This weekend, I ended up ordering two Bromptons, one M6R and one P6R. The M6R I ordered through Bikes@Vienna in Vienna, VA and the P6R I ordered through Calhoun Cycle in MN (online and in stock, hopefully, :D). It's nice being able to test ride the bikes at the store in Vienna, but I was a little unsure what price Bikes@Vienna was going to sell it for, so that's the reasoning for ordering from two different stores. Calhoun's price seemed really good! Both are Ivory/Black.
I have some questions that many many hours of obsessive searching did not answer. Hopefully people here can answer them or help provide a link.
1. I've read that the brakes suck, and I should upgrade the pads to Kool Stop Salmon. That's not a problem to me, and I'm considering upgrading the rear brakes to the dual pivot model. Alternatively, could I just use regular road calipers instead of wasting money on Brompton specific brakes? Will they fit?
2. I've read that you can install skate wheels instead of the EZ wheels that Brompton sells. Are there instructions anywhere (with pictures, preferably)? What diameter and width skate wheels should I get?
3. Are there any other shifters I can get to replace the stock Brompton ones? They seemed okay, but I want to make it as simple as possible for my girlfriend, and she is already used to grip shifts. No biggie, but I'd like to hear any options I may have.
4. What is the max rear sprocket size that the newer Bromptons can accept? Some discussions state 14t, 15t, and 17t. How big can I go?
5. Is the chainring replaceable, or do I have to get a new crankset? If the chainring is replaceable, what's the BCD? Anyone replace the crankset with an external bottom bracket set? (I did this with my Tikit, and it worked out great)
6. The touring pannier that Brompton sells has a metal cage thingy. Can that cage be removed from the Brompton pannier to use a regular pannier?
7. I ordered an M-type handlebar along with my P6R. The stem for the P model seems shorter and farther forward, and I like the look of the M-type bars. Would there be any issues with just swapping the handlebars (use the M-type handlebars on the P-type stem)? Maybe I'll end up loving the P-type, but I can't get over the goofy look of them.
I've been reading the BromptonTalk yahoo group messages, but the search sucks, and the layout is so much crappier than a forum. Are there any other good sites to get information? The P6R should arrive within a week, as long as it's in stock like the Calhoun website states. Maybe I'll be able to answer most of these questions on my own when I receive it. Pictures will be posted as soon as I get it!:thumb:
LWaB
07-21-08, 03:06 AM
1. I've read that the brakes suck, and I should upgrade the pads to Kool Stop Salmon. That's not a problem to me, and I'm considering upgrading the rear brakes to the dual pivot model. Alternatively, could I just use regular road calipers instead of wasting money on Brompton specific brakes? Will they fit?
2. I've read that you can install skate wheels instead of the EZ wheels that Brompton sells. Are there instructions anywhere (with pictures, preferably)? What diameter and width skate wheels should I get?
3. Are there any other shifters I can get to replace the stock Brompton ones? They seemed okay, but I want to make it as simple as possible for my girlfriend, and she is already used to grip shifts. No biggie, but I'd like to hear any options I may have.
4. What is the max rear sprocket size that the newer Bromptons can accept? Some discussions state 14t, 15t, and 17t. How big can I go?
5. Is the chainring replaceable, or do I have to get a new crankset? If the chainring is replaceable, what's the BCD? Anyone replace the crankset with an external bottom bracket set? (I did this with my Tikit, and it worked out great)
6. The touring pannier that Brompton sells has a metal cage thingy. Can that cage be removed from the Brompton pannier to use a regular pannier?
7. I ordered an M-type handlebar along with my P6R. The stem for the P model seems shorter and farther forward, and I like the look of the M-type bars. Would there be any issues with just swapping the handlebars (use the M-type handlebars on the P-type stem)? Maybe I'll end up loving the P-type, but I can't get over the goofy look of them.
1 You can't fit standard road calipers (at least, not easily). I haven't found a need to upgrade the brakes YMMV. You've already mentioned some good ways to do so.
3 Sturmey Archer make a twist grip for their 3 sp hub, it should also work with the SRAM but I've not tried it.
4 The newest Bromptons can take a 17t rear cog.
5 The chainring is integral to the crank. Most options will weigh more and may affect folding.
6 The Brompton pannier is velcroed onto the frame, so it can easily be removed. I don't know if you can fit another pannier to the frame but why would you want to?
mulleady
07-21-08, 03:59 AM
Good luck with your new purchases. Bromptons may be expensive but the overall fold and ride combination is well worth it! I've tried to answer some questions below as a Brompton owner of 3 months. You can see my own review at:
http://www.bikeforums.net/showthread.php?t=420368&highlight=brakes+brompton+improved
This weekend, I ended up ordering two Bromptons, one M6R and one P6R. The M6R I ordered through Bikes@Vienna in Vienna, VA and the P6R I ordered through Calhoun Cycle in MN (online and in stock, hopefully, :D). It's nice being able to test ride the bikes at the store in Vienna, but I was a little unsure what price Bikes@Vienna was going to sell it for, so that's the reasoning for ordering from two different stores. Calhoun's price seemed really good! Both are Ivory/Black.
I have some questions that many many hours of obsessive searching did not answer. Hopefully people here can answer them or help provide a link.
1. I've read that the brakes suck, and I should upgrade the pads to Kool Stop Salmon. That's not a problem to me, and I'm considering upgrading the rear brakes to the dual pivot model. Alternatively, could I just use regular road calipers instead of wasting money on Brompton specific brakes? Will they fit?
The brakes on the older models are the ones thst people normally comment on. The dual pivot ones with improved pads are much better. I find my brakes are quite good. wouldn't see the need on the newer models. You can add Kool Stops for imrpoved braking but they will also wear quicker.
2. I've read that you can install skate wheels instead of the EZ wheels that Brompton sells. Are there instructions anywhere (with pictures, preferably)? What diameter and width skate wheels should I get?
Good question as I'd like to do this mod too. The bike only rolls OK on the EZ so worth replacing for sure.
3. Are there any other shifters I can get to replace the stock Brompton ones? They seemed okay, but I want to make it as simple as possible for my girlfriend, and she is already used to grip shifts. No biggie, but I'd like to hear any options I may have.
4. What is the max rear sprocket size that the newer Bromptons can accept? Some discussions state 14t, 15t, and 17t. How big can I go?
17t
5. Is the chainring replaceable, or do I have to get a new crankset? If the chainring is replaceable, what's the BCD? Anyone replace the crankset with an external bottom bracket set? (I did this with my Tikit, and it worked out great)
No and there's no point in the Brompton's case you could impact the fold.
6. The touring pannier that Brompton sells has a metal cage thingy. Can that cage be removed from the Brompton pannier to use a regular pannier?
I think the Brompton pannier is perfect and it is designed to avoid heelstrike. I would not recommend changing this![ Just add the skate wheels to ehance the rolling./B]
7. I ordered an M-type handlebar along with my P6R. The stem for the P model seems shorter and farther forward, and I like the look of the M-type bars. Would there be any issues with just swapping the handlebars (use the M-type handlebars on the P-type stem)? Maybe I'll end up loving the P-type, but I can't get over the goofy look of them.
[B]I don't like the look of the P bars either but they are clever ergonomically. People often say they get to like them after a bit. Swapping over wouldn't be a problem once you can get a dealer to supply the parts. If not you could mod to a regular handblebar stem. Steve Parry has done this and it's not that difficult. Even gives more handlebar real estate. Have you tried amending the order? Sometimes Brompton are flexible and it takes 3 weeks for them to turn it around anyway. If you only ordered recently perhaps you might be able to get this sorted?
I've been reading the BromptonTalk yahoo group messages, but the search sucks, and the layout is so much crappier than a forum. Are there any other good sites to get information? The P6R should arrive within a week, as long as it's in stock like the Calhoun website states. Maybe I'll be able to answer most of these questions on my own when I receive it. Pictures will be posted as soon as I get it!
IMHO this forum is a good as it gets and the Brompton owners on here are more impartial. A lot of other contributors to this sub-forum also have very good knowledge and are very helpful. Welcome to the forum! :)
iamstuffed
07-21-08, 08:07 AM
6 The Brompton pannier is velcroed onto the frame, so it can easily be removed. I don't know if you can fit another pannier to the frame but why would you want to?
It's just a matter of options. The touring pannier looks great, but I already have panniers. If I wanted something smaller than the touring pannier, rather than forking over even more for a smaller Brompton bag, if one will fit, I could use any of my regular panniers.
The brakes on the older models are the ones thst people normally comment on. The dual pivot ones with improved pads are much better. I find my brakes are quite good. wouldn't see the need on the newer models. You can add Kool Stops for imrpoved braking but they will also wear quicker.
Did you get the rear dual pivot calipers? Are they even necessary?
I am still interested in replacing the crankset on the Brompton, mainly because I want to tweak the chainring size after I ride it for extended periods. The standard crankset doesn't seem to allow you to do that. Bummer.
somnatash
07-21-08, 09:00 AM
This weekend, I ended up ordering two Bromptons, one M6R and one P6R.
Wow. 2! Congrats to your bikes
I have some questions that many many hours of obsessive searching did not answer. Hopefully people here can answer them or help provide a link.
The best knowledge pool for your questions is the "BromptonTalk" but you are right its a pain to read there. A good group and active group is a french one, so if you happen to speak french try: http://bromptonforum.conceptforum.net/
1.
Acutally the brakes have been upgraded recently, if you are lucky and get the new ones, you may well find that they are good enough. You can also use different brake levers - not any though, but I suspect every brake lever which are for cantilever e.g. Shimano-levers: BL-R550-S.
With the calipers themselve is a different story: You would have to look for some with very long reach/arms (and also the cable routing is a problem). Since the long arms are the constructional reason for the lesser brake power, I doubt that similar calipers from a different company have more power.
2.
If you have ivory bike, I recomend to look at ebay. The seller hans630_2 sells white rolers, readily prepared for the mounting on the brompon. The rollers get slightly darker after some time so they might be the perfect upgrade for your ivory bike.
http://cgi.ebay.co.uk/BROMPTON-Light-Weight-Solid-Polyurethane-Transit-Wheels_W0QQitemZ110272617529QQcmdZViewItem?hash=item110272617529&_trksid=p3286.m14.l1318
If you want others there are some things to take into account: the most rollers are thicker and you can get probs with heel-clearance. Look at BromptonTalk for advice.
4.
Not sure, but I believe 19t as this is what I have on my 8speed brompton and I have never heard of a bigger one. It may well be, that with a normal brompton hub even 19t is too big (different chainline). There are people who use an aftermarket mod. from Highspeed called "wide gear sprocket" which uses a 12t and a 18t. For that modification one hase to file the rear triangle a littel to give claerance.
6.
It can be removed from the bag and be used with e.g. a backsack or any bag strapped to it. I doubt with a "hanging" regular pannier.
Somnatash
iamstuffed
07-21-08, 09:10 AM
Not sure, but I believe 19t as this is what I have on my 8speed brompton and I have never heard of a bigger one.
I'm pretty sure the 19t on yours can fit because the chainline is different (because of the SA hub). Could you post how the tensioner was modified to allow the larger sprocket? I'll probably try adding the SA 8 hub and document the entire process.
somnatash
07-21-08, 09:15 AM
Ups, you have been quicker - see my edit about the Highspeed sprocket.
The chain tensioner - hmhm, from what is visible it looks very normal, not modified, but I dont know from inside and I would rather not take it off. What looks like its modified is a part from the hub.
But yes, please post the process.
invisiblehand
07-21-08, 09:47 AM
2. I've read that you can install skate wheels instead of the EZ wheels that Brompton sells. Are there instructions anywhere (with pictures, preferably)? What diameter and width skate wheels should I get?
I did this on the old bike. I wrote down the necessary metric screw for the job in an old post. I don't recall checking the diameter of the skate wheel ... I just used a pair for roller blades.
It is ridiculously easy. You might have to putz around finding the screw.
iamstuffed
07-21-08, 12:24 PM
Ups, you have been quicker - see my edit about the Highspeed sprocket.
The chain tensioner - hmhm, from what is visible it looks very normal, not modified, but I dont know from inside and I would rather not take it off. What looks like its modified is a part from the hub.
But yes, please post the process.
Can you post pictures of the hub and the chain tensioner? I just want to see the cable routing, and the differences between a stock tensioner and whatever modifications they did. It seems you have to modify the tensioner in some way to make the 19t fit, so I'm sure Kinetics did so.
mulleady
07-21-08, 12:43 PM
Hi Somnetash interesting link to ebay for those wheels. Would this set of 4 not be better? See:
http://www.biketrax.co.uk/products.php?plid=m6b0s142p763
iamstuffed
07-21-08, 01:25 PM
Bummer. I spoke with Calhoun and they said I couldn't just use the P-type stem and swap the bars out for the M-type. Has anyone done that? I would have thought it it would have worked, since the cables are long enough. Sara, the lady I spoke with, said the fold is slightly different.
mulleady
07-21-08, 01:29 PM
Surely they can amend the oder with Brompton is not too long processed? If not maybe email Brompton direct with details of your dealer etc and ask would they amend?
mjw
07-21-08, 01:31 PM
Even if the bike costs more at your LBS, it's worth buying there at least for the free tuneups.
iamstuffed
07-21-08, 01:35 PM
No need to amend the order. Calhoun had everything in stock, so they just changed the bike to an M6L and added the rack.
They should arrive Friday or Monday next week! I'll take pics.
Ivory bodies, Black extremities.
somnatash
07-21-08, 01:36 PM
Hi Somnetash interesting link to ebay for those wheels. Would this set of 4 not be better? See:
http://www.biketrax.co.uk/products.php?plid=m6b0s142p763
Hi mulleady,
I think its a matter of taste mainly. The brompton ez-wheels are a bit larger in diameter (57mm) compared to the ones hans sells (51mm). They are slimmer (12mm) than the white ones (13mm) and a tad lighter (32g to 34g each). I will probably test push both versions the next days and report again:)
somnatash
07-21-08, 01:53 PM
Can you post pictures of the hub and the chain tensioner? I just want to see the cable routing, and the differences between a stock tensioner and whatever modifications they did. It seems you have to modify the tensioner in some way to make the 19t fit, so I'm sure Kinetics did so.
I am sorry, I don't have a digital camera these days and will not be able to do it very soon. Perhaps this link (mod is not from Ben) is of some help:
http://bommy.exblog.jp/
Concerning the M+P Combination: Try it! I cant see why it should not work. Perhaps you have to shorten the cables. Exact cable length can be very crucial in the fold. I am curious: Why do you want M-Bars on P-Stem (looks, less hight?). Did you consider to get S-Stem and a normal riserbar?
fafnir
07-21-08, 03:40 PM
Calhoun is my local shop, bought a few bikes from them including my brommie, they are good folks to deal with. They also do some neat things, like this new brompton front wheel with custom phil wood hub and aeroheat rim. Nice- http://www.calhouncycleshopcast.com/?p=43
iamstuffed
07-23-08, 09:09 AM
They shipped today! I should get them early next week.