Tour de France - I don't care if they dope!

Couldn't f#cking care less if they all dope. It's never taken any enjoyment out of it for me to find out that they're using EPO and similar drugs. I really don't f#cking care! Let it be legal and we'll have a level playing field and avoid this type of crap in future races.

I heard that your son wants to become a bike racer.....

I heard that your son wants to become a bike racer.....

What are the chances of that happening, you have a better chance of getting struck by lightning.


Let them dope. It doesn't cheapen it for me in fact I am more willing to support athletes who go that extra mile to please me the fan.

Let them dope. It doesn't cheapen it for me in fact I am more willing to support athletes who go that extra mile to please me the fan.

:wtf: I hope that was meant to be sarcastic.

Same here. Couldn't care less if they dope. Dope Control Agencies only exist to create employment.

Please add my name to the growing list of people who don't care if they dope. Thank you.

I figured I'd be the only one who felt this way. Wow.

Would it be possible to create a troglodyte forum?

No way, dude. A lot of us feel this way.

We should start a petition.

I don't care either.

Doping=Good for dealers!

Couldn't f#cking care less if they all dope. It's never taken any enjoyment out of it for me to find out that they're using EPO and similar drugs. I really don't f#cking care! Let it be legal and we'll have a level playing field and avoid this type of crap in future races.


Ditto.

The fan is unstoppable. It doesnt matter what the athletes do we will watch. Roids, gamble on the games, epo, get caught dealing drugs, drunk drivers and wife beaters.

No one gives a damn. Just entertain us and we'll keep showing up, buying jerseys and watching on TV.

As far as bike racing goes, i think epo is great. I mean huge attacks coming on 10+% grades? I love that stuff. Who cares if hes jacked up. Its friking awesome to watch.

allright then,i'll have a bit of that!

Doping allows certain people to have an advantage?? Not if everyone dopes....

With designer drugs and stem cell research readying to hit the market in the next few years, tracking and testing for dope will get to be near impossible. Steroids and human growth hormone? How 1990's. The frontier of artificial enhancement in sports belongs to "gene doping." Here's how it works: Scientists use modified viruses to splice new, healthy versions of genes into damaged parts of a person's genetic code. However, if that person is already healthy, a spliced gene with instructions for, say, increasing the production of oxygen-carrying red blood cells or bulking up muscles, could give them a tremendous advantage over clean competitors. While sports pundits speculate that the 2008 games could be the first to see a gene-doping athlete claim a medal, most experts in the field think that the technology is still too immature to give athletes an edge.

This proposition will pay out at POP$100 if athlete competing in the Beijing Olympics is accused of gene doping during the games as confirmed by WADA. This proposition will close at the end of the 2008 games.

I don't really care, as long as all are allowed to dope....if it stays illegal, and some guys stay clean...it's not right for guys to have to work extra hard, just because they're clean.

I don't really care, as long as all are allowed to dope....if it stays illegal, and some guys stay clean...it's not right for guys to have to work extra hard, just because they're clean.


And theres the problem. How do you regulate the drug use. Its obvious every athlete is looking for an edge and if everyone is getting the same edge then what will they do outside the boundaries to gain more of an edge.

or

Do you just say do what ever you can and who ever has the best doctors has the advantage.

lets take it a step further, why not require all the atheletes to take performance enhancing drugs. Make them shoot up right there on televison, in front of the world and have phil liggett offer commentary while they do it.

then make them all race without a saddle. just the seat post.

Le Tour de Pharmacy.......

Here is what's wrong with your idea:
1. http://grg51.typepad.com/steroid_nation/2008/07/just-who-is-the.html
2. http://outside.away.com/outside/culture/200806/joe-papp-cycling-doping-1.html

The first article is a discussion about who is the world's fastest clean woman in the 100 meters. It assumes that Flo Jo's 10.46 it tainted, and Marion Jones' 10.63 is no good, leaving to another woamn who ran 10.7. Records don't matter if some are doping and others don't

The second is abut Joe Papp, a mid-level pro cyclist who started doping to get into the top tier, and got caught. Now he lives with his mother. Doping not only takes a top level athlete to the pinnacle, it takes a mid-level athlete into contention with the top in the field, or takes a low level pro into the mid level, or makes the weekend wannabe into the guy who wins the weekend crit. The drugs are also bad for you, and possibly deadly. If the gym rat lifter wants to dope up, you can say it's his life. But I think anyone who wants a fair race, from the weekend club to the Tour, shouldn't have to take his life into his hands to compete. You know there will always be people who will try for the advantage today, and worry about the conseqeunces later.

The problem with allowing all doping to go on is that they will push the limits of it to the edge if it was legal... in other words, racers would eventually be pushing death. They would use experimental or unsafe drugs if a taking drugs was legally enabled.

I also understand the argument from the other side.....

I'm with you Laggard - who gives a flying f**k.
If they want to dope...so be it. Maybe they'll get caught
eventually, and now it seems sooner than later. But
the performances are incredible when they are on peds.

Bobke's comments are so ridiculous too, and I like the guy.
The sport will go away...pphhhht. yea, ok. :rolleyes:

The fan is unstoppable. It doesnt matter what the athletes do we will watch. Roids, gamble on the games, epo, get caught dealing drugs, drunk drivers and wife beaters.

No one gives a damn. Just entertain us and we'll keep showing up, buying jerseys and watching on TV.

As far as bike racing goes, i think epo is great. I mean huge attacks coming on 10+% grades? I love that stuff. Who cares if hes jacked up. Its friking awesome to watch.


Apparently you never watched a pre EPO tour. By all accounts, modern doping has lead to more homogenous, more predictable racing.

You no longer have people suffering through bad days, and signifciant swings in performance.

With the possible exception of 2003, no EPO era tour (1992 or so to present day) can compare to some of the epic tours and performances prior to 1990.

time to cue the SNL All Doping Olympics cue.

[Unfortunately the link I have has been removed for coyright issues. Suffice it to say, "he's going to feel that tomorrow"]

The problem with allowing all doping to go on is that they will push the limits of it to the edge if it was legal... in other words, racers would eventually be pushing death. They would use experimental or unsafe drugs if a taking drugs was legally enabled.

And that would be the only way the riders will learn; take drugs, play with death.

I don't like the doping. There, I said it. I think it sucks. Part of this sport is about the limits of the human body. Introducing drugs to expand those limits cheapens it. I also think that the sponsors ought to drop the teams like a hot potato. Supporting these cheaters isn't good marketing money spent.

Couldn't f#cking care less if they all dope. It's never taken any enjoyment out of it for me to find out that they're using EPO and similar drugs. I really don't f#cking care! Let it be legal and we'll have a level playing field and avoid this type of crap in future races.
What other kinds of cheating are you ok with?

Couldn't f#cking care less if they all dope. It's never taken any enjoyment out of it for me to find out that they're using EPO and similar drugs. I really don't f#cking care! Let it be legal and we'll have a level playing field and avoid this type of crap in future races.

I find this statement ironic, considering it was you who started the thread memorializing Tom Simpson (among others). Now you don't care if they dope and die as long as they all get the same opportunity to keel over on mountains? Is the tour better for having a dead doper memorial along the route, or would cycling have been better with a longer lived Simpson?

I find this statement ironic, considering it was you who started the thread memorializing Tom Simpson (among others). Now you don't care if they dope and die as long as they all get the same opportunity to keel over on mountains? Is the tour better for having a dead doper memorial along the route, or would cycling have been better with a longer lived Simpson?
Excellent point.

Cycling and any sport, especially the ones where the athletes are paid outrageous salaries, should simply say....and do...........and enforce the guideline, that if you are caught using any enhancement drug, you can never compete again. Or be fired and your contract terminated.

I disagree. Its really hurt Cycling's image.

What other kinds of cheating are you ok with?

It's only cheating if it's illegal.

It's only cheating if it's illegal.

You are not really that ignorant are you? Doping IS illegal in France, therefore the police haul off the dopers for questioning. It is also not allowed in the sport. If you want to compete in this particular sport, you must play by the rules set out by the officials. If one chooses not to play by those rules, they are penalized. What part do you not understand?

Over the past twenty years, dozens of pro cyclist have suffered sudden heart failure, as a direct result of doping.

Many of them wanted to race "clean", but were competing against dopers. So, their choices were "dope and die" or get a job in a factory or on a farm.

And, of course, teen cyclists around the world look up to the pro riders. If dope is good for the pros, it must be good for Johnny in Montana.

Nope. I'd like to see "dope free" cycling. If a guy gets caught doping, a lifetime ban. And, a one year ban for everyone associated with his team...that way, your team mates have an incentive to NOT look the other way.

A few years of that, and all of the dopers would be gone. The remaining two cyclists would battle it out to see which of them was the best "clean" cyclist.

Couldn't f#cking care less if they all dope. It's never taken any enjoyment out of it for me to find out that they're using EPO and similar drugs. I really don't f#cking care! Let it be legal and we'll have a level playing field and avoid this type of crap in future races.

...i guess all that matters is that they entertain you. people can die as long as it's for your enjoyment. so who did you used to root for - the christians or the lions?

It's only cheating if it's illegal.

it IS illegal, *** of course, if you had any morals, it wouldn't require the act of a legislative body

hey laggard and friends, let's all get high. all day, everyday.


jealous of those better than you, aren't you? i bet you cheated your way through junior high too, all the way into a really great job in some office somewhere. well done!

everyone here probably still goes to hollywood movies and buys music. half those people are snorting, injecting, and blowing toxic drugs into every orfice of their bodies. how many musicans and actors have died in the last 30 years ? hundreds !!
i say have one doping leauge and one clean leauge. lets the fans,racers and sponsors decide which one they prefer to be involved with. personally, i would be very interested in both.

I don't think fans would want to watch a bunch of doped up cyclists. What fans want to watch are heroes...and heroes don't need to dope to win, just their God given talent. Look at Lance, he didn't need to dope and I think more cyclists need to follow Lance's example.

Couldn't f#cking care less if they all dope. It's never taken any enjoyment out of it for me to find out that they're using EPO and similar drugs. I really don't f#cking care! Let it be legal and we'll have a level playing field and avoid this type of crap in future races.

I like you in that you are one of the few people out here that generally knows what they are talking about when it comes to the racing aspect of cycling...

But, I don't agree with you here.

How about this...if everyone dopes, as you say, then it's a level playing field.

If no one dopes, it's also a level playing field.

Now we both know that if everyone doped, that someone would find better dope than everyone else. And as a result, there would still be testing to find out what "illegal" dope they were on. Unless you are suggesting that any and all dope, no matter what, is OK. No limits. And then I'd suggest that it's merely a matte of time before we watch one or more racers die in a race. And I really don't want to see that. That's already happened.

Reagardless, someone will cheat. So we are back where we started. And I'd suggest that this is a better way to go.

I'll take it one step further...if this continues, if riders (as in the case of Ricco, who it seems thought he was taking something that was new and ahead of the curve...NOT) continue inthis fashion, then the sport will go away. No company will want to be involved. No company involvement, no money, no jobs, no races.

i say have one doping leauge and one clean leauge. lets the fans,racers and sponsors decide which one they prefer to be involved with.

I thought about this too, but human nature being what it is, in order to gain a competitive advantage, guys in the non-doping league would start doping on the sly. Soon you would have two doping leagues.

You are not really that ignorant are you? Doping IS illegal in France

it IS illegal, dumbass.

In all fairness, he said in the OP he wanted it to be legal.

However, to Mr. Laggard, what I suspect you might really want, if I can engage in speculation, is that you don't want so much disruption and disappointment when you're watching a big stage race like this where race leaders and teams keep getting kicked out and their fans' enthusiasm keep getting crushed when the people they are cheering for turn out to be tainted. You'd like all that to go away and you figure if the doping were legal it would be more fun to watch.

if every one dopes there will be a level playing field. there would be a level playing field now if there were no dopers. yet there are still people who cheat.

if they all dope for a level playing field. theres bound to be some one that dopes a bit more just to get ahead and then some one else dopes a bit more than that to beat him. and before you know it, you get riders dying in the middle of the night or when they ride.

I like you in that you are one of the few people out here that generally knows what they are talking about when it comes to the racing aspect of cycling...

But, I don't agree with you here.

How about this...if everyone dopes, as you say, then it's a level playing field.

If no one dopes, it's also a level playing field.

Now we both know that if everyone doped, that someone would find better dope than everyone else. And as a result, there would still be testing to find out what "illegal" dope they were on. Unless you are suggesting that any and all dope, no matter what, is OK. No limits. And then I'd suggest that it's merely a matte of time before we watch one or more racers die in a race. And I really don't want to see that. That's already happened.

Reagardless, someone will cheat. So we are back where we started. And I'd suggest that this is a better way to go.

I'll take it one step further...if this continues, if riders (as in the case of Ricco, who it seems thought he was taking something that was new and ahead of the curve...NOT) continue inthis fashion, then the sport will go away. No company will want to be involved. No company involvement, no money, no jobs, no races.

Nice post!

I like you in that you are one of the few people out here that generally knows what they are talking about when it comes to the racing aspect of cycling...

But, I don't agree with you here.

How about this...if everyone dopes, as you say, then it's a level playing field.

If no one dopes, it's also a level playing field.

Now we both know that if everyone doped, that someone would find better dope than everyone else. And as a result, there would still be testing to find out what "illegal" dope they were on. Unless you are suggesting that any and all dope, no matter what, is OK. No limits. And then I'd suggest that it's merely a matte of time before we watch one or more racers die in a race. And I really don't want to see that. That's already happened.

Reagardless, someone will cheat. So we are back where we started. And I'd suggest that this is a better way to go.

I'll take it one step further...if this continues, if riders (as in the case of Ricco, who it seems thought he was taking something that was new and ahead of the curve...NOT) continue inthis fashion, then the sport will go away. No company will want to be involved. No company involvement, no money, no jobs, no races.

But the argument isn't so simple. The drugs follow the money. The sponser that may pull out is also the sponser that's paying lots of money for more exposure, a good showing, etc.; Sure they want clean wins, but they want wins.

There's been cheating since the first Tour, and not just drug related cheating. I don't like it but I agree with the OP that it's a huge distraction and sadly for some, the only reason to pay attention to the sport.

It would be great if cheating could be limited. One option that might work would be to go back to national teams, and give riders set contracts with a purse at the end for the winning rider and team, but no amount that a rider's going to kill himself over. It's seems to me that any cyclist that dopes, and that goes for athletes in other sports, too, has pretty much been lured away from the true spirit of competition that got him into the sport in the first place. Sad.

I'll take it one step further...if this continues, if riders (as in the case of Ricco, who it seems thought he was taking something that was new and ahead of the curve...NOT) continue inthis fashion, then the sport will go away. No company will want to be involved. No company involvement, no money, no jobs, no races.

I'm afraid that may be what it takes. We may have to get to the point where the money and the sponsorship dries up before there's true reform.

They should have tested that yellow lab that got nailed last year.

That guy nailed the dog and totally trashed his wheel and went over the bars.

http://youtube.com/watch?v=aGLDllHhBnE


Dog goes down, gets back up a little stunned.. then continues to walk away... continuing to wag his tail! Even the dogs at the tour are doping. This is getting out of hand.

What other kinds of cheating are you ok with?You know how catchers block the plate to improve their ability to tag out a sliding runner? That's against the rules, but I'm OK with it. Or in cycling, you know how riders take bidon slings from their team car? That's cheating, but I'm OK with that. Aren't you?

Apparently you never watched a pre EPO tour.

I have. They were called the amphetamines tours.

This sounds like a thread of Major League Baseball fans! haha

You know how catchers block the plate to improve their ability to tag out a sliding runner? That's against the rules, but I'm OK with it. Or in cycling, you know how riders take bidon slings from their team car? That's cheating, but I'm OK with that. Aren't you?

No, I don't like those practises. However, they don't threaten the lives of the participants, and there is a kind of informal consensus that a certain, fairly low, level of questionable tactics that have very little impact on the final outcome of the competition, is tolerated by referees; and the public and the players will immediately cry foul if they think the officials are favouring one team over another. It's all out in the open and everybody knows how far they can push it.

Doping threatens the lives of cyclists, it's done in secret and inconsistently, and it makes the contest meaningless.

No, I don't like those practises. However, they don't threaten the lives of the participants, and there is a kind of informal consensus that a certain, fairly low, level of questionable tactics that have very little impact on the final outcome of the competition, is tolerated by referees; and the public and the players will immediately cry foul if they think the officials are favouring one team over another. It's all out in the open and everybody knows how far they can push it. There was such a consensus in cycling for quite some time, maybe since Anquetil or before. Changing obviously, and has been for some time, but my point is that what constitutes cheating is not so black and white as some people seem to think. That said, I actually like the bidon sling; looks like it would feel cool.

Doping threatens the lives of cyclists, it's done in secret and inconsistently, and it makes the contest meaningless.Doesn't seem as simple as that to me. As Swart said, if everybody's doping, Lance is the best, if nobody's doping, Lance is the best.