fast and dangerous for me, I would go on the sidewalk with my bike-but not on it. That way I turn into a pedestrian and place no one in danger. As soon as it is safe, I go back into the street where I belong. Who says I must ride the thing all of the time?

I know I said was done on the matter. Just thought it was fair to answer the questions asked of me.


''Most statistics suggest that you are less likely to whacked if you are riding in the road in an appropriate manner than if you are on the sidewalk. '' - I find this difficult to comprehend, if yoy are not safe from motorists on the sidewalk, what chance have you got on the road ?


I just did a quick google on the subject, but this covers it pretty well.
http://www.kenkifer.com/bikepages/health/risks.htm

Basically, its safer to ride you bike in the street than it is to walk on a sidewalk. The problem is where the sidewalk crosses the road / driveways, etc. It's the same reason that many cyclists don't like to ride on cycle paths that cross roads.



I think it's clear that what you call anecdotal examples are as accurately called exceptions that disprove the black-and-white rule.

My point being not to pick you to death with snarky counterexamples, but to disprove the notion that riding on the sidewalk is ALWAYS, with NO EXCEPTIONS, a dangerous, inconsiderate, and boneheaded thing to do. Some of us boneheads also have a few functional neurons.

Agreed. But, to be fair, I never suggested that it was black-and-white rule. I was putting forward the opinion that in the vast majority of cases, keeping off the sidewalk / pavement while riding yer bike makes the most sense. The examples you give don't really disprove or prove anything. They do provide examples of when you think the best option for you is to ride on the sidewalk. You seem a reasonable, safe, rider. Therefore, I'd assume your reasoning in this matter is also reasonable and safe. But it doesn't go any further than that.

Twins, wow! We've just got the one wee tot at the moment, biding my time until she's old enough to get in a trailer...


My experience indicates they make little difference, as many "drivers" are utterly incompetent at driving, incapable of adhering to safe speeds, irresponsible, not concentrating, & totally unaware of what it's like to ride a bicycle (in traffic).


Where do you live & ride?

I currently live and ride in Glasgow, Scotland. I've also ridden regularly in Chicago, Milwaukee, Tucson, London, and Southern France. Up until I became a stay-at-home dad, I was commuting and leisure riding about 50-100 miles a week a mixed bag of rural / suburban / city roads. Now it's mostly on the turbo trainer with weekend rides in the country to blow the cobwebs out.

While I agree that most drivers don't know what it's like to cycle in traffic, I've found the really dangerous, negligent drivers to be in the minority. If they weren't, nobody would get anywhere without death or injury. It's just a shame that the few really bad drivers out there can do real damage in an instant. Certainly makes a strong impression each time it happens. :twitchy: That said, for every person that cuts me up, yells something at me, toots, or is negligent, there are many other that give me plenty of room, wait for me to pass the intersection, look in their mirror before opening there doors. I've even seen people smile at me while waiting for red lights. Even more so when I'm out on my swift. :thumb:



It matters not if it's walking, cycling, or driving - responsibility is required for one's actions......

Amen !

People get irritatingly moralistic about this subject.

It is perfectly possible and commonly happens for cyclists and pedestrians to use the same spaces. There are miles of shared facilities marked up as shared space in this city. There are also many more miles that could be shared, but are not designated as such. Here in Newcastle, there are miles of broad and almost empty pavements linking suburbs to the city centre. They are typically about seven feet wide and are little used by pedestrians. Where these kinds of pavements adjoin a busy road that I need to cycle, I use the pavement BUT I RIDE WITH EXTREME RESEPCT FOR ANY PEDESTRIAN THAT I MEET. I do this by slowing down, or even dismounting if there is the slightest chance that I may irritate or startle the pedestrian. If they are walking away from me and cannot see, I use my bell and when they turn, I wave and greet them. This is universally reciprocated. It is totally unreasonable and dangerous to attempt to pass a pedestrian on a pavement at speed. The man who was fined today the ludicrously low sum of £2200 for killing a girl while riding straight at her at speed and shouting to her to get out of his way and that he would not stop, ought to have been charged with manslaughter and jailed!

