unbelievably
07-18-08, 08:44 AM
Why are pro teams not responsible for whether or not
there rides take banned substances?
there rides take banned substances?
Tour de France - Team Liabillity.
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merlinextraligh
07-18-08, 08:47 AM
Because Doping's ingrained in the cycling culture. Many teams encourage it, if they don't actually facilitate it.
As long as the DS can say we're very dissapointed in "X", we had no idea, yada yada yada, Nothing is going to change.
Real punishment for Team Management is the only thing that is going to turn this situation around
As long as the DS can say we're very dissapointed in "X", we had no idea, yada yada yada, Nothing is going to change.
Real punishment for Team Management is the only thing that is going to turn this situation around
Hobartlemagne
07-18-08, 08:56 AM
If you dq a whole team after a single rider tests positive, it sure would put pressure on everyone to
be clean.
be clean.
Bacciagalupe
07-18-08, 08:59 AM
They are, at least in the TdF. Up to $155k penalties. (http://sports.espn.go.com/oly/cycling/news/story?id=3429365)
merlinextraligh
07-18-08, 10:44 AM
They are, at least in the TdF. Up to $155k penalties. (http://sports.espn.go.com/oly/cycling/news/story?id=3429365)
A good start. Additionally, DQ the whole team would be even better. And multi year suspensions for Team Managers on repeated offenses, and then you might have something.
A good start. Additionally, DQ the whole team would be even better. And multi year suspensions for Team Managers on repeated offenses, and then you might have something.
veloGeezer
07-18-08, 10:55 AM
the reason is that the riders are just the hired help. The team management represent the real money interests. Clearly there have been teams with systematic doping.
And you are right that only by penalizing the teams will the sport ever clean itself up
Having the sponsors leaving in droves over the last couple years is certain to help the process. I think the fact that the 3 big new sponsorships went to teams with in-house drug testing and anti-doping controls will be the example for moving forward
And you are right that only by penalizing the teams will the sport ever clean itself up
Having the sponsors leaving in droves over the last couple years is certain to help the process. I think the fact that the 3 big new sponsorships went to teams with in-house drug testing and anti-doping controls will be the example for moving forward
Laggard
07-18-08, 05:13 PM
Not sure why an entire baseball team is not suspended from the MLB if one of their players is caught using steroids. Why should cycling be different?
Allen H
07-18-08, 05:38 PM
Not sure why an entire baseball team is not suspended from the MLB if one of their players is caught using steroids. Why should cycling be different?
No way, no how, in MLB, at least. The players' union runs MLB (and has for 30+ years in terms of the negotiating power in the collective bargaining process) - that's why there wasn't any testing for steroids for years, b/c it was considered by the union a violation of "personal privacy" - until they had a PR problem when so many juicers were exposed.
Heck, the player's union fights ANY suspension of even a clearly guilty player for ANY offense - so the owners and players BOTH would resist such a move (of team suspensions) for the same reasons: $$.
No way, no how, in MLB, at least. The players' union runs MLB (and has for 30+ years in terms of the negotiating power in the collective bargaining process) - that's why there wasn't any testing for steroids for years, b/c it was considered by the union a violation of "personal privacy" - until they had a PR problem when so many juicers were exposed.
Heck, the player's union fights ANY suspension of even a clearly guilty player for ANY offense - so the owners and players BOTH would resist such a move (of team suspensions) for the same reasons: $$.
Keith99
07-18-08, 06:59 PM
Not sure why an entire baseball team is not suspended from the MLB if one of their players is caught using steroids. Why should cycling be different?
The structure of the competitions is rather different. The Grand Tours, the very longest thing is cycling, is only 3 weeks. Then the historical scoring in those Tours is setup with the idea that riders may exit the Tour. Forget drugs, they leave because of illness, crash or simply not wanting to deal with the mountians for sprinters. A team leaving a tour hurts but does not kill the competition. But in head to head team season long competitions what happens with games already played? Are they thrown out? Real problem as what is done to the team of the doper has the potential for a huge impact on which non-doping team wins the season.
Personally I like the way it is working in hte TDF right now. Teams where a member is caught seem to withdraw. This may be the best if it can become an expected reaction. It leaves it open so teams can stay, so a minor member really going against team policy won't cause a team to unjustly be thrown out.
I am convinced that at this point teams withdrawing are doing so with the blessing and perhaps even active encouragement of the Tour itself.
The structure of the competitions is rather different. The Grand Tours, the very longest thing is cycling, is only 3 weeks. Then the historical scoring in those Tours is setup with the idea that riders may exit the Tour. Forget drugs, they leave because of illness, crash or simply not wanting to deal with the mountians for sprinters. A team leaving a tour hurts but does not kill the competition. But in head to head team season long competitions what happens with games already played? Are they thrown out? Real problem as what is done to the team of the doper has the potential for a huge impact on which non-doping team wins the season.
Personally I like the way it is working in hte TDF right now. Teams where a member is caught seem to withdraw. This may be the best if it can become an expected reaction. It leaves it open so teams can stay, so a minor member really going against team policy won't cause a team to unjustly be thrown out.
I am convinced that at this point teams withdrawing are doing so with the blessing and perhaps even active encouragement of the Tour itself.