Tandem Cycling - Project BRB (Big Red Bike)

Hello all.

I'm new here. Joined up 'cause I'm new to the world of two seaters, and will have some questions around here.

I'm far from new to the two-wheeled world though, as I've been mountain and road biking since 1995 and working in bike shops (off and on) for just as long. I've sold bikes, built bikes, managed bike shops, and worked a while at a local bike company as an intern helping to build frames. I'm not a professional bike mechanic, but I'm pretty handy with my tools.

This week, I bought a 1993 or '94 Burley Rock 'n Roll, my first tandem. Currently it's 21-speed with cantilevers and Arai drum brake, flat bars, SunTour thumb shifters, F/R Blackburn Racks, Zephal full fenders. The right-hand brake lever is attached to both cantis and the left lever is hooked up to the drum! Odd to me, but from what I understand, not that odd, just old-school.

It will be getting a thorough overhaul in the next couple of weeks. It will receive a new quick-release 9-speed 40-spoke rear wheel keeping the drum brake, but connecting it to one of the thumb-shifters for use as a drag-brake. Shifting duties will be handled by Grip-shift Attack twist shifters and a Shimano Deore rear Derailleur. Brakes will be upgraded to Alivio V's pulled with Avid Speed Dials in a conventional manner. I brought home the rear der., 11-32 cassette and brakes from work today, the brake levers, saddles, some different handlebars, bottle cages, tire liners and bar-ends got pulled out of my spare-parts bins. After 14 years of cycling, I have some pretty impressive parts bins! ;)

Since I'm still waiting on the new rear wheel, tandem cables and the shifters, I'm somewhat limited in my ability to rebuild it, but I'm getting started anyway. Last night I took off the toe-clips, for now it's got platforms, it will get SPDs. I swapped the seats and bottle cages out, too.

Tonight, I'm going to take off the nasty foam grips and install the new braking system. I'll just leave the drum brake hanging until I get the new shifters and wheel.

It should be a pretty sweet bike when I'm done, and buying parts at employee price from the bike shop, I should be able to finish up this bike with only about $600 in it. Not bad for a tandem!

Here it is as purchased:
http://www.gofast42.smugmug.com/photos/336173448_3AjLv-M.jpg
http://www.gofast42.smugmug.com/photos/336174031_RJtA5-M.jpg

Burley R&R was then their top of the line Mt. bike tandem. Looks to be in real good shape for a 13 year old!
Enjoy the ride TWOgether!
Rudy and Kay/zonatandem

V-brakes are on, swapped out the front bar for a lighter one from the bin, hooked up the drum brake to the rear thumb shifter, removed the front shifter.

Pictures here, with captions.
(http://www.gofast42.smugmug.com/gallery/5494692_RVWsg#336082177_gBMSb)

I'm following this with some interest. I've got a 91 Duet that I'll have to upgrade someday, so your project is informative. I'm particularly interested in how the 9sp wheel goes into the rear triangle. Do you plan to cold set or just cram it in there?

9 speed spacing will fit no problem; we have an old Duet (which was spaced 140 mm) and "modern" road spacing is 130. Even "modern" MTB is 135, again, which is no issue.

I'm particularly interested in how the 9sp wheel goes into the rear triangle. Do you plan to cold set or just cram it in there?

THANK YOU!!

This is why I joined this forum, so that people who do know their stoker from a hole in the ground (unlike me) could keep me from going too far astray!

After reading your question, I called Burley. I was told that in the time frame that this bike was built, the rear hub spacing was indeed 140mm. The new wheel I've ordered is 145mm, and that is the standard Burley switched to in around 1996 when they switched over to Shimano rear hubs. I was also informed that "you can do a lot with cro-moly, this isn't an aluminum frame that will crack if you flex it." She was quick to mention that this was not her "professional advice" but that she's done it before and it will work.

So, to answer your question: I'll be widening the frame. Cold-setting as you put it. I will likely enlist the help of the mechaniacs at my shop though, so as to use the least destructive method of doing this.


9 speed spacing will fit no problem; we have an old Duet (which was spaced 140 mm) and "modern" road spacing is 130. Even "modern" MTB is 135, again, which is no issue.

What you've posted here is all correct, but you didn't mention that "modern" tandem spacing is 145mm.

Thanks again for bringing this up, it hadn't even occurred to me. My '95 Gary Fisher Mountain Bike came as a 7-speed, and switching it to 8 was only a matter of replacing the rear wheel with one that was dished for an 8/9 speed hub. I assumed that the tandem would require the same thing!

While is true that one of the contemporary tandem spacings is 145 (the other being Santana's at 160), I built a 9 speed wheel for our ol' Duet using a brand new Phil Wood hub without the need to respace the frame. That's a nice thing about PW hubs; you can get them in the spacing you need. I've respaced many singles before (generally nice Italian ones, and from 126 to 130), but if I had to respace our Duet from 140 to 145 that would require some SERIOUS pull! They didn't call them Burley for nothing!

They didn't call them Burley for nothing!

FWIW: Burley started out as Burley Bike Bags, a soft goods manufacturer... and the name Burley was, well, you can read the rest here: http://www.burley.com/company/history.cfm

Well, project BRB is on temporary hold, as I wait for further parts shipments.

Monday the order should go in for my new rear wheel, cables, shifters and headset, and I should see all the parts on Wednesday and Thursday, just in time to get them on the bike before my stoker gets back from taking the bar exam in Atlanta! Sadly, we won't have time next weekend to take the new big bike out on a ride as we're headed out of town for a family reunion. :(

Anyway, I was looking at the bike this afternoon and realized I'm probably going to have to pull the rear fender and maybe the rear rack off in order to mount the hitch for my son's trailer. The hardware for the fender is definitely going to get in the way, the rack may get to stay. I don't see us doing any touring in the immediate future that will call for the rack, but I would really like to do some of that later on.

So, does anyone know of a source for 1" threadless tandem forks that are V-brake or even disc brake compatible? I'm sure I could get Santana or IF or someone to custom make one for me, but does anyone know of an affordable source for such a fork?

I lied. The project advanced slightly this evening as I removed the racks and fenders, front and rear. With all of that off, I'm feeling inspired to stick some knobbies on this big beast and go mountain biking. Sadly, my wife has already expressed a pretty large disinterest in that idea!

So, most of my parts should have come into the shop today, and I should be nearly done installing them by now, but my son has been sick all week, and I've had to take off work to sit home with him while my wife was out of town. I got word that some of my parts arrived today, but since I wasn't there to cherry-pick them out of the parts shipments, we'll have to see if I can find everything tomorrow when I finally get back into the shop.

I did buy a whole new timing crank set-up for the BRB today though! New Old Stock Shimano Deore DX, $46 shipped! Woohoo!
http://www.southfacedesign.com/ebay/brandnews-1209899760-6139.jpg

Ugh, two steps forward, one step back.

My parts arrived, nearly everything is installed, nothing really works.

The Alivio V-brakes are on, wired, and feel good with the Avid SpeedDials levers. The GripShifters are on, hooked up with new (tandem-long) cables, and I put a piece of housing on the front derailleur cable to keep it from rubbing on the bottom bracket any more. I think I even got it shifting, can't remember now. The 9-speed cassette is on the wheel, but I haven't tightened it down yet 'cause my lockring tool is in storage. The new wheel fits into the frame with just a little convincing, 5mm isn't much flexing on a cro-mo frame. The Deore rear derailleur is installed, as is the new 9-spd chain, but the chain is too short and the der. rubs in every gear, except the smallest, which it doesn't go into at all.

My ebay timing cranks showed up today, they look great, and I'd love to install them, but my crank arm tool is in storage. grrrrrrr...

I found a source on Ebay (same guy I bought the cranks from, actually) for a 1" threaded cro-mo fork, I'm just waiting to hear back from him on the length of the fork blades so I don't screw with the geometry of the frame too much.

I took the front wheel in to the shop today to get it tensioned and trued, was told to overhaul the hub, and found that the hub had been really loose, so the cones were pitted and my shop didn't have any that fit. I'm looking at a few options for replacing the whole wheel, and I'll see how that works out before just ordering new cones and using the wheel I have.

I got quick releases for both seat posts, but the one on the captain's post doesn't get tight enough to keep it from rotating any time any pressure is put on the stoker's bars! I may have to just go back to the bolted clamp from before.

So, all in all, the project is coming along, and like all restoration projects, it's costing more than expected, but I'll still be ahead of buying new, and if it doesn't work out, we'll have a sellable tandem worth more than we have in it. I'm just getting impatient to ride the damned thing!

I also haven't managed to get the drum brake off of the old rear wheel and on to the new one. I know how, I just haven't fabricated the tool yet.

sigh... someday, we'll ride....

Just for curiosity, why did you buy new cranks?

Generally speaking, everything on the bike was so old and worn out that it seemed like a good idea. I was going to want to replace the timing chain, and read that timing chains tend to wear and stretch, simultaneously wearing out their chainrings. Once it looked like I might need to replace the chainrings I decided to jump on the super deal on cranks I found on ebay.

The bike will be 90% new parts by the time I'm done with it, but with two of us riding it, towing the kid, I think I prefer it that way. :D

Are you sure that's a 1" fork? Mine is a 1 1/8" threaded. Finding stems is a pain.

Sure? No, I'm not entirely sure. I'm taking it in to my shop today, I'll find out. It would be great if it were 1 1/8. I could go threadless!

I could go threadless!

That will be my ultimate solution, but in the meantime Cannondales used to come with 1 1/8" quill stems so they're out there, just not in great numbers.

Mine is definitely a 1". I ordered a fork tonight from this guy on Ebay (http://myworld.ebay.com/mrbikeman). I'm going to stick with threaded, but I may get one of those adapters that allows me to use 1 1/8 threaded stems. As mentioned, I already bought timing cranks from this vendor, they came quick and they are brand new, even if they are 15 years old!

Speaking of which, In the one step forward, two steps back category:

I installed the new cranks, only to figure out that the stock cranks on the bike were 170mm, and I bought 175mm's. Now I need a new drive crank. Ugh.

I also added the 4-5 links I needed to get the drivetrain working, and figured out what was wrong with the rear derrailleur, and mostly solved that. The front der. needs some work, but I'm not going to bother with that until the new crank is selected and installed.

Got my new front rim today, but I'm waiting on the hub, which may arrive tomorrow, may arrive Monday. Also got the new drive crank for the bike, but the fork still hasn't shown up, after 8 days from 2 states away. grrrrrr......

Everything is here, now I just need my mechanic to build up the front wheel.

Then I need to get the fork, the drive crank, and the timing chain on, and we'll be ready to roll.

AAAAAAARRRRRGGGGGGHHHHH!

I got the drive crank on, but my mechanic didn't get my wheel done, and the fork was too short. Totally dejected, I didn't even bother with the timing chain. This project is driving me crazy.

Got the second fork! It's plenty long. I strongly recommend that Ebay vendor. He's got a bunch of new old stock bike bits for sale, including the sets of DX captain's cranks I got for $46!

Now if my mechanic would just get off his _ _ _ and build my wheel, we'd be good to go!

Still no wheel? Grrrr. I'd be frustrated too.

Well, as long as I didn't have a fork, I wasn't in a hurry to get the wheel done, and he knew that. Unfortunately, he took it a bit too much to heart, and as of yesterday, nothing had yet been done. It may be built when I go back to work on Sunday. I'm hoping.

Got the ESGE twin-leg kickstand, and the new tires: Panaracer Uff-Da's. They're meant to be "urban jumping tires" which means they are basically smooth 26X2.3" tires with tread all the way around the casing, right up to the bead. I figure that means much thicker than average sidewalls so they'll be more puncture-resistant. My boss has them on his Surly Big Dummy, and they roll nice and smooth.
http://www.panaracer.com/eng/products/mtb/image/UFFDA_20061011.jpg

I installed the rear tire tonight, along with a Mr. Tuffy tire liner, then re-adjusted the rear brake to stop it from rubbing on the WIDE tire. I'm very excited to say that it actually fits inside the frame, and I compared it to the fork, which also seems to have plenty of room. Now, if I only had a front wheel and if it weren't going to rain for the next three days, I could hope to get out and ride the red behemoth!

Finally, some real progress! The bike is built!

My mechanic got the front wheel built, I installed the new fork, and I got the timing chain on. The rear derailleur is on and functional, and my other mechanic re-spaced my new rear hub to the old standard. The only problem remaining is that the drive crank sits too far out from the frame, preventing me from being able to shift into the big ring at all. I'll be looking for a better fitting crank, then we should be good to go.

When I got home, I installed a cycle-computer and The Bell of DOOM, a gift I received from my wife's grandparents a few years back. There's no more appropriate bike for a huge bell such as this.

Tomorrow should see the maiden voyage of the BRB. After all this time and trouble, I'm looking forward to it.

Pics:
http://gofast42.smugmug.com/photos/385488068_kyBzK-L.jpg
http://gofast42.smugmug.com/photos/385488270_9bGSv-L.jpg
http://gofast42.smugmug.com/photos/385488507_yxx6Z-L.jpg
http://gofast42.smugmug.com/photos/385488715_vqaQ3-L.jpg
The back tire just fits!
http://gofast42.smugmug.com/photos/385488969_Bcafm-L.jpg
http://gofast42.smugmug.com/photos/385489201_j7Xxx-L.jpg

But, but, but...

where's the bell?

It should be a pretty sweet bike when I'm done, and buying parts at employee price from the bike shop, I should be able to finish up this bike with only about $600 in it. Not bad for a tandem!

Did you come in under budget?

But, but, but...

where's the bell?

My apologies...

Ladies and Gentlemen The bell:
http://gofast42.smugmug.com/photos/385852846_Lp4Qc-L.jpg

Mounted down and back so I can ring it forward with my thumb.

Notice also our blazing 13.2MPH top speed! My wife/stoker was a bit nervous at speed! :roflmao2: Still, she did great!
http://gofast42.smugmug.com/photos/385853111_3d3ZC-L.jpg

As for the budget... I was probably closer to $700, but frankly, I'm afraid to do the math! ;)

Or.. perhaps...$800. Ouch.

This photo has me question the front shifting

file:///C:/DOCUME%7E1/Paul/LOCALS%7E1/Temp/moz-screenshot-1.jpg

It appears you ran a full cable housing but have no cable stop, is it possible the housing should end on the downtube and just have inner wire to the derailleur?

PK

It's not full housing. The cable stop is all the way up front just behind the head-tube. From there, it was bare cable through the frame, under the bottom bracket (rubbing away the paint) and up to the front derraileur. I installed the piece of housing you see there to keep it from dragging across the bottom bracket any more. It's just free-floating but it should only improve shifting by taking out the drag.

Here's where it was dragging:
http://gofast42.smugmug.com/photos/337755002_34AVJ-M.jpg