Fifty Plus (50+) - Bicycling is a real pain in the neck

First of all, thanks to everyone that has helped me in all the issues of my bicycling.

When I go on long bike rides, after about 15 miles my neck starts to hurt really badly.
I find I have to look down at the road under my pedals in order to get relief.
Is this normal for most of you?
If so, what do you do so that the pain doesn't come in the first place?
It is rather painful.

My job in life is proofreading which means sitting down and looking down. On a bike it is awkward to lift the head up in order to see the road ahead of me. Will this go away in time as the neck muscles strengthen?

I suffer the same problem when I ride my DF's. I now do my recreational
riding (non-commutes) on a recumbent and find I can ride pain-free all
day long. That does not however mean you need to change to a recumbent
yourself, as many folks on this forum who are wiser about these things than I
have successfully beat the neck pain thing with stem changes and bike
adjustments and such. I just didn't have the patience to deal with all that, and I
had always thought recumbents were Cool, so that's the route that I took
to aleiviate the pains associated with cycling.

I'm confident the folks here will steer you in the right direction.

Instead of craning and twisting neck back, tuck your chin in and pull whole neck back.

Where are your handlebars in relation to your seat? Are you stretched out on the bike? If you put your elbow on the nose of the saddle and point your forearm and fingers to the stem, does the handlebar fall within an inch of your outstretched fingers?

If the answers are (a) lower, then get a stem that will raise your handlebars to at least seat level; (b) yes, then your bike might be too big for you, but you might be able to fudge a bit by moving the seat forward as well as shortening the stem; and (c) no, then a shorter (and higher) replacement stem might help overcome these basic fit issues.

Neck exercises off the bike might also be in order. If you use a computer at work, your posture may need looking at (mine is lousy, and I have issues on the right side of my neck as a result).

Shermer's Neck is not uncommon among long-distance cyclists, and was given the name by Mike Shermer who suffered badly from collapse of neck muscles on a Race Across America.

Proofreader? Magazine, newspaper or... ?

I use a stem that I can adjust to where I ride more up right.

It sure sounds to me like you have fit issues. I know in our "knee" thread you indicated you were fitted at a shop. I'm begining to wonder if they had a clue about what you were doing. All too many (based on limted direct experience and stories of others I trust) shops have folks who want to fit everyone as if they were going to be racing.

Neck pain is normal if your neck muscles are not used to holding your head up for prolonged periods of time, and or have hunched shoulders. There are really two ways to deal with it (as illustrated in part by some of the recommendations above): Work on developing stronger neck muscles or change your riding position so that you are in a more upright position. Tony, did you ever post any photos of you in your riding position? I'm more than confident that many folks here could make more specific suggestions if they could see your riding position.

Try different hand positions on the bar...........hoods, flats, curves, etc.

Or justify a new bike purchase to the significant other like a Specialized Tarmac SL with full campy record and every body geometry tid bit they have. Expalin how the $7000.00+ purchase will dramatically improve the horrendous pain in your neck.

I tried and failed miserably:(

On my Tarmac the seat-bar height is slightly larger than on my Simoncini - this makes it harder to stay looking forward on the Tarmac over a long ride particularly if I spend a lot of time in the drops. For me it just doesn't get better - it never bothered me when I was younger. I shop will typically fit you to the angle in your back and maybe (if you lucky) your flexability - not how well you can see, go figure. You may need to raise the bars and not use the drops.

Are you taking breaks by riding on the tops? You may need to do that to relieve the muscles that hold your head up when you're on the hoods or drops.

Are you trying to go too far too fast? If so, you have to realize that riding a road bike setup as a road bike requires some gradual adaptation, because with the more forward position, there is more work for the muscles that hold your head up. People should not expect to buy a road bike, hop on it and ride long distances right off the bat.

Is your helmet too low on your forehead? This forces you to lift your head up more in order to see where you're going. It's very hard on the neck. Similarly, if you happen to wear glasses, these always tend to fall too low on the nose, and like the too low helmet, it forces you to lift your head more than you would have to if you were not wearing glasses.

LBS/pro fit or no fit, are your handlebars very low? They don't have to be at saddle level, but there isn't much to be gained by having them much lower than an inch below the top of the saddle.

But all in all, it does take some fitness. I get neck pain after about 10 miles whenever I get on the bike after a long layoff.

That's exactly the problem I had. I added these handlebars and the adjustable stem. I know it looks very high, but it's quite comfortable.

I'm considering going back to a drop handlebar, but will keep it relatively high.

http://i8.photobucket.com/albums/a39/TromboneAl/Bike-1.jpg

My first thought was your fit may by off.

This is usually never an issue on a recumbent. Just saying....

Yet another recumbent suggestion.

Traditional diamond frame bikes are great, no question. The rider's view of the world on a recumbent, though, is not only much more comfortable but greatly expanded.

Sounds like a fit issue to me, too. Like I said before, you may not be able to conform to a fit that a shop provided. Sometimes you have to try different things to find out what works.
With your hands on the tops, you should be able to lift your hands and support your upper body with your core muscles.
When riding, your elbows should be bent and your shoulders relaxed. If your upper body is tense, this may lead to neck pain. Like they say, keep your shoulders out of your ears.
Over the years I have raised my bars until the top of the bar is now about 1 inch below the saddle, up from 4 inches years ago.

This is usually never an issue on a recumbent. Just saying....

Nor is it a problem sitting in a La-Z-Boy recliner while watching TV. It is also not a problem on a well-fitted drop bar road bike. You don't need a sex change operation every time you have an ache or pain. :notamused:

First road bike I got- just a couple of years ago- and I set the bars up to the same height as the saddle. The change from a mountain bike meant that I had to set it up that way to stop neck problems. Next bike and the shop set it up with the bars 3" below the saddle. I do not know if it was a year of riding with my head between my knees (That was what it felt like after 15 years on mountain biking) but my neck had got stronger- and once again- No neck pain.

Can't think of any neck exercises to help you train- but just riding the bike helped me.

One of the reasons Comfort bikes have become so popular is because of Back and Neck problems. Bicycle riding should be enjoyable and you shouldn’t have to suffer to enjoy it. If you neck doesn’t hurt sitting in a chair then a more upright position might be just what you need. It could be as simple as a adjustment on your bike but if you think about it the position you need to assume for a drop bar road bike is not one you typically use doing anything else. While that position my not bother many people you just might be one that needs to sit more upright.

If this problem has been with you for a while I would talk to my doctor or if you prefer a chiropractor and have them see if there is a medical reason you have this pain. Just a thought.

But, one of the theories of bike fitting is a 3 way balance between the weight on the butt, the weight on the legs and the weight on the hands (on the bars).

Sitting more upright puts a lot more weight on the butt - and if you do longer rides, it may be a problem.

Head position on a diamond frame bike is very unnatural. It's quite a strain to hold up all that weight out so far for so long.

Try shorter rides till you build up your neck muscles.
Higher handlebars so you don't strain so much.
A recumbent so you don't strain.

But, one of the theories of bike fitting is a 3 way balance between the weight on the butt, the weight on the legs and the weight on the hands (on the bars).

Sitting more upright puts a lot more weight on the butt - and if you do longer rides, it may be a problem.

Just look at the position you have on your Avatar. That position represents a more relaxed position for your neck and back. What ever the theory of adjusting a diamond frame might be it doesn’t seem to be working for the OP. Assuming the LBS adjusted the bike for him in the first place. I think some of us may be looking for a quick fix here. So we are looking at it differently.

I can’t read a book in bed while on my stomach because of neck strain. But I can read for hours on my back with a few pillows propping me up. May not be apples to apples but it seems reasonable considering we are making suggestions for a problem that already exists.

While struggling with neck pain last year, I read on Sheldon Brown's site that if you wear glasses (as I do) you may benefit from wearing eyeglass holders (like Croakies) that hold your glasses snug against your face. If your glasses are slipping by even a fraction of an inch while you ride, that's another incremental bit of stretching you have to do to see the road.

I know this sounds stupid. I thought it did. However, on longer rides I use Croakies now and it does make a difference.

But, one of the theories of bike fitting is a 3 way balance between the weight on the butt, the weight on the legs and the weight on the hands (on the bars).

Sitting more upright puts a lot more weight on the butt - and if you do longer rides, it may be a problem.

It might be one of the theories, but it's not really correct. You should be able to ride along with almost no weight on your hands. Supporting the body weight because of a lack of core body strength (ie, abs and back muscles) is one reason why people suffer badly from hand numbness and hunched-shoulder syndrome. It's something my and others' long-distance riding has demonstrated well.

A good saddle will always overcome butt issues, and it is reasonable that the butt takes the weight as it would any time you are sitting down. As to how the butt is conditioned to interface with the appropriate saddle is another matter altogether, and really only comes from... riding a lot.

Bike fit, however, is paramount.

I'll put it this way... I can ride a century in unpadded bike shorts and long trousers on a properly fitting fixed gear with a Brooks saddle and cowhorn bars, and have no butt, hand, neck or feet issues.

As to neck exercises, this might be a bit dramatic, but I remember a TV documentary on Nigel Mansell, former world F1 champ and Indycar driver (champ?), and his battle to keep his neck muscles in shape aftr an early-career crash broke it. He lay on the floor and arched his back so only his head and heels remained on the floor. He would hold that position for 10 seconds, then repeat, many times.

Certainly, webland has neck-strenghening exercises.

Just look at the position you have on your Avatar. That position represents a more relaxed position for your neck and back. What ever the theory of adjusting a diamond frame might be it doesn’t seem to be working for the OP. Assuming the LBS adjusted the bike for him in the first place. I think some of us may be looking for a quick fix here. So we are looking at it differently.

I can’t read a book in bed while on my stomach because of neck strain. But I can read for hours on my back with a few pillows propping me up. May not be apples to apples but it seems reasonable considering we are making suggestions for a problem that already exists.

My avatar is showing me riding my mountain bike! Not a road bike. Different fits, different purposes.

It could be fit issues, as stated. But even with a good riding position, I think most people will experience some neck strain/pain on a DF bike. In my case, I was on a ride and pinched a nerve in my neck. I finally went to the doc and he sent me to a chiropractor, who then got an MRI. Turned out I have what he describes as "3 collapsed cervical discs.) Ouch!! I was told to stay off the bike. Period. That, of course, didn't work. I stayed off for about six months, to give the injury ample time to heal. This year, so far, so good. But the chiropractor tells me that as long as I am riding, the chance for re-injury is fairly high. I do some on-bike stretching during rides, and afterwards, I use an over-the-door traction device to help stretch out the neck. It seems to help. But I'll probably end up putting the chiropractors kids through college! BTW...he said if I was going to continue riding, I should get a recumbent. At some point in the future, I probably will, once finances are a bit better. Too bad he couldn't give me a prescription for it and have the insurance company cover it!!

It could be fit issues, as stated. But even with a good riding position, I think most people will experience some neck strain/pain on a DF bike. In my case, I was on a ride and pinched a nerve in my neck. I finally went to the doc and he sent me to a chiropractor, who then got an MRI. Turned out I have what he describes as "3 collapsed cervical discs.) Ouch!! I was told to stay off the bike. Period. That, of course, didn't work. I stayed off for about six months, to give the injury ample time to heal. This year, so far, so good. But the chiropractor tells me that as long as I am riding, the chance for re-injury is fairly high. I do some on-bike stretching during rides, and afterwards, I use an over-the-door traction device to help stretch out the neck. It seems to help. But I'll probably end up putting the chiropractors kids through college! BTW...he said if I was going to continue riding, I should get a recumbent. At some point in the future, I probably will, once finances are a bit better. Too bad he couldn't give me a prescription for it and have the insurance company cover it!!


Seriously, look into that. My wife got a prescription from her neurologist for an
Eliptical Machine to enable her to exercise with MS. It saved us the cost of the
Sales Tax.

First road bike I got- just a couple of years ago- and I set the bars up to the same height as the saddle. The change from a mountain bike meant that I had to set it up that way to stop neck problems. Next bike and the shop set it up with the bars 3" below the saddle. I do not know if it was a year of riding with my head between my knees (That was what it felt like after 15 years on mountain biking) but my neck had got stronger- and once again- No neck pain.

Can't think of any neck exercises to help you train- but just riding the bike helped me.


I have a similar experience. I started into serious cycling about 8 years ago shortly after I retired. Though I was very fit with excellent core strength due to a 40 year strenuous exercise program, had both shoulder and neck pain with the bars even with the saddle. I built up my time/distance slowly and both went away. I also spent a lot of time adjusting the bikes to fit.

Over time I migrated to almost purely mountain biking and now ride with the bars almost 3" below the saddle. However, my seat to bar distance is such that my back angle is about 50 deg. above the horizontal. Forty five is considered optimum by some pros such as Ned Overend. Bar height is only one parameter that affects back angle.

Now I bike about 50% in the mountains and 50% in the flats of N Florida. I'll get neck/shoulder sourness for the first ride or two in the mountains due to the downhills I assume. When I go back to Florida, my saddle will feel uncomfortable and my hands will tingle for a few rides as I spend much more time in the saddle in Florida and use much less body English.

It takes time to adapt, especially as you get older. I now use an ultra thin saddle that 5 yeas ago I would have said would be impossible.

Anyone with a desk job, which was my situation, definitely needs a good weight training/aerobics program especially after 40. Check out the Younger Next Year thread. For me, the most important exercises for core strength/injury protection are: squats, upright rows, weighted crunches and push-ups.


Al

Thanks everyone. Yesterday, while doing my country riding after about 20 minutes into the ride my neck begins to get painful to where I have to stretch it by looking down. I did try tucking my chin as one respondent suggested but that did not help. It just might be I need to strengthen my neck.

Years ago when I was about 19 I fell off a roof onto my neck and broke it. No one was around to help. All feeling left my body from the neck down. All was peaceful. I thought, so this is how people die of a broken neck. I was ready to meet my Maker. But then the pain came. The muscles in my neck became so tense I couldn't move my neck. After some time the feeling returned to my lower body. I went to my car and went home and slept on the hard wood floor for over a month , in extreme pain, till the neck healed up. I never saw a doctor as I had no insurance anyway. Besides, they probably would have made me a paraplegic had they worked on me. Since that day I have led a very productive, very hard working life. About 30 years later a chiropracter x-rayed me and said, You broke your neck at one time!
I doubt the neck, having been broken so many years ago, would be being aggravated now by bike riding. But who knows?

Anyway, I will try the exercise that race car driver did.

Anyway, I will try the exercise that race car driver did.

You may want to google neck exercises first. The race car driver exercise sounds a little extreme/dangerous to me.

I've read that pushups or bench presses are very good for this. I'll bet that dumbbell shrugs would help, too.

Thanks everyone. Yesterday, while doing my country riding after about 20 minutes into the ride my neck begins to get painful to where I have to stretch it by looking down. I did try tucking my chin as one respondent suggested but that did not help. It just might be I need to strengthen my neck.

Years ago when I was about 19 I fell off a roof onto my neck and broke it. No one was around to help. All feeling left my body from the neck down. All was peaceful. I thought, so this is how people die of a broken neck. I was ready to meet my Maker. But then the pain came. The muscles in my neck became so tense I couldn't move my neck. After some time the feeling returned to my lower body. I went to my car and went home and slept on the hard wood floor for over a month , in extreme pain, till the neck healed up. I never saw a doctor as I had no insurance anyway. Besides, they probably would have made me a paraplegic had they worked on me. Since that day I have led a very productive, very hard working life. About 30 years later a chiropracter x-rayed me and said, You broke your neck at one time!
I doubt the neck, having been broken so many years ago, would be being aggravated now by bike riding. But who knows?

Anyway, I will try the exercise that race car driver did.

:eek::twitchy::eek::twitchy: Unfreaking believable.

Sounds like a good, typical case that would apply to every case out there. I'm convinced! I'm selling all my real bikes and getting a rowing machine on wheels. :rolleyes:

:eek::twitchy::eek::twitchy: Unfreaking believable.

Truly incredible!!

However, I think the lack of attention might be coming back to haunt Tony. Yes, I know the race car driver exercise was extreme, and probably I stated so.

But it would be worth seeing a PT or chiro again and having them give you a list of exercises to build the strength of the neck muscles. One thing you do need to do is undertake the exercises at least once under their supervision to ensure you are doing them correctly.

My neck plays up from time to time on the right side because of a car crash about 20 years ago. LIke Tony, I didn't seek treatment for it, and might live to regret that young and foolish decision.

I don't know about the experiences of others here, but of all the times I have seen doctors for orthopedic injuries, including last October, the only time any one of them did anything was in 1988 when I had surgery on my left shoulder. I've rarely had them even give good advice! This goes back to high school, then motorcycling and bicycling. If you can still function, they don't do much.
We don't know if Tony's neck pain has anything to do with his injury, we haven't even seen his position on the bike. It may be possible for him to get comfortable on a df bike and start enjoying long rides. I know it works for me, even with neck, back, ankle, wrist, and both shoulder injuries.

I will see if I can get someone to take a side on pic of me on my bike.

BTW, last night I rode with the club 17.77 miles and hardly any neck pain. I went a lot faster than normal as well. Riding with the club tends to bring out the competitive spirit in me.

These are the kinds of neck exercises that a doc is likely to recommend:

http://www.des.umd.edu/os/erg/neck.html

TromboneAl, Thanks, I printed it out.

I've lowered my handlebars a bit in preparation for moving back to drop handlebars. I was thinking about this thread on my ride today, and realized something. When supporting myself on my arms, I can either have my shoulder blades back, or forward. That is, I can let my body sag, or use back muscles to lift it up (you can try this leaning against a desk). I tend to sag.

Might not be significant, but perhaps one position is better (probably the latter position), or consciously switching between the two is good.

Thanks for the glasses tip, Longfemur, I noticed today that I do have to raise my head a little more because of glasses slip.

And one more thing:

NECK AND BACK PAIN A study of more than 500 recreational cyclists found that 85 percent have experienced pain from riding, most commonly in the neck and back.
FRESH FIX: PUSH-UPS, PULL-UPS, PLANKS Many cyclists ignore the need to condition the muscles above the waist. A weak torso opens the door to chronic back, neck and shoulder pain. Do two to three sets of these moves two days a week: push-ups (work up to 25) to build chest, shoulder and triceps strength; plank (support your body on your forearms and toes for up to 60 seconds) to build ab and back strength; and pull-ups (aim for 12) to strengthen upper back, shoulders and arms. (http://www.bicycling.com/article/0,6610,s-4-22-16762-1,00.html)

This topic gets beat to death all the time, with all the usual advice about fit, handlebars, exercises, etc. As a tired and retired MD, from a purely physiological/mechanical view, riding an upright road bike HAS to be the most unphysiological and illogical position to hold your neck that I can possibly think of! If you can do it, great, but if it continues to bother you, then stop doing it and try something else. "If it feels good, do it! If it doesn't feel good, then don't do it!" But continuing to ride hunched up craning your neck forward likely won't fix the problem.
But if your neck is fine sitting on a recliner watching the boob tube, then try a LWB bent and neck problems (and hands and back and...) will simply go away! Like peddling a recliner chair. And, NO, I don't sell bents - was just amazed when I tried one a few years ago after repeated extensive back surgeries and continuing pain and misery after trying literally everything, medical, non medical, alternate medical, etc. For me at least, it's about the only thing that works! Wish I'd found them years ago.
Even if I could, I wouldn't go back to an upright now, except for off roading, for which bents are rather worthless.

Could it possibly be that you are over 50 years of age and not as flexible as you were at 18?
I know that's the case with me.

After 100 miles it's my neck that wants a massage a lot more than my back or legs.

I had neck problems until I decided that I really didn't need to see what was going on a mile or two down the road. Keeping my head down and using my eyes to look maybe a 100 yds ahead with periodic farther glances solved the problem. Concentrating on relaxing the neck muscles helped too.

But if your neck is fine sitting on a recliner watching the boob tube, then try a LWB bent and neck problems (and hands and back and...) will simply go away!

What's an LWB?

What's an LWB?

Long wheel base. Step away from the Kool-Aid, Tony.

