Hi all
I'm new here
When I was 15 I was lean, slender and active and my favorite activity was biking.
The my family moved and I got sedentary and fat.
I have been brainwashed into believing that my only chance to get in shape again
was weight training bb-style. You know: eating lot of foods every 3 hours, eating lot of protein powders,
4-5 workouts a week with heavy weights and NO CARDIO.

The result is that I got bulky and large and while people at the gym think this is great I hate it.
I wanted my constitutional lean long muscles not ridges of bulky large muscles.
My aggressivity has increased and my coordination, flexibility and balanced has decreased.

I'd like to recover my love for biking and indeed lose muscle mass.
Is there a way to use biking as a cardio to get lean, slender and lose excessive muscle mass?
I plan to get skinny enough with a good amount of cardio and then to start slowly developing
my muscles in more harmonious and functional way, so I can be lean and slender but not bulky.

Any thought?
Thanks

SJ

Trying to lose muscle mass is not an issue that comes up often.

If it were me, I would just start riding. I wouldn't flat out stop lifting - I'd switch to something like low weights high reps for a while and taper back. You should be able to "recompose" your body by working up some endurance and then doing long rides while working enough of a caloric deficit for your body to start burning up some of the muscle bulk you have. Don't expect fquick results - it should take at least as long as you spent getting bulky. For flexibility, coordination, and balance, you may want to try something like pilates, yoga, or martial arts.

Also, check the "crossfit" forums...you'll probably get better advice there.

unless your still sporting some nice abs I can't see why you'd wanna loose muscle

if your too bulked up changed your lifting regimen

what are your current number of sets and reps generally speaking in the 10-15 range you will "tone" more and not increase your size

in the 2-6 range you will get stronger

I believe 8-12 was proven to be the best range for adding mass fro the vast majority of people

for flexibility make sure you doing cardio before liftin them stretch it out thne lift and stretch agian after worknig out

you sohlud not be working out cold or you will eventually get injured

Well I don't want to lose all the muscles.
I want to lose all the excess useless muscles that even the body I'm sure considers a meaningless burden.
I have became too big and bulky and I don't like it and all the muscles that make me bulky are just a
surplus my body doesn't need. Oh yes, I was in the 8-11 reps range.

Thank you for your suggestions they're very usefull.
So how much cardio (i.e. biking) should I do daily and how long a daily session should be for my goal?

SJ

I was in a similar situation where I was pretty bulked up but also some fat 6ft tall ~235 lbs. I totally changed my workout routine and am way better off. Especially after reading that your heart has to work just as harder when you have more mass wether it is fat or muscle.

What I did was stopped lifting heavy weights and just do some very light weights at home for upper body every 3 days, do situps and back exercises everyday (like 10 min or so nothing major). I stopped eating as much (this was hardest thing to do ha!) and then started biking quite abit. I commute into work ~22miles a day and throw in a longer ride on Saturday ~40-50mi and on Sunday I take off from biking usually. I'm now at 175lbs and much more leaner. I've been doing this for about 4-5 years now and enjoy it much better than the whole gym thing. Good luck!

I was in a similar situation where I was pretty bulked up but also some fat 6ft tall ~235 lbs. I totally changed my workout routine and am way better off. Especially after reading that your heart has to work just as harder when you have more mass wether it is fat or muscle.

What I did was stopped lifting heavy weights and just do some very light weights at home for upper body every 3 days, do situps and back exercises everyday (like 10 min or so nothing major). I stopped eating as much (this was hardest thing to do ha!) and then started biking quite abit. I commute into work ~22miles a day and throw in a longer ride on Saturday ~40-50mi and on Sunday I take off from biking usually. I'm now at 175lbs and much more leaner. I've been doing this for about 4-5 years now and enjoy it much better than the whole gym thing. Good luck!

Thanks for your reply rapidskies
I'm enthused to hear from someone who had the same experience and found a solution
So basically you did cardio everyday and weights three times a week.
What about back exercises? Which ones you did?

If you've been bulking the bb way in the gym you certainly know the "eat every 2-3 hours" and "eat a lot" mantras. At the beginning it's hard but they say that you must form an habit and when you finally made an habit of it you're so proud of yourself ... well, I wish I hadn't made an habit of it because now it's so hard to break. Since you found a solution to this problem, can you give me dietary advices and some hints from your diet? What I'm expecially looking for is a dietary regimen where I can feel light and satiated rather than bloated and overfed all the time.

Thanks again
SJ

If you've been bulking the bb way in the gym you certainly know the "eat every 2-3 hours" and "eat a lot" mantras. At the beginning it's hard but they say that you must form an habit and when you finally made an habit of it you're so proud of yourself ... well, I wish I hadn't made an habit of it because now it's so hard to break. Since you found a solution to this problem, can you give me dietary advices and some hints from your diet? What I'm expecially looking for is a dietary regimen where I can feel light and satiated rather than bloated and overfed all the time.

You were probably eating a lot of protein to bulk up. Eat more carbs. Especially fruits and other foods with a lot of fiber. Eat small quantities frequently. I probably eat something small nearly every hour.

Thanks for your reply rapidskies
I'm enthused to hear from someone who had the same experience and found a solution
So basically you did cardio everyday and weights three times a week.
What about back exercises? Which ones you did?

If you've been bulking the bb way in the gym you certainly know the "eat every 2-3 hours" and "eat a lot" mantras. At the beginning it's hard but they say that you must form an habit and when you finally made an habit of it you're so proud of yourself ... well, I wish I hadn't made an habit of it because now it's so hard to break. Since you found a solution to this problem, can you give me dietary advices and some hints from your diet? What I'm expecially looking for is a dietary regimen where I can feel light and satiated rather than bloated and overfed all the time.

Thanks again
SJ

Yeppers lots of cardio which = fun on a bike. I toned down the weights which always seemed more like work to lighter weights at home. The back exercises I just stick my legs under the couch while on my stomach, put hands behind head and arch up (I do this with situps because I threw my back out twice try to keep a strong core).

The diet questions are better left to others as I don't have the best diet but just try and eat less calories than I burn (smaller portions). So instead of the 2 giagantic pieces of pizza I get 1. Take care!

Eat less but keep doing your lifting. Your bigness is determined by how much you eat. Don't worry about "toning" with high reps, thats a myth. Also, keep your protein intake up, protein won't add bulk if your eating at a deficit. Eating more carbs may cause you to overeat since they will not fill you up as much.

Eat less but keep doing your lifting. Your bigness is determined by how much you eat. Don't worry about "toning" with high reps, thats a myth. Also, keep your protein intake up, protein won't add bulk if your eating at a deficit. Eating more carbs may cause you to overeat since they will not fill you up as much.

If toning with high reps is a myth, what causes toning?
Other than "defined and big" and "skinny fat" there's also the toned physique.
If I look at pics of me at 10 I was fattier than now but not flabby and neither puffy. The only word that comes to mind when looking at those pics is "toned"
What causes such phyque?

What people call "toned" is just low body-fat percentage combined with enough muscle to look decent. If you are constantly bulking up, you will likely gain some fat since you need to eat alot of calories to gain significant muscle mass. However, you can go on a cut and lose the fat and leave most of the muscle behind. You can look just as "toned" at 250lbs as you do at 175 if you have low levels of body-fat.

But at 250lbs and low levels of body-fat I would look bulky and huge rather than toned and lean, right?

To me "toned" is when muscles supports body tone without being too visible, meaning that the muscles are there and shaping the body but they're not popping out and forming ridges.

You would be huge but have a good shape. The main point I'm trying to make is just try to get your body fat levels down first before cutting alot of muscle, it's not easy building that stuff up!

Eat less....Cardio, cardio, cardio....oh and more cardio. You have to make your body go into a catablolic state, and then you'll loose muscle mass (bulk).

Its easy for me unfortunatley I battle against it with L glutamine & high protein.

I think you ahve your terms messed up, Also even when you where wanting to build muscle you never ever stop stretching even the hugest body builders are flexible , evne more so then other people. If you want the long muscle you have to stretch. As for the toned thing what some otehr said about is pretty much on, Lower body fat is pretty much toned. I suggest to taper off what ever your diet is. Count your calories try to take out 100 to 200 calories off of what you burn daily, its pretty tricky actually, but dont go cold turkey on anyhting your use to taking gotta taper off just like people have said above. Taper off the stogner protein shakes, and try to use like half a scoop of protein in your recovery shakes if you use recovery shakes. Biggest thing in my mind is to burn more calories than you take in and the body fat you have built up with start bo get burned off little by little. Also when you have a lower body fat and you do cardio your body will start eating the muslce instead of fat when you do longer runs/rides, that why you notice cross country runners look so skinny also the reason why its hard for a person with a natural slim body type to gain muscle when they still do allot of cardio since they build some muscle but oucne they go for a long run or ride the body eats it up a little. I mean its minimal its just makes it harder for the slim people to gian muscle mass etc. But for you just count calories taper off your muscle building plan and switch to a slight weightloss plan. Try to make it a slow transfer over, it will make it easier for you in the long run and let your body adapt easier. HOpe i helped if i said any information that is wrong please correct me. L8er

I think you ahve your terms messed up, Also even when you where wanting to build muscle you never ever stop stretching even the hugest body builders are flexible , evne more so then other people. If you want the long muscle you have to stretch. As for the toned thing what some otehr said about is pretty much on, Lower body fat is pretty much toned. ....

Thanks for your reply, very usefull
Sorry for being obsessive but I still need to understand something.
If "toned" is just low body fat then what's the difference between toned and ripped and bulky?
I mean when I think of being toned I imagine a relatively flat firm body. Now that's the word: firmness. I want to be firm but I don't want muscles popping out. My legs and my arms should be firm but "smooth" with no hills of muscles. I want to slide with my hand over my arm or leg and feel no mounds along the way.

Tonned
http://www.seasonedwithlove.com/abs.jpg

http://www.coloradoproshow.com/images/OxygenCover-KristalRichardson.jpg


Ripped
http://farm3.static.flickr.com/2131/2093391045_f3e9bcb10c.jpg?v=0

http://images.google.com/url?q=http://www.musclewithattitude.com/img/photos/07-FIG037-training/image032.jpg&usg=AFQjCNEvmcGl3vDhO7w14mQr_lCgp-PieQ

Bulky
http://www.t-nation.com/img/photos/2008/08-038-training/image003.jpg

http://www.personalpowertraining.net/Aurelia%20Grozajova%20female%20bodybuilder%20germany%202.jpg

Thanks for the pics
I know understand the differences visually.
But I still have to understand what happens in the body, I mean what makes a person ripped instead of bulky or toned instead of ripped.

Thanks for the pics
I know understand the differences visually.
But I still have to understand what happens in the body, I mean what makes a person ripped instead of bulky or toned instead of ripped.

They all require low body fat, the difference is all just in the size of the muscles. Body builders will be bulky, most serious/elite athletes would tend to be ripped, and recreational athletes would probably fall under toned. I'm talking generally of course, there will always be exceptions.

FWIW, I only posted pictures of women because when I was searching for general pics, the results were mostly gay porn :eek:

You might want to look into isometrics/isotonics instead, a la Charles Atlas with modern updates. Studies I've seen quoted in books show it typically provides higher strength to bulk and better range of mobility than conventional lifting.

Thanks for the pics
I know understand the differences visually.
But I still have to understand what happens in the body, I mean what makes a person ripped instead of bulky or toned instead of ripped.

I think it's a combination of genetics, steroids, how much you are eating, how much cardio you are doing, and how much (and how) you are lifting.

Bodybuilders (bulky) tend to do more high rep lifting which stimulates muscle growth through increased muscle cell fluid (sarcoplasm), generally no increase in strength but you look bigger.

The other type is myofibrilliar which increases the size of the fiber by gaining myofibrils through lower reps as a result of putting more tension on those fibers.

This is just what I am trying to remember so please correct any mistakes.

ok most bulky people are either super genetically that way, most people arent like this. You got bulky kuz you were lifting mass amounts of weights. Your body adjusted to that, thats what the body is suppost to do adapt. See the reason why your bulky is you werent moving while lifting weights i mena you where but it didnt require speed etc. so your body forcused on all strength so naturally you muscles are bulky and very strong but not very speedy sort ta speak. If you do more cardio and a less weight your body will attempt to adapt to make your cardio workouts easier, btw make sure you make your cardio harder and harder, just like when you try to build muscle you have to keep upping the i guess hardness couldnt rmemeber the better word for it. Taper off the heavy weight, of course do it a little slower dont just cut it out cold turkey your body will have a hard time. Find some type of cardio you like. Isometrics aint bad either. I do plyo but im not trying to get smalle rim trying to get bigger without loosing my speed heh. so i suggest like said above more cardio less weights, you dont have to stop lifting all together just try higher reps less weight. If your really serious talk to a kinesiology major or if your really serious about understanding take a couple classes at your local college. Good ones would be intro into kinesiology, care and prevention of injury, weights, and sports nutrition. After doing those classes you can actually be a perosnal trainer also just gotta pass the test and get your certification ha. but thats a bit overkill, just get in contact with a kinesiology major or a good personal trainer soemwhere. I stress good personal trainer also some guys are just the ones that try to get you all bulked and get payed ectra to push muscle building products etc. try to find a perosn who knows allround how the body works, and knows how to strengthen any of your skills whether strength speed etc. they can explain and probably design what kind of workout you need to do.

Do you know why children are always toned? I mean obesity is rising even among the younger people and now that it's summer I have to say unfortunately I see a lot of overweight young children. But the point is they never look flabby. Whether they're skinny, normal or plain fat, they look toned and firm anyway but never flabby or untoned.

I want to say that I'm very glad I found this forum because I feel at home here.
I'm a young fitness and health enthusiast who looking for like-minded people and the best way to concretize my desire for ultimate health has always been brainwashed by whatever fanatics on the net. So when I was looking something about physical activity I either found the too soft fitness boards of steppers and girl aerobics or the too hard (and often cynical and vitriolic) boards of bodybuilding and steroids. And when I was looking something about diet I either found sloppy advices of eating everything in moderation (including french fries and what not) or the very fanatical world of fat diets. I seem to have found a serious informed balance in this forum and that's great.

I was in a similar situation where I was pretty bulked up but also some fat 6ft tall ~235 lbs. I totally changed my workout routine and am way better off. Especially after reading that your heart has to work just as harder when you have more mass wether it is fat or muscle.

I bumped this thread because I've seen I'm not the only one who abandoned bb-style bulkiness in favour of cardio leaness and I've found a lot of interesting explanation as to why many don't feel good when bulked up or why it is healthier to be slender and it's easier to be really lean when you're slender than when you're big.

1) Studies have shown that better health and longevity are correlated with slenderness and thinness. While comparing people with poor muscular tone with people with good muscular tone seems to suggest muscles make us younger and healthier, this doesn't mean that the more muscles we have the healthier and more longeve we are. Slenderness and the right amount of muscles are correlated with better health and longevity. Bulkiness and "bigness" are not.

2) Muscles grow in different ways. Functional moderate stimulus tend to make the muscular fibers bigger. Eccentric and concentric movements typical of bb workouts tend to increase the cytoplasm volume of the muscle cells and pumping the muscles. Swimming, running, calisthenics tend to produce long firm muscles whereas pumping heavy weights tend to produce short and balloned muscles for this simple physiological reason.

3) Muscle growth is optimized by fat gain. So the more we try to build our muscles the more the body tries to increase our body fat. There are many reasons for this. One of this reasons is that kinetic energy is one-half mass times velocity squared. This means that in order to transfer more energy the body must be heavier not just stronger. We have just to think of sumo wrestlers or weights throwers and even olympic powerlifters.

4) This explains why it's possible to optimize body composition by losing a little fat and gaining a little muscle at the same time, but it's impossible to gain lot of muscles and losing lot of fat at the same time. Muscle gain will always trigger and encourage fat gain and fat loss will always trigger and encourage muscle loss.

5) Many bbers over 30 tend to put on quite a few body fat. It is distributed all over and intramuscular so they can still boast about their big physique as being all lean mass while there's a lot of fat distributed evenly and mixed with the muscles. They might be considered "fat builders" and for the very way our body is made it's almost unavoidable to become a "fat builder" once your only goal is to be big and get bigger. Some become fat builders immediately. They eat and eat and boast about their growth which is actually way more fat than muscles. Some become fat builders after a period of metabolic adaption once anabolic saturation kicks in.

6) I said almost because this is where most doping, anabolic substances and other drugs come into action. They prevent the natural fat gain strictly correlated with muscular gain.

7) Most "fat builders" are young or beginners. Usually they can take advantage of a period in which the body is not adapted to the new body composition and the hypertrophic stimulus. Once the metabolism settle down and anabolic saturation occurs it is unavoidable to either accept a rather normal and irrelevant in the bb-world muscular growth or to start to gain fat which is what the body do to support the big mass of the built muscles. Many gain fat but keep claiming they're all muscles.

8) There's a physiological limit for muscle growth which is usually what we call "muscular tone" or being "toned. Overcoming this limit doesn't only mean gaining fat but also reducing the health benefits of a physical activity. It can be seen on blood tests. Once the physiological limit for a proper amount of necessary muscle mass is overcome most health marks tend to worsen. HDL tends to lower, blood pressure tends to raise, red blood cells tend to shrink, cardio frequency tends to increase, glycemia tends to stay higher for longer, the heart develops a concentric hypertrophy so that the walls gets thicker but the heart volume remains the same.

