Tour de France - Ricardo Ricco fails le Tour drugs test

I don't see how this is much of a surprise.

He was climbing head and shoulders above everyone, passing them like they were standing still... guy was doped, it was just a matter of when he was gonna get caught.

Most of the climbers in the Tour are drugged, the advantages are just too great to ignore. The culture of pro cycling is that doping is O.K., and it's been that way for awhile. It's going to be hard to break this culture, since I think at least 40% of the peleton is on something. Sure there's been progress made, but it's not gonna get eliminated.

Oh and they need to test more than 4 riders per day. Many MANY more than 2 random tests per stage are needed. The fact that they don't have access to the UCI biological passport data is also completely ********.

So, it really goes to show that as far as EPO is concerned, the A and B process isn't working, because its really hard to detect, but without the leaking of the A sample results, the police would never have raided Mayo's hotel room and found the other stuff (of course, assuming that the stuff is Mayo's and is indeed a banned substance, but I digress).My need for due process causes this to make the hair on the back of my neck stand up, but while I'll admit in some cases the lower threshold what most European countries have for what allows a search can bag a few people, it's a horrible thing. I don't think a newspaper article should be sole justification for a search. It's not like you're likely to hear about it when it yields nothing.

All it does is perpetuate a witch-hunt, not solve the problem at hand. A headline is nice for those looking for a "gotcha" moment, but does absolutely nothing to fix the sport, and does nothing to keep the stigma off an athlete who doesn't deserve it when they're wrongfully accused. Except there's no going back. Even if you can prove malfeasance by the lab you're just smacked down by arbitration for picking on the lab, which, whether he doped or not, and you can't exactly learn from the lab results, happened to Landis. Quite a few positives have a bit of a stink about them, but when you control the system you never lose a case, no matter what. I was hoping that with some of the more recent arbitration cases that fairness to the accused would start to creep in, but that's not the case.

Making the organizers, L'Equipe, and the testing labs an arm of executive power is not a good thing, unless they are held to the same due process rules of the country they exist in. They're not. That is *not* a good thing. You can't question the lab, the science, anything. Unless you're Moreau or Virenque, you're pretty much sentenced to a career with Rock Racing at that point, at least once your ban is up. Unless people get their way and lifetime bans are handed out for a first offense. Then I really will give up on the sport. You have no recourse. Imagine being a rider and getting what you know is a false positive in the current system. What do you do? I imagine hide in a hole somewhere and try to salvage some dignity later.

Are you saying that the racers in the Giro didn't dope or the organizers of the Giro didn't test well enough?Giro organizers probably weren't testing the Italian riders, and then decided to save money by not testing anyone at all. These tests are expensive y'know!

Any of you guys remember that interview Jörg Jaksche gave a few years ago? He said that many pro cyclists dope not to win the race, but just to FINISH the race. He said these grand tours are so taxing on the body that much of the time you need to dope just to stay in the peleton and not get dropped, and subsequently yelled at by your director. According to him, if you needed to dope to be able to earn your salary and put food on the table, you would.

I like the idea of what the newer teams are doing. They are performing reguler blood tests on all their riders outside of competition.


This is probably what teams will need to do, at great expense. The whole thing is very unfortunate, because bike racing adds up to a lot more than "entertainment".

Any of you guys remember that interview Jörg Jaksche gave a few years ago? He said that many pro cyclists dope not to win the race, but just to FINISH the race. He said these grand tours are so taxing on the body that much of the time you need to dope just to stay in the peleton and not get dropped, and subsequently yelled at by your director. According to him, if you needed to dope to be able to earn your salary and put food on the table, you would.

A whole new perspective but still we dont want heros who are not real

I like the idea of what the newer teams are doing. They are performing reguler blood tests on all their riders outside of competition.I do, too. It's easier for them, since they don't have to try to rework existing team rules. They can be the place to work out new styles of team management and the others can follow when they get a method that works.

At least you can say based on what things look like on the surface that they are trying to get a clean team and they aren't complicit in doping. Because, fundamentally, right now there are problems with perception above and beyond even the problems with doping itself. They're the ones who'll make it so you can trust the teams again if they're successful.

Kind of a nice change from a few years of just losing big teams. I hope Team Burrito and Highroad can hold up their end. The fact that they scored big, new sponsors right before the tour is a hopeful sign. I think a lot of potential sponsors are being really careful.