Sorry, just checked back after riding for a week or so! LWB is a 'long wheel base!" Excluding trikes (3 wheelers) there are basically two types of recumbents. SWB (short wheel base) and LWB (long wheel base)
There is the short wheel based ones which you recline backwards to a fair degree and these are a bit harder to learn to ride, are generally faster, and to me more uncomfortable. Although lots would take me to task for saying that.
But for a newbie, especially with a lot of neck pain or back pain, you might do better with the second type of recumbent, one where you are sitting in a more natural position (like riding a lawn chair) and your neck is not bent in either an extended (like on a road bike) or more extreme flexed (like on the short wheel base more laid back) position, the long hweel base. The bottom bracket (pedals) are lower than your seat, placing you in a natural physiological sitting position.
For most riders, I believe the long wheel base position is most comfortable and most physiological position to ride in. Back and neck pain are dramatically improved for MOST people (trial and error - I did see one guy who got WORSE sciatic nerve pain, but this is unusual) ) and hand pain or numbness are non existent as you have no weight on your hands. There are other advantages as well.
Do you get a free lunch?? Unfortunately no! There are three disadvantages of bents. First off, the entry level price is a bit more, usually not a consideration for most of the over 50's in this website from what I can gather of the bikes that are commonplace in this group.
Second, as they are longer and a bit heavier they are a bit more difficult to transport on a vehicle, although there are many mounts available that do the job just fine. Once set up to haul them there are not an increased bother at all.
Finally, most recumbents are a bit slower on climbs, maily because the rider can't stand up on the pedals and add his weight to the pedals. however, this is vastly overblown on upright websites and you soon learn to gear down and spin and you can climb anything, albeit a bit slower than an equivalent upright rider. BUT, because of less wind resistance, you pass your upright friends on the flats and downhills and more than make up for the slower climb anyway. You may have to explain to your upright riding buddies that you are not rrying to be a smart butt passing them on the flats and downhills then dropping back on the climbs to pass them again at the top. Seriously! Overall you'll either be a bit faster or finish the end of the day less tired and fresher.
The bottom line is that they are extremely comfortable bikes to ride, but a bit different from uprights.
So each type of bike has its advantages and disadvantages. Even though the recumbent is a real salvation for upright bike riders with back and neck and hand pain, etc. (I've converted a whole bunch after they rode mine) and in my opinion would be a much more comfortable bike for most non racers or non off roaders in most age groups, they are not a panacea to everything.
All bikes, upright and recumbent are great precision modern marvels of engineering and all are fun. Never be too stuck on one type or another - there's a lot of options for riders out there.

Long wheel base. Step away from the Kool-Aid, Tony.

Thanks big john. Not sure what is meant by the Kool-Aid though.

bobkat, thanks for taking the time to write such a helpful post. It is very appreciated.

I wonder if people who ride recumbants are more afraid of not being seen by cagers due to being so low to the road?

Most bent riders never seem to have a problem, even the low racers. A buddy I ride with thinks that cars seem to have more respect for you, maybe because recumbents look different and they are curious, or as another buddy says, maybe they think we are all crippled or something!

I wonder if people who ride recumbants are more afraid of not being seen by cagers due to being so low to the road?

Tony, this will improve visibility http://www.idealtruevalue.com/servlet/the-43924/Detail

I wonder if people who ride recumbants are more afraid of not being seen by cagers due to being so low to the road?


Never been a problem for me...but then mine isn't all that low.
http://i143.photobucket.com/albums/r152/crankyolddude/IMG_0755.jpg

Happy Trails

COD did you make that recumbant yourself? If not, where did you get it? Was it expensive? It looks really neat.

COD did you make that recumbant yourself? If not, where did you get it? Was it expensive? It looks really neat.

It's a Sun, EZ Sport steel frame. Relatively heavy, entry level Cruiser, 24 spd,
26"-20" wheels. Very easy for the beginning recumbent rider. Not built for speed
or touring, but quite capable of riding centuries. Somewhat upright seating with a low
BB and higher seat position than most recumbents. Price is low, just under a Grand.

My next 'bent will be either a faster, lower LWB like a Rans or an Easy Racer...or a
SWB (Short wheel base), I haven't decided yet. I also still ride several DF bikes...
A Trek Mtn. bike as a commuter, a couple road bikes, a tandem comfort bike etc.

edit: I bought it in mid Sept. of 2007 and I have just over 1000 miles on it. It's
performed flawlessly for me so far and I like the bike as much now as when
I first purchased it.

You have what's termed Turtle Shell Crouch syndrome.
You're hunching your shoulders.
"What" worked for me was going to 44cm wide bars.
I got a new carbon fibre motobecane and the bars are 44cm width.
The first long (over 50 mile) ride I was on I realized: No pain in the neck.
Asked several pros at a local bike shop and they had me come in with the 91 Paramount with the 40cm wide bars and the moto with the 44cm.
a simple video of me on rollers on each bike showed how much my shoulders were hunched with the 40cm vs the 44.
That did it for me..The 1991 Paramount now has 44cm bars and the soon to be finished Signature and Paragon will as well.