9) Besides the body doesn't tolerate much extra weight on its frame. With the years whatever extra weight on the frame tends to be a major burden. Speed and coordination decrease, posture gets worse, ligaments and joints start to hurt or wear out and the spine gets compressed. Puffing for a simple flight of stair or a walking up the mountains becomes the norm.

10) Speed, coordination and explosiveness create an adaptation for maximum energy efficiency. Optimizing the muscle for energy efficiency means making them smaller. A marathon champion isn't so skinny because excessive cardio burned his muscle but because his body adapted the muscle to the maximum cardio efficiency possible by making the muscles smaller.

11) Big muscles are not needed in nature and are not welcome by the body. Strength most the time is a matter of neurological adaptation and massive strength increase can occurr without muscle growth while muscle growth can occur without strength increase. The hypertrophy obtained through increase in cytoplasmatic volume produces muscles that are larger but neither stronger nor firmer. Big and large muscles decrease explosiveness and speed in legs and arms which are actually things the body wants to optimize.

12) Calipers are not a good indicator of real body fat. Calipers tend to work well with average bodies and localized subcutaneous fat. A big muscular body tends to distribute fat evenly and to hide it intraviscerally and intramuscularly. So most of the time people who believe to be big and lean are not so lean after all and unawaressly got through the process by which further increase in muscular size is accompained by an increase in body fat.

13) This means that illecit substances aside when we see people who are very big (their muscles seems swollen and round like balloons) they are also fat and when we see very high defined people (which create the illusion of bigger muscles) they are also lower in muscular mass than what they claim.

14) Even a bodybuilder magazine with its common hypes had to admit that running generates far more physical efficiency than bodybuilding. Out of 10 tests 8 have been won by runners compared to bodybuilders. This seems to back up everything said so far. Increasing muscle size to make them larger and swollen is often not correlated with strength, requires the body to promote fat gain, decreases physical efficiency and health marks, works against the body tendency to maintain the least weight over the frame in order to protect the structure and decreases energy efficiency which requires muscles to be smaller.

15) A summary:

*Muscles grow easily and fat is burned easily when the body is adapting to new stimulus.
*The problem is believing that such situation will last for long.
*Soon there's an anabolic saturation and macronutrients including proteins start to go toward a fat gain pathway which is what the body naturally do when the muscle mass increases.
*Just looking at strength athletes shows how it's not quite possible to be naturally very muscular and naturally very lean (without anabolic substances).
*Maximum strength and muscular development is always associated with higher body fat and loss of definition.
*The very young and very hardcore few can keep adding mass without fat for a few years but soon reality will call their name.
*Most will accept that in order to gain further muscle mass they have to gain further body fat.
*Most won't realize that they are gaining fat because the distribution will be even. Hypertrofic stimulus allows fat to mix finely with muscles.
*Most will start to put on very visible fat (like a round belly) after their 30's as the burden on the metabolism caused by an arbitrary reckless caloric excess will slow down the metabolism abruptly and if they haven't learned how to balance calories (and most don't learn this since their religion is to gorge and eat as much as possible) they will soon balloon quickly and will get very fat.
*Because of this on their 50's they''ll be slow and pain suffering wardrobes with no definition.
*Some will start to use anabolic substance or others (insulin, dopamine ...) to avoid all of this.
*Most will remain lean enough but smaller in context and will be bloated, fat but bigger for the rest of the year.
http://www.t-nation.com/img/photos/06-154-training/image009.png
*The maximum increase in hypertrofic efficency will greatly reduce cardiovascular efficiency and viceversa. Hence most of the cardiovascular benefits of exercise will be lost
*Excessive muscular growth because of its link with unavoidable fat gain, leads to worsening of health marks or loss of benefits gained during a less extreme phase. HDL cholesterol, glycemia, blood pressure, corpuscolar volume, heart volume, red blood cells size, blood flowing, energy efficiency.
*Excessive weight wether from fat or from muscle is a burden for the body and since tendons and joints don't follow the same pace of rapid muscle growth, they tend to worn out and suffer under the excess weight

16) The conclusion and solution appears logic eventually. Since we have a maximum development of dry mass without fat gain we have to find the maximum muscular development which is compatible with a 9-12% of body fat while maintaining body weight, health and cardiovascular efficiency with a good cardio routine. When mass building becomes excessive cardio efficiency starts to suffer, health marks start to worsen and fat gain starts to creep in. Stopping at the right balance between natural leaness, cardiovascular efficiency and well developed muscular tone is the perfect solution. This will provide the muscular adequate slenderness which is associated with better flexibility, speed, longevity, health and mood ... unlike big size which is not.

I have learned so much and I hope what I have learned will be usefull to others as well. I have gone through all these mistakes and I can know see clearly that I was delusional all the time, neglecting what was clearly fat gain, neglecting negative mood changes, neglecting excessive calories excessive meal times and poor obsession with eating as much food as possible, neglecting loss of speed, coordination and flexibility and neglecting a general building sense of malaise. I still want to be lean and firm rather than flabby and skinny but I have known understand what path to follow and I can see already positive changes from my returning to cardio, to biking and to healthier conceptions of training and body weight maintenance.

very nice post above.

I think some of your science may be controversial. If you seek a lean physique, it's 90% diet, and weight bearing exercise like running. There are not too many fat runners- maybe you should switch to running as your cross training routine.

1) Studies have shown that better health and longevity are correlated with slenderness and thinness. While comparing people with poor muscular tone with people with good muscular tone seems to suggest muscles make us younger and healthier, this doesn't mean that the more muscles we have the healthier and more longeve we are. Slenderness and the right amount of muscles are correlated with better health and longevity. Bulkiness and "bigness" are not.

In other words, low BF% not overall size is more important.


3) Muscle growth is optimized by fat gain. So the more we try to build our muscles the more the body tries to increase our body fat. There are many reasons for this. One of this reasons is that kinetic energy is one-half mass times velocity squared. This means that in order to transfer more energy the body must be heavier not just stronger. We have just to think of sumo wrestlers or weights throwers and even olympic powerlifters.

It doesn't have anything to do with kinetic energy. The body only puts on significant muscle when it thinks it can afford to spare calories and nutrients to build them. This is more efficient during times of excess caloric intake, when fat is being developed to some degree.


4) This explains why it's possible to optimize body composition by losing a little fat and gaining a little muscle at the same time, but it's impossible to gain lot of muscles and losing lot of fat at the same time. Muscle gain will always trigger and encourage fat gain and fat loss will always trigger and encourage muscle loss.

Yes, but thats not to say you cannot achieve any net benefit through cutting/bulking cycles or eating close to maintainance and gradually changing body composition.

5) Many bbers over 30 tend to put on quite a few body fat. It is distributed all over and intramuscular so they can still boast about their big physique as being all lean mass while there's a lot of fat distributed evenly and mixed with the muscles. They might be considered "fat builders" and for the very way our body is made it's almost unavoidable to become a "fat builder" once your only goal is to be big and get bigger. Some become fat builders immediately. They eat and eat and boast about their growth which is actually way more fat than muscles. Some become fat builders after a period of metabolic adaption once anabolic saturation kicks in.

How many non-BB'ers do you see balloon up in their 30s? Its not a BB specific problem when the metabolic rates slow down due to age.

9) Besides the body doesn't tolerate much extra weight on its frame. With the years whatever extra weight on the frame tends to be a major burden. Speed and coordination decrease, posture gets worse, ligaments and joints start to hurt or wear out and the spine gets compressed. Puffing for a simple flight of stair or a walking up the mountains becomes the norm.

Maybe once you get truly huge but most of the guys I see with an extra 20-30 lbs of lean mass have more coordination and explosiveness. Weightlifting doesn't turn you into a lazy bum. Also, joints don't wear out in old age any more in weightlifters than non-weight lifters.

10) Speed, coordination and explosiveness create an adaptation for maximum energy efficiency. Optimizing the muscle for energy efficiency means making them smaller. A marathon champion isn't so skinny because excessive cardio burned his muscle but because his body adapted the muscle to the maximum cardio efficiency possible by making the muscles smaller.

A marathon runner doesn't need terribly strong muscles. I"m not saying running a marathon is easy but in terms of anaerobic capability, a marathon runner doesn't have or need much of it (as opposed to a sprinter). And yes, the excessive cardio seems to cut a good deal of muscle while still holding a higher level of BF% in many runners I've seen.



Interesting and targeted a bit more towards pure BB'ers I guess. I lift for a combination of strength and size myself. Regardless, a few details seem a bit iffy but some good points anyway.