General Cycling Discussion - How the *@!&$*# did this happen?!

I'm new here, so let me know if this is in the wrong place!

I'm taking apart one of my bikes because i want to paint it. Took me three weeks to get the back wheel off (stupid stripped nut. filed the whole thing off), and when i did, i discovered that the chain managed to loop itself THROUGH the frame. I have NO idea how this could have happened. After running through all the curse words in existence, i was hoping you guys could tell me how i could possibly remove it. Its like one of those stupid wire puzzles from cracker barrel or something.
Looks like this:
http://i9.photobucket.com/albums/a98/NicoleDanielle/wtf.jpg
sorry for the crappy pic, it's 10:30 and dark out.

Any idea how it happened, how to reverse it, or how to remove the chain entirely? I have minimal tools, and live in a stupid town in the middle of nowhere, so taking it to a bike shop is unfortunately out of the question.

Of course the chain is looped through the frame. It has to be in order to track the cassette and chainwheels properly. You just need to get a chain tool like this one: http://www.parktool.com/products/detail.asp?cat=5&item=CT-3 or this one: http://www.parktool.com/products/detail.asp?cat=5&item=CT-5

swear to God it wasn't like that when i started.... Unless i'm just losing it.

I thought maybe you were just pulling our legs off with this one. :rolleyes:

I could have sworn it wasn't like that when I started. Cause I almost had the damn thing off, but the wheel wouldn't give me enough wiggle room. And uh, any chance wal mart would have one of those? It's the only thing we've got here, and i don't have time to go anywhere else for several weeks.

It doesn't look like it goes through the frame when the bike is together, but it does. It's the only way to get it assembled correctly.

may have to order that one online, they don't have them at the walmart around here, you sure you don't have an LBS somewhere near? google your home town

That's the way bikes are. You have to unlink a chain to get it on or off the bike. Trace the path of the chain on one of your other bikes that you mentioned and see. You'll find that it loops through and interlocks with the triangle formed by the right-hand seat stay, the right-hand chain stay, and the seat tube.

By the way, have you ever seen some of the neat new tools that have been advertised in the past couple of years for dealing with stripped nuts and and bolts and screw heads? Check Craftsman tools from Sears.

swear to God it wasn't like that when i started.... Unless i'm just losing it.

Not losing it, probably tired and too close to the problem.:thumb:

Do you have an REI membership? They sell chain tools mail order.

This is a cute thread. :)

Yes, a chain tool is what you need. I know it's frustrating, (I've had THOSE nights) but maybe if you take a break (since it's late) and get some sleep you'll be able to focus better. You are pretty excited about getting that wheel off but you won't get it painted tonight so don't let it bother you. Tomorrow you will be fresh and be able to research for a chain tool easier.

Be sure to keep us posted on the paint! :thumb:

Walmart sells a chain tool, it's $4 or so. That's where I got mine.

Also check if there's a master link, where you can pry the little clips off and just take it apart- not sure if all chains are like that or not.

You COULD leave the chain on there and work around it. Maybe wrap the chain in aluminum foil to protect it.

The Walmarts here in Dallas carry them. They have a large line of Bell products such as helmets, chains, tubes, tool bags and a small selection of bike tires. The bikes are over by the toys section.
Ernest

It's called a chain stay for a reason.

If you remove chain, you will need to put it back on after you paint. I'd leave it on unless it's old and worn out.

Sort of like a dog.... Good chain, sit, stay.

You might not need a chain tool.

Carefully examine every single link of your chain. If you find one that's different from the rest, it's a master link. Use a needle nose pliers or something to release the snap clip and the chain will come apart.

Getting the chain tool is one thing, using it is another. This could develop into a fascinating story of mechanical frustration judging by the fact the rear wheel took three weeks to get off, and had to be butchered to do so.

Good meaning advice is one thing, reality is another. I say wait the time required for the opportunity to take the bike to a bike shop to get the chain off, then put back on again after the paint job is done.

Thanks, guys. Guess it just was one of those days. Good thing i'm getting my practice out on my cheap bike. haha. Never actually taken the WHOLE bike apart before.

I've decided the darn thing was sent from some karmic abyss to reprimand me for... something or another. The tubes are continually going flat, and the whole thing's got a lovely wobble to it. It was my first grown-up bike, so i didn't really know what i was getting myself into. I got so mad that somewhere over the course of a few weeks i may have hit the rear fork just a teensy bit with a hammer... repeatedly... wasn't aiming for that, was aiming for the nut holding the wheel on, but i'm not exactly a champion marksman.

Thanks, guys. Guess it just was one of those days. Good thing i'm getting my practice out on my cheap bike. haha. Never actually taken the WHOLE bike apart before.

I've decided the darn thing was sent from some karmic abyss to reprimand me for... something or another. The tubes are continually going flat, and the whole thing's got a lovely wobble to it. It was my first grown-up bike, so i didn't really know what i was getting myself into. I got so mad that somewhere over the course of a few weeks i may have hit the rear fork just a teensy bit with a hammer... repeatedly... wasn't aiming for that, was aiming for the nut holding the wheel on, but i'm not exactly a champion marksman.

Marksmanship with a hammer is the same as with a firearm, it is only achieved through practice… But, I will convey one bit of wisdom, that was conveyed to me, and also learned through twenty years of being a professional mechanic, on every thing from farm equipment, to motorcycles, to semi-trucks and trailers.

“Always use the right tool for the right job“… if you don’t know what the right tool is; do some research, and find out which tool most other people use. Most people, can take apart almost anything with an adjustable wrench, two screwdrivers, and a hammer, but it’s not always pretty…:) and it’s a lot harder work than it would be with the right tools.

There is a wealth of information here… http://www.parktool.com/

Yeah, the darn thing was stripped and wouldn't budge an inch. I actually broke the tip of my socket wrench off on it. I filed edges back onto it, and it snapped my wrench. I ended up filing the whole nut off, which took freakin forever. Not sure what sort of tools you're supposed to use for removing stripped nuts, but i tried everything i could find on the internet, aside from a blow torch and a metal saw. And a nutbuster. Our hardware store hadn't heard of them.
So in the end, i filed and tapped it with the hammer over and over. Worked in the end, but it wasn't pretty. Or fun.

I certainly admire your determination. :thumb:

Just reinforces what I say. Better still, save your efforts and money and buy a new bike.

I have a simple quick way to get your chain off, just use bolt cutters. Problem solved.

Just reinforces what I say. Better still, save your efforts and money and buy a new bike.

I have two other bikes, actually. I'm just using this one to practice painting. It's a nice little cruiser, and cruisers have a place in my life too. Besides, she's got sentimental value. :.P

Ok, bought one of those little tools from wal mart, and it took like a half hour (cause i'm a weakling, i guess) to get the chain apart, but I'm DONE! :.) Goodbye, nineties teal crackle paint. I'll see you in hell!

Thanks for all the support, guys! Hopefully i'll be ready to primer tomorrow, although at the rate this is going it may be several years. Anyone have painting tips for a beginner? I've read lots of online tutorials and stuff, but i'm still a bit nervous. i plan on using a rattle can, just because i won't have access to a paint sprayer for a couple of weeks and i want to get this one DONE.

OMG! This is now one of my favorite threads. The OP's frustration, genuine puzzlement and enthusiasm to take on a challenging task that was above her understanding, (we have ALL been there). I'm also very glad to see that a lot of regular BFers explained it without putting her down.
Good stuff!

Now, nicoledanielle, I learned more about how a bike works by painting my frame. The painting part was actually easy. It was the disassembling and reassembling that had me scratching my head. I had to refer to the Bicycle Mechanics forum here, sheldonbrown.com and parktool.com to get everything back in working order. Keep after it and please post pictures when you are done.

OMG! This is now one of my favorite threads.

It is my new favorite thread also.

I have two other bikes, actually. I'm just using this one to practice painting. It's a nice little cruiser, and cruisers have a place in my life too. Besides, she's got sentimental value. :.P



That is great to hear. Don't ever get rid of that bike. I wish I still had every bike I've ever owned.
(That goes for guitars also. ;) )

Paint it 40 times, switch every part, ride it until the wheels fall off, just keep it. There is one exception
to this rule. You may give it away to someone who needs it more than you. Enjoy the painting and
post pics here when you are done.

...
Anyone have painting tips for a beginner? I've read lots of online tutorials and stuff, but i'm still a bit nervous. i plan on using a rattle can, just because i won't have access to a paint sprayer for a couple of weeks and i want to get this one DONE.

If you have a power sander to get the old paint off, it will make your job easier, (i.e.- Black & Decker Mouse). Also, use a Dremel tool with a sanding head on it to get into the tight areas.

Once you've got it all sanded off, liberally use some mineral spirits on a rag to clean the metal.

Now for painting...

Start with a coat or two of self-etching primer. Once that dries start painting. There are two things you want to stay away from when using rattle-can paint: Yellow colors and glossy finish.

Yellow is challenging, even for professional painters and unless you have a "clean-space" and a frame baking oven, you'll have a hard time getting a glossy finish to come out right.

So stick with a matte or semi-matte finish and put on at least three coats of paint.

This is just from what I've learned in painting several of my own frames.

Wow... this has gotta go down as a BF classic!

Welcome Noob, and thanks for the laugh! :D

*curtsy* :.) I admit it is kind of funny/stupid now that i'm not so embarrassed about the whole affair. I did always wonder why it was called a chainstay.... But you guys have been very helpful, and didn't make me feel like a complete idiot (just a partial one) and I really do appreciate that! It's hard being a newbie, you know.

I bought some heavy-duty stripper for refinishing cabinets a while back, and i think i read that'd be okay to use on my bike? And I own a mouse, but dremel I do not. Was thinking about wrapping the end of a toothbrush or knife or something in sandpaper so i could get in the teensy places (not that my bike's too ornate, not really many fiddly bits to worry with). And no gloss at all? Or would it work out okay to put a gloss sealant on it?

*curtsy* :.) I admit it is kind of funny/stupid now that i'm not so embarrassed about the whole affair. I did always wonder why it was called a chainstay.... That's not really the reason it's called a "stay". From Merriam-Webster Unabridged, a stay is...

1 a : something that serves as a prop : BRACE, SUPPORT <special lid stays and pneumatic dampers hold the lid open -- National Stamp News> b : someone or something that supports or helps : an object of reliance

or perhaps...

2 a : a guy rope b : a tie piece to hold parts together or to contribute stiffness in engineering construction -- compare STRUT

It's a stay, and it runs alongside the path of the chain, so "chain stay" is a good name for it. Another stay runs up from the wheel hub mount to the top of the seat tube, and it's called (surprise!) the "seat stay".

...
I bought some heavy-duty stripper for refinishing cabinets a while back, and i think i read that'd be okay to use on my bike? And I own a mouse, but dremel I do not. Was thinking about wrapping the end of a toothbrush or knife or something in sandpaper so i could get in the teensy places (not that my bike's too ornate, not really many fiddly bits to worry with). And no gloss at all? Or would it work out okay to put a gloss sealant on it?

I think the stripper should be fine. You probably want to be sure to clean it off once the paint it gone, (I'm not really sure how corrosive it is). A toothbrush or even a pencil with sandpaper taped around it will easily get into the tight spots. I've heard of some folks having no problems with getting a glossy finish with spray paint. I've just never had any luck getting a good looking shine. With glossy paint and sealant, there always seems to be a bit of a texture in it, (mostly from dust, I think, since I have to paint on my back porch). Being a first-timer, you'll likely have fewer issues with a matte finish.

Keep us posted and as I mentioned before, show us some pics when you're done.

Putting aside the patronising approach because you're apparently female...

A dremel or mouse is not a good idea to remove the paint. You will end up with flat spots that will show up in the final finish.

Use the paint remover probably three times -- the first to get rid of the clear finish, the second to get through the colour coat and the third to remove the primer. If there are decals, you will need to remove them separately with a solvent before you start with the paint remover.

You will need to get down to base metal if the frame is badly chipped, as likely. The paint remover is by far the best means to get paint out of odd corners. A bit of primer left on is OK.

Wash off the paint remover with soapy water and dry immedately. Sand back to key the base metal and old primer with something like a 400 or finer sandpaper by hand. Wash off the dust with a solvent and if you want to do a really good job, get some masking tape and use the stick side on pieces to rub over the frame to pick up remaining dust before you apply the first primer coat.

Spray lightly and with many coats. Read the instructions on the can... if they say recoat within a certain period, do it, otherwise leave it for the recommended period. Light coats will avoid paint runs. Concentrate on getting coverage in hard angles and other nooks.

Once the the primer has built up to a consistent deep colour, leave the bike for the longest reommended drying period on the can, then sand back lightly with something like 1200 grit paper. This will take the primer down on the high bits but leave it full thickness on the low bits. Wash off again with soapy water and dry and go over with the masking tape again. Try absolutely to avoid handling the bike with your bare hands/fingers because the oils from your skin will remain on frame and may mar the finish.