I agree with Rolf Aldag...

the most disappointing thing about the Ricco positive is that he's supposed to be part of the "new generation".

Beltran? An old domestique trying to hang on for one or two more seasons. Duenas Nevado? An also-ran on a secondary team, someone you hadn't heard of till he got popped. Ricco, though polarizing, was a star, and that leaves me with an empty feeling about the whole thing.

Ricco, though polarizing, was a star, and that leaves me with an empty feeling about the whole thing.

But it turns out he wasn't a star... To quote Billy Bragg:

"I saw two shooting stars last night
I wished on them but they were only satellites
Is it wrong to wish on space hardware
I wish, I wish, I wish youd care"

(Or something.)

But it turns out he wasn't a star... To quote Billy Bragg:

"I saw two shooting stars last night
I wished on them but they were only satellites
Is it wrong to wish on space hardware
I wish, I wish, I wish youd care"

(Or something.)

Nice. I'm a BB fan too.

.

Most of the climbers in the Tour are drugged, the advantages are just too great to ignore. The culture of pro cycling is that doping is O.K., .

This is correct. It is crazy that Bjarne Riis is running CSC. This guy should be banned from cycling. How on earth can you let a doper run a team?

It is unfortunate and we all want to beleive. I really want Highroad and Burrito boys to do well by the end. I would like to see a close race, and lots of hard work. It will mean to me we are making change and heading in the right direction.

Yes F. Schleck is probably on something. Both the Saunier-Davul guys who won the mountain stage were likely on something.

"Just spinning along, one of the growing number of Democrats for McCain."

Hey Maddyfish just curious were you a Hillary supporter?

I'm not going to get into the Lance doped/didn't dope fight, but if your motivation to get up and ride hard is some guy you've never met who won an extremely high-level professional sporting event a bunch of times... maybe you need to come up with a better reason to ride. It reminds me of the dope who posted last year saying "I am ashamed to ride my bike today." WTF? Screw the dopers, screw the pros, ride your damn bike.

Seems completely different from where I sit. I agree the "I'm ashamed to ride my bike today" post last year was rather inane, but to receive a little extra motivation from the achievements of someone else doesn't strike me as unhealthy at all.

When I was young, and a runner, looking at the achievements of Frank Shorter and Dave Wottle gave me some extra motivation. I never made it up to their level, but it got me out the door and training a little harder.

If you find yourself shocked or surprised by the doping news this year, I really think you ought to find yourself a good therapist and have a talk about your grasp on reality.

I'm very sad, but I'm not surprised. Here's a quote from a post on my blog. The post title is "Doping and Realpolitik":

I generally don’t like non-medical drugs. I would love to see every sport rid of them forever. Unfortunately, that is a fantasy. A positive fantasy – but it’s important to grasp that, while we should work toward it, it will never happen. Never.

Go ahead -- argue with me. My problem is, I agree with you: It’s bad for athletes. It’s bad for the fans. It’s bad for kids getting into sports, it’s reflective of all that’s wrong with our bigger-stronger-faster, instant gratification, self-absorbed society.

You’re too right.

It’s also as old as sport itself. Endurance athletes in the early 20th Century tried anything and everything to get an edge, from cocaine to brandy to doses of strychnine – yes strychine, the pesticide, of which just 5 mg can be lethal. They took these things during races. Athletes in ancient Greece took stimulants, for crying out loud. I go on to look at just where the ethics fall out for me. Check it out here (http://velophoria.blogspot.com/2008/06/doping-and-realpolitik.html) if you're interested.

Ricco and the others this year are the very reason I declined to give my cable company an extra $45 for July. Believe me, I have been sorely tempted to change my mind. But every time I think about all the scandals in the last ten years -- much less the idiocy of ASO dis-inviting Astana -- I realize I really would be better off saving my money for a new bike.

My remedy for all this incessant crap is to go out and ride my bike. Clean.

This sucks!!

But it turns out he wasn't a star... To quote Billy Bragg:

"I saw two shooting stars last night
I wished on them but they were only satellites
Is it wrong to wish on space hardware
I wish, I wish, I wish youd care"

(Or something.)

Billy Brag is awesome. Nice to see a Bragg reference here.