If a pavement is busy with pedestrians or kids, I won't ride on it.

Cyclists and pedestrians can and do share all kinds of routes in a perfectly legal way on designated routes. i feel that many of these are established in a purely arbitrary manner and that more safe shared routes could be designated if lazy local officials got off their backsides and made it work.

There are safe pavement cyclists and yobs on bikes - the same as car drivers on the roads, but one thing is for certain, notwithstanding the recent tragedy, many more cyclists are killed and maimed by car drivers than pedestrians are by bikes. The ratio is probably 100:1.

I live in a pretty pleasant suburb and bikes on the sidewalk aren't a problem at all. In Vancouver, BC (Canada), there are also bikes on the sidewalk and nobody minds, I don't mind as long as there's enough space. Downtown Vancouver, there are fewer bikes on the sidewalk because it's more cramped. I bike on the road or walk my bike on the sidewalk, as a law-abiding new cyclist.

You seem a reasonable, safe, rider. Therefore, I'd assume your reasoning in this matter is also reasonable and safe. But it doesn't go any further than that.

That's all the far I ask for.


Twins, wow!

Oh yes.

Oh yes.

Oh my yes.

Trailers are interesting. You should probably start doing your research now. The ways you can go wrong are without end.


Even more so when I'm out on my swift. :thumb:

My brother!

Just today, I got 2 very angry honks for riding on the road, just 8 miles too! I also got passed very closely several times, even though the other lane was empty and they could have easily switched lanes. What's to stop one of these lunatics from swiping me with his sideview mirror? I would get knocked out and if I live, there's no way I would have gotten his license plate. The speed limit on my commute is 45 mph. I am going about 18mph, so that's a differential speed of over 20 mph. I have a cyclist friend who told me she knows of several people who have had stuff thrown at them from moving cars. I only pass 5 or so pedestrians over the 8 miles, and 1 or 2 bikes. If there is sidewalk I think I should be able to use it. If I see a pedestrian I just get in the grass, problem solved. If I can't use the sidewalk, then I suppose bike riding is not something I can do anymore. Cyclists are not welcome here in Goose Creek, SC.

Just today, I got 2 very angry honks for riding on the road, just 8 miles too!

Today I got yelled at for being in the street. I yelled back. He didn't want to stop yelling. I didn't either. He stopped his car and got out and yelled. I yelled back. He called me various names. I just kept repeating "Look before you pull out, moron" louder than any of the nonsense he was trying to throw at me because he felt stupid.

He eventually heard what I was saying and realized I was right, and his energy level decreased. He went back to his car. Still yelling. Less loudly. And left.

I used the adrenaline on the greenway.

I ride sidewalks from time to time when circumstances call for it.

We're lucky here in Oz, drivers are less agressive. I have only been deliberately hit once and unintentionally once. Never had stuff thrown and get honked or shouted at only a few times a year. Mostly P-platers.

They may be dead wrong, but you may end up "Dead Right." I prefer riding on the road since the sidewalk along my commute route is bumpy and bad shape, and try to as much as possible, but I don't want to piss people off either. My 140lbs+25 lbs bike <<4000 lbs of vehicle. If someone is having a bad day, they may very easily get road rage and do something stupid. Yes I'm an engineer, but I don't need to be one to know what happens in a collision of those relatively sized masses. I am going about 18 mph in a 45 right now; it probably isn't possible, but I figure if I can get up to 25 mph then it won't be such a big deal anymore.

Wow Jur, still riding after being hit twice! It's like swimming again after surviving a shark attack ;)

Horses for courses, and why not let each individual rider decide what's best for themselves.

I prefer sidewalks & dedicated cycle paths for the following reasons:
- I want to be as far away from cars & the fumes as I can be
- It's legal to ride on the sidewalks where I live
- I use a bell to warn pedestrians I'm coming, and if necessary am prepared to venture on to grass to avoid them
- It's not a race for me, as I cycle for pleasure

Anyone who regularly ride at speeds above 20 mph should be on the road not the sidewalks, but at speeds less than that, it comes down to personal preference.

