Electric Bikes - Are gas powered bikes welcome here too?

at $149.00 it worth trying :) im ordering one come payday.

http://www.tsunamibike.com/catalog/item/6282031/6092880.htm

You need to change the quote under your name. "gas free :)" is not gonna work for you anymore.

at $149.00 it worth trying :) im ordering one come payday.

http://www.tsunamibike.com/catalog/item/6282031/6092880.htm

You're in Ontario, Canada. Those things aren't street legal here.

Take a look at Ontario laws:


Motor-Assisted Bicycles (Mopeds)

Like limited-speed motorcycles, mopeds can be operated on roads in Ontario.

You are no longer permitted to drive a moped on any driver's licence. New moped drivers are required to take road tests.

A restricted class M licence for limited-speed motorcycle (LSM) and moped drivers was introduced on November 28, 2005. This restricted class M licence has a condition that allows licence holders to drive limited-speed motorcycles and mopeds only.

A motor-assisted bicycle is a bicycle that:

* is fitted with pedals that are operable at all times to propel the bicycle;
* weighs not more than 55 kilograms;
* has no hand or foot operated clutch or gearbox driven by the motor and transferring power to the driven wheel;
* has a piston displacement of not more that 50 cubic centimetres; and,
* does not attain a speed greater than 50 km/h on level ground within a distance of 2 km from a standing start.

Illustration of a motor-assisted bicycleTo operate these vehicles on the roadway:

* driver must hold a restricted class M licence for limited-speed motorcycles/mopeds (Class M2 with L restriction or M with L restriction or a valid motorcycle licence (Class M1, M2 or M);
* approved motorcycle helmet is required;
* vehicle must be insured and registered and have a valid licence plate;
* no passengers allowed;
* they must meet federal safety standards for a limited speed motorcycle;
* motor-assisted bicycles are not allowed to travel on 400 series highways.

See also:

* Licensing Changes for Operators of Motor Scooters and Mopeds
* Frequently Asked Questions: Licensing Changes


And this is what this forum is talking about (electric bikes):


Power-Assisted/Electric Bicycles

Can be operated on roads in Ontario

Illustration of an electric bicycleEffective October 3, 2006, the Province of Ontario began a three-year pilot project to evaluate the use of power-assisted bicycles (also known as electric bikes or e-bikes) on roads and highways where conventional bicycles are currently allowed. The pilot is open to all Ontarians 16 years of age and older and will run for three years. For the duration of the pilot, electric bicycles will be treated as bicycles and must follow the same rules of the road as set out in the Highway Traffic Act that currently apply to cyclists.

There are two exceptions:

* Operators must be 16 years of age or older, and
* All operators must wear an approved bicycle helmet at all times.

Sample label THIS VEHICLE IS A POWER
ASSISTED BICYCLE AND
MEETS ALL THE
REQUIREMENTS UNDER
SECTION 2(1) OF THE
CANADA MOTOR VEHICLE
SAFETY REGULATIONS.


CE VÉHICULE EST UNE BICYCLETTE
ASSISTÉE ET RECONTRE LA NORME 2(1)
DU RÈGLEMENT SUR LA SÉCURITÉ
DES VÉHICULES AUTOMOBILES DU CANADA.

During the pilot:

* No driver's licence is required,
* No written test is required,
* No vehicle registration or plate required,
* No requirement for motor vehicle liability insurance.

An e-bike is a bike that:

* has steering handlebars and is equipped with pedals;
* is designed to be propelled primarily by muscular power and to travel on not more than three wheels;
* has one or more electric motors that have, singly or in combination, a power output rating of 500W or less. (Note: the motor is electric, and is incapable of propelling the cycle at speed of 32 km/h or greater on level ground, without pedaling.) and
* bears a permanently affixed label by the manufacturer stating in both official languages that the vehicle conforms to the federal definition of a power-assisted bicycle.

The power-assisted bicycle pilot is authorized by Ontario Regulation 473/06. In this regulation, the legal definition of an e-bike refers to the federal definition of a power-assisted bicycle. For the full definition, please see subsection 2(1) of the Motor Vehicle Safety Regulations under the Motor Vehicle Safety Act.

NOTE: A commitment has been made to evaluate the pilot prior to its three-year expiry. The intent of the ministry’s pilot was to allow e-bikes that look and operate like conventional bikes in order to promote a safe, healthy and environmentally friendly alternative to current transportation modes.


The ministry has become aware of scooter-style vehicles that technically meet the pilot’s e-bike definition, but not the intent, as they are not primarily operated by muscular power due to their heavy weight. Therefore, in addition to evaluating how safely the e-bike can integrate with other motor vehicles, bicycles and pedestrians, the emergence of the scooter-style e-bikes requires the ministry to also assess if the pilot’s original intent continues to be appropriate. The ministry may clarify its position on the original intent of the pilot when final legislation is drafted.

See also:

* Frequently Asked Questions: Power-Assisted Bicycle ("e-bike") Pilot Test



See the difference?

Well, I guess along the same lines of argument... American food... produced using coal and oil. Dirty as well.

You do realize that of the three -- gas power, electric power, human power -- electric in general is the cleanest form of power for bicycles?

1. 50% of my food is home grown.
2. I must eat to live, so I'm using it anyway, big difference

The gas engine for $149 in the above link looks just like my friends'. If that helps with any ideas on where to get a chain. Except I'm pretty sure it is a 49cc.

1. 50% of my food is home grown.
2. I must eat to live, so I'm using it anyway, big difference


You know those extra calories needed to ride a bike doesn't just come out of nowhere. You don't realize it, but you are eating and drinking more as a result of biking in the long run.

lets not turn this thread info an all you can eat buffet.

Well, I guess along the same lines of argument... American food... produced using coal and oil. Dirty as well.

You do realize that of the three -- gas power, electric power, human power -- electric in general is the cleanest form of power for bicycles?

I would argue that human power is actually cleaner. Due to the fact that the rider still has to eat if they are using an electric bike. Also, we have to consider the pollution from the creation and disposal of the batteries.

I would argue that human power is actually cleaner. Due to the fact that the rider still has to eat if they are using an electric bike. Also, we have to consider the pollution from the creation and disposal of the batteries.

I thought this was about Gas powered bikes and how some of us just don't want the ELECTRIC BIKE forum mixed up with gas powered ones.

Zeuser, if you remember there were a ton of people who did not want electric bikes on BF at all.
Ebikes and gas bikes do have a lot of common issues, bicycle component wear is just one.
Learn to share.

A couple of things:

FACT IS: GAS POWERED BIKES ARE ILLEGAL IN ONTARIO!
There's no point in me, or anyone else in our province, even discussing about gas powered bikes since they're irrelevant.

Until the internet is called the OWW (Ontario Wide Web) you might want to consider broadening your horizons. There are a lot more fish in this world than just what's in your pond.

I'd rather they stay in their cars unless they're getting a fuel injected motorcycle. The emissions are just that bad. Charging your electric trike probably causes fewer emissions than the food I eat to pedal my bikes. Most gas kits I've seen though have worse emissions than 5 hummers. Many two strokes even send a third of the fuel unburnt out the tailpipe. It doesn't matter if they get 200mpg when they're spewing out unburnt fuel all over the place. Electric bikes: sometimes even greener than pedaling, Gas bikes: dirtier than any car made today. So why allow them in this forum?

http://www.latimes.com/classified/automotive/highway1/la-hy-throttle11-2008jun11,0,3268856.story

I can certainly appreciate the sentiment that you are going for, however if you are basing your arguement on this article then I am afraid you are both missing the point. If motorcycles account for 1% of miles travelled, what percent of actual vehicle miles travelled account for cycles between 23 and 48cc?
I would be willing to bet that those cycles on the road account for 1% of 1%, and that is being liberal. 25% I would say are between 49 and 499 cc while a vast majority of the bikes are going to be between 599cc and 1900cc. Let's assume that a Honda VTX (s1300cc does create 10 times more emissions, wouldn't you be inclined to believe that an engine displacing 1/10th of that would displace 1/10th of the exhaust, and ultimately 1/10th of the pollutants? Therefore, by this calculation a 130cc cycle would displace the same amount of pollutants as the average car on the road. So a 35cc Robin/Subaru 4 stroke should spew 26% of the fumes that the average auto does. It's not perfect, but it is a start.


The forum is called Electric Bikes. No internal combustion engines allowed.


I'm sorry, it's them or me.

There was a time when this same sentiment was applied to people based on the color of their skin. Now I am not saying this is as grave a situation, but come on. Grow up.

There was a time when this same sentiment was applied to people based on the color of their skin. Now I am not saying this is as grave a situation, but come on. Grow up.

Okay, I gave this thread 3 pages before I voted. That's as open minded as I can be. After reading the pros and cons of gas powered engines having their own forum or sub-forum I am voting "NO".

This last quote (see above) put me over the top. Oh, those poor persecuted gasoline engine users.:rolleyes:

Once a gas powered engine is put on a bike the pedals are merely an adornment basically there for the legal designation as an "assisted bicycle" rather than a motorcycle.

You know those extra calories needed to ride a bike doesn't just come out of nowhere. You don't realize it, but you are eating and drinking more as a result of biking in the long run.

It is a possibility for some people, but when I began biking again, I was overweight and over-eating. Now I am in good shape and eat significantly less then before.

Once a gas powered engine is put on a bike the pedals are merely an adornment basically there for the legal designation as an "assisted bicycle" rather than a motorcycle.

My friends bike has a 49cc 2 stroke motor. It adds power, not a whole lot though. It will go 25 mph when pedaling hard. It will not climb the large hill (250 ft 1/2 mile) on gas power alone. Maybe other types of gas motors have more power? Maybe this one is not running right? Maybe it is not installed right? I have thought the the gearing looks a little strange on it. Maybe that is why it is having chain problems?
Do most gas motor bikes have alot of power?

Do most gas motor bikes have alot of power?

No they don't, which is why the pedals are needed to help out on the hills & etc. In the old heroic days of motor bicycling they call this 'light pedal assistance.'

Because of my diverse interests in historical transport I've got several elderly two stroke engines in my collection, some are from the 1920s. If you want to complain about pollution, wow, wait until I fire one of those up :eek:
At present I'm working on a prewar Phillips gent's heavweight roadster bicycle fitted with a 1920s Villiers engine. Belt drive, no clutch, rod brakes, acetylene headlamp etc etc. Most probably won't ride it much save for the yearly Vintage Car Club's 'Blue Smoke Rally', but I can tell you that a Chinese two stroke is crystal clean compared with a vintage two stroke running on a 16:1 petroil mix.

No they don't, which is why the pedals are needed to help out on the hills & etc. In the old heroic days of motor bicycling they call this 'light pedal assistance.'

Because of my diverse interests in historical transport I've got several elderly two stroke engines in my collection, some are from the 1920s. If you want to complain about pollution, wow, wait until I fire one of those up :eek:
At present I'm working on a prewar Phillips gent's heavweight roadster bicycle fitted with a 1920s Villiers engine. Belt drive, no clutch, rod brakes, acetylene headlamp etc etc. Most probably won't ride it much save for the yearly Vintage Car Club's 'Blue Smoke Rally', but I can tell you that a Chinese two stroke is crystal clean compared with a vintage two stroke running on a 16:1 petroil mix.

I have just build this replica 1910 Wilkinson motorcycle.
No, it does not have 4 cylinder engine. What you see is a mock up.
It is power assisted with Honda GX31 (30cc) 4 stroke (clean) little engine.
It gives me that extra assistance up hills and is fun to ride.
I am for many alternative power assists!!!!!!!!!!!!
I suggest we have another thread heading "Alternative power assists"

You're in Ontario, Canada. Those things aren't street legal here.

Take a look at Ontario laws:



And this is what this forum is talking about (electric bikes):




See the difference?






doesn't say anything about hiding it using it as a generater to charge battery:p in Emergency
its still a 500watt e-bike. rear wheel power is electric. ahh hybrid

nice bike comfybob :)

I have just build this replica 1910 Wilkinson motorcycle.
No, it does not have 4 cylinder engine. What you see is a mock up.
It is power assisted with Honda GX31 (30cc) 4 stroke (clean) little engine.
It gives me that extra assistance up hills and is fun to ride.
I am for many alternative power assists!!!!!!!!!!!!
I suggest we have another thread heading "Alternative power assists"

Wow! - that is a seriously nice Wilkinson replica :thumb: I can see why you're so proud of it.

Your "Alternative power assists" thread heading suggestion sounds very sensible to me. What does everyone else think?

My friends bike has a 49cc 2 stroke motor. It adds power, not a whole lot though. It will go 25 mph when pedaling hard. It will not climb the large hill (250 ft 1/2 mile) on gas power alone. Maybe other types of gas motors have more power? Maybe this one is not running right? Maybe it is not installed right? I have thought the the gearing looks a little strange on it. Maybe that is why it is having chain problems?
Do most gas motor bikes have alot of power?

In the 1970's I was a moped mechanic. I worked on VeloSolex bikes (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Solex), which were then bought by Motobecane and we then began to get a frame mounted, much heavier bike that they were manufacturing in the hopes that there would be a "moped revival due to the gas crisis".

The speeds you describe are pretty accurate to the engine size- though you shouldn't need to "pedal hard" to get it to go 25 mph on level ground. Depending upon the weight of the rider and how well tuned the engine is and what kind of jet is in the carburetor and if the jet is clean etc. it should manage 20-25 mph with little or no assistance. A 250' climb in 1/2 mile is about a 8-10% grade and would definitely need some pedal assistance to make it to the top without stressing out the engine. What kind of chain problems is your friend having? And if it's an add on the gearing could be wrong.

We used to pride ourselves on tuning them so finely that they ran very fast and very efficiently but the timing in these little engines get easily thrown out of whack, they burn dirty and carbon builds up quickly on the piston and if the oil/gas mix is off it can run real dirty and sluggish and the carburetors can get clogged. Basically they are not real precise engines and require constant attention to run really well and efficiently. That's why people don't like them. Unless you're a mechanic they always are running at about 75% of capacity and slowly losing that all the time. I used to break the engines down to nothing and rebuild them every season on our rental fleet- 3 months of daily use and they really start to run like crap.

It's why they have a reputation for burning dirty, loud and slow because most of the one's running for any length of time are running so poorly. Tuned up and new they actually aren't bad but it's not long before they'll need a new spark plug, to be de-carbonized, new jet, new float and tuned, tuned, tuned.

Ok, sounds good, - so go ahead and talk about them :thumb:
No need to go symbolically burning any membership cards or anything.


:)

Personally, I'd like the forum, Electric Bikes, moved into a sub-forum of one entitled, Assisted Bikes, or something similar. Then each form of assist can be discussed in their respective sub-forum as the need arises. That format is just more rational IMO. I absolutely do agree that the purists need to manage their own life and leave others alone even if there might be some secondary effects from pollution perceived as atmospheric, noise, etc. by other humans.

:)

Personally, I'd like the forum, Electric Bikes, moved into a sub-forum of one entitled, Assisted Bikes, or something similar. Then each form of assist can be discussed in their respective sub-forum as the need arises. That format is just more rational IMO. I absolutely do agree that the purists need to manage their own life and leave others alone even if there might be some secondary effects from pollution perceived as atmospheric, noise, etc. by other humans.

Although I don't want to see gas power bicycle threads for reasons already stated, I would like to see other fuel types (steam, air, hydrogen, etc) discussed. When i think about it, gas powered bicycles will never get popular and we'll likely won't see much discussion about them here as electric bicycles get more popular. So I don't mind if we change the forum to "Assisted Bicycles" as long as the bicycles were talking about still feels like a bicycle -- you can still pedal as a primary source of power (not like moped pedals that are there for looks or for emergencies). So if your 2 stroke engine is so large that gets in the way of pedaling, it sounds like it's a moped instead of an assisted bicycle.

You're in Ontario, Canada. Those things aren't street legal here.

Take a look at Ontario laws:

Zeuser, most of us don't care about the current state of Ontario law. Quit going on about it already. What is it with you Ontarians - some making such a big deal about how scooter e-bikes are "good" because Ontario says they're street-legal bikes and how gas bikes are "bad" because Ontario says they aren't street-legal. This is not a forum about Ontario law and it doesn't claim to be a forum that's only about street-legal bikes either. (for what it's worth, the state I live in, Pennsylvania, doesn't distinguish between e-bikes and gas bikes. As far as I know people mostly don't comply with the law, but both are required to comply with "mo-ped" registration & license plate, etc.) Should I come in here shouting about what's street-legal in Pennsylvania and how y'all should base all of your decisions on our laws?

Although I don't want to see gas power bicycle threads for reasons already stated, I would like to see other fuel types (steam, air, hydrogen, etc) discussed. When i think about it, gas powered bicycles will never get popular and we'll likely won't see much discussion about them here as electric bicycles get more popular. So I don't mind if we change the forum to "Assisted Bicycles" as long as the bicycles were talking about still feels like a bicycle -- you can still pedal as a primary source of power (not like moped pedals that are there for looks or for emergencies). So if your 2 stroke engine is so large that gets in the way of pedaling, it sounds like it's a moped instead of an assisted bicycle.


I can see a forum titled "Assisted Bicycles". I just happen to think the 2 stroke gas powered assist engines are junk and anything larger is classified as a motorcycle.

BUT

I absolutely do agree that the purists need to manage their own life and leave others alone even if there might be some secondary effects from pollution perceived as atmospheric, noise, etc. by other humans.

If my life is affected by the excessive noise, smell, unhealthy emissions and I see these bikes on bike paths or in bike lanes I will definitely exercise my right to free speech and express an opinion about it. I don't know if tpreitzel currently owns one of these things but get ready for the backlash- they aren't terribly popular for good reason. Go electric, pedal your bike unassisted or buy a real motorcycle IMO- you do us all a favor by doing so.

Wow! - that is a seriously nice Wilkinson replica :thumb: I can see why you're so proud of it.

Your "Alternative power assists" thread heading suggestion sounds very sensible to me. What does everyone else think?

I said to do the same thing a few posts back :notamused:

Your "Alternative power assists" thread heading suggestion sounds very sensible to me. What does everyone else think?

Aye

There are zillion of moped pages on the intarweb, already.
Where will category stretching end ?

This guy wants a category too........

http://www.norcalblogs.com/commission/images/flying_bike.jpg

:rolleyes:

BIKE forums. Emphasis 'BIKE'

There are zillion of moped pages on the intarweb, already.
Where will category stretching end ?

This guy wants a category too........

attempt at wit

:rolleyes:

BIKE forums. Emphasis 'BIKE'

How about this, if it can be serviced in a LBS, then it deserves a place here.

"How about this, if it can be serviced in a LBS, then it deserves a place here."

I feel for Joe watching his great work be undone by stuff like this.

How about this.....if it is a bike, it deserves a place here.
Not mopeds, segways, scooters, motorcycles or e-peds.
Bicycles. Just the bikes, please.

There are too many categories already. If you look at 'viewing' most of these new splinter
categories you will see 4, 8, 10. You could add any category and a few people will
check it out, but is it worth watering down the forum with it, overall ? No.

I said to do the same thing a few posts back :notamused:

Then I must apologise for overlooking your excellent suggestion :)

I think that using LBS serviceability as a filter for what may or may not be discussed has merit, but I'm not entirely sure how many bike shops would put up their hand when it comes to e.bike servicing never mind the possibility of a shop servicing a gas powered bike.
:speedy:

How about this.....if it is a bike, it deserves a place here.
Not mopeds, segways, scooters, motorcycles or e-peds.
Bicycles. Just the bikes, please.



In my opinion, if it's possible to remove the powerplant and still have a rideable bicycle then it fits here.
Mopeds, segways, scooters, motorcycles and e-peds are NOT bicycles and if you remove the motor/engine the thing don't go no more.

No Segway will ever get discussed here because if anything is representative of lazyness on a stick a Segway would be it :notamused:
Motorcycles lost their relationship to the bicycle around the beginning of the 20th Century and I won't stand for those either. I used to own a 1980s heavyweight lump of a motorcycle until I was medically forbidden to have anything to do with it anymore due to this illness I live with. The joy of rediscovering the true 'motor-bicycle' of the veteran 'heroic' era has been profound and I delight in the sensation of riding a proper real steel prewar bicycle fitted with a motorised attachment. Nobody needs a 1200cc motorcycle. Every fine Summer Sunday morning I see endless streams of aging motorcycle potatoes sitting astride their small car sized Harley clones passing by my gate. :rolleyes: No doubt all trying to leave their boring lives in the city behind and hoping that the present finance crash won't result in their great lumpy bike being repossessed.

A proper motor-bicycle :thumb:
http://i201.photobucket.com/albums/aa276/Sianelleofavelorn/BikeMuseum-1.jpg

Sianelle,

From the ignorance of internal combustion assisted bicycle technology expressed in this thread one reason to allow discussion of them would be to provide much needed education on the topic.

Benefits of ICE assist:
- economical - a very good ICE bike costs about the same or less than a good quality road bike
- practical - much faster than a pedal only bike, refuel in minutes at any gas station, go over 100 miles between refueling, commute to work even if it's 30 miles away
- legality - in many places they are treated the same as a bicycle, in many more places they are treated as a moped with minimal license expense (total cost for me in Michigan is $2.50/year)
- fun - since it is a bicycle they ride and handle just like a bicycle, the joy I get riding my pedal only bicycle in the country I also get on my ICE bike - excellent for those that can't pedal very far without assist
- A Whizzer sounds so cool!

One of the biggest differences I've experienced is the enhanced courtesy of car drivers. Coasting uphill at 30mph gets noticed! My Whizzer looks like a WWII era bicycle. Drivers notice it and generally behave better than when I'm on the pedal bike. The most common question is how many miles per gallon does it get (125).

I looked into ebikes and they can't do the job for me. ICE bikes are still bikes but are a huge improvement over taking the car everywhere that's too far to pedal. There are likely others that may come to this forum investigating whether electric assist would allow them to use their car less. At least a sticky with basic information on ICE would be of benefit to those for whom an ebike won't do the job.

..........if you remove the motor/engine the thing don't go no more.

No Segway will ever get discussed here because if anything is representative of lazyness on a stick a Segway would be it :notamused:



Therein lies the conundrum.......people get alt powered 2 wheelers because
"the thing don't go " without the engine....get it ? ;)

Although I agree with you about the Segway, why cant that explanation be applied
to people who buy e.bikes ?? :eek:

Please understand I am not trying to be combative or antagonistic, I am just
very against the splintering of forums that has gone on in the last year and now
even considering a gas powered subforum is a new low I have no choice but to be
a very vocal "anti" about. It just seems wrong and not in the spirit of the original
intention of the forum which is the one I support.

http://www.wheelfunrentals.com/WheelFun/Content/Images/What%20We%20Rent/Grande_%20Surrey.jpg

It used to be so simple :( :cry: :crash: :crash:

In my opinion, if it's possible to remove the powerplant and still have a rideable bicycle then it fits here.


I agree with you on the technical side. But the presence of the gasoline engine, which is what is being discussed, is what removes the bicycle and introduces a vehicle which is for all purposes a low speed motorcycle. Cycling infrastructure in green spaces is not designed for them, cyclists don't enjoy riding with them, and they really don't fit in anywhere but on the road as a vehicle - the same as a motor vehicle.

Whereas electric bicycles mesh with bicycling activities with the same level of freedom as a regular bicycle in many cases, what is left in the gas bike is that they have the chassis of a bicycle, but the soul and purpose of a scooter or LSM.

But, i'm not 100% opposed to them having a presence here, after considering it. They can serve a useful purpose, and I suppose that their technical discussion could have a good tie-in, as could their users benefit from forums like Utility or Commuting. Perhaps while I find them to be a motorized vehicle more so than a bicycle, there is always more room for recognizing bicycles for their value in practicality, rather than solely as a recreational toy.

I'd like to note that my vote is being shifted to " Only if they have their own sticky thread."

In my opinion, if it's possible to remove the powerplant and still have a rideable bicycle then it fits here. Mopeds, segways, scooters, motorcycles and e-peds are NOT bicycles and if you remove the motor/engine the thing don't go no more.

I do agree with your logic. However, with a total of only 52 votes over the past several days I think this argument is probably - making a mountain out of a molehill. If you change the forum title to "assisted" or leave it "electric" how many people are really gonna care? 50 or so give or take the Ontario Sheriff? LOL...

I will follow all forms of powered bicycles regardless what the forum title sez because I love efficient hybrid propulsion. Any way you get there is fine with me as long as whatever you're using doesn't pose much serious threat of damage/injury to me, my family or others...

imo - gassers should never be allowed on bike paths and they should not be louder than average traffic on the streets. I also think all riders of any "bike" need more defensive training.

currently, I don't need oil power but if I did I'm just glad I live in a country that allows me to use it.

I must agree about the gassers on bike paths thing. I know I wouldn't do it as it would just be plain bad manners to take an IC engine there.

See - one more legit reason to discuss related technology. How else will we know the thoughts and ideas of others?

best...

A 250' climb in 1/2 mile is about a 8-10% grade and would definitely need some pedal assistance to make it to the top without stressing out the engine. What kind of chain problems is your friend having? And if it's an add on the gearing could be wrong.

.

The chain broke after only maybe 50 miles.
The way the gear attaches is to the non drive side of the wheel. It uses a sort of sandwich with bolts around the spokes. Before the chain let go, it looked wobbly.
I'm going to get a chain, then put it together, then take pics, and start a thread about it.

Just to be the devil's advocate, weren't electric bike people complaining about being excluded and marginalized by the greater bicycle community? I don't think any laws of the universe (or even Ontario) will be violated by simply discussing a topic.

I don't frequent bike paths but the ones I've seen prohibit all motorized vehicles, not just ICE powered.

The chain broke after only maybe 50 miles.
The way the gear attaches is to the non drive side of the wheel. It uses a sort of sandwich with bolts around the spokes. Before the chain let go, it looked wobbly.
I'm going to get a chain, then put it together, then take pics, and start a thread about it.

You have to spend some time making sure the sprocket is running true when it comes to tightening all those bolts. And it pays to check them often during the running in period. Don't use the original kit bolts, get some proper grade 6 fasteners on the job. Loctite is your friend. :thumb:

Loctite is your friend. :thumb:

which should clearly indicate that vibration is your enemy.

And vibration translates into noise, poor efficiency and eventual mechanical failures.



I mean what we are encouraging is the equivalent of having people riding around on leaf blowers, lawn mowers, chain saws and weed whackers. Think about what all these machines have in common- INCESSANT NOISE. In addition to that imagine that your neighbor decided, in the interest of economy and/to save oil chose to install an old style coal burner. The soot and pollution from this inefficient technology blowing into the air around you. And if you complain they say, "Hey, but look at all the oil I'm saving!" But I ask at what price? There are far better technologies including a simple pedal bicycle or an electric assist motor that can accomplish the same things with better efficiency and less noise and pollution.

I purchased an expensive e bike at the begining of spring, and i have to say i was not very impressed. I ended up selling it. I picked up a beach cruiser with a 2 stroke motor on it and it by far exceeds the ebike in every catagory. Just my 2 cents. These guys have some real cool bikes. I will post a link

http://custommotorizedbicycles.net

which should clearly indicate that vibration is your enemy.

And vibration translates into noise, poor efficiency and eventual mechanical failures.



I mean what we are encouraging is the equivalent of having people riding around on leaf blowers, lawn mowers, chain saws and weed whackers. Think about what all these machines have in common- INCESSANT NOISE. In addition to that imagine that your neighbor decided, in the interest of economy and/to save oil chose to install an old style coal burner. The soot and pollution from this inefficient technology blowing into the air around you. And if you complain they say, "Hey, but look at all the oil I'm saving!" But I ask at what price? There are far better technologies including a simple pedal bicycle or an electric assist motor that can accomplish the same things with better efficiency and less noise and pollution.

Yes that is true about the maddening howl of small yard engines. However it is possible with a little care and fabrication to devise better exhaust systems; - and at least on a bicycle there is more room for them which usually isn't true in the case of the donor yard tool. To tell the complete truth I don't really like the use of high reving yard tool engines as bicycle engines and I much prefer to use something a little more designed for the purpose.
Um..... actually where I live we have unbelieveable amounts of cheap coal and firewood so nobody uses oil heating anyway. I've never really noticed any nuisance from my neighbours' fireplaces and chimneys, but then on the other hand we get a pretty steady prevailing wind that clears it away. I was considering devising a small wind generator for charging my electric tricycle and to provide emergency lighting in Winter when a passing storm system takes out the local power grid like it did a couple of days ago.

There seems to be a lot of assumptions being made about gas powered bikes in this thread. To start, it would be very difficult to mount a lawnmower engine on a bike without busting the frame. Lawnmower engines are usually around 3.5HP - 6HP. The gas engines used on bikes are almost always 50cc or less (with the exception of the Chinese 70cc kits) to maintain legality which pits them around 1HP - 1.5HP.

Two-stroke motors are known to be a bit loud but 4-strokes can be very quiet. Try doing a search on YouTube for some videos of 4-stroke bikes and judge for yourself the volume.

Many people view a gas-powered bike as an alternative to a car, not an alternative to an electric bike. For practical purposes an electric bike can not be viewed as an alternative to a car because of limited range. Depending on your perspective, getting a car off the road is a good thing at any cost.

Bike trails are fine if they exist, but some people (like myself) use a bike as straight utility transportation to get from point A to point B. I would say that most gas-powered bike operators are conscientious about their surroundings and wouldn't go down some nature trail at full-bore just because it's 'their right'. Most gas bikes come with a kill switch that allows the user to stop the engine at any time and continue to pedal the bike manually.

Is everyone who drives an electric bike an environmental activist too? I ask this because 'in theory' all those dead batteries will be properly disposed of or recycled, where as in actuality many won't bother with the hassle and will just put them out with the trash. In the same way, cars with worn out catalytic converters aren't always replaced with new ones. Some drivers just cut out the converter and let all that pipe pollution flow right on through.

If one of the main purposes of this forum is to hold up the environment then it should be clearly stated when new users sign up. If it's just about people who use bikes, then I think gas conversation has its place as well.

Zeuser, if you remember there were a ton of people who did not want electric bikes on BF at all.
Ebikes and gas bikes do have a lot of common issues, bicycle component wear is just one.
Learn to share.

Then get the gas bikes their own forum. Or if you rename the "electric bike" forum to "power assisted bikes", that can work too.

But I guarantee mixing gas bikes with electric bikes will cause confusion, especially regarding legalities of each. It has elsewhere and it will here too.

Zeuser, most of us don't care about the current state of Ontario law. Quit going on about it already. What is it with you Ontarians - some making such a big deal about how scooter e-bikes are "good" because Ontario says they're street-legal bikes and how gas bikes are "bad" because Ontario says they aren't street-legal. This is not a forum about Ontario law and it doesn't claim to be a forum that's only about street-legal bikes either. (for what it's worth, the state I live in, Pennsylvania, doesn't distinguish between e-bikes and gas bikes. As far as I know people mostly don't comply with the law, but both are required to comply with "mo-ped" registration & license plate, etc.) Should I come in here shouting about what's street-legal in Pennsylvania and how y'all should base all of your decisions on our laws?

Listen up: I was replying directly to an Ontario poster. There are many of us here. Last time I checked, this forum wasn't for everyone else but Ontarians either. :rolleyes:

I don't frequent bike paths but the ones I've seen prohibit all motorized vehicles, not just ICE powered.

Ebikes aren't considered motor vehicles by law. eBikes are allowed on bike paths just about everywhere. I checked this out for all of Canada before I got my own eBike so I could be sure.

So...

ICE powered = no bike paths
Electric = bike paths

I'm from calgary, just thought i would post the laws for power bicycles here. Perfectly legal. Its a shame some provinces are so narrow minded. I personally feel if you can take an ebike on the path, it should be the same for gas.

DEFINITION
2. (1) In this Bylaw:
(c) "bicycle" means a cycle propelled by human power on which a person can ride,
regardless of the number of wheels it has, and includes a vehicle that:
(i) may be propelled by muscular or mechanical power;
(ii) is fitted with pedals that are continually operable to propel it;
(iii) weighs not more than 35 kilograms;
(iv) has a motor that produces not more than 750 watts and that is driven by electricity or
has an engine displacement of not more than 50 cubic centimetres;
(v) has no hand or foot operated clutch or gearbox driven by the motor that transfers the
power to the driven wheel; and
(vi) does not have sufficient power to enable it to obtain a speed greater than 35
kilometres per hour on level ground within a distance of 2 kilometres from a standing
start;
(q.2) "High Occupancy Vehicle" means a bus (whether or not operated by Calgary
Transit), any motor vehicle with two or more occupants (excluding an unborn
child), or a bicycle;

I disagree. If I lived right next to a path, like the Glen Erin Trail in Mississauga, I wouldn't want to have a "putt putt... brrrr... pow" zipping around my back yard.

eBikes on the other hand a very quiet. Nobody can hear me coming. Most people can't tell I've got an electric motor on the bike.

I must agree, it's not a question of whether or not it's legal to ride a gas powered bike on a path, but whether or not it's good manners to do so.
As I said I wouldn't do it.

I don't really see much of a reason for not allowing gas-powered bicycles on this forum too just like electric-powered bicycles. The argument that 'electric bikes don't pollute' doesn't hold true: the electricity its battery was charged with was most likely produced in a gas, coal or nuclear powered plant. (And *yes*, I know small gas engines are perhaps dirtier than a well-engineered electric power plant. But it becomes just a matter of degrees then, doesn't it ? How much 'pollution' is allowed for it to be a valid topic on the forum...).


http://i201.photobucket.com/albums/aa276/Sianelleofavelorn/FrenchRocketBike.jpg?t=1216853612

Sianelle, I *very* much like the picture in your original post. A pulsejet powered bike. Reminded me of an old project of mine, a home-built pulsejet engine. Was a popular project in the '50s. Extremely noisy engines :D , with a typical sound. I bet riding one of those in the streets over here (Netherlands) would give many a senior citizen a cardiac arrest (the German V1 'buzzbomb' used a pulsejet for its propulsion. Bad memories). Not sure about their fuel efficiency and pollution.

So, if I were to build a pulsejet-powered bicycle like this guy (Kiwi too, incidentally) : http://www.aardvark.co.nz/pjet/

would that be an allowable topic on this forum ? :)

So, if I were to build a pulsejet-powered bicycle like this guy (Kiwi too, incidentally) : http://www.aardvark.co.nz/pjet/

would that be an allowable topic on this forum ? :)

:eek: :twitchy: