Ive been watching the TDF for many years now and Ive reached a point where I need to vent.

1. Phill is just too condecending to Paul. Paul seems like a really nice guy, but he should ***** slap phill. I would pay money to see it.

2. Phill may speak great french and German, but when it comes to spanish, he needs some work. In particular, the surname "Martinez" has the emphasis on the second vowel not the third.:notamused:
Second, The Spanish (from Spain) pronounce their C's with a lisp, but Hispanic riders from the Americas,(america, South America, Mexico, Cuba etc) dont.:twitchy:

so if anyone has a direct line to Phil, please pass on my concerns

Rant off.

Let me get him on the bat-phone for you....

^^^ :lol:

Neither can Paul. It is pronounced "Anhell" not "Angle!" But I have to say that watching the Giro every year on satellite that the Italian announcers are no better at pronouncing names in any language other than a "Romance" language.

Well in my opinnion their spanish isnt that bad. At least they try to say the stuff the best they can. I bet you might have problems with some Hindi or some Malay last name with 30 vowels and 15 consonants all together. I bet a mislip letter pronunciation wont help at all :P

The only complain i have is that in versus.com they said that BAHAMONTES was 80 years old? well the last name is BAHAMONDES!!!!! What I think is that they mispelled it because a D in spanish and a T in english tend to sound similar when spelling stuff with a spanish accent.

TOMATO - TOMATOES :P

At least they try and are worried somehow of how to pronunciate last names and names correctly, I give them credit for that. Regarding your mislip rule thing... :D is all i can say about it :) una CE es una CE allá, aquí y en la quebrada del ají!

Thanks

Yeah, one of my pet peeves is that sports announcers don't seem to take the time to learn how to pronounce the last names of well-known players. I don't expect them to speak all the languages but if a rider or a baseball (my other favorite sport) player is a famous pro I think they ought to at least take the time to learn how the person pronounces his own name. The only excuse I can think of is that they are intentionally pronouncing the names using English phonetics thinking that it will be less confusing to us idiots.

I despise the way all sports announcers say Gutierrez. For God's sake, it's not Gooty-Air-Ez. ESPN's Jon Miller is the only guy that knows how to pronounce latin names.

Well, we could go back to the 70's when the Ijsboerke Ice Cream (http://www.ijsboerke.be/en/B2C/ijsboerke-thuis-in-ijs.html) company was a team sponsor. Now there's a name that just rolls off your tongue. :p

Well in my opinnion their spanish isnt that bad. At least they try to say the stuff the best they can. I bet you might have problems with some Hindi or some Malay last name with 30 vowels and 15 consonants all together. I bet a mislip letter pronunciation wont help at all :P

The only complain i have is that in versus.com they said that BAHAMONTES was 80 years old? well the last name is BAHAMONDES!!!!! What I think is that they mispelled it because a D in spanish and a T in english tend to sound similar when spelling stuff with a spanish accent.

TOMATO - TOMATOES :P

At least they try and are worried somehow of how to pronunciate last names and names correctly, I give them credit for that. Regarding your mislip rule thing... :D is all i can say about it :) una CE es una CE allá, aquí y en la quebrada del ají!

Thanks

Two points
1. It is not Hindi or Malay. It is Spanish and Spanish (not Basque or Catalan) is one of the easiest languages to pronounce correctly. With only a little bit of effort one could learn to say all the names of the Spanish racers in the TdF correctly. Sure there are regional differences within Spain. But having lived in Andalucia for two years and speaking Castellano Spanish, I learned that the basics will work fine.
2. It is Bahamontes. Check out the official Spanish language Vuelta website here
http://www.lavuelta.com/04/espanol/historia/57clasi.asp?a=1957&s=clasi&t=clasificaciones&e=17
Unless the organizers of the race (and every cycling history site around - English, French, Italian and Spanish versions) got it wrong, it is Bahamontes.

"and you cant wright english..."

What region of Spain should he use when he says "Chipotle"?

:lol::lol::lol:

That would be extreme western Spain (or the region now known as Mexico but formerly "belonging" to Spain). However, the word itself is from the Nahuatl indigenous language and is pronounced various ways by Spanish speakers in Mexico (or so days wiki).

That is why I also wonder if these European commentators are screwing me up. Watch MotoGp and you here YamERHa, DuCatey and Hon-DER. Phil and the gang were saying Tom Bone-in until about a year ago. Then it's Boon-in. Did Boonen straighten them out?

That is why I also wonder if these European commentators are screwing me up. Watch MotoGp and you here YamERHa, DuCatey and Hon-DER. Phil and the gang were saying Tom Bone-in until about a year ago. Then it's Boon-in. Did Boonen straighten them out?

he probably showed up in a cocaine induced rage and they were scared straight soon after.

he probably showed up in a cocaine induced rage and they were scared straight soon after.

:roflmao:

In that case I'd have to say that Phil can't speak English either. Have you heard how he pronounces some of the Australians names? Clearly it's not in the appropriate regional accent. Same goes for the names of riders from different parts of the UK, Canada and the US.

Les entiendo perfectamente, no estoy seguro cual es el problema aqui? :D

Les entiendo perfectamente, no estoy seguro cual es el problema aqui? :D
EL problema? :rolleyes:

Edit: As stated below, I humbly correct on this irregular Spanish noun.:o

t. Same goes for the names of riders from different parts US.
Hmm, interesting indeed. Care to give an example of a US rider on the tour whose name is pronounced differently in different parts of the U.S.?

Strange as it may seem to Americans, the rest of the world is not as familiar with the Spanish language. Phil and Paul are English. In England we tend to be much more familiar with French, German and Italian. Spanish comes a distant 5th. When Spanish eventually becomes the official language of America, perhaps the Brits will be forced to learn it - but by then, the USA may no longer be the pre-eminent superpower and we'll have to learn something else...

Hmm, interesting indeed. Care to give an example of a US rider on the tour whose name is pronounced differently in different parts of the U.S.?

Man, you definitely need to get out of Wyoming once in a while.

This Wikipedia article should help you. (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/North_American_English_regional_phonology)

Les entiendo perfectamente, no estoy seguro cual es el problema aqui?


EL problema? :rolleyes:

Sí, EL problema :rolleyes: :rolleyes:

It always bugs me, as a castellano aficionado, that Phil pronounces Alejandro as if it were Alezandro.

Ijsboerke Ice Cream? Should read: Ijsboerke Ijsroom
Ijs = Ice
Boerke= Farmer
Rather appropriate name if you know Dutch!

Man, you definitely need to get out of Wyoming once in a while.

This Wikipedia article should help you. (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/North_American_English_regional_phonology)
In the context of this thread I asked if you could give an example of an American racer on the Tour whose name is pronounced differently by American race announcers. I'm not takling about Billy redneck or Bobby blueneck who might do so at the local watering hole.

Well except for Craig Hummer that is ;).

And yes I have gotten out of Wyoming just a bit:

1952-1974...................Laramie WY
1974...........................Pensacola FL
1974...........................Aurora CO
1975...........................USS Coral Sea....Western Pacific deployment
1976...........................Miramar CA
1977...........................Cecil Field FL
1977...........................USS Franklin D Roosevelt....Mediterranean deployment
1978...........................Miramar CA
1978-1981...................Oxon Hill MD
1981-1983...................Rota Spain
1983-1984...................Monterey CA
1985-1986...................Seoul Korea
1986...........................Pearl Harbor HI
1987...........................USS Coronado
1988...........................USS Cleveland
1988- 1989..................Kaneohe HI
1989...........................San Francisco CA
1989-1990...................Monterey CA
1990-1992...................Munich Germany
1992-1994...................Colorado Springs CO
1994-present...............Laramie WY.

Strange as it may seem to Americans, the rest of the world is not as familiar with the Spanish language. Phil and Paul are English. In England we tend to be much more familiar with French, German and Italian. Spanish comes a distant 5th. When Spanish eventually becomes the official language of America, perhaps the Brits will be forced to learn it - but by then, the USA may no longer be the pre-eminent superpower and we'll have to learn something else...

Actually a very witty post!

But, go to almost any tourist spot in Spain and you will find a bunch of Brits there. Heck the small town I lived in for two years (near Jerez) even had an English language school staffed by Brit teachers (who I might add were very nice folks).

Plus they drink enough Spanish sherry in the UK that they should intuitively know how to pronounce Spanish. :)

Sí, EL problema :rolleyes: :rolleyes:

I humbly stand corrected. Lo siento mucho.

In the context of this thread I asked if you could give an example of an American racer on the Tour whose name is pronounced differently by American race announcers.

American announcers? This is the Phil Liggett thread.