Lightly applied colour coats also will assist you to get a deep, lustrous (shiny) finish, which you can add to with half a dozen clear coats. The first couple of colour coats will look patchy and not the right colour, but don't be tempted to go over with a thick coat because you *will* run the paint and ruin the finish.

When you have finished painting, leave the bike for a fortnight before doing reassembly work. Trust me on this, particularly with rattle-can paint. You want it hardened, not soft and easy to scratch and chip. Leave it out in the sun as much as possible so the heat helps speed up the process.

From your postings so far, I think you are too impatient to do the job properly. I hope you prove me wrong, if only for the bike's sake.

Good points, Rowan.

We will have to be on opposite sides about the mouse & Dremel. If you keep the tool moving, you can avoid flat spots. ;) I also should have mentioned that after using the tools for the biggest part of paint removal, you have to finish out the sanding by hand. I've never used a chemical stripper, so I can't really offer up much advise there.

She did mention that she has a couple of other bikes, so there should be no rush in reassembling the bike. Thanks for mentioning that though, I had forgotten about the nasty scars I put on one bike that I got impatient with.

One other thought... use a long piece of dowel inserted in the seat tube to handle the bike while painting. Obviously, the dowel might be too thin, so build up to about the thickness of the inside of the seat tube with electrical insultation, and (you will obviously like this) shove it hard down into the seat tube.

This will also mask the seat tube from paint getting down into it (which you would have to get out again after the job's finished). Use rolled up sheets of Letter-size paper and insert into the bottom bracket and let the paper unroll slightly in there... this will protect the threads from paint build-up which otherwise will make refitting the BB impossible.

Do the same rolled up paper trick on the head tube.

Second best thread ever! (second only to THIS ONE (http://www.bikeforums.net/showthread.php?t=136161&page=2))

Just reinforces what I say. Better still, save your efforts and money and buy a new bike.

Absolutely wrong. She is learning more about her bikes doing this than buying a new bike ever will teach her.


I have a simple quick way to get your chain off, just use bolt cutters. Problem solved.

The problem with using the bolt cutters is that she won't have any ideal how to put the new chain together.

I would suggest buying a book like "Zinn and the Art of Road Bike Maintenance" in helping you work on your bike. It has good detail and also tells you what tools you'll need for which project/component.

The problem with using the bolt cutters is that she won't have any ideal how to put the new chain together.

If there is one thing about cycling, there are no absolutes.

But your statement here is moot... with or without bolt cutters and a chaintool, she won't have any idea of how to put a new chain together anyway. Remember, tearing something down to its bare frame is much, much easier than putting all the pieces back together again and making it work.

If she is really clever, she will look up www.sheldonbrown.com and www.parktool.com as already suggested.

I'm new here, so let me know if this is in the wrong place!



Not particularly the wrong place, but I would also suggest you peruse the “bicycle mechanics” forum as well. They have a wealth of knowledge and experience with issues such as, rounded off axle nuts, stuck seat posts, striped bolts,replacing chains, and repainting frames.

The “classic and vintage” forum also has an abundance of helpful people when it comes to repainting frames, and such, but they do tend to be a bit more picky, or purists if you will, about the quality of the finished paint job.

When you get ready to put your bike back together, I think I would seek out the “bicycle mechanics” forum if I were you… just a thought. Best of luck. :)

I don't see how that could possibly happen assuming that the bike was rideable before you started working on it. I thought you were joking with this thread, but you've stated emphatically that you aren't. You'll have to take the chain apart with a chain tool, of course.

Honestly, "monk" did you really think that after two pages of posting no one had pointed that out to me?
And thanks for the advice Rowan, and whoever else has suggested those sites. I actually checked out both of those places before I started the project a couple of months ago, and have used both in taking it apart thus far as well. It seems that no matter what term i put in google in regards to bikes, those two were really the only ones that had anything helpful.
As far as being impatient.... Yeah, i've been trying to get started on it for several months now, but has taken me a while to get the right tools and figure out how to get the damn thing apart. Every single piece has caused problems, just because it doesn't look much like those used in the online instructions and bike shops and my dad are both far away; I'm in school and working right now, so i don't have the time to take it to either of those places just yet, and when I do my car will be too full. So yeah, i'm a bit tired of this by now. That doesn't mean I'll rush the paint job, though.
As far as taking care for the bike's sake... it's a '93 Murray Rallye cruiser that cost $200 in its prime, and its prime had long since passed when I received it. not much need to step lightly here:
http://i9.photobucket.com/albums/a98/NicoleDanielle/P8170044.jpg

nicoledanielle... I only have a few more things to say… because by your own admittance, you are new to working on bikes, an BikeForums.

