Professional Cycling For the Fans - Question on tactics

I'm basing this question on Monday's results with Evans a second ahead of Schleck. And for this question, let's say Sastre is not in the picture.

Here are my questions is "Why is Evans at such a big disadvantage because he's on a weak team?"

If Voight and Cancellara lead a hammerfest for Schleck, can't Evans just stick on Schleck's wheel? It seems like Voight and Cancellara will be leading Evans up the hill, as much as they're helping Schleck.

If some non-GC contender attacks, so what? Can't Evans just let him go. If some other GC contender attacks, the CSC guys have to cover it since Schleck has got as much to lose as Evans?

In other words, doesn't Evans just have to watch the other GC contenders and he can forget about who's helping them?

Thanks,

Cliff

Well he can, though the trouble often starts when mulitple attacks come. Schleck attacks, Menchov attacks, Ricco attacks...and everyone sits there and lets Evans cover each effort. He gets tired, then Voigt attacks, gets 200 meters and Schleck bridges across. Evans can't cover this one, and away they go. Of course, for this to work, Voigt has to stay with the break and not get dropped.

Well I dunno if that's how it happens, I'm no racing directeur sportif...but it sounds good to me! :D

I'm basing this question on Monday's results with Evans a second ahead of Schleck. And for this question, let's say Sastre is not in the picture.

Here are my questions is "Why is Evans at such a big disadvantage because he's on a weak team?"

If Voight and Cancellara lead a hammerfest for Schleck, can't Evans just stick on Schleck's wheel? It seems like Voight and Cancellara will be leading Evans up the hill, as much as they're helping Schleck.

If some non-GC contender attacks, so what? Can't Evans just let him go. If some other GC contender attacks, the CSC guys have to cover it since Schleck has got as much to lose as Evans?

In other words, doesn't Evans just have to watch the other GC contenders and he can forget about who's helping them?

Thanks,

Cliff

to an extent yes. problems are when CSC sends sastre up the road and schleck sits. then if caught, schleck attacks, evans goes, sastre follows, then attacks again forcing evans to hit the wind, repeat over and over again. this scenario leaves evans isolated, which makes him have to do his own bidding and leaves him vulnerable.

the other issue is if he has a mechanical, flat, crash, etc. when all his team mates are dropped, he's fooked.

What you say is not unreasonable, and Cadel has fine tuned this approach to riding grand tours over the past few years as his team has primarily focused on the premier talent of McEwen while Cadel rode into his role a a podium contender. Now, he has two good riders on all terrain, Cioni and Popovych, to theoretically help him and hopefully keep him from becoming isolated if he has a bad day or if someone needs to lead him to an attack. I don't think Cadel is at as great a disadvantage this year as he has been in the past. Some might say that having two good all around riders like the afore mentioned is enough. Traditionally, it has been. Teams like CSC are unusually strong all around, while Saunier and Euskatel are unusually strong in the mountains. Silence Lotto is probably stronger in the mountains than Rabobank, Gerolsteiner, Columbia, and Garmin. Cunego is pretty much in France with very weak high mountain help, so he really has to ride conservatively and follow the wheels and match the accelerations, as you suggest.

I'm basing this question on Monday's results with Evans a second ahead of Schleck. And for this question, let's say Sastre is not in the picture.

Here are my questions is "Why is Evans at such a big disadvantage because he's on a weak team?"

If Voight and Cancellara lead a hammerfest for Schleck, can't Evans just stick on Schleck's wheel? It seems like Voight and Cancellara will be leading Evans up the hill, as much as they're helping Schleck.

If some non-GC contender attacks, so what? Can't Evans just let him go. If some other GC contender attacks, the CSC guys have to cover it since Schleck has got as much to lose as Evans?

In other words, doesn't Evans just have to watch the other GC contenders and he can forget about who's helping them?

Thanks,

Cliff

Yes he can and he's rather good at it ;)

As the other two posts states multiple attacks by the top contenders or machanical problems are tough to deal with without a good team. It's strange that his team is so weak on the climbs because McEwan was left with no one to help him in the sprints because the team was built around Evans...hmmm.

Yes he can and he's rather good at it ;)

As the other two posts states multiple attacks by the top contenders or machanical problems are tough to deal with without a good team. It's strange that his team is so weak on the climbs because McEwan was left with no one to help him in the sprints because the team was built around Evans...hmmm.

The fact that the team was built around Evans doesn't imply that the riders aren't capable of helping McEwen in the sprints, it's just that it's hard to do two jobs at once and the priority job is protecting Evans. If you've been protecting and shepherding a GC rider all day, you might not have enough left for a solid lead-out - and besides, someone's got to keep an eye on Evans during the run-in, which is one of the worst times for something to happen. The riders doing that probably aren't available for other work. So, yes, the composition of the team is slightly different, but the difference has more to do with what jobs the domestiques are doing on a priority basis.

The fact that the team was built around Evans doesn't imply that the riders aren't capable of helping McEwen in the sprints, it's just that it's hard to do two jobs at once and the priority job is protecting Evans. If you've been protecting and shepherding a GC rider all day, you might not have enough left for a solid lead-out - and besides, someone's got to keep an eye on Evans during the run-in, which is one of the worst times for something to happen. The riders doing that probably aren't available for other work. So, yes, the composition of the team is slightly different, but the difference has more to do with what jobs the domestiques are doing on a priority basis.

Priority over ability, yes, I get it. However it does take a special rider to drag their sprinter to the 400m to go sign. You only have to look at the fine job Steegmans did for Robbie in '06.