All I stated was that if there is a expectation that announcers (Phil Liggett) must pronoun Spanish names in the appropriate regional accent, then there should also be the same expectation for riders from English speaking countries. Unless we all can agree on a time period to establish residency, I'm going with place of birth. Therefore:

George Hincapie, born in Queens, NYC, must be pronounced with a really thick New York accent.
Danny Pate, born in Colorado Springs, CO, must be pronounced the way you would.
Christian Vandevelde, born in Lemont, IL, must be pronounced with a Chicago accent.
Will Frischkorn, born in Charlottesville, VA, must be pronounced in Southern Vernacular (non tidewater).
Levi Leipheimer, born in Montana, must be pronounced they way you would.
Tyler Hamilton, born in Massachusetts, must not be pronounced with anything that sounds close to the letter "R".
Greg LeMond, born is southern California, must be pronounced in the standard "Valley Girl" manner.
Floyd Landis, born in PA, must be pronounced like... like they way they did in the movie "Witness". It can't be too difficult considering a Russian ballerina pulled it off.
Who's left? Oh, yes... Lance Armstrong, born in Plano, TX, in this case has to be pronounced like one was doing a George Bush impersonation. Come on, everyone's got it down by now.

Fair is fair. If regional accents are to be taken into account, then regional accents are to be taken into account.

Uncle. ;)

Tyler Hamilton, born in Massachusetts, must not be pronounced with anything that sounds close to the letter "R".




That's "Tylah Hamilton" to you! Perfectly natural. :D

Uncle. ;)

Don't give up. I need the competition to keep me sharp.



That's "Tylah Hamilton" to you! Perfectly natural.

I'm going with "Tylah Hamiltun" or maybe the full "Tylah Hamitun" myself.



We should get the cast of the Sopranos to do a pronunciation guide for the Italian races.

Don't give up. I need the competition to keep me sharp.


Okay. :thumb:

You said, "American announcers? This is the Phil Liggett thread."

But you were the first to bring Americans up in the thread where you said, "Same goes for the names of riders from different parts of the UK, Canada and the US." I was simply extending the logic (:lol:) of the thread. :innocent:

But I do see your point. I have heard English speaking announcers say LeMond's name Lemmund and in at least a couple of instances I have heard Levi Leipheimer pronounced Levee (by David Duffield) and his last name Leaphymer (by the guys who made that hour long thing on Trek bikes last year).


But I still maintain that pronouncing most Spanish names is pretty simple. And if that is not the case they (the announcers) of all the names in the biggest race of the year could set aside some time to learn to pronounce the names correctly. Heck most of them they will be saying for several years and in several races.

Too bad Sports Illustrated doesn't do this http://sportsillustrated.cnn.com/cycling/1999/tour_de_france/news/1999/07/03/name_guide/ anymore.

Or perhaps they could turn to this website http://bdsteel.tripod.com/EspanolSpanish/spanishpron.htm for an intro to Spanish pronunciation.

RawkeeMountinMurlyn. :D

Sí, EL problema :rolleyes: :rolleyes:

It always bugs me, as a castellano aficionado, that Phil pronounces Alejandro as if it were Alezandro.

Today Alejandro turned Italian and became Alessandro.

Strange as it may seem to Americans, the rest of the world is not as familiar with the Spanish language. Phil and Paul are English. In England we tend to be much more familiar with French, German and Italian. Spanish comes a distant 5th. When Spanish eventually becomes the official language of America, perhaps the Brits will be forced to learn it - but by then, the USA may no longer be the pre-eminent superpower and we'll have to learn something else...

Phil trashes French just as badly, mispronouncing team names. Ahgri-tubble anyone? It's his job and he should have enough respect for the participants to pronounce their names correctly. To me it's just English arrogance as expressed in your post as well. Maybe you should learn Hindi, this is the language spoken by those acquiring most of what used to be British anyway.

The all time classic English commentator-mangling-a-jonny-foreigner-name was a world cup or so ago. Mick McCarthy, who despite having been the Republic of Ireland coach is really a Yorkshire man, pronounced every single name in his think Yorkshire accent. My favourite was Fernaando Mory-entees. Glorious!

You guys are luck to have Liggett and Sherwen. Duffers over on Eurosport is often worse, and loves to ramble on. Sean Kelly is not known for accurate pronunciation either.....

I watched a week of the last Giro on Eurosport, I'd take Sean Kelly's commentary over both Liggett and Sherwen any day. You are right about his pronunciation, it is just as bad.