Long Distance Cycling - Using a go fast bike - how to carry junk

I like miles, finally getting time to put some in. I've been setting up a steel bike for comfortable and durable long distance work. Haven't ridden my regular go fast bike in a while.

Until yesterday.

Dang!

It's really comfortable, very stable, climbs like a rocket, and I don't get tired on it. It doesn't even have the optimal wheels for me. Of course, no eyelets, full carbon, 10 speed DA with a compact. Doesn't even like me carrying a messenger bag. Probably sensitive to steering input and just perfectly balanced only with a person on it. Descends like it's on rails. Drat.

Now I want to ride THAT one on weekend trips with enough gear to be self supporting all day. Food, water, repair supplies. And enough room for next day warmies for the morning. And a rain jacket. Not really very much, but more than a small seat bag, a small bar bag, and my pockets will ideally hold.

And I dont' want to spend lots of money on a Carradice Nelson or whatever. Unless I have to.

Physically, I can attach some race blade fenders to keep most of the junk off the bike and me.

What's likely to least impact the handling? I know I can pop a seat touring bag on. Suggestions for one less than the $XXX of the heavy British ones? That probably won't hurt things too bad.

On the front end, I know this thing doesn't like much in a slightly bouncy handlebar bag. Bounces steer the bike in corners. Not that it's twitchy, but it does what is asked very very quickly. I can rig a mount for a small front rack I have. Either P clamps (Have to figure how high up the aluminum fork tip goes) or an extender from the QR (no biggie to make). The top goes to the brake bolt. So I can put on small panniers I have or get a racktop/handlebar bag if I can find one. Why isn't that common anyway? These springloaded kangaroo hopping bags are such bad news. Suppose I can rig something.

Experiences doing this type of refit on a performance bike? What least impacts handling?

The bike is a Wilier "Thor" 73.5 x 72.35 HA, 45 mm rake, 410 CS, pretty standard slightly laid back performance bike, excellent stability and cornering, good smooth riding machine, currently set with American Classic "Victory" wheels I am learning to despise. Probably end up with Shimano hubs, 32 - 28 3x light butted rear except pulling spokes straight 14 and 2x bladed front. To some kind of medium light box rim. I'm at 165 lbs, bike at 18 lbs, probably carry addition 12 lbs, somewhere around there.


Yeah, probably not a big deal, but I'll be hitting 50 on the descents and can't have handling problems. I know I could slow down, but I also know it's unlikely once I'm grooved in on a drop.


Thanks much!! Figured you guys would know.

A handlebar bag will almost certainly degrade handling more than a large saddlebag on your bike. Mounting a handlebar bag low on a small rack will help minimize the effects, but you will probably find high speed descents to be a little scary - especially if there's a crosswind.

Most road bikes are better suited for a large saddlebag or a rack trunk.

You seem pretty well versed in your options. I will through out there the use of a second stem mounted under your primary stem with a steep negative rise and mount a handlebar bag off that. This may lower the weight of the bag enough for you. You could also look at the Rando rack by Nitto, check out VeloOrange for those.

Out back you could always look at a seatpost rack and trunk bag, just make sure you don't use a carbon post. You should be able to get plenty of supplies in that thing. Another option is the large seat bag by Carousel Designs. I have one of these and the craftsmanship is superb. The cost may be a bit too high for you though. Another option might be to get one of those bagman racks used to support the Carradice bags, and use a large silnylon bag used by ultralight campers (look at Sea to Summit, or OR). I bit of a jerry rig but light and fairly inexpensive.

Just a few suggestions for your consideration.

OP, check out carradice's "cape roll (http://www.wallbike.com/carradice/caperoll.html)" - much smaller/cheaper than their other offerings, and just enough to squeeze in a decent amount of junk too (but not too much).

i've been riding my Ciocc on LD rides lately, so i'm in the same boat (no full fenders, etc). like you, i like the feeling of using my "fast" bike as opposed to the "other" one.

anyway i've now got the Cape Roll hanging off the brooks, and a brooks "challenge (http://www.wallbike.com/brooks/bags/challengetool.html)" tool bag hanging off the cape roll. that way i can carry all my nifty tools along with extra clothes.

in regards to handlebar bags, i'm going to use a small one i found from Jandd. About the size of the cape roll, but zips up and attaches to the handlebars (my concern there is not blocking the dynohub light, which a large handlebar bag would, although a larger bag would certainly also affect steering).

Thanks for the Carousel suggestion. I have perused the concepts there and can "fake" that type of system I suspect. That will do. I'll put an email "I want one of your wonderful saddle bags" into his box and see whether he'll make a system for me! The "Cape Roll" links to that nicely as well. I can fake that also.

"Faked" system: Compression stuff sack with two straps as a soft saddle bag. Strap around post & strap around seat rails. And a roll above that, like the Cape Roll. For my rain & chill gear. Small bar bag for light junk I need access to. And behind that there's room to lash a compression sack under the bars. That should do it well enough. If it works, I'll buy the Carousel stuff built for my cool bike (eBay is amazing - nice that cool stuff is "obsolete" and cheap after a year).

I'm also highly disappointed that my Sidi shoes are soooooo much more effective and comfortable than than touring shoes. Dang. Lash those sandals on and ride in Sidis.

I have in my time been stranded in the mountains etc horror stories. And I've ridden heavy Bikecentennial BRPKWY etc. I just want that magic no-gear feel, but to have just enough when I get there, and be able to get there. And I can't afford full time motorcycle support. I'm getting the free places to stay when I get there. I know I'm supposed to be "slowing down" at increasingly over 50, but I'm still using the same position on a bike and almost the same gears as I did in my 20s, and I don't crash nearly as often!!!


Not that my Paramount and LeMond steel bikes aren't nice, but this stupid CR(A)P (carbon reinforced plastic) Wilier is just dreamy to ride. I even have (shudder) a carbon post. In my mind, I'm a lugged steel classic rider (I used to make steel frames - very pretty - very nice lugwork), but most annoying, this weird compact underfit pile of cloth and epoxy just beats the pants off them. Oh well.

Maybe I'll gradually get time to join you long distance boys. I have the legs and the lungs, it's just that support family, run a business time thing that gets in the way. I'm mentally ready to pack a bivy and a bag of cash and ride to New England!

I had the exact same problem when it came time to out fit my bike for doing brevets. I ride a GURU TRI-Lite road bike, not really the most ideal for rando riding but I have made it work.

At first I tired a handle bar bag and found that it was so eratic and it felt like I was going to endo constantly even flat stretches of road. In the end I settled on a seat post clamped rack and use an ARKEL trunk. Once again it's not the most ideal but it works and was pretty cheap. Plus I find that I can fit everything I need into the trunk for almost any length of brevet or light tour. The Arkel trunk has a very large amount of expansion and can hold a ton of stuff. But also opens up really easlily with everything in nice neat comaprtments.

Thanks for the Carousel suggestion. I have perused the concepts there and can "fake" that type of system I suspect. That will do. I'll put an email "I want one of your wonderful saddle bags" into his box and see whether he'll make a system for me!

Jeff is a really cool guy to work with. Again, his craftsmanship is top notch. Look through the photos on his flicker page, link on his site. There is a road bike full outfitted with a frame bag as well. I got a frame bag for my MTB. The handlebar roll is an interesting concept too.

I'm reluctant to use a clamp on seatpost rack. Carbon post, of course. Might scratch it. Which would lead to instant vaporization of the bike and a 10 m radius of everything else.

The handlebar bag I have "works" OK. Only for light stuff. If I load it up it soon becomes an unhappy companion - tested it.

I'll probably have a chance to test weight distribution some time this week.

Got to test my LeMond at speed this evening - thunderstorms rolling in and I needed to be home fast! It will move quick, but does take more work. Mainly I suppose it needs a better saddle. I have nut problems, so that's a "sore" point. Funny, my carbon bike feels so comfortable!

Detours Tailrider UL

Ah yes, valygrl, looks good, but I'm using an oversize carbon post about 200 miles long!

I was looking at this:

http://www.topeak.com/products/Bags/DynaPackDX

But chose a rack+trunk bag instead.

I'm reluctant to use a clamp on seatpost rack. Carbon post, of course. Might scratch it. Which would lead to instant vaporization of the bike and a 10 m radius of everything else.


You could swap out seatposts for a nice lightweight aluminum post when you want to use a trunk rack. Or simply swap out the post permanently and be done with it. You'll really never notice the difference and you'll be able to put any rack on the bike that you like. If the extra weight is bothersome, you could cut off any excess seatpost beyond the minimum insertion distance, but it's really not worth fussing over.

You could swap out seatposts for a nice lightweight aluminum post when you want to use a trunk rack. Or simply swap out the post permanently and be done with it. You'll really never notice the difference and you'll be able to put any rack on the bike that you like. If the extra weight is bothersome, you could cut off any excess seatpost beyond the minimum insertion distance, but it's really not worth fussing over.

+1 to what he/she said.

An aluminum post wouldn't match the carbon of the frame. I rather like the carbon post actually. Does make a difference. I like the Carousel approach, think I'll work on that. I don't really like suspended things. This machine is quite sensitive I think (I'm sort of immune to "sensitive" I suppose) and I'd rather have things tucked in and tied down well. Things on arms have a resonant frequency and those frequencies sometimes line up with other resonances in interesting ways!

I think I've run into the same effect that had me running a standard steel stage race bike with Campy NR and tubulars for touring in the 1970s. My "touring" bike was great for groceries, but I liked the go fast gear for long days.

how bout a bagman expedition and your choice of waterproof stuff sacks lashed on there? bagman mounts to the saddle rails, is usually used for supporting a nelson or larger carradice, and comes on and off in an minute.

or you could just get a nelson, even in the 'super c' configuration. maybe you could spec it with carbon buckles to match your bike.

or a nitto / riv mark's rack on back or front.

or a tubus fly - down to the stays and use a p clamp around the seatpost (i did this on my carbon steel lemond for my first brevet series)

+1 on adding an extra stem with no or negative rise - i used this on several bikes with an ortlieb h-bar bag and had good luck with little influence on steering. it was also nice to have the map case and a camera up front.

but if you are looking at carousel it seems you'll end up spending $$ - probably the same as for a nelson.
you could also opt for the super c saddlepack larger than most saddle bags, but smaller than most carradice bags.

or try an ortlieb saddlebag - they mount to the rails. the large size holds a ton, and i've lashed stuff to the outside. combine this with a small bar bag and you'd be set, although you won't be carrying a sleeping pad or tent. and your clothing choices will be limited.

or an extra wheel trailer. then you get your stuff in bags like you want, but off the bike. ;)

I have a go fast bike too. Since I hate backpacks, that is a big problem. Large handlebar bags, just don't mix with race bikes. One of the reasons, I ride my race bike far less than my commute and tourer bike. I use my bikes mostly for errands. I'd say, get a second bike. A tour bike will carry far more stuff. Be sure it has braze ons for panniers./ I still use by race bike when my mood suits that purpose. And for club rides.

This is what you need combined with a Carousel large seat bag or stuff sack tied to the seat and seat post. From Epic Designs they are custom made to your bike specs I believe.

I too hate handlebar bags as they mess up the bike handling and interfere with my hand positions on the bar. I think you could rig something like this up pretty cheap or have one made.

This is what you need combined with a Carousel large seat bag or stuff sack tied to the seat and seat post. From Epic Designs they are custom made to your bike specs I believe.

I too hate handlebar bags as they mess up the bike handling and interfere with my hand positions on the bar. I think you could rig something like this up pretty cheap or have one made.


i've heard of folks rubbing their knees on those... with a narrow tread (Q) crank and standing climbing this may be a concern. you couldn't really overstuff either.

i know when i use my bento box i rub the edge of my knees on it occassionally... esp when standing to climb.

i've heard of folks rubbing their knees on those... with a narrow tread (Q) crank and standing climbing this may be a concern. you couldn't really overstuff either.

i know when i use my bento box i rub the edge of my knees on it occassionally... esp when standing to climb.

I suppose you could if you stuffed it too full but that is not the point. It should be no wider than 2-3 inches when stuffed. There is another model that is smaller which might even be better since we are talking ultralight here. Just enough to hold some tools and energy bars, a cell phone. And it should stay out of the knees to a greater extent.

I think I've got it conceptually handled now. Changes in thinking are the most important. I'll do a mockup soon and then make orders for whatever custom stuff makes sense.

I do have other bikes that are supposed to be better for long distance. 853 steel with fenders etc. A nice older Paramount. But this CR(A)P bike of plastic glue and cloth just rides so dang well. It's really disappointing. As a former artsy steel frame builder I just KNOW that beautiful cast lugs and steel MUST work better than some pile of cloth and glue. But there's that actual road experience of a modern bike. Dang.

Thanks all for the suggestions. I've reconceptualized the light fast thinking.

Here is a link to Epic Designs if you wish to browse for some more ideas.

http://epicdesigns-ak.blogspot.com/

Here is a link to Epic Designs if you wish to browse for some more ideas.

http://epicdesigns-ak.blogspot.com/

cool stuff...

JANDD also makes a frame bag similar to the epic designs
http://www.jandd.com/ProdImages/BicycleSeatBagsFramePacks/FramePack/FramePac.jpg (http://www.jandd.com/detail.asp?PRODUCT_ID=FFP)
(Click on image for link to site)

I have a carradice Nelson Longflap and a Bagman expedition.

I think the Nelson is brilliant, very weatherproof and light for it's size.

However, if you are used to a snap-handling fast bike you aren't going to like the feel of a saddlebag on a Bagman rack. It does bounce a bit, not throwing the bike out, but interfering with fast riding.

You really need something clamped down hard. If you can swing a small saddlebag from the saddle without the bagman, that would be fine.

I got an Epic Super Twinkie on the way. That, a light bar bag, and maybe a bar compression bag should do fine for a bit. I'm excited now. I miss touring, and I'm used to micro camping - my daughter and I do trips with almost nothing into the back country.

I know a nice closed road, too, that runs up into the Smokies. Foothills Parkway near Townsend, TN. I'll be able to run up there and stealth camp I'm sure. Not on my go-fast bike, but my moutain bike will work and the Super Twinkie will fit on that, too!

personally ive never had a problem with handling in regards to either my carradice/bagman combo or my detours bag.....go get yerself a thoson elite post, its black, light and strong....nobody can see it when yer riding anyhow!!!!

I think you have already rejected this, but .. I have a Giant TCR0 - CF seatpost, D-A 10SP w/FSA MegaExo CF Compact crank. Really not a touring or LD bike by any means. But..I sold my Litespeed and while waiting for it's replecment (Co-Motion Nor'Wester) I took the CF seat post of and put an old Al seat post on with a clamp on rack and Detours tail bag. Doesn't seem to affect the handling all that much (except slow speed) even with all my cra..stuff and my wife's stuff.

It will sure be nice to get it back to race form though so I can go get dropped at the Monday night Masters crit. ;-)

Got a compression sack the right size to go under the handlebar today. Works fine - no shake, nothing, invisible to handling. Holds my rain jacket and about double that if I want. That and the Super Twinkie on the way and I should be fine.

Came up with an idea for fork mounted bags. Will have to test it.

Yeah, I've rejected buying a new seatpost. Bad enough to have to buy the first one. It's a large diameter monstrosity. The Super Twinkie is getting expanded velcro for it.

Since I toasted a Ritchey rear hub, my budget is used up. Just a cone integral with the axle failure, but the part isn't available. Funny, I can get stuff for 1972 Campy hubs but not 2005 Ritchey hubs. Doesn't seem right not to be able to get a wearing part.

Experiences doing this type of refit on a performance bike? What least impacts handling?My own experience suggest a rack mounted off the seat post tube. Not sure about going up to 12 lbs - but a trunk bag has always been enough storage for any "all-day" rides I've completed.

My own experience suggest a rack mounted off the seat post tube. Not sure about going up to 12 lbs - but a trunk bag has always been enough storage for any "all-day" rides I've completed.

mandovoodooo doesn't want to give up his carbon post though...

[QUOTE=mandovoodoo;7103256]
Now I want to ride THAT one on weekend trips with enough gear to be self supporting all day. Food, water, repair supplies. And enough room for next day warmies for the morning. And a rain jacket. Not really very much, but more than a small seat bag, a small bar bag, and my pockets will ideally hold.

For a short tour, I don't think you need much more than a fanny pack if your touring in summer weather and in a civilized part of the world.
I just finished going around Lake Ontario (880km - 5 days)
My brother went from Toronto to Boston and back with the same fanny pack.
I carried basic tools and replacement part in a small seat bag and every thing else in my fanny pack.
You can see a picture of it on this webpage i made (Youngstown picture)
http://www.geocities.com/pathebikeguy/lakeontario

I do tend to take all feasible spares. I tend to be in wilderness out of reach of cell phone towers up in the mountains. I also tend to take enough emergency gear to survive a night without having to do a lot of keep-warm work.

I won't bother with all that down here, but I intend to go on roads with no support for many many miles, up to 6000 ft, etc. Gets wild pretty fast here up in the mountains.

Thus I'll have warmies, rain gear, food, medical, spares of everything, tools, flashies, headlight, space blanket, etc. Not probably as light as most would go, but I have been stranded and hurt before.

I'm also setting up for ultralight overnight stealth camping and for winter rides with a jetboil and more clothes.

Long fair weather rides in relative civilization I'm set up for, but nursing a wounded bike with dark coming at 5000 ft is a little different.

Here's a shakedown route: Friendsville to Robbinsville via the Dragon (http://www.mapmyride.com/route/us/tn/friendsville/126394484)

Not too remote. But that's a warmup for a two or three day trip to 6000 ft: Friendsville Cherahola Skyway Loop (http://www.mapmyride.com/ride/united-states/tn/friendsville/214617181) which is pretty remote in many places, with the option of nasty mountain storms.

Also, Smoky Mountain Loop (http://www.mapmyride.com/route/us/tn/friendsville/363895661) with opportunities for bad weather, stranding in odd places some rather steep and dangerous drops. Goes down the Dragon, of course. Pretty much for in-range going over the mountains from here I have 441 over the Smokies, the Dragon (which barely counts as a climb - a nice pass) and the Skyway. That's about it. Further south are some nice looking loops on roads I won't ride on. 441 and the Dragon are bad enough - I prefer them in the early morning. Neither is a problem. I think 441 averages 7% which I can do for hours. Our local roads often hit 15% and more, so I'm used to going up.

Take a look with satellite view and it's easy to see why I want to carry emergency supplies! Also gives me the option of staying out.

My bivy camping gear is pretty light, which is nice. I don't really have any problem zipping off into a national park and camping out of sight.

I experimented with fork blade mounted bags this morning. Can add two stuff sacks if I want. Have to build a brace, that's all. I could actually add a front rack, but a rack isn't payload. I have stuff that isn't payload!

Here's a shakedown route: Friendsville to Robbinsville via the Dragon (http://www.mapmyride.com/route/us/tn/friendsville/126394484)

Not too remote. But that's a warmup for a two or three day trip to 6000 ft: Friendsville Cherahola Skyway Loop (http://www.mapmyride.com/ride/united-states/tn/friendsville/214617181) which is pretty remote in many places, with the option of nasty mountain storms.

Also, Smoky Mountain Loop (http://www.mapmyride.com/route/us/tn/friendsville/363895661) with opportunities for bad weather, stranding in odd places some rather steep and dangerous drops. Goes down the Dragon, of course. Pretty much for in-range going over the mountains from here I have 441 over the Smokies, the Dragon (which barely counts as a climb - a nice pass) and the Skyway. That's about it. Further south are some nice looking loops on roads I won't ride on. 441 and the Dragon are bad enough - I prefer them in the early morning. Neither is a problem. I think 441 averages 7% which I can do for hours. Our local roads often hit 15% and more, so I'm used to going up.

Take a look with satellite view and it's easy to see why I want to carry emergency supplies! Also gives me the option of staying out.

My bivy camping gear is pretty light, which is nice. I don't really have any problem zipping off into a national park and camping out of sight.

I experimented with fork blade mounted bags this morning. Can add two stuff sacks if I want. Have to build a brace, that's all. I could actually add a front rack, but a rack isn't payload. I have stuff that isn't payload!

I just picked this Mark's rack so I can loop my hammock (in snakeskins) over the rack and down the fork blades. On top of that will be my sleeping bag or liner in a stuff sack, depending on temps.

In the Camper or Barley off the saddle and on a bagman will be the balance of my gear - cooking stuff (alky burner with small cup / cooker), clothes, etc.

I played around with using some plasticky stuff and bending around the fork and over and then wrapping the hammock - but the rack will be more versatile, as I use it for other tasks than just go somewhat fast rides. I'll also be able to adjust and keep my dyno lights mounted and still carry stuff. And I'll be able to carry bread without squishing. (http://www.bikeforums.net/showthread.php?t=443903)

If you can get a bottle cage below the down tube (3rd cage position) you can use it for tools/spares/1st aid kit even if a water bottle won't fit there. Lets you get some heavy stuff off the top of the bike.

+1 for the Carradice Barley. The Nelson is too big for day use. I put my tool kit and spares in one side pocket, snacks in the other and have plenty or room in the main part of the bag for pump, rain jacket, jersey etc. You might also look at the Acorn saddlebags. It's my experience that bags the side of the Barley only need a rack or other support on the smallest of bikes and because they are so close to the center of gravity of the bike they have little effect on the handling.

Epic Designs Super Twinkie & a handlebar bag seem to give enough room.

Extra bottle mount is an idea. There's just barely room. I'd have to zip tie the cage on over padding. That would work along side the fork blades, too!

Backpacks get no love here, but i like mine. I usually commute on my commuter bike that has lights, fenders, panniers and all. But when I have a short day, the weather is nice and i don't have to carry lots I ride my carbon Kestrel and wear a backpack. I am soooooo much faster it's a ball. Even with a lot in it it's still OK.

I've ridden 60 miles with the backpack with no problems or discomfort.

Riding your conditions, manvoodoo, and packing Thus I'll have warmies, rain gear, food, medical, spares of everything, tools, flashies, headlight, space blanket, etc. Not probably as light as most would go, but I have been stranded and hurt before.

I'm also setting up for ultralight overnight stealth camping and for winter rides with a jetboil and more clothes.

is more than you're going to be able to pack WITHOUT going to a large seatbag like a carradice or a handlebar bag on a rack.....

if you need a large carrying capacity without buying carradice, the biggest Ortlieb seatbag on Wilier might give you what you need, or the Jannd superseatbag. that one even has stabilizer straps that run from bag to rear dropout.

This was my set up for my weekend tour two weeks ago. I used a Bagman rack, Carradice Nelson Longflap attached to my Selle AnAtomica. The sleeping bag attached to the handlebar is not the best long term plan but actually worked pretty well. Over all the set up worked perfectly for my weekend trip. I will be looking at a better long term plan for more touring in the future.

http://i35.tinypic.com/11l1mo2.jpg

http://i37.tinypic.com/6h0qpl.jpg

My gear:
http://i33.tinypic.com/2wgyvxx.jpg

My kitchen:
http://i38.tinypic.com/jsy1j5.jpg

Gear List:
Sleeping Bag: Marmot Arroyo 35 deg (~16oz)
Sleeping Pad: Big Agnes something or other
Tent: Six Moon Designs Gatewood Cap silnyon poncho tarp
Stove: Cat food can
Pot/Bowl: Heineken can with bobble warp for insulation and aluminum flashing for windscreen
Lexan spoon
Fenix LED flashlight for camp and lights at night
Solar charger to charge the Garmin
Riding clothes for day 2
Camp clothes
Food: dehydrated Beef Stew, instant Oatmeal dried cherries

That looks great. I tried to buy a Nelson. Couldn't really find one easily.

I've gotten busy again, maybe in a week or two I can get out for an overnighter. Running a business is busy.

I tried to buy a Nelson. Couldn't really find one easily.

Call Peter White. They had everything in stock and mailed to me via 2 Day UPS.

This was my set up for my weekend tour two weeks ago. I used a Bagman rack, Carradice Nelson Longflap attached to my Selle AnAtomica. The sleeping bag attached to the handlebar is not the best long term plan but actually worked pretty well. Over all the set up worked perfectly for my weekend trip. I will be looking at a better long term plan for more touring in the future.


nice.
going to do the same here in september over to the ADKs or somewhere in the greens.
i'll swap the barley for my camper long flap.
hennessy hammock, trangia (or homemade) stove, lightweight cooking kit, fleece sleeping bag lliner (maybe full bag), bottom insulation (depending on temps in the mountains)... etc. etc.

here's a pic from my 300k (barley on the back, rain cape rolled on the front). might be able to fit everything in the camper - but if i need my heavier bag it will ride on the mark's rack up front. i figure i can get my kit for a quick long weekend, maybe even a week's tour to fit with this setup.

http://lh6.ggpht.com/mike.beganyi/SJZZNwVIV5I/AAAAAAAAFxs/aMWGomCfzRU/s800/IMG_5243.JPG

Riding your conditions, manvoodoo, and packing

is more than you're going to be able to pack WITHOUT going to a large seatbag like a carradice or a handlebar bag on a rack.....

if you need a large carrying capacity without buying carradice, the biggest Ortlieb seatbag on Wilier might give you what you need, or the Jannd superseatbag. that one even has stabilizer straps that run from bag to rear dropout.

the large ortlieb isn't all that large - and if flops around quite a bit.

here it is:

http://lh6.ggpht.com/mike.beganyi/RSLplbMeABI/AAAAAAAAABE/UF8dq1-3LEY/s800/IMG_1926.JPG

http://lh5.ggpht.com/mike.beganyi/RSLz7dthABI/AAAAAAAAAFA/tyylSVSszUw/s800/005_2A.JPG


can't find a side view...

i've heard of folks rubbing their knees on those... with a narrow tread (Q) crank and standing climbing this may be a concern. you couldn't really overstuff either.

i know when i use my bento box i rub the edge of my knees on it occassionally... esp when standing to climb.

I did a ~170km ride on the weekend and used a "bento box" (High 5 brand actually) and found the same thing. There was a lot of climbing involved in the ride and the first few hours I was getting pretty pi$$ed off at the bag (knees rubbing), almost to the point of ripping it off the bike and throwing it away. I persevered however and with a slightly bow-legged riding technique and got pretty used to it by the end of the ride.

You can't actually put much in them though. I bought a pack of jelly beans and they barely fitted in. Not big enough for a banana (maybe a real small banana).

My main problem with storage is clothing. It was cool when I started my ride (about 2 deg C) so I had a light thermal, a light S/S summer jersey and a winter L/S jersey as well as leg warmers. About 1/4 of the way through the ride it warmed up to about 14 deg C I had to stop and take of the winter jersey and leg warmers and full finger gloves. I managed to stuff them in the rear pockets of the jersey, but only just.

Food is the other issue. I took three bananas with me, stuffed in my rear jersey pocket (actually had a fourth banana already peeled and cut into bit sizes in a plastic bag in the bentos box as an experiment but it was virtually inedible when I went to eat it. I would of liked to carry more bananas but didn't have the room (only one shop on route and it didn't sell food, closest thing was jelly beans).

In the saddle bag I carry two spare tubes, a tyre lever (could probably squeeze 3 tubes in if I really wanted) and I can also store a credit card and some cash in a plastic bag in the saddle bag as well. Maybe room for a pair of gloves, definitely no room for food or other clothing.

I was contemplating on of those triangle bags but figured I'd probably have the same knee rubbing problem and can't really carry any more by the looks so I've pretty much discounted them for now.

I am contemplating a Camelbak type bag without the bladder, load it up with bananas and jerseys and spare tubes (because I plan to ditch the saddlebag in favour of seatpost drink bottles holder). I will have to go for another long ride to see if I can cope with this setup.

The other issue I had, non-bag related, was I was wearing bib knicks for the first time and while they fitted great they were a bit of a problem when the call of nature came. Luckily I only had to do a #1.