SAUNIER DUVAL-SCOTT Statement
17/07/2008

SAUNIER DUVAL-SCOTT announce that just an hour before the start of today´s stage, the French anti-doping agency notified Riccardo Riccò that he´d tested positive for a banned substance after the fourth stage of the Tour de France 2008. Although the Tour organisers allow teams to continue to participate after a positive test, given Riccò ´s important role to the team in the race, SAUNIER DUVAL-SCOTT have decided to withdraw in order to preserve the positive image of the team´s sponsors and the Tour de France itself. Riccò has been suspended.

Moreover, the team decided to temporarily abandon competition activities until this unfortunate incident is clarified.

What bothers me the most is that the teams that are doping (or have riders doping) are still getting corporate sponsorship. The sponsors ought to withhold money until the team they are sponsoring is clean. That would end it quick.

I believe Hamilton ruined the riders chances for due process. He was warned many times he was non-negative in races leading up to his final positive conviction. The testers gave everyone a grace period to get their act together before enforcing the positive results. What did that get the race organizers? Years of litigation & money down the drain. That grace period is now over. Riders like Ricco who have abnormal tests are now targeted for future tests & one strike you are out. Guilty until proven innocent. Is that the most just way to handle this problem? Maybe not. Is there room for abuse by the testers. Maybe so. Riders like Hamilton put the sport in box & If this sport is to survive another 100 years riders who are not careful will be sacrificed for the good of the sport. It's sad but necessary.

Well CSC is calling it quits at the end of the year. T-Mobile pulled out after one of it's riders returned a posative test during training camp. Sponsers are pulling out. It isn't overnight and if every sponser dumped there team at the hint of a bad test from a single rider we wouldn't have cycling at all. Now that being said, teams like Garmin Chipotli, Team Columbia, and CSC are spending loads of cash making sure their riders are clean. It isn't always the best thing and I am sure those funds could be used somewhere else but honestly the process will ensure we stop seeing these scandles. It will also brake the long time doping habbit. Once cycling has washed away the reminance of doper filth we can get back to what is so great about this sport. Riding our hearts out.... :)

Well CSC is calling it quits at the end of the year. T-Mobile pulled out after one of it's riders returned a posative test during training camp. Sponsers are pulling out. It isn't overnight and if every sponser dumped there team at the hint of a bad test from a single rider we wouldn't have cycling at all. Now that being said, teams like Garmin Chipotli, Team Columbia, and CSC are spending loads of cash making sure their riders are clean. It isn't always the best thing and I am sure those funds could be used somewhere else but honestly the process will ensure we stop seeing these scandles. It will also brake the long time doping habbit. Once cycling has washed away the reminance of doper filth we can get back to what is so great about this sport. Riding our hearts out.... :)

Valid points - spelling notwithstanding.

I know I know I can't spell to save my life... but that being said my hope is that this will all shake out within the next season. I would love for all of us to go back to enjoying the sport and not worrying who will get busted next.

Valid points - spelling notwithstanding.

You missed one ;)

I guess this video is still up to date (and funnier if you understand French)...

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XaZLlrwvzPQ

A mate of mine works for the host broadcaster in Australia.

His TV team was in the Saunier Duval bus and had cameras rolling when Ricco was arrested. Will be on SBS tonight.

http://www.sbs.com.au/

Well CSC is calling it quits at the end of the year. T-Mobile pulled out after one of it's riders returned a posative test during training camp. Sponsers are pulling out. It isn't overnight and if every sponser dumped there team at the hint of a bad test from a single rider we wouldn't have cycling at all. Now that being said, teams like Garmin Chipotli, Team Columbia, and CSC are spending loads of cash making sure their riders are clean. It isn't always the best thing and I am sure those funds could be used somewhere else but honestly the process will ensure we stop seeing these scandles. It will also brake the long time doping habbit. Once cycling has washed away the reminance of doper filth we can get back to what is so great about this sport. Riding our hearts out.... :)

Are both these statements about CSC true? They're part of the "new guard" making sure their team is clean, but they're pulling out after this year b/c cycling is still "dirty"? Seems inconsistent to me...

They are pulling out as they no longer need the press that a team sponsor gives you. I believe that is what they stated.

A mate of mine works for the host broadcaster in Australia.

His TV team was in the Saunier Duval bus and had cameras rolling when Ricco was arrested. Will be on SBS tonight.

http://www.sbs.com.au/

please record and post on youtube!!!