Well he can, though the trouble often starts when mulitple attacks come. Schleck attacks, Menchov attacks, Ricco attacks...and everyone sits there and lets Evans cover each effort. He gets tired, then Voigt attacks, gets 200 meters and Schleck bridges across. Evans can't cover this one, and away they go. Of course, for this to work, Voigt has to stay with the break and not get dropped.

Well I dunno if that's how it happens, I'm no racing directeur sportif...but it sounds good to me! :D

This all sounds like good reasoning to me, but it seems that it would just all fall out of the window in a hard mountain stage were it is difficult for everyone to just finish the race. If the climb is truly brutal all these guys attacking are just going to slow down their overall time compared to if they just rode smooth and efficient. Now in a flat stage or one that lends itself to a break away there is a big issue when only a couple of seconds separates the top few riders. The guy with a strong team has a greater chance of keeping any threatening charges at bay and can keep himself placed in a better position at the end of the stage.

I think Evans' best approach is to not defend the yellow jersey but just ride as efficiently in the mountains as he can. He can beat most of the other climbers in the TT so if he can stay within a couple of seconds of the yellow jersey he is in a good position to win.

I think Evans' best approach is to not defend the yellow jersey but just ride as efficiently in the mountains as he can. He can beat most of the other climbers in the TT so if he can stay within a couple of seconds of the yellow jersey he is in a good position to win.

I think you're right! Since I'm hoping that Menchov wins, he needs to get away on a mountain stage and put some time into Evans. I'm guessing he needs over a minute lead on Evans to hold him off in the time trial.

Silence Lotto is probably stronger in the mountains than Rabobank, Gerolsteiner, Columbia, and Garmin. Cunego is pretty much in France with very weak high mountain help, so he really has to ride conservatively and follow the wheels and match the accelerations, as you suggest.
True for Garmin, possibly Columbia. But the Hautacam stage results suggest that Rabobank and Gerolsteiner riders may be stronger in the mountains than Silence Lotto.

Best riders:

Silence Lotto:
Evans +2'17"
Cioni +9'37"
Popovych and Aerts +15'58"

Rabobank:
Menchov +2'17"
Ten Dam +5'54"
Freire (LOL) +14'05"

Gerolsteiner:
Kohl +1'06"
Schumacher +7'38"
Fothen +12"48

Columbia:
Kirchen +4"19"
Siutsou +7'34"

Garmin:
VDV +2'17"


Team result for the stage:
1. SAUNIER DUVAL - SCOTT 13h 00' 38"
2. AG2R-LA MONDIALE 13h 08' 42" + 08' 04"
3. TEAM CSC SAXO BANK 13h 10' 05" + 09' 27"
4. EUSKALTEL - EUSKADI 13h 18' 20" + 17' 42"
5. GEROLSTEINER 13h 19' 53" + 19' 15"
6. RABOBANK 13h 20' 37" + 19' 59"
7. FRANCAISE DES JEUX 13h 23' 20" + 22' 42"
8. CAISSE D’EPARGNE 13h 24' 30" + 23' 52"
9. SILENCE - LOTTO 13h 26' 13" + 25' 35"
10. COFIDIS CREDIT PAR TELEPHONE 13h 30' 00" + 29' 22"
11. LAMPRE 13h 30' 40" + 30' 02"
12. TEAM COLUMBIA 13h 34' 42" + 34' 04"
13. BARLOWORLD 13h 41' 36" + 40' 58"
14. LIQUIGAS 13h 42' 18" + 41' 40"
15. GARMIN CHIPOTLE 13h 47' 42" + 47' 04"
16. QUICK STEP 13h 48' 54" + 48' 16"
17. CREDIT AGRICOLE 13h 48' 57" + 48' 19"
18. AGRITUBEL 14h 00' 31" + 59' 53"
19. TEAM MILRAM 14h 03' 48" + 1h 03' 10"
20. BOUYGUES TELECOM 14h 11' 45" + 1h 11' 07"

One stage doesn't really say much. Riders often sit up and conserve energy after having completed their assigned tasks, especially if the team is not competing for the best team prize, which is based on the top three times for riders from each team. but it would be nice to see Cadel with a rider who is a threat for overall like Astana would have had with Levi and Albert or at least with a better climber like Piepoli.

One stage doesn't really say much. Riders often sit up and conserve energy after having completed their assigned tasks, especially if the team is not competing for the best team prize, which is based on the top three times for riders from each team. but it would be nice to see Cadel with a rider who is a threat for overall like Astana would have had with Levi and Albert or at least with a better climber like Piepoli.
I agree one stage doesn't say much. I'm just wondering why you think Silence Lotto has a better team for the mountains than Gerolsteiner or Rabobank. I haven't seen Cioni, Popo, Aerts or Van Summeren be of significant value to Evans in the mountains (yet).

Well Cioni and Popovych have proven themselves in the mountains. Cioni has a top three in the Tour de Suisse, and a top 5 in the Giro. While he has always ridden as a domo, he is a high level domo. Popo, leaving out his superlative riding as a domestique for LA, has a 3rd in the KOM competition in the TDF, top 10 in the TDF, stage win in the TDF, top 3 in the Giro, and with Popo it goes on and on. He is a star. Look at his palmares. Following Popovych's career was watching the hands on involvement of one of the industries leaders, Ernesto Colnago, in the development of what he thought was a rider who would win the Giro. So their history is one of excellent support for their leaders in grand tours, plus Popo was groomed as a GC contender himself. I suppose Schumacher and Fothen may be on a similar level, but I don't put them above the other two, and both Cioni and Popo have far better performances and much more experience in grand tours than Schumacher and Fothen.