1. Do the paint job to the best of your current ability… if you don’t like how it turns out, you can always repaint it again at a later time. Very very few people ever get their first project done the way they want to… it’s called a learning curve, you can gain far more knowledge from mistakes and problems, than easy successes.

2. Try not to feel like you are being rushed… if you have a timetable it is your own. Don’t do the project like you are going to be graded on it after it is done… the only one who will truly care is you, but that is the important thing.

3. Try to have fun… Bike repair, and restoration, or modification, can be a great hobby, along with riding.

And last, but not least… welcome to Bikeforums. :thumb:

By the way… you are going to need to split the chain, to get it off of the chain stay. :D :roflmao2: :)

nicoledanielle...Just a serious side note of safety, having seen your bike… because your bike is single speed with a coaster brake, I would spend the extra money on a new chain if you decide to split the old one. If you are not confident in installing a new one, have a local bike shop do it. On a coaster brake system, you don’t want a chain failure of any kind. You need that chain there every time you kick your pedals backward, or you have no brakes.

Some people, including myself, install a front cable operated brake, to ad braking power, and as a backup for the rear brake in case the chain breaks… not a fun thing to have happen.

You can get by without a front brake, people have for seventy five years, or more, but always make sure the chain is at the right tightness, in good condition, and that the anchor bar for the coaster brake is attached to the chain stay.

Just a thought… I'm done now... have fun.

I can tell you how but you'll need a magician, a little person and some baby lotion

On a related note...

Recently I was hanging up the laundry, and one of the things to hang was a sweat band. I unhooked the clothesline, put it through the sweatband, reattached it, and then clipped the sweat band on in the middle of the rest of the laundry. I watched the wife unhooking the laundry, and I saw her frown when she tried to unclip it, but it only took her a few seconds to realize what her too-much-time-on-his-hands husband had done.

QUOTE=nicoledanielle;7043955]I could have sworn it wasn't like that when I started. Cause I almost had the damn thing off, but the wheel wouldn't give me enough wiggle room. And uh, any chance wal mart would have one of those? It's the only thing we've got here, and i don't have time to go anywhere else for several weeks.[/QUOTE]



Yes


Suggest you spend some time reading here (http://www.parktool.com/repair/)[

Thanks for the great advice, bionicycle. I think I will wait and get a new chain and have my dad attach it next time I go home. I never really thought about coaster brakes putting excess stress on the chain, but i'll definitely get it done by someone who knows what they're doing! And I'd actually really like adding handlebar brakes, because switching between that one and my others is difficult. There's always that moment of panic when I reach for the brakes and they aren't there, and its definitely a safety issue for fast stopping (cause it takes me a while to remember to backpedal instead). Is that expensive? I'm definitely working with a college kid budget, here.

One more thought on the painting side (as if you need any more advice). Do a search on the poster, Dr Deltron. He is the bee's knees expert on frame painting at BFs, and he started a thread here, I think, in General Discussion on it, offering a qustion-and-answer type of approach. Look it up, you might find something else there to help.

Thanks for the great advice, bionicycle. I think I will wait and get a new chain and have my dad attach it next time I go home. I never really thought about coaster brakes putting excess stress on the chain, but i'll definitely get it done by someone who knows what they're doing! And I'd actually really like adding handlebar brakes, because switching between that one and my others is difficult. There's always that moment of panic when I reach for the brakes and they aren't there, and its definitely a safety issue for fast stopping (cause it takes me a while to remember to backpedal instead). Is that expensive? I'm definitely working with a college kid budget, here.

Older cheap mountain bikes… Murray, Huffy, and others make an excellent source for front brakes, and brake levers, for big tire cruisers. The old large side pull DiaComp caliper brakes are the easiest to put on, not the greatest stopping power, but better than nothing… but, they may require a new cable, and housing to reach the higher handle bars of a cruiser. If you want to go the cheapest rout, a re-cabling kit from Bell can be found at Wal*Mart for under $8.00. If none of that is available, you will have to try your Local Bike Shop… wherever that may be.

Actually, that's perfect. I was just given an old raleigh mtb and had no idea what i would do with it (cause i just don't need one). Hurray!