Trying to curry ASO favor for a bid next year. Don't want to be the 2009 Astana

Probably for even more than just a tour bid. With the proTour defunct, ASO is the defacto league organizer. Pissing ASO off now could ruin the entirety of next season.

There is an underlying reason why some teams drug test their riders on a regular basis and use an independent and credited/certified WADA lab. It is not only evidence that their riders are clean, but performances can be historically tracked graphically and 'could' be used to dispute findings by ASO's lab.

Slipstream performed 1400 tests for their 23 riders in 2007. Break it down and it's a test every week for each rider. Team High Road, CSC, and Astana have similar programs. Wouldn't be surprised if teams took samples from all their riders during the current TdF and had it tested at some credited independent lab. It puts some pressure on the LDNN to get it right the first time if teams are performing parallel testing.

I guess this video is still up to date (and funnier if you understand French)...

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XaZLlrwvzPQ

I give it a seven, it had a good beat and was easy to dance to...

Latest report says the whole Saunier duval team has quit the tour:crash:

You don't train your a** off all year and then just quit because of one doper. I certainly wouldn't.

They quit because they are all juiced and the heat's on them.

There is an underlying reason why some teams drug test their riders on a regular basis and use an independent and credited/certified WADA lab. It is not only evidence that their riders are clean, but performances can be historically tracked graphically and 'could' be used to dispute findings by ASO's lab.

Slipstream performed 1400 tests for their 23 riders in 2007. Break it down and it's a test every week for each rider. Team High Road, CSC, and Astana have similar programs. Wouldn't be surprised if teams took samples from all their riders during the current TdF and had it tested at some credited independent lab. It puts some pressure on the LDNN to get it right the first time if teams are performing parallel testing.

+1
Exactly, how better to fight a doping charge than coming back with mountains of evidense stating otherwise, then making the French Anti Doping squads look like goons. For the teams that are testing internally the LDNN would get irrifutable evidence from both A and B samples before releasing any word out. Last thing they wat to do is get a false posative and esentially discredit themselves forever. At that point anyone who had been charged would come back to lidigate them to death..

This has to be the most stupid thing in the world, Ricco just blew himself MILLIONS in endorsement deals alone in Italy. Then you throw in the suspensions, and other stuff.... it's just damn stupid. If I were his teammate and didn't dope, I would probably want to be the living s**t out of Ricco. I would think it's better to be a clean 30th place tour finisher than risk everything and get tossed out.

Now in saying that, what would happen if one of these test turns to be a false-positive? I would think that would throw the Tour into total chaos even more than the cheats themselves.

Last week, I posted to say Ricco was drugged up...using a "fake" medical exemption to explain his bizarre blood test results. His fans seemed to think "Hey, maybe God just gave Ricco blood that is thicker than 20-50 motor oil".

Who will win in Paris? The last guy to avoid failing a drug test...

You know what? I hate it when you're right, and dammit you were. You're cynical as a mofo, but you seem to have good reason for it.

grolby I do beleive me... Someties having a hero or person who did something amazing helps. Especially when it is cold and dark and you want to keep right on sleeping in. lol
I am just depressed that it seems like riders are just using different methodes to do the thing that we don't want them to do. It is upsetting. I would rather have a CAT 4 race after three weeks and see them overcoming the odds just to finish.
My hope if we are going that direction..

Maybe you need to start making yourself your hero. I've gone to bed early on friday and saturday college nights to wake up at 4 am in the morning to get ready to go and race or wake up at 7 or 8 to go and ride in the winter when it's well below freezing outside. I don't ride because the pros ride, I ride because I love riding. I don't want to be as good as the pros, I want to be as good as I can be. There are enough athletes to look up to, i.e. marathon runners competing with prosthetic limbs so they can do what they love to do. If that doesn't give you motivation enough, nothing will.

There is an underlying reason why some teams drug test their riders on a regular basis and use an independent and credited/certified WADA lab. It is not only evidence that their riders are clean, but performances can be historically tracked graphically and 'could' be used to dispute findings by ASO's lab.

Slipstream performed 1400 tests for their 23 riders in 2007. Break it down and it's a test every week for each rider. Team High Road, CSC, and Astana have similar programs. Wouldn't be surprised if teams took samples from all their riders during the current TdF and had it tested at some credited independent lab. It puts some pressure on the LDNN to get it right the first time if teams are performing parallel testing.