Wow Jur, still riding after being hit twice! It's like swimming again after surviving a shark attack ;)
Those were minor hits, I didn't even come off. But I have been missed narrowly many times. A very close catastrophic one was when a 4x4 almost t-boned me, he slammed on the brakes when he saw me, the 4x4 skidded but I kept my cool and just swerved at the last instant.

But yeah, cycling on the sidewalk is just fine as long as you're aware of the dangers that it poses, and handle those dangers.

As itsahobby mentioned, in some parts of the world, riding on the footpath/sidewalk/pavement is legal. If it is legal, does that change anybody's opinion?

Not mine. :) If I deem footpath riding as a necessary alternative, and am caught doing it, I am willing to argue with the cops about it. Not the judge though.

And legal or not, the hazards it poses don't change.

20 MPH is often deadly if you are moving that fast and collide (not just fall), or if something moving that fast hits you.

It is legal to ride on the sidewalk where I live, except as posted.
The speed limit is 10 MPH on the sidewalk, I often go slower.
I ride on dedicated bikes paths about 95% of the time, and on the sidewalk about 5%.

I do not, and will not ride in traffic. I have the right to, but I am not going to endanger myself, and slow down others like the "Buick from hell" just to help the purists make a point.

I try to avoid sidewalks most of the time but when I do ride on them, I ride in a way that does not force pedestrians to change their walking pace. I don't want them to avoid me anyway, they may jump in MY direction if I ring my bell at them.

Yesterday, I tried to find a sidewalk route for my wife to get from our flat to the subway (I have my own road-based route) but in the end, I realised that sidewalks are really much more dangerous. Example: the sidewalk would suddenly become this narrow 1-foot-wide pavement next to a huge DRAIN, with a hump in the concrete where a tree root had burst through.

I'll teach her to ride on the road, I think.

...
We're lucky here in Oz, drivers are less agressive.....

Interestingly, only your region gets a bicycling mention:

http://studyinaustralia.gov.au/Sia/en/LivingInAustralia/Lifestyle

Here's a boring story for you.

South London

I often have the temerity to ride a 20 metre bit of pavement to avoid going a kilometre round the houses ( block ). One day a couple of Constables see me and demand I dismount. I very politely point out that there are no pedestrians and I'm cycling at walking pace. "Sorry Sir that makes no difference, it's illegal". So I cheekily say, "Off the record! Don't you think it's a bit of a waste of your time to have to deal with such a trivial offence?". I think he warms to my impertinence and replies, "Half of what we do is a waste of time!". Apart from this gross underestimation it was certainly big of him.

I just realised that I broke my verbal contract and have just put our discourse 'on the record'. :o

Must have been that Hammerhead you were riding Nigel!

Snafu I wousln't ride Tango Tim on the pavements (sidewalks in American) and blind them with your bling machine! :D

Must have been that Hammerhead you were riding Nigel!

It was my Brompton actually. I feel less conspicuous on the Brom.

Hey Mulleady, do you remember last month, after Karl and Ian left us in Hyde Park, we did a 30 metre pavement detour to save going the long way round to Paddington; aren't we a couple of irresponsible scallywags. :thumb:

'Cycling on pavements is prohibited by Section 35 of The Highways Act 1980. The Act provides that it is an offence for a person to wilfully ride upon any footpath. Any such person found committing this offence is liable to pay a fine in addition to any damages for injury caused to another person.'

It was my Brompton actually. I feel less conspicuous on the Brom.

Hey Mulleady, do you remember last month, after Karl and Ian left us in Hyde Park, we did a 30 metre pavement detour to save going the long way round to Paddington; aren't we a couple of irresponsible scallywags. :thumb:

'Cycling on pavements is prohibited by Section 35 of The Highways Act 1980. The Act provides that it is an offence for a person to wilfully ride upon any footpath. Any such person found committing this offence is liable to pay a fine in addition to any damages for injury caused to another person.'

:D:speedy::speedy:

Why wouldn't you just push the bike for a measly 35m detour?

More fun riding :D

Why wouldn't you just push the bike for a measly 35m detour?

I think it's being the evil spawn of satan that we are; well it's really just keeping up appearances. :bike2: