Electric Bikes - Is there a forum here for gas-powered motor kits?

I'm seeing a LOT of these gas-powered motor kits online for sale on Craigslist and Ebay. They are generally 80 cc and claim to get about 200mpg. They are 2-stroke and, yes, they make a bit of noise.

Before you flame me, please give me the straight scoop.

I'm interested in one of these kits for fun. I'm getting a cheap beach cruiser and am considering one of these motors. They are generally under 150 dollars and claim to reach speeds close to 45mph. Now, I have no interest in going that fast, but I can legally ride it where I live. I can get to work by dirt trails 80% of the way, and small residential streets the rest of the way. Totally safe and pretty much car-free. The ride is three miles, mostly through the woods on hardpack dirt trails and grass, etc. And the noise won't bother others much since the ride is pretty much in the middle of nowhere.

Anyway, sorry to drone on, but I couldn't find a gas-powered motor thread, only ebikes (which I'm also interested in).

Anybody know what I'm talking about or can give advice? Do these gas-powered kits actually work, or is it a 125 dollar box of worthless junk?

Thanks

Here's an example:

http://pictures.kyozou.com/pictures/_4/3866/3865082.jpg

Try this
www.motoredbikes.com

Thanks, friend. That is exactly what I was looking for.:thumb:

I looked at one of those (Honda 2-cycle) at the beginning of my quest for some motor power on a bike.

My problems with that situation included the folowing:
1) Too noisy. Can't conceal the motor noise while using it on a trail.
2) Too stinky. The motor releases gas fumes like a lawnmower. Somewhere along the way, I was told that I would arrive to work stinking like gas fumes.
3) Still have to pay for gas, which is more expensive than electricity.
4) Not environmentally friendly. The emissions from one of those in one hour surpass the emissions from my car in a week. These are actually lawnmower motors.
5) Just as heavy, if not more, than a decent electrical motor.

I would put up the investment for a decent electric bike, either a simple e-bike or getting an electric motor to fit the one you have. (I considered putting Bionx on my Beach Crusier, but it made more sense to put it on a more efficient bike. Still using the Beach Cruiser for short commutes, though.)

My needs are met by an e-bike but I believe they both have their place. The gas motor bike is generally cheaper than a moped and has further range than an electric bike. The rack mounted gas motor (like the Honda) is usually a higher quality motor than the chinese knock-offs.

Thanks guys.

I joined a motorized bike forum, as suggested, and learned that these guys seem to spend a LOT of time on maintenance, which is not what I had in mind.

I like tinkering with things myself, but not if I'm going to use it as a serious commuter vehicle. And besides, I wondered about the gas-smelling clothes. I wear nice clothes to work and don't want them to smell.

That said, I have quite a quest ahead of me for the right electric kit. I found a 395 dollar one that is made by Wilderness Energy (a brushed motor, 36 volt) with SLA batteries from a company in Boise, Idaho (found it on Ebay, of course). If it's reliable and gets me the four miles to work, that would be great. I have three rather large hills that are about three hundred yards each. I can peddle up them in second gear or third without stopping, but by the time I arrive to work I'm hot and sweaty. That's great for a morning workout, but not for work. I can't shower at work and I have to be ready to teach the kids when the bell rings.

I do not plan to modify my Trek 7100 at all. I love that bike. I can ride it everywhere. It's light, shifts fairly well, and the gears get me up all the hills around here. It's a great workout. But I don't want a workout on the way to work.

Think a 36 volt brushed motor on a beach cruiser can get me 4 miles with a moderate amount of hill climbing?

Think a 36 volt brushed motor on a beach cruiser can get me 4 miles with a moderate amount of hill climbing? It probably will. Depends on what you mean by moderate hills, your weight, battery, chemistry, amps, etc.
My first bike was a BL36 Wilderness kit with 12amp batteries that would carry my 240 lbs and a very heavy bike about 18-20 miles with no pedalling. However, my terrain is all flat.
Maybe a little more description and folks will chime in.

EDIT: Try this for info
http://endless-sphere.com/forums/viewtopic.php?f=2&t=5364&p=81957&hilit=hills#p81957

Anything bigger than 50cc has to be registered as a motorcycle to be street legal in Texas. That means licsence, registration, insurance and inspection. You should check your local laws closely.

The engine you need to look for are the much better 2nd Gen II series engines, not the older type as per your picture.

http://i201.photobucket.com/albums/aa276/Sianelleofavelorn/Faygo2ndgenEngine.jpg

I got one and it's lovely :thumb: :speedy:

Just what the world needs. Another internal combustion engine on the road. You do realize that nothing is more polluting for the power it produces that a small engine of this kind.

True, that's why I prefer to ride my electric assisted tricycle most of the time.

Nice score on the engine Sianelle. Looking forward to seeing your ride.

Just what the world needs. Another internal combustion engine on the road. You do realize that nothing is more polluting for the power it produces that a small engine of this kind.

Do you have a reference for this? I see people saying this all the time but I wonder if it's actually fully true or just one of those commonly accepted myths. I would agree that the Chinese 2-stroke motor posted in this thread is probably not great for emissions but I have a hard time believing that a 4-stroke 35cc Honda motor is that bad.

Also you say nothing pollutes more for the amount of power it produces. My observation is that there's enough power in a small gas motor to easily propel one person on a bike, does that pollute more than a car being used to propel that same person?

I'm not trying to be a troublemaker but I find there's a lot of absolutes quoted when it comes to the environmental realm, but not always the facts to back them up.

I had to sell my much beloved 1980s Suzuki 500 twin because I wasn't able to manage riding it anymore due to this illness I live with. This wee Chinese engine is going to allow me to ride further than I can go on my electric tricycle in terms of round trip distance travelled because I don't want to use an outsized lumpy great decadent car just to transport little ole me around the district.

Just as a by the way, the so-called 80cc engines just aren't; - it is a complete myth. These Gen II Chinese engines come in 50cc, 60cc and 70cc sizes. The 70cc engine is my choice for my bicycle because I think it's better to have a little more capacity when it comes to country road distances. I'm not at all interested in speeding about as it happens, but I do tend to carry fairly handy sorts of loads on my bikes.

I have a hard time believing that a 4-stroke 35cc Honda motor is that bad.

A modern honda civic motor has several important updates in technology in the past 40 years, none of which have been applied to a honda 35cc motor:

-switch from carburetor to fuel injection
-add a catalytic converter
-switch from non-electronic to electronically-controlled fuel injection

Quite a few of the latest small engines now have catalytic converter type exhaust systems. The Chinese bicycle engines don't and I'm not trying to say that they do.

A modern honda civic motor has several important updates in technology in the past 40 years, none of which have been applied to a honda 35cc motor:

-switch from carburetor to fuel injection
-add a catalytic converter
-switch from non-electronic to electronically-controlled fuel injection

Good answer, these are the things that I had in mind too. So that is to say it's the lack of these control pieces that cause small engines to have more of an emissions impact, not just because of their size.

Of course there's still the argument that it makes more sense to propel one person with 35cc instead of 1800cc. Even if the car has better emissions, it consumes more gas and therefore the refinery that produced that 'extra' gas is causing more harm than the little engine is.

As an example though, the Honda GX35 is EPA and CARB compliant and on a bike will net roughly 150-200 mpg, so it's not trying to sneak into the party. Whether you think that the EPA and CARB are too lax is another question all together.

Thanks guys.

I joined a motorized bike forum, as suggested, and learned that these guys seem to spend a LOT of time on maintenance, which is not what I had in mind.

I like tinkering with things myself, but not if I'm going to use it as a serious commuter vehicle. And besides, I wondered about the gas-smelling clothes. I wear nice clothes to work and don't want them to smell.

That said, I have quite a quest ahead of me for the right electric kit. I found a 395 dollar one that is made by Wilderness Energy (a brushed motor, 36 volt) with SLA batteries from a company in Boise, Idaho (found it on Ebay, of course). If it's reliable and gets me the four miles to work, that would be great. I have three rather large hills that are about three hundred yards each. I can peddle up them in second gear or third without stopping, but by the time I arrive to work I'm hot and sweaty. That's great for a morning workout, but not for work. I can't shower at work and I have to be ready to teach the kids when the bell rings.

I do not plan to modify my Trek 7100 at all. I love that bike. I can ride it everywhere. It's light, shifts fairly well, and the gears get me up all the hills around here. It's a great workout. But I don't want a workout on the way to work.

Think a 36 volt brushed motor on a beach cruiser can get me 4 miles with a moderate amount of hill climbing?


That sounds like a really good solution, as long as you can lift the motor off the wheel, so there is no drag while riding home.

Do you have a reference for this? I see people saying this all the time but I wonder if it's actually fully true or just one of those commonly accepted myths. I would agree that the Chinese 2-stroke motor posted in this thread is probably not great for emissions but I have a hard time believing that a 4-stroke 35cc Honda motor is that bad.

Also you say nothing pollutes more for the amount of power it produces. My observation is that there's enough power in a small gas motor to easily propel one person on a bike, does that pollute more than a car being used to propel that same person?

I'm not trying to be a troublemaker but I find there's a lot of absolutes quoted when it comes to the environmental realm, but not always the facts to back them up.

Electric energy can be more cleanly produced. Depending on the area where you live and the grid you are on, the benefit may vary. I'm sold by the $0.15-0.25 per day that electricity will cost, as opposed to having to go to the pump (about $2.00) several times a week. It reduces the hassle factor, as well, since I can charge the battery at home and not stop at the gas station. Plus, all those stinky ole fumes. I just don't want to deal with it. I also figure that if the fumes are making me stink, they must be doing something negative to the air around me.

No absolutes here. I'm still learning, myself. I'm trying for what is most practical for me. I just don't see those little lawnmower motors being a long-term practical alternative.

Electric energy can be more cleanly produced. Depending on the area where you live and the grid you are on, the benefit may vary. I'm sold by the $0.15-0.25 per day that electricity will cost, as opposed to having to go to the pump (about $2.00) several times a week. It reduces the hassle factor, as well, since I can charge the battery at home and not stop at the gas station. Plus, all those stinky ole fumes. I just don't want to deal with it. I also figure that if the fumes are making me stink, they must be doing something negative to the air around me.

No absolutes here. I'm still learning, myself. I'm trying for what is most practical for me. I just don't see those little lawnmower motors being a long-term practical alternative.

I agree that each person has to find what's practical for them. I've divided right now between gas and electric so I don't see myself making a decision either way for a while. Everything you say though would have an equivilant argument on the gas side - $2 in gas will net 75 miles or more of range which is enough for many people to go a few days without 'the hassle' of having to do anything extra (ie, plug in the bike every night) - It's more of a hassle to run out of electricity while you're out and about, than to go to a gas station, fill up and keep riding as long as you need to.

I think the smell factor is probably exaggerated. Once again these cheap Chinese kits are pretty rough but they have a pipe that dumps out the exhaust underneath the pedals. Many of the other kits run cleaner, are rear-mounted or have exhaust pipes that extend further back on the bike. More refined engines should produce less stink.

I really love the concept of electric, but there's a few deal-breakers at the moment (cost, weight, range) that I think will improve over the next few years. Hopefully the current interest in ebikes will drive down the price for people willing to wait a bit longer.

Being a 35 year motorcycle rider with over 300k miles street cred - I decided a long time ago that smaller is the key. In fact I would like to see laws that require people 1st pass a m/c qualification before ever being allowed behind the wheel of a large heavy vehicle. Why let the most inexperienced or mentally challenged people have the most dangerous equipment to the motoring public?

I don't mind small gas powered bikes. Yeah, they have "green" issues too but the VOLUME is so much less while the safety for OTHERS so much more! Anybody who drives So CA freeways sees it all the time - 20 to 30 cars/trucks with a single person in them for every one that has a passenger. If all those were replaced by bikes/motorcycles - gas or electric just think how much more room we would all would have?

Having raced motorcycles in my youth I can also say that it's much better to bounce off another bike/rider than even a small car.

electrics are good, I love 'em but I also have the jones for a GE kit someday too! Already got the Subaru 4 stroke waiting for the budget to buy a kit.

electrics are good, I love 'em but I also have the jones for a GE kit someday too! Already got the Subaru 4 stroke waiting for the budget to buy a kit.

Like I indicated in my last post, one of my biggest hangups with electric kits is the price; not cheap to get into and the battery is only going to last for a few years so there's the ongoing cost too.

Gotta love that Robin Subaru engine, aparently super reliable. Hope you're able to put it use one day. I know over at the motoredbikes forum, there's guys already starting to build gas-electric hybrid bikes to get the best of both worlds.

You probably found all the answers to your questions on the motoredbike forums by now. Great forum.:thumb:

...They are generally 80 cc and claim to get about 200mpg...

More like 150mpg with the 69cc engines that are called 80cc.

...claim to reach speeds close to 45mph...
More like low 30s, high 20s. They don't survive life much above 6000 rpm.

The only reason I am going electric is because motorized bikes are currently illegal in Hawaii (thanks Segway:mad:). It looks like the laws may be fixed next year, but it looks as if engine powered bikes will not be included in the fix. So I'm going electric.

IMHO, the pollution is insignificant--long story short--global warming is caused by people and their engines. It's a myth, yet it's already the law! Prominent scientists agree with my stance, politicians disagree (http://epw.senate.gov/public/index.cfm?FuseAction=Minority.SenateReport). I know who I'd rather trust, but this is a topic for another thread.:)

I think this is better than a moped, and should really only be used as a motorcycle. weather is environmentally friendly or not, its better than using a car if you want good distance range out of it. I think of it like a good alternative to use to save money from the gas pump monster. Electric E bikes are more for fun for short distances (IE normally 20 miles +/-) and gas is more for a longer trip like going to a relatives house thats 50-60 miles away. either way, i think of it like a motorcycle without the luxury. and global worming is fake. trust the Scientists, not the media. but that argument is not for this thread.

If you're not opposed to gas, an actual scooter might be the way. If you get a real engine (not the lawnmower types), it will emit less fumes. I was considering and test driving several scooters before I stumbled onto the concept of an electric bicycle. My real motivation is being able to really pedal home, so the electric option for mornings was better for me. If you are simply looking for cheap transportation, an outright scooter might do the trick (whether powered by electricity or gas).

One more thing. I didn't like the throttle situation on the gas motor I looked at. Apparently, to get any assistance, I would have to continuously push on the thumb throttle. It seemed like I'd have a real sore thumb in pretty short distance. I like the pedal-activated technology in some of the electric models I've seen.

I realize that cost is an issue, so I can't tell you what to do. Even considering battery costs, the electric seemed like a better long-term solution for me. Once again, that had to do with my personal needs and preferences.

I vote for the gassers to share the electric forum. At least until they evolve enough to warrant their own. We share many of the same issues when it comes to comfort, brakes, cargo, safety, etc.

Holding a throttle open is no big deal - rig a lock or use a rocker lever that uses the palm of your hand. The biggest drag with single cylinder engines will be VIBRATION. If you can still feel your extremities after a few miles, you'll be due to check for broken components caused by the shaking of the engine under load.

As long as it's 2-3 wheels we'll all be much better off!

I vote for the gassers to share the electric forum. At least until they evolve enough to warrant their own. We share many of the same issues when it comes to comfort, brakes, cargo, safety....

As long as it's 2-3 wheels we'll all be much better off!

Not necessarily, but it look like your wish was granted. I just noticed a sticky thread saying we are open to gas-power as well.

Here's one of my issues with the gas. From my limited knowledge, there are 2 types of gas engines on small machines. They are 2-stroke and 4-stroke. The 2 stroke ones are what I've seen for motorizing bicycles.

The 2 stroke engines are way more polluting. They produce more pollution in an hour than my car would produce in 8 hours, so there is no environmental benefit. These are the same motors that cause disgusting fumes from blowers and lawnmowers. I literally know a guy who gets asthma from being around those things, but not from the electric ones.

They are a hassle. The owner has to mix oil and gas. Depending on the sophistication, the owner might be measuring out quantities of each. Sounds like a real pain.

If there is a 4 stroke motor out there that is reasonably priced, then fine, go for it. It's not much different than electric, at that point, except that you've got to use a little gas instead of a battery.

2 strokes don't have to be so polluting but it takes care mixing specially formulated oils with gasoline to reduce emissions to minimum. Myself - I don't like them either but I would accept a little more pollution if it meant a smaller vehicle to share the road with. My Robin-Subaru is 4 stroke/cycle and I know Honda makes one too so your fears are somewhat un-informed.

And yeah, the gassers are here - I'm not so BIG MINDED to think we can't learn something from each other - congratulations to us all looking for a little assistance!

what next? cheese powered engines? well, then again, my bike is cheesepuff powered when i ride. cheesepuff12 to be exact. but has anyone thought about E85 powered bikes? or even E100?

My criteria for being allowed to be discussed here:

- You can't smell it
- You can't hear it quarter mile away
- You can lift it
- You can pedal it to make a significant difference in speed

"You" meaning the average healthy adult, of course.

My criteria for being allowed to be discussed here:

-being able to use a means of prepoultion other than your own body to move a bike, and/or the option move it with your own body's own power.

when we talk gas, we arnt talking stealth. those who use gas intend to be high profile. those who do use gas, obviously know this. I don't use gas, but im not against it.

The 'sticky' now has a question mark at the end of the thread title and I've put up a poll so I can get everyone's opinion on this. I know this is a hot topic and not everyone agrees with it, but I do really want to know what you all think.

Another problem is that there is no way that you'd be allowed on the MUP or sidewalk. The noise and smoke would give you away in no time. Sometimes, each of those is a good option, and you wouldn't have it.

Now I'm up to read on the sticky thread on this topic.

Another problem is that there is no way that you'd be allowed on the MUP or sidewalk. The noise and smoke would give you away in no time. Sometimes, each of those is a good option, and you wouldn't have it.

Now I'm up to read on the sticky thread on this topic.

Looks like the sticky thread is the same as the regular thread.

...Just go electric. It's so much better in so many ways.

My criteria for being allowed to be discussed here:

-being able to use a means of prepoultion other than your own body to move a bike, and/or the option move it with your own body's own power.

when we talk gas, we arnt talking stealth. those who use gas intend to be high profile. those who do use gas, obviously know this. I don't use gas, but im not against it.

Surprisingly there are motorised bicycle riders who are very keen on stealth when it comes to setting up their bikes. Some riders go to a lot of trouble to devise quieter exhaust systems as well as to find quality two stroke lubricants that aren't so polluting and can be used in lighter mixture ratios.
I know that there are other riders out there who only want to ride about like idiots while trailing stink and noise behind them, but unfortunately they tend to be the ones that folk take note of.

There are two ways of looking at this. One is to use a broad view, where the two power systems are combined to provide all possibilities and options for all applications. Knowing the strengths and weaknesses of each is undeniably part of the equation.

However...

I think in reality there is a lot of difference between an electric power system and an internal combustion power system. The ultimate goal in many cases will be nearly identical but the application of the technologies and knowledge required for each are significantly different. They also have significantly different characteristics (which can also change their applicability to certain uses) and make for somewhat limited cross-pollination of ideas between the two. In addition, I'm sure some are only interested in one of the two. I've been in electric vs IC engine discussions before and sometimes the two camps seems to talk past eachother's points without acknowledging them.

I would think that there are more points in common between applying either electric power or gas power to a bicycle. To tell the complete truth the points in common are the same whether it's steam, compressed air, a hot air (Stirling cycle) engine or wind power.

Some examples, - I'm sure there are more....

Firstly: Is the bicycle appropriate for the conversion with regard to strength of components, steering geometry, wheel and tyre size & etc?

Secondly: Will everything fit onto the bicycle in such a way that it can be safely ridden?

Thirdly: Are the brakes adequate or do they need to be upgraded?

Fourthly: Will the converted bicycle now be difficult to maintain in a safe and reliable condition?

& etc.....

well im picking up the motor but im not using it to propel the bike im using it as a generater to charge the cells when i go on long rides and the bms cuts out leaving me to pedal. theres no law say it cant be used for that.

i did a few test and found a small 250 watt 24volt motor makes a great generater, ill rebuild the motor for 49volt. buy adding more copper to the winding. and its smaller than a popcan.
most of the setup can fit nicely behind the down tube of my shwinn izip where the old battery pack was.

and like thay say out of sight out of mind ill build a nice shroud around the gas motor and make a nice custom tank, not like the one it comes with:)

That picture is just hideous! What is that, a fart-mobile? :D

That picture is just hideous! What is that, a fart-mobile? :D

yeah. i hear its all the rage!

karma - I've been against regenerative braking for a while but your project set my thoughts towards perhaps buying a front hub motor with regen controller and add a Golden Eagle drive to the rear wheel?

I should be able to use the oil engine to drive the regen on flat surfaces. and also have both systems for really steep hills. Also, as easy as it seem to disconnect the GE drive belt, it could be handy to run electric only in more congested areas. Tri-power source.

Good luck with your project!