Living Car Free - Does Utopia exist? it does here in Peachtree City, GA. Check it out.

This is a great example of pseudo logic. If you're trying to make a point here, you failed. Bicycles on the roadway are at great risk from drivers under the influence of (drugs, alcohol, anger, depression, distraction, etc).

So are other drivers. So are pedestrians. So are animals. So are buildings, for that matter. (One reads all the time about drivers smashing into stores, houses, etc.)]

This is a bicycle forum. We're discussing the mortal danger CYCLISTS face while sharing the road with cars. You're trying to make a point, by saying buildings are in danger from automobiles??
You can try to change the subject matter from cars and bicycles, to cars and buildings...but you're grabbing at straws.

By your logic, the streets are more dangerous than we realized, even buildings are in danger and we need to get all cyclist's OFF the roads!

Sounds nearly perfect except for one, huge issue: Southern summers. I live just north of you (TN) and the thing I absolutely despise more than anything about this place is the horrible summer weather. I'm completely miserable from the end of May through September, so any place I move will have to be considerably cooler.

That was my thought too. Tennessee is north of GA and I know Tennessee is warm. And why do I know that you may ask? To borrow from Robert W. Service's The Cremation of Sam McGee: " Please close that door. It keeps out the cold and storm. This is the first time since Peachtree back in Tennessee that I've been warm."

And we get called snobs a lot by the surrounding communities because we like our town clean and neat.

i.e. They refuse to let MARTA, the local mass transit for the Atlanta Metro Area, expand service to their city. I live/work in downtown Atlanta and several people that I work with live in Peachtree City. None of them support MARTA even though it would mean a safer, environmentally sound commute into Atlanta. "...don't want the rif-raf MARTA brings in."

This is a bicycle forum. We're discussing the mortal danger CYCLISTS face while sharing the road with cars. You're trying to make a point, by saying buildings are in danger from automobiles??
You can try to change the subject matter from cars and bicycles, to cars and buildings...but you're grabbing at straws.

By your logic, the streets are more dangerous than we realized, even buildings are in danger and we need to get all cyclist's OFF the roads!
You sure are barking up the wrong tree, smasher. Most of us in bikeforums ride many miles (about 5,000 per year, in my case) on city streets and high speed rural highways. We've taken the time to learn how to do this safely and efficiently. If that's currently above your skill level, scroll through a few more threads before you again prove your ignorance of the basic facts of safe street cycling.

Now, let's try to rescue the thread from smasher's troll-like messages.

One thing that strikes me about Peachtree City is the feeling I'm getting that it's a very upscale community. The ethnic diversity of the city was mentioned, but I wonder about economic diversity. Would the Peachtree lifestyle be possible in a city with more typical income levels? Why or why not? And how high are the taxes there?

You sure are barking up the wrong tree, smasher. Most of us in bikeforums ride many miles (about 5,000 per year, in my case) on city streets and high speed rural highways. We've taken the time to learn how to do this safely and efficiently. If that's currently above your skill level, scroll through a few more threads before you again prove your ignorance of the basic facts of safe street cycling.

Now, let's try to rescue the thread from smasher's troll-like messages.

One thing that strikes me about Peachtree City is the feeling I'm getting that it's a very upscale community. The ethnic diversity of the city was mentioned, but I wonder about economic diversity. Would the Peachtree lifestyle be possible in a city with more typical income levels? Why or why not? And how high are the taxes there?

Davis, CA has an extensive network of bicycling paths, that were designed for bicyclists to get around town on bicycles. The biggest difference is that it's not a golf community, rather the city recognizes and encourages bicycle travel for both recreation, and as a non-polluting form of transportation. Davis also has one of the highest 'commute by bike' rates in the nation, due to the network of paths across the city, and the city's dedication to bicycling.

Glad you found someplace where you're happy.


Are you stoned, or stupid?? I made the above post days ago, you just posted tonight and didn't even read this thread, just the last post I made on this page, that was a response to another member. Is today a special occasion for you, or are you always this stupid?

The best cycling skills in the world won't make you immune from being hit by a car as you try to imply. Experienced and skilled cyclists are killed on the roads all the time, due to dangerous drivers.

I've ridden close to 4,000 miles in six months. If all you've ridden is 5,000 miles per year, maybe you should be riding more, and posting less on BF, before trying to brag about your 'skills & experience'!

I forgot to mention a couple things: Diversity is good here. In my neighborhood there are Venezuelans, Indians (from India) African-Americans, etc.

If there's one thing I've learned living in the South is that you should never judge someone by the color of his skin. That's an excuse by the lazy, inconsiderate (and usually uneducated) populace to continue degrading stereotypes.

What I learned is that poverty is what causes these problems in the various ethnic (and white) communities across this nation. Race has nothing to do with it.

The Iranians, Venezuelans, African-Americans, Mexicans, Indians, Koreans and others who I interact with in my community are businessmen, doctors, teachers, pilots, etc. They won't fit into any lame stereotype someone wants to throw at them.

The only things missing from this community (and we really need them) are a Trader Joes and a good Indian restaurant.

Dude, Fairmont, I have no idea where you come from originally buy you are just wrong on your commentary of the ethnic minorities in PTC.

The predominately black neighborhood is literally on the other side of the rail-road tracks from the rest of town and is about to be gentrified out of existence. (You know, Wynnmeade) and the other one is mostly sec-8 housing (Harmony Village), and it really is segregated like that. The US Census Bureau states that PTC is 75% white, 13% black, 6% other (since hispanic isnt listed I will let you draw your own conclusions) and 4% asian the remaining is Pac Islander/Native American etc. While the rest of the state of Georgia has nearly double the black population. And when I graduated from MHS in a class of 300 there were less than 50 minorities. Im sorry to go off on that non-bike related rant but people using their personal experiences (ie. I know a minority so there must be tons of them) dosent reflect the actual situation here. You also ought to think about what causes the huge gap between the races within poverty statistics, like America's vast and devastating history of economic discrimination. And the cops here in PoliceTree City also pull over any junky looking car or car with any minor problem such as "license plate light being out" as I was busted once for. They dont call it a planned community because they wanted it to be racially diverse. And people dont say "rif-raf" when they say they dont want MARTA in PTC, they use other terms.

Oh, is the Venezuelan you know named Jose, he might make you call him Joe, is bald and lives in Centennial, hes a good guy.

Also, Ive lived here since middle school and I can tell you that I have never felt more scared on a bicycle than riding on the cart paths, Id rather be on I-85 with cars bombing past me at 80 mph or the northern suburbs. Most people who drive golf carts are either old (ie too old to drive real cars) or young, you only have to be 15 to drive a g-ride, and I swear Ive seen children as young as 8 driving golf carts un-assisted. And the young people are probably stoned, I should know, I used to be one of them. You will also encounter the golfer (Delta Pilot, who only works 80 hours a month) coming back from a nice round of golf (drinking heavily) and they are worse than the young people. You also have people walking dogs (trip wires with teeth), and low branches.

Also, the people in this city/district have seen fit to elect and re-elect Lynn Westmorland, who is an idiot. http://www.comedycentral.com/colbertreport/videos.jhtml?videoId=70730

I will say this though, PTC is great, its a great place to grow up, the schools are good, theres always somewhere to do drugs at night without much risk of police interference. The golf cart thing is great, they are fun to drive when you are on drugs and you probably wont hurt anyone because they top out at about 20 mph, the traffic is offset that much by golf carts, there are no traffic jams except at one or two stop signs when schools let out. It is probably the best suburb of Atlanta to live and cycle, especially compared to Cobb and Gwinette, I would walk my bike before I rode it on the streets with those psychos.

Also, I think that City Smasher's overall point that more car-free options would be nice is valid, I would use the paths here except for the golf carts, so Im not exactly sure why people's responses to him got off topic.

Are you stoned, or stupid?? I made the above post days ago, you just posted tonight and didn't even read this thread, just the last post I made on this page, that was a response to another member. Is today a special occasion for you, or are you always this stupid?

The best cycling skills in the world won't make you immune from being hit by a car as you try to imply. Experienced and skilled cyclists are killed on the roads all the time, due to dangerous drivers.

I've ridden close to 4,000 miles in six months. If all you've ridden is 5,000 miles per year, maybe you should be riding more, and posting less on BF, before trying to brag about your 'skills & experience'!

The abusive language isn't necessary, or even allowed per forum guidelines. Please delete it from your message, and I'll delete the quoted part here.

I don't want this thread to evolve into a bike path debate, because that wouldn't be fair to the OP, who has brought up an interesting topic. However, if you ever want to get involved in the bike path issue, I can refer you to the Advocacy & Safety subforum here at bikeforums. They have a lot of heated ad hominem debates that might be more to your liking. This here is generally a more friendly subforum.

:)

Hate heat? What, you can't stand a little heat four hours a day for three months in the summer? I have driven my MG's with a/c of course for the last thirty years and I also hate heat. Just avoid those few hours in the summer and you never notice the heat.

As an aside, most people in Atlanta are not native Atlantans or even from the general area. That is for a number of reasons, climate being one of the attractions for people moving here. I grew up in Atlanta and the Peachtree City area and now I find it interesting how many people wear shorts 350 days a year! Yeah, it is that mild.

Heat? What heat?;)

dave

Well I am a native Atlantan, 37 years worth and I hate our heat. 3 months? More like 6, of course it's not just the heat its the humidity and the fact that Atlanta is full of hills. Our city has many nice aspects but it's no cycling paradise.

The abusive language isn't necessary, or even allowed per forum guidelines. Please delete it from your message, and I'll delete the quoted part here.

I don't want this thread to evolve into a bike path debate, because that wouldn't be fair to the OP, who has brought up an interesting topic. However, if you ever want to get involved in the bike path issue, I can refer you to the Advocacy & Safety subforum here at bikeforums. They have a lot of heated ad hominem debates that might be more to your liking. This here is generally a more friendly subforum.

:)

You want me to retract my response to you...maybe sometime in the 11th eternity! You attacked me first, then you try to say I have to follow Bikeforum guidelines re: abusive language? You attack me, then claim this is a friendly forum? That doesn't make sense, unless your idea of 'friendly', is attacking someone, like you did to me!

This thread is about a community with an extensive system of bike paths, and my responses have been SUPPORTIVE of that. Yet you criticize me, for debating in favor of the pathway system....in favor of this thread? Take this up with Elkhound who stated, "Creating a separate system of paths for bicycles sends the message that bikes don't belong on the paths already designated for them by law, a/k/a the streets". (Post #38).

You're steamed because I think cyclists deserve their own system of pathways, and don't belong on the roads anymore. Considering this thread is about cyclists having their own system of pathways, maybe you should go somewhere else, since this thread didn't turn nasty until you jumped in last night, and attacked me for having a different POV than yours!


You sure are barking up the wrong tree, smasher. Most of us in bikeforums ride many miles (about 5,000 per year, in my case) on city streets and high speed rural highways. We've taken the time to learn how to do this safely and efficiently. If that's currently above your skill level, scroll through a few more threads before you again prove your ignorance of the basic facts of safe street cycling.

Now, let's try to rescue the thread from smasher's troll-like messages.

One thing that strikes me about Peachtree City is the feeling I'm getting that it's a very upscale community. The ethnic diversity of the city was mentioned, but I wonder about economic diversity. Would the Peachtree lifestyle be possible in a city with more typical income levels? Why or why not? And how high are the taxes there?

You want me to retract my response to you...maybe sometime in the 11th eternity! You attacked me first, then you try to say I have to follow Bikeforum guidelines re: abusive language? You attack me, then claim this is a friendly forum? That doesn't make sense, unless your idea of 'friendly', is attacking someone, like you did to me!

This thread is about a community with an extensive system of bike paths, and my responses have been SUPPORTIVE of that. Yet you criticize me, for debating in favor of the pathway system....in favor of this thread? Take this up with Elkhound who stated, "Creating a separate system of paths for bicycles sends the message that bikes don't belong on the paths already designated for them by law, a/k/a the streets". (Post #38).

You're steamed because I think cyclists deserve their own system of pathways, and don't belong on the roads anymore. Considering this thread is about cyclists having their own system of pathways, maybe you should go somewhere else, since this thread didn't turn nasty until you jumped in last night, and attacked me for having a different POV than yours!

After re-reading my own post, I realize that you are absolutely right. I didn't mean to attack you, but I did, and for that I apologize. I would like to remove my offensive remarks, if that's OK with you.

However, I still disagree with your implicit argument that safe cycling on streets is impossible. As I pointed out, most forum users do ride safely in traffic, provided they have learned basic skills and techniques. I'm not sure that I even disagree with your basic premise that designing a community with an extensive off-street system, like Peachtree City, is a bad idea. It seems that in most cases, it would be more efficient (cheaper) to encourage street cycling. A good way to do that, IMO, would be to promote education of both cyclists and motorists, and foster a culture where road sharing is better accepted.