Advocacy & Safety - Get off the roads please, on your toys?

...or is this a valid argument?

http://www.wickedlocal.com/belmont/news/opinions/x2050105539/Brown-People-are-asking-could-I-bicycle-to-work

Brown: People are asking: could I bicycle to work?

By Sumner Brown
Wed Jul 23, 2008, 09:21 PM EDT

Belmont, Mass. -

Most American children enjoy bicycles but forget about bicycling as soon as they get their learner's permits. This amnesia is starting to wear off: bicycling for recreation is booming, and bicycle enthusiasts routinely spend a few thousand dollars for a bicycle every few years. A tiny portion of the US population even bicycles to work. With the consequences of America's energy policy showing at the pump, people are changing their view of those who bicycle to work from crazy to lucky.

Bike paths make commuting easier
Bicycling could be a substantial part of our transportation system. In Europe, where gas prices commonly reach $9 a gallon, deliberate political leadership in many countries has produced more bicycling and less driving. Intersections, signals, and rules of the road have been modified to make cycling more attractive. In some cases, urban traffic signals have been synchronized to bicycle speeds. Much of Europe has a network of bike paths, so many bicycle trips are more pleasant and more convenient than driving. Some American cities are further along the bicycling pathway than others.

Massachusetts is developing a bicycle infrastructure that can provide both recreation and transportation. The Minuteman Bikeway, which runs from Bedford through Lexington, Arlington, and into Cambridge to the Alewife T station, is a wonderful example of what happens when a bike path is available: it gets used heavily. On a Saturday last September, observers counted 204 people per hour on the Minuteman Bikeway in Lexington Center from 7 a.m. to 7 p.m. About 70 percent of users were bicyclists; the rest were runners or walkers. The bikeway gets so much use that Arlington cleared snow from its part of the path this last winter just as it plows roads. On workdays, over 250 bikes are parked at the Alewife T station at the end of the Minuteman Bikeway. Demand for bike parking is so high that the MBTA is building a "bike cage" with camera surveillance to provide secure parking for another 50 bicycles.

If you take the Minuteman Bikeway to Alewife, you can continue on the Linear Park bike path to the Davis Square T station and a bit beyond. There are also bike paths beside the Charles River. More bike paths are planned, including one from the Alewife T to Brighton Street in Belmont: construction of this short path (under a mile) could begin this fall. Some roads in Cambridge and in Belmont have painted bike lanes. When reconstruction of Route 60, Pleasant Street, in Belmont is finished, it will have painted bike lanes. We should thank Anne Paulsen, who championed legislation that requires new state roads to have bike lanes.

City biking remains a challenge
Could you bicycle to work? It's easy to enjoy riding a bicycle on the Cape Cod Bike Path on a sunny day. But to bicycle to work without a bike path requires superior bicycling skills. You must be able to follow a precise path through potholes while traffic moves past you and makes right-hand turns in front of you. You must stay clear of parked cars whose doors might be opened without warning. You must know how to make a left-hand turn in heavy traffic. You must be constantly aware of traffic. You must be able to bicycle in unpleasant conditions and look professional when you get to work. You must be able to go under the Belmont Center railroad underpass and turn onto Concord Avenue in rush hour traffic. Then there is the exhaust.

In short, biking to work without a bike path is no fun. But if you live in Arlington or Lexington, and if you work near the Minuteman bike path or the Linear Park path, you can commute with healthful pleasure. Health, financial considerations, and our nation's sustainability point to a future with more bicycling.

Sumner Brown is a Belmont Town Meeting Member and a director of the Belmont Citizens Forum. This article is a version of one in the July-August issue of the Belmont Citizens Forum newsletter, available at the Belmont Memorial Library and on line at www.belmontcitizensforum.org. Or request a sample copy with a note to PO Box 609, Belmont, MA 02478. The Citizens Forum is a nonprofit organization that strives to maintain the small-town atmosphere of Belmont by preserving its natural and historical resources, limiting traffic growth, and enhancing pedestrian safety.


refer 1:
Urban bike paths
Governments around the world have been redesigning roads and creating new systems to promote bicycling. Denmark's network of bike lanes: www.copenhagenize.com

Paris's bicycle-rental program: www.npr.org/templates/story/story.php?storyId=14429468

Seattle's bicycle master plan: www.ci.seattle.wa.us/transportation/bikemaster.htm

Portland, Oregon's bicycle programs: www.portlandonline.com/transportation/index.cfm?c=34772

Bicycling in Boston: www.cityofboston.gov/transportation/bike.asp
Massachusetts Bicycle Coalition: www.massbike.org
LivableStreets Alliance: www.livablestreets.info


refer 2
Selected Boston Area Bike Paths

Minuteman Bikeway: minutemanbikeway.org
Alewife Linear Park: en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cambridge_Linear_Park

Charles River Bike Path: www.mass.gov/dcr/parks/metroboston/maps/bikepaths_dudley.gif

Boston Bikeways and Trails: www.massbike.org/bikeways/indexb.htm

I pay road taxes, I ride on the roads.

I pay road taxes, I ride on the roads.

Exactly, as do I, but the article seems to be a "gtfo my roads" piece disguised as a "gtfo my roads" piece.

Exactly, as do I, but the article seems to be a "gtfo my roads" piece disguised as a "gtfo my roads" piece.

I thought it was just written by an author completely ignorant of the subject matter. Like so much of corporate journalism today.

List of "superior" skills unavailable to Sumner Brown:

Not passing right turning traffic on the right
Riding outside of the door zone
Issuing a hand signal and negotiating a merge
Paying attention
Getting wet and not melting
Showering or birdbathing and getting changed into fresh clothes
Not tailgating diesel trucks and buses

It seems to be a "biking on the road is horribly dangerous and sucks a lot, I thought about trying it once, and just looking out the window of my suv made me think up this article. we need more bike lanes so nobody has to do it."

Thats about what I read.

Oh and biking in traffic really sucks, and you need superhuman skills to do it. Just ask anyone who has never tried it, they all agree.

:)

Although I do appreciate the compliment on my cycling skills, I do not think they are super-human. I drive the same way in my car.

Looked dead on to me. Unfortunately cycling in a city demands skills most people don't have and don't see a way to get.

Unfortunately cycling in a city demands skills most people don't have and don't see a way to get.

Like common sense? :roflmao2:

Riding a bike in traffic isn't rocket science.
If you can dodge a wrench, you can dodge a car.

I read a comment to the article on that website..............

"Driving in traffic as a vehicle is just fine, does not require super-human powers, or x-ray vision. You bike just like you would drive your car, maybe a little bit slower. (Or if you are an unrepentant speeder, a LOT slower).

This article is making things worse for cyclists, please educate yourself.

Worse than ignorance alone, the American public and transportation establishment base their beliefs and actions on a false foundation. Motorists and the vast majority of bicycle owners have no understanding of the concepts and safety of proper cycling and how easy it is for motorists and cyclists to coexist. Rather than working for the little that is needed to make vehicular cycling safe, easy and practical on every road, American bicycle advocacy, decisions and goals are invariably based on the toy-bicycle syndrome.

Bicycles are vehicles and belong in the road. Motorists need to learn how to share the roads.

I ride in traffic all the time, it really is not that bad, until you run into a motorist who thinks you do not belong there and feels it is their duty to run you off the road and put you in your place."


I have no idea what it's like in other areas of the country, but where I live (Tyler, TX), it's downright dangerous to ride a bicycle on many streets. All of the bicyclists I have talked to so far, don't want to commute because a majority of the vehicular drivers are uneducated about bicyclists. Also the state of Texas is uneducated about it and they don't seem to be progressing. Down here it seems like much of the mentality is that Texas is oil and oil is forever. All the hype about oil is just hype....... I hear it all the time and as far as the mentality about cycling? Only idiots or fools ride bikes and we ain't gonna give em an inch........ From what I see on law here, there's no special law about bikers getting hit by cars. If they are injured it's not an issue, it's just like driving a car and there's not one special regulation about a vehicle driver getting in any more trouble for running over a cyclist than another vehicle driver....

Actually, even though I plan to cycle for leisure, on state park bike trails, I do not think cyclists and vehicular traffic should coexist here in Tyler. I know that's terrible, but when I am driving, I don't want to have to stop behind a cyclist and wait to pull around, because there's no shoulder on the majority of the city streets here and there's no place for the cyclist to go except right in there with traffic. Many people won't slow down, passing dangerously close or honking their horns trying to force the cyclist to jump the curb. I have seen it more than once.

I know other states are different. People were more aware in the parts of Iowa I lived in and they paid attention to bicyclists..... Also there was room for cyclists on shoulders, on most of the roads.



The US will not be an alternative transportation nation, till there's no more oil to be had, plain and simple.

Sorry, I'm rambling again......

mixed article. bike infrastructure systems of municipal transportational bike paths work in many cities across the USA and the globe as a spine for regional bicycling.

u in your place."[/COLOR][/I]


I have no idea what it's like in other areas of the country, but where I live (Tyler, TX), it's downright dangerous to ride a bicycle on many streets. All of the bicyclists I have talked to so far, don't want to commute because a majority of the vehicular drivers are uneducated about bicyclists. Also the state of Texas is uneducated about it and they don't seem to be progressing. Down here it seems like much of the mentality is that Texas is oil and oil is forever. All the hype about oil is just hype....... I hear it all the time and as far as the mentality about cycling? Only idiots or fools ride bikes and we ain't gonna give em an inch........ From what I see on law here, there's no special law about bikers getting hit by cars. If they are injured it's not an issue, it's just like driving a car and there's not one special regulation about a vehicle driver getting in any more trouble for running over a cyclist than another vehicle driver....

Actually, even though I plan to cycle for leisure, on state park bike trails, I do not think cyclists and vehicular traffic should coexist here in Tyler. I know that's terrible, but when I am driving, I don't want to have to stop behind a cyclist and wait to pull around, because there's no shoulder on the majority of the city streets here and there's no place for the cyclist to go except right in there with traffic. Many people won't slow down, passing dangerously close or honking their horns trying to force the cyclist to jump the curb. I have seen it more than once.

I know other states are different. People were more aware in the parts of Iowa I lived in and they paid attention to bicyclists..... Also there was room for cyclists on shoulders, on most of the roads.



The US will not be an alternative transportation nation, till there's no more oil to be had, plain and simple.

Sorry, I'm rambling again......

Tyler is no worse or better than any other city in Texas from what you say about it. Used to ride my bike in Lufkin, a smaller town, but the same attitudes as Tyler. It was fine most of the time. I've ridden in Houston almost all my life, mostly on city streets. Just get out and do it.

Looked dead on to me. Unfortunately cycling in a city demands skills most people don't have and don't see a way to get.

Cycling in a city requires nothing more than a bare amount of common sense and a knowledge of traffic laws. It's safer than driving a car. Please don't encourage people you know to adopt the whole 'cycling is dangerous' nonsense.

I moved to the Boston area in 1980 and have been bike commuting the whole time I've lived here. Yeah, it's a challenge but certainly manageable to ride on the roads here. The author of the article is clearly catering to a suburban, somewhat upscale crowd that prefers their bike rides unencumbered by the great unwashed and as near a Starbucks and Whole Foods as humanly possible at all times.

As much as I can mock the bourgeois habits of these cyclists I, in many ways, could count myself as one of them. Despite my many miles and years of experience braving Boston's streets and roads on a daily basis I must confess that my own preference is to take the Charles River MDC bike path from Watertown Square to the Hatch Shell and only deal with a mile or two of Boston's streets.

Like the Minuteman bike path the opportunity to ride 10 miles in some relationship to a more natural environment where a rider might see anything from a coyote to a hawk to a Norway rat is preferable for many of us to the lines of parked cars, jaywalking pedestrians, trolleys and trolley tracks, transit buses and some of the most aggressive drivers west of Naples, Italy. I ride in along the river and watch the rowers and negotiate through the crowds of Canadian geese and arrive at my destination relaxed and blissed out like I've just been on vacation. Granted I don't commute in the summer months in Boston as I am in Western Mass. or Manhattan during that time of the year so I don't struggle along the bike path when it is thick with joggers, rollerbladers, strollers, dog walkers, weaving cyclists and pedestrians.

It's too bad she painted such a bleak picture of riding on the roads, however, since it's not all that bad and often is the preferred option. I think the author may have earned us a few more "get off the road" admonishments and for that I am not too grateful.

Like common sense? :roflmao2:

Riding a bike in traffic isn't rocket science.
If you can dodge a wrench, you can dodge a car.

I don't know why everyone seems a little touchy about this; the bike skills that are listed are factually correct. You need to be able to do those things safely. Unfortunately, common sense isn't too common sometimes.

As an example, 'common sense' to most people dictates staying as far right as possible, and most of us know that that is not always the best place to ride. Yes, yes, you would argue that that is not 'common sense', but most likely, you learned this through experience, something the new commuter lacks.

What the article lacks is the second part of the story, which is that while city cycling does take a certain amount of skill, almost anyone can do it with the right preparation and determination.

I highly agree. Reasonably competent cycling in general requires skills that most people don't seem to have developed very much based on the way they drive cars, walk, and otherwise interact. I don't dispute that folks can, if they desire, develop these skills, just that they don't currently possess them. Including the engagement and monitoring of their environment sufficiently to say safe. Just walk on a tourist trail in the Great Smokies. People fall over when walking on a regular basis once they're not on the level. Baffles me, but there you go.

People also in general seem to not know the rules and what used to be common practices of the road.

Motivation for riding for utilitarian purposes generally gets overwhelmed by the dangerous, don't know what I'm doing, looks like work objections.

And common sense does indeed dictate practices that don't actually work very well. Riding against traffic so you can see the cars coming. And so on.

The article reflects accurately what most people seem to feel - that the skills are so difficult to get and the dangers so extreme that they don't even deserve consideration. That cyclists are somehow a breed apart.

That we know this isn't true doesn't change the majorities perception.

I anticipate this slowly changing as more "ordinary" people take up cycling. I certainly hope it does.

In quite a few fields I've run into the "I wish" thinking. "Wow, you ______ very well, I wish I could do that." Blank stare when I explain that it's not that hard to try almost anything. Sort of the "I wish I had a Ph.D." Well, go to school, get one. "Don't you have to start as a little kid to play the violin?" No, I started when I was in my late 30s.

Still, where the motivation builds people figure things out, and I see the motivation to not drive rising. So we'll see more people cycling. I'd like to see stores really supporting commuting thoroughly, which is generally not done. What's obvious to cyclists isn't necessarily obvious to those entering the game.

With the uptick of noobs to BF and commuting in general, it's starting to become apparent that maybe John Forester was right concerning 'cyclist inferiority complex'...and it really pains me to have to say that.
The only skill required to competently operate a bicycle in traffic that seems to be lacking among the general population is the ability to overcome their fear.

unfortunately, it appears the environment of high speed traffic dictates the lack of cycling participation in this country-

it is in countries like denmark, that understand the psychology of bicycling much better than america, that see participation rates across all age groups and by both sexes.

overcoming fear of a hazardous environment? is this like asking why everyone doesn't skydive or backcountry ski?

With the uptick of noobs to BF and commuting in general, it's