Commuting - Best tail light to pair with Lumotec IQ Fly?

I just installed the IQ Fly and OMG, so that's what it's like having a REAL light! :eek:
Took 5 minutes to plug into the Shimano DH-3N71 hub and I was off for a test ride last night. Works perfectly and lit up the road in front of me very well. It was almost like riding my Vespa! It even emits light to the sides which was kinda cool. But I'm most excited about not having to charge my Vega light all the time or being worried about the light dying on me mid-ride.

It has the ability to run a tail light and I was wondering if I should get one instead of my planet bike blinky, and if so, which one should I get. The only thing I'm not all that crazy about is running the wiring from the front of the bike to the rear(aesthetics). What do you think?

I run the DToplight XS, and like it a lot paired with the IQ Fly. Perfect combination.

Joey French
http://stankertanker.blogspot.com

Yeah, that's the one I was looking at.
What's the clear part in the middle?

I guess this is pretty much my only/best choice?

Thanks!

What's the clear part in the middle?

The clear part in the middle is the LED, which is red. The two red pieces on the sides are reflectors. It is quite bright, but not as bright as the PB SuperFlash. Still, it is pretty great.

Joey French

I prefer a blinkie as a taillight. It will not go out when stopped. 2 AAA Batteries power it for 100+ hours. I use a second amber blinkie on front for the same reason making me visible to oncoming traffic while stopped at intersections. I almost got run over once by a left turning cager cutting across my lane as I was also going to make a left turn myself.

I prefer a blinkie as a taillight...

You should run a steady light along with blinking lights to enhance tracking. The blinking light attracts attention, while the steady light keeps you visible.

The DToplight XS is nice, but make sure you get the Plus version with a standlight. B&M also makes a couple of fender-mount tail lights if you don't have a rack to mount it on.

I don't find that the wiring looks that bad. You can wind the wire in a spiral around your brake cable and it comes out fairly clean.

The only bad thing about a generator tail light are the weird little plugs you need for the end of the wire. They're a pain to deal with, and can't be reused if you have to redo the wiring for whatever reason. It's also hard to find replacements, so I recommend buying a bunch of spares along with your light.

I put a standlight on the back.
Don't see it as an "either/or" thing (generator taillight vs blinkie), and since the option is to run a resistor across the taillight plugs to deal with a 3W supply to a 2.4W light... Figured I might as well run a wired taillight.

So how do you get the wire from the frame of the bike to the rear of the fender if doing a fender mount light???

I like to run a strip of reflective tape down the center of the rear fender, so I just put the wire under that.

In the past I've also run the wire along the inside of the fender -- drilling a small hole in the fender near the brake bridge to feed the wire in, and another right above the tail light for it to come out. Then I glued the wire in place inside the fender.

I had trouble with the wire coming unglued, though.

Supernova makes a 0.6V wired tail light with 3 LEDs, and it's on a rear rack mounting bracket. (Fits racks with 2 hole mounting on the rear) It's pricey, but it's 180-degree visible (according to brochures) and works with the standlight circuit on your headlight so you don't "disappear" when you stop rolling.

The clear part in the middle is the LED, which is red. The two red pieces on the sides are reflectors. It is quite bright, but not as bright as the PB SuperFlash. Still, it is pretty great.

Joey French


Thanks for the comparison. Just a precision however : when you say the DToplight XS is not as bright as the Planet Bike Superflash, is it when you compare the latter in steady mode?

Regards,

I prefer a blinkie as a taillight. It will not go out when stopped. 2 AAA Batteries power it for 100+ hours. I use a second amber blinkie on front for the same reason making me visible to oncoming traffic while stopped at intersections. I almost got run over once by a left turning cager cutting across my lane as I was also going to make a left turn myself.

This is the concern that I have had with this type of setup-is it possible to wire a battery into the system that charges off the genhub so that you have juice for heads and tails when stopped?

This is the concern that I have had with this type of setup-is it possible to wire a battery into the system that charges off the genhub so that you have juice for heads and tails when stopped?

If you use a standlight model headlight (like the IQ Fly), it will also power the tail light when you come to a stop. It cuts your standlight time in half usually, but how often do you spend more than 2 minutes at a stop light?

Since there was discussion of the Busch & Muller DToplight in this thread, I just wanted to let everyone know my co-author at AustinBikeBlog just did a review of the Senso version of the light here: http://austinbikeblog.org/?p=550.

I just installed the IQ Fly and OMG, so that's what it's like having a REAL light! :eek:
Took 5 minutes to plug into the Shimano DH-3N71 hub and I was off for a test ride last night. Works perfectly and lit up the road in front of me very well. It was almost like riding my Vespa! It even emits light to the sides which was kinda cool. But I'm most excited about not having to charge my Vega light all the time or being worried about the light dying on me mid-ride.

How does the light compare to the L&M Vega? Is it much brighter?

How does the light compare to the L&M Vega? Is it much brighter?

Oh yes. Well, the Vega was pretty darn bright. But this thing actually lights up the road well enough to see by, not just be seen. Plus I used to have to charge the Vega every other day and that was using it on blinky mode. The lumotec stays on solid and of course no charging. It produces a great beam of light directly in front, and then it lights up (to a lesser degree and in a funky broken up pattern) a big span 180 degrees. I love it.

to answer the 2 month old question about the possibility of charging a standlight with the dynamo system, i think the standlights are driven with a capacitor (or something) that is indeed charged by the hub. nice. (feel free to point out how wrong i am if you know better, but i think that's what i remember reading.)

funny thing -- i was just about to call peter white cycles and order my wheel, hub and lights. i checked his website last night and see that he's not shipping any wheels from 9/2 to 9/23 since he'll be on vacation. what's the date of the time change this year? :)

I just ordered my IQ Fly with standlight. The bike it is going on has a 2.4v generator hub (EU spec DH-2R30-E (http://cycle.shimano-eu.com/catalog/cycle/products/component.jsp?PRODUCT%3C%3Eprd_id=845524441776490&FOLDER%3C%3Efolder_id=2534374302050084&ASSORTMENT%3C%3East_id=1408474395181667&bmUID=1220489204320)) Not sure if I can run a tail light off of it or not, but I currently have a very nice Spannigia Vector Xb (http://velo-orange.com/spvexbgta.html) battery taillight that is rack mounted and use the PB Superflash mounted up high on the seat post. So far it has proved very effective. Spannigia also makes the Vectra (http://velo-orange.com/spvexs.html) in a generator powered version. The one I have runs for several months on a set of batteries, it also uses the AA which are readily available.

Aaron:)

to answer the 2 month old question about the possibility of charging a standlight with the dynamo system, i think the standlights are driven with a capacitor (or something) that is indeed charged by the hub. nice. (feel free to point out how wrong i am if you know better, but i think that's what i remember reading.)


Yes, the stand light is definitely powered by the hub. It only takes a minute or two of riding to give the stand light enough juice.

Yes, the stand light is definitely powered by the hub. It only takes a minute or two of riding to give the stand light enough juice.

I have the IQ Fly Senso Plus with D Toplight powered by the hub. The standlight for both front and rear seem powered after a matter of seconds. I roll the bike 30 metres to the elevator in my apartment block,and both lights stay on while I'm stationary in the lift. The B&M halogen front light I used to have took a minute or two of riding to charge the standlight, but the LED front light of the IQ Fly seems to remove even that delay.

Ya, cool. I hadn't really paid that much attention, i just know that it pretty much always works.

Sorry I didn't reply earlier, the DToplight XS does not flash, so it is not as eye catching as the PB Superflash. With the SF on stationary mode, the XS is almost as bright as it is.

Don't worry about the standlight, it works flawlessly. I regularly ride home, take a shower, and come out to find the standlight still shining. It will charge fully in very little time and distance (I would say less than a minute).

Your IQ Fly lights - are they securely mounted to the bike once installed, or easily stolen? I asked this over in electrics/lighting but realized I might get a better answer from someone with the actual light I'm hoping to use.

My IQ Fly light is secure based upon the fact that given an hour and the tools I used to install it, I don't think I could remove the bolt thru the fork crown that my front fender *and* IQ Fly mounting bracket are attached to.

EDIT: realizing this may not make sense. I'll try to take a picture tomorrow, also b/c I'm looking for alternate mounting suggestions.

My rear Toplight XS is not so secure, but I don't leave my bike hanging around all that often, and it would require tools. If somebody steals my rear light I'll be surprised, and sad.

To the Toplight non-blinkiness point above, I run a pair of PB superflash in blink mode on either side of the Toplight. I'm hard to miss.

I just installed the Lumotec IQ Cyo Senso Plus headlight on my generator hub equipped bike. Very impressive compared to the original Shimano generator headlight. Also much more compact than the IQ Fly.

Mine is bar mounted as the fork is not drilled for the normal fork bridge mount. It is still reasonably secure as tools would be needed for removal of the mount from the bar or the light from the mount. Next to get the wired tail light for it too.

It has the ability to run a tail light and I was wondering if I should get one instead of my planet bike blinky, and if so, which one should I get. The only thing I'm not all that crazy about is running the wiring from the front of the bike to the rear(aesthetics). What do you think?

The new Toplight Flat is pretty good. The disadvantage of DToplight XS is that the plastic through which the LED shines is convex and sticks out. Sooner or later the area most critical for shining gets scratched. In Toplight Flat the respective portion of the plastic is concave and, thus, effectively shielded from scratching. The light is very bright and is visible from a wide range of angles (advertised as 220 deg).

Your IQ Fly lights - are they securely mounted to the bike once installed, or easily stolen? I asked this over in electrics/lighting but realized I might get a better answer from someone with the actual light I'm hoping to use.

They are bolted on. Mine is thru the hole in the bridge on the fork, that same bolt also holds my fender on. Ditto my Spanniga tail light, it is fastened on thu the rack with two screws. My PB Superflash is on the normal seat post mount, I try to remember to remove that one. But even when I don't I have never lost one...yet.

Aaron:)

I just installed the Lumotec IQ Cyo Senso Plus headlight on my generator hub equipped bike. Very impressive compared to the original Shimano generator headlight. Also much more compact than the IQ Fly.

Mine is bar mounted as the fork is not drilled for the normal fork bridge mount. It is still reasonably secure as tools would be needed for removal of the mount from the bar or the light from the mount. Next to get the wired tail light for it too.

Hey Rich,

So how do you think the Cyo compares with a Supernova E3? I'm up in the air about which to buy. Also where did you get your Cyo?

The B&M site, http://www.bumm.de/index-e.html, has some images of the various lights they make.

I just ordered a Cyo R Plus (R=light focused slightly downward like a low beam, and Plus=the standlight feature), and I hope the images are as true as I think. I'm going to run the B&M 4DToplight Senso Multi wired to it, which is also dynamo powered but that will switch to battery power when stopped or in the event of wire failure.

I currently run just a battery-powered 4D Toplight on my rack with a PB Superflash on my saddlebag, and am very happy with the combination. I've had several people comment favorably on it. One of the security guards at work sees me coming in every day, and lets me know if my taillight batteries are getting low. :D

This new rig will greatly improve my headlight situtation, as well as cutting down on my battery-charging. This deal (along with a Schmidt dyno hub wheel) is some fairly expensive gadgetry, but I ride in the dark every day--so I don't think it's just frivolous (or not too, anyway...).

just curious - where did you order your Cyo R Plus from?

Hey Rich,

So how do you think the Cyo compares with a Supernova E3? I'm up in the air about which to buy. Also where did you get your Cyo?

It depends on usage; for off road use with slow twisty turns, the E3 (both symmetrical and the asymmetrical) is good because it spreads the light to each side. For commuting on the road, the B&M IQ Cyo (both the IQ Cyo N (sport) and the IQ Cyo R (near field)) are superior while being much cheaper. The German bicycle magazine "Aktiv Radfahrer" tested a lot dynamo front lights in their 11-12/2008 edition.

http://www.radfahren.de/modules.php?name=News&file=article&sid=4869&imgid=7686&subtopic=120&photonr=11
As it can be seen on the graph, the E3 (asymmetrical) only measured 41 lux at 30 km/h while the IQ Cyo N measured 72 lux

Here are some beam shoots taken from above. The Cyo's are no. 2 and 3 from the left, while the E3 (asym.) is the utmost right one.
http://www.radfahren.de/modules.php?name=News&file=article&sid=4869&imgid=7677&subtopic=120&photonr=11
The magazine described the E3 (asym.) beam as "chaotic" and too short and narrow in the front for fast road usage.

To me it looks like that the B&M IQ Cyo's are the best generator driven road commuting light at the moment, they put a huge amount of light on the road where it is needed, and doesn't easily blind oncoming traffic. The SON Edelux may be even better (and more expensive), but with a several month long waiting list to get one, it is hard to recommend.


--
Regards

just curious - where did you order your Cyo R Plus from?

From Peter White. I'm getting the SON hub wheel built, as well.

I scored a B&M Selectra (http://bumm.de/index-e.html?docu/320e.htm) from a shop while visiting Germany this past Christmas. You can see that it's got a couple small side LEDs to help with visibility.

For now, I've got an LED Oval on my dynohub bike. I'll probably get a Cyo once I get another dynohub.

Hey Rich,

So how do you think the Cyo compares with a Supernova E3? I'm up in the air about which to buy. Also where did you get your Cyo?

I got it from Peter White Cycles along with their new handlebar mount for 31.8mm bars. The bike has disc brakes and a CF fork without provisions for a fork bridge mounting so I needed a handlebar mount. I have never even seen the E3 so cannot do a comparison.

Bikes with generator lights are scarce in Reno. At a recent fund raiser for the Tour De Nez race organization there were close to 100 bikes and my Civia was the only one I noted with a generator hub and one of only two or three with a gear hub. It was admired by a lot of people, several of whom indicated that they were working on IGH projects.

Bikes with generator lights are scarce...

yeah, that's kind of what i love about these - while everyone else is throwing down hundreds of dollars for dinotte or light & motion setups, i'll soon have a longer-lasting, reliable setup for around $200 that is just as bright!

btw, aebike.com is selling dynamo hub front wheels (http://aebike.com/page.cfm?PageID=30&action=list&Category=617&brand=326&modelid=7563&type=T) (700c) for 129.99, with free shipping. seems like a deal - mine's on the way!

I got it from Peter White Cycles along with their new handlebar mount for 31.8mm bars. The bike has disc brakes and a CF fork without provisions for a fork bridge mounting so I needed a handlebar mount. I have never even seen the E3 so cannot do a comparison.

Bikes with generator lights are scarce in Reno. At a recent fund raiser for the Tour De Nez race organization there were close to 100 bikes and my Civia was the only one I noted with a generator hub and one of only two or three with a gear hub. It was admired by a lot of people, several of whom indicated that they were working on IGH projects.

For a daily rider an IGH and a dynohub are almost a requirement. The more I ride with the newest generation of generator hubs and LED headlights I am constantly amazed. I had generators back in the 70's and they were okay, then we had the Wonder lights and thought it couldn't get much better. I am glad to get away from the batteries and not having to worry about them.

Aaron:)

So how do you get the wire from the frame of the bike to the rear of the fender if doing a fender mount light???


I like to run a strip of reflective tape down the center of the rear fender, so I just put the wire under that. In the past I've also run the wire along the inside of the fender -- drilling a small hole in the fender near the brake bridge to feed the wire in, and another right above the tail light for it to come out. Then I glued the wire in place inside the fender. I had trouble with the wire coming unglued, though.
I got a Koga Miyata Globe Traveler touring bike from eBay last summer. It comes fully equipped, and then some! http://www.koga.com/uk/bike.asp?collectionid=7&segmentid=54&id=641718&FullSpecs=1
The fork has braze-ons for running the wires from the hub up to the front light, then the wires are internally routed through the down tube and exit behind the bottom bracket. There they attach to the rear fender which has a special Koga branded SKS fender with dual copper strips molded in. The taillight wiring attaches to the fender just below the rear mount. Very clean! Unfortunately, the rear fender was damaged when shipped to me. I was unable to source a replacement fender with the molded in copper without a prohibitively expensive special order from Europe (it's a Dutch bike). My solution was to run a strip of adhesive backed flat speaker wire inside a standard SKS fender and drill holes to attach the wiring front and back. Not quite as neat as the Koga fender, but it works as well and the adhesive has held thus far.


yeah, that's kind of what i love about these - while everyone else is throwing down hundreds of dollars for dinotte or light & motion setups, i'll soon have a longer-lasting, reliable setup for around $200 that is just as bright!
While dynamo powered lights have come a long way and certainly provide more than adequate lighting for road riding, they are not the equal in output, nor will they ever likely be, of top rung battery powered lights. Even my $50 quad led flashlight will put out way more light than the brightest dynamo set-up. http://www.dealextreme.com/details.dx/sku.10452 It just wont do it all night, day after day. Speaking of top rung, if you've got an extra 1000 euros or so burning a hole in your pocket, you can stimulate the German economy by buying this: http://www.lupine.de/web/en/products/lightsets/betty/14/

Ya, that's why I decided not long after originally starting this thread that I'll just stick with my planet bike super flash. It's only 20 bucks and it's brighter than probably anything else out there other than dinotte.

While dynamo powered lights have come a long way and certainly provide more than adequate lighting for road riding, they are not the equal in output, nor will they ever likely be, of top rung battery powered lights. Even my $50 quad led flashlight will put out way more light than the brightest dynamo set-up.

I would have to disagree with that. People have already homebrewed some 1000 lumen dynamo headlights. I would have to say that 1000 lumen market produced dynamo headlights will be for sale within the next 5 years. The jumps in efficiency by LEDs in the past couple of years have been amazing and if they continue this way then it should be very easy to get 1000 lumen headlights. We already have 500 lumen headlights like the E3 Triple that you can buy.

I use a $6 blinkie in addition to my wired taillight. This is an interesting option for a wired taillight.
http://www.peterwhitecycles.com/schmidt-headlights.asp#diwaplus

I would have to disagree with that. People have already homebrewed some 1000 lumen dynamo headlights. I would have to say that 1000 lumen market produced dynamo headlights will be for sale within the next 5 years. The jumps in efficiency by LEDs in the past couple of years have been amazing and if they continue this way then it should be very easy to get 1000 lumen headlights. We already have 500 lumen headlights like the E3 Triple that you can buy.

I would say the output of the dynamo is the limiting factor, no? The same LEDs are available for both dynamo and battery powered lights. I believe the typical hub dynamo puts out about 3W at 6V. The Lupine Betty puts out up to 23W at 7.1V. Unless there are great advances in dynamo output and efficiency, I don't see how they can ever match a large battery pack, but I'm no electrical engineer. Do you have a link to these high lumen dynamo lights? Perhaps I can further my education.

I will find a link later on unless someone else provides it before I do. I have to go to work and don't have time to search.

Yes, the dynamo doesn't put out as much power as one of those battery packs. However, it doesn't necessarily need to since the LEDs are becoming so efficient that they can get into the really big numbers of output. Once they have reached 330 lumens/watt in efficiency then we will have a 1000 lumen dynamo light. Right now it is about half of that so we have a little ways to go. Of course by then the battery packs will be putting out 10,000 lumens or so. But, I really don't think that 10,000 lumens is needed for riding on the road. 1,000 would be plenty for me.

http://pilom.com/BicycleElectronics/DynamoCircuits.htm

At 10.5 watts, any of the newer LEDs will put out probably around 1200 lumens. You also don't get any light at 8 km/h or slower. As they become more efficient one doesn't have to use such high voltage to power your lights. 1200 lumens is possible, it just isn't necessarily applicable for everyone.

Do you have a link to these high lumen dynamo lights? Perhaps I can further my education.

Theres a few in my sig, currently 800lm on my roadie.

They top out around 12W which is really more than enough for anything. 500lm from three LEDs is probably the sweet spot in terms of output, input, and low speed lighting.