"The 33"-Road Bike Racing - Group/Hammer Ride - Team Tactics? Huh?

Here's a question for the experienced group riders. I'm not one of those apparently. The group rides I'm used to were all our own club, so it was always every man for himself.

I've started to mix up the workouts to include a group ride once a week on Thursday nights (this week was Tuesday night due to scheduling conflict on Thursday) to get some practice in the responding to jumps/accelerations and attacking. This is the second night I've heard this, and it's really bizarre to me.

Seems to me that these weekly group rides would be a chance to throw team tactics out the window and attack everything, and work with anyone. About three weeks ago, 4 of us got "off the front" of the dozen or so chasers. We were riding pretty hard until two of them attacked hard and the other two of us just couldn't respond. Once I got my breath, I started to work pretty hard to make up the gap, but it was apparent the other guy wasn't going to do any work (or couldn't - still not sure). But, at the end of the ride, he told the other two guys that he knew "Good ride guys, I was blocking for you."

Then tonight, the same guy jumped off the front with me - we had a hundred meters or so and likewise - no work. When the group of 11-12 folks caught us, one of his teammates told him, "Nice blocking man!"

I don't get it. Maybe I'm missing the point of the group ride. Just weird to me. Not so much a complaint, really. I'm getting the workout I want out of the sessions. The rides are as hard as you make them with plenty of attacking and responding, but I'm just not familiar with team tactics being played out during the weekly hammerfests.

I'm with you. If it's a weekly hammerfest then I would attack repeatedly. I guess there's a point to practicing team tactics, but I personally would be wearing myself out.

Blocking is for wussy. Our local worlds ride has gotten stupid with blocking. Guys literally go to the front with a couple teammies off the front, ride shoulder to shoulder and soft pedal. It's pathetic.

If you're going to 'block' it's not to be taken literally. It's not football. Physically obstructing a chase is cowardice.

Yeah, to me that's weird. There's not actually anything at stake at a group ride. Maybe bragging rights, though at the local hammerfest rides, even that's not really something that we do. If you win a town line sprint, big deal. Congrats for a good effort is given all round. If you're first to the re-grouping point, again, big deal. Someone might say, "Hey, you're strong," allowing you to feel prideful for 20 minutes until you get dropped on the next town line Blocking actually seems counterproductive to a good, hard group ride, where I think that a big part of the fun is the mano-a-mano riding style. But there are different styles all over.

I agree with what everyone has said. Lame-O. A group hammer/training ride should be every man for himself.

Is it so important to practice your blocking skills, I don't get it either. Does this ride consist of members from 3-4 different clubs?

**** that ****. Ride your ass off.

Does that dude practice giving his water bottles to his teammates, too?

I think practicing "active" team tactics would be good on a group ride, things like chasing, leading out, etc. Blocking doesn't seem so effective since sitting on a wheel doesn't require actual rehearsal for anyone that knows how to draft. If blocking I'd at least turn it off after 30 or 60 seconds and revert to practicing chasing.

cdr

Is it so important to practice your blocking skills, I don't get it either. Does this ride consist of members from 3-4 different clubs?

Yeah, it's a handful of clubs that show up at all levels of ability. It's only one club that seems to be doing this "blocking" thing or commenting on it. But maybe I'm just misinterpreting a guy who sucks wheel in the chase/break and/or pulls through and off right away.

Really, all in all it's a good ride. I would recommend it to folks. Decent enough course for a pretty residential area with only a couple of choke points on the flow of the ride. The talent level is perfect for where I need to be right now. The lead group is strong enough to keep anything really from staying away, but it's worth trying.

I did ~12 minutes off the front on the first jump, avg 351, pnorm 384 - still got dragged in like I was riding tempo. I take solace every week that I go out and do 2 hrs of endurance riding before I get to the group ride, so my legs must be more tired than all theirs!

A group hammer/training ride should be every man for himself.

I presume that means the Deli Stop is out of the question.

I presume that means the Deli Stop is out of the question.

Summer rides, off the
front with time to spare, or dropped
hopelessly, feel free.

BTW - it's a 40km group ride.

Seems to me that these weekly group rides would be a chance to throw team tactics out the window and attack everything, and work with anyone. About three weeks ago, 4 of us got "off the front" of the dozen or so chasers. We were riding pretty hard until two of them attacked hard and the other two of us just couldn't respond. Once I got my breath, I started to work pretty hard to make up the gap, but it was apparent the other guy wasn't going to do any work (or couldn't - still not sure). But, at the end of the ride, he told the other two guys that he knew "Good ride guys, I was blocking for you."

Then tonight, the same guy jumped off the front with me - we had a hundred meters or so and likewise - no work. When the group of 11-12 folks caught us, one of his teammates told him, "Nice blocking man!"





These queens need to understand what the word "blocking" means, apparently. The first situation was wheel sucking and the second was covering. One can't block when you're behind the guy you're trying to block.

This sounds great for me. Next time I'm at the front but my pull was kind of weak, I'll just say I was blocking. Or if I'm ever off the front on some strong guys wheel and not able to do any work , I'll just say I'm blocking. Sounds like the perfect excuse.

I think practicing "active" team tactics would be good on a group ride, things like chasing, leading out, etc. Blocking doesn't seem so effective since sitting on a wheel doesn't require actual rehearsal for anyone that knows how to draft. If blocking I'd at least turn it off after 30 or 60 seconds and revert to practicing chasing.

cdr

ditto.

At our 'nighter, we get a lot of teams shutting down because they have a teammate off the front in a break. No blocking though. One recent night, we had two guys in a break up the road, and the pack forced another teammate in the front, so we just pulled at 23mph or so really smooth to keep things moving. Eventually some other teams sent riders to the front to organize some intensity, and we just went back into the fold (no blocking).

I wanted my guys to stay away so I could practice bridging later.

I agree though, there's no reason to get in and disrupt a chase or anything. Even "covering," I would still do my share just to see if we could make the bridge work.

Of course, this is a training race, not a "group ride."

I tentatively disagree with most here (tentative b/c every group ride has its own ethos, and I don't know this one.) If this is a "race simulation" ride -- the kind that has a defined "finish line" and the whole 9 yards -- then yeah, any and all team tactics aren't just OK, they're what you SHOULD be doing. Team tactics aren't obvious and take practice. That's what rides like this are for. And if you think they are obvious ... maybe that's why they're so often done poorly?

For me, I've always been the solo guy in rides like this. I WANT the teams to work tactics, so I can figure out how to read and handle them. If they don't do it in the practice "races," then I'm SOL when they do it in the real races.

I've been the "victim" of this before, too. At first, I wasn't happy about it, because I thought it was pretty "unsporting" on their part; I didn't think it was fair to drop the 8 on 1 action on me unannounced.

Then, I realized that if (big "if" here) I can cover the moves and spit some of them out the back in the process, I'll be in good shape, both in terms of the situation on the road, and physical improvement. And, further down the line, if I can survive the 4-on-1 action, I can hit them super hard up the power climbs towards the end of the ride. Simply, I had to be attentive and smart, and let others do work (nobody wants to get blown away by two or three teammates, so they'll still work a bit here and there) when possible and blow ***** up when I can.

Synopsis:
1) Draft when possible
2) Jump super hard to cover when possible...most efficient and might shed hangers-on
3) Open gaps then close them hard and fast on climbs to get rid of more hangers-on
4) Ride to your strengths

I wanted my guys to stay away so I could practice bridging later.

+1. I won't block, but I often won't chase, either. If we catch I always counterattack.

My definition of success during a training ride is to get in a good workout. Getting dropped is OK; I can chase back on.

Obviously success in a race is winning, or helping win, etc.

**** that ****. Ride your ass off.

Right-O.

Our tuesday nite hammerfest is made up of people from several teams, it's everyman for himself. We will chase down and attack teammates. Our Thursday training crit is where team tactics are practiced.

it's kinda weird but I would enjoy it nevertheless

I think practicing "active" team tactics would be good on a group ride, things like chasing, leading out, etc. Blocking doesn't seem so effective since sitting on a wheel doesn't require actual rehearsal for anyone that knows how to draft. If blocking I'd at least turn it off after 30 or 60 seconds and revert to practicing chasing.

cdr

+1

Next time they say, "nice blocking," you should say, "yeah, nice wheelsucking." :p

My Sunday group ride is usually 6 to 8 riders where we have designated sprints along the route. I have been trying to instigate splitting into two "teams" for the ride with limited success. Everybody wants to be the sprinter, so it usually falls apart.

what club is this nomad?

They are trying to win a race, only problem, nobody else is racing......

Work on Tuesday (Thursday, whatever....) Whoop there butts on Saturday and Sunday.