Parallel testing in a lab other than the one owned and operated by the race organizers would be nice. Naturally the in-house newspaper spreads the smear campaign stories. I learned a new work on Bike forum today, cheese-eating surrender monkeys. Guess who??????

If I were his teammate and didn't dope, I would probably


I reckon you can paint all of the S-D squadra wuith a pretty broad brush....

You may want to check the following article:

http://www.cyclingnews.com/news.php?id=news/2008/jul08/jul18news2

Prudhomme has publicly questioned the results of Piepoli and Cobo. It might be interesting to see what samples get a real close scrutiny next.

A thought: Assuming agreement with ASO decision to ban Astana this year because they pulled fast ones on the Tour the last TWO years (or so, that's the official reason), wouldn't you expect that for next year the punishment would be ramped up? As in, S-D, Liquigas, and Barloworld should already know that they'd better find something else to do next July?

Sounds fair to me.

And it that doesn't work for next year, ramp up to a two-year non-invitation. Or a multiple Tour/Vuelta non-invitation. Seems there's got to be a way to put enough internal team pressure on an individual to stay straight for the good of the team (his employer, remember?).

Parallel testing in a lab other than the one owned and operated by the race organizers would be nice. Naturally the in-house newspaper spreads the smear campaign stories. I learned a new work on Bike forum today, cheese-eating surrender monkeys. Guess who??????

I think what you're suggesting is going to become necessary before long - if only to establish a badly needed standard of innocence, and get around the possible questionable politics. Somewhere, somehow we've got to find a way to recognize the clean riders, instead of the cynical attitude of 'they all dope'.

I learned that slang term about seven years ago, and any doubts about it's veracity were dispelled when Homer Simpson used it. :D

You may want to check the following article:

http://www.cyclingnews.com/news.php?id=news/2008/jul08/jul18news2

Prudhomme has publicly questioned the results of Piepoli and Cobo. It might be interesting to see what samples get a real close scrutiny next.

A thought: Assuming agreement with ASO decision to ban Astana this year because they pulled fast ones on the Tour the last TWO years (or so, that's the official reason), wouldn't you expect that for next year the punishment would be ramped up? As in, S-D, Liquigas, and Barloworld should already know that they'd better find something else to do next July?

Sounds fair to me.

And it that doesn't work for next year, ramp up to a two-year non-invitation. Or a multiple Tour/Vuelta non-invitation. Seems there's got to be a way to put enough internal team pressure on an individual to stay straight for the good of the team (his employer, remember?).


After the team ejections last year I figured that the teams would be ejected in the event of a rider testing positive. When Liquigas and Barloworld was allowed to stay, I was pretty dissapointed.

I doubt that we will have any measureable decrease in doping until management is affected.

After the team ejections last year I figured that the teams would be ejected in the event of a rider testing positive. When Liquigas and Barloworld was allowed to stay, I was pretty dissapointed.

I doubt that we will have any measureable decrease in doping until management is affected.

I read somewhere that the agreement between the teams and the ASO this year was that a team which had a positive rider would stay unless there was evidence of team involvement. Hence Liquigas and Barloworld staying, and S-D leaving of its own initiative (as opposed to being disqualified). Which is not to say that S-D would not have been pushed if they had not jumped first.

If it is a case of there being a test for the new EPO which the riders are not aware of, this is a first for the testers being ahead of the game! Sadly that probably won't change an ingrained culture.

Buh bye.

http://tour-de-france.velonews.com/files/images/RICOWINS_0.jpg

It make you think why Ricco's team pulled out when Barloworld and Liqigas didn't

I'm curious - was S-D riding the Scott "Addict"?

I can only think of two logical reasons:

1. They're brown-nosing in an attempt to not become 2009's version of Astana. Understandable.
2. Piepoli and Cobo. Boy, if these guys test positive, the s**t is really going to hit the fan.

Addendum: From VeloNews' coverage of today's stage:


01:06 PM: Saunier Duval
The title sponsor of the Saunier Duval cycling team announced today that it has ended its support of the team. We'll try to get more information as it becomes available.

piepoli fired for doping

^ is this true?

^ is this true?
Yes - according to cyclingnews.com

piepoli fired for doping

ha, beat me to it.

Saunier Duval is finished.

http://uk.eurosport.yahoo.com/18072008/58/tour-de-france-piepoli-ricco-sacked.html

Yeah, they're pretty much an ex-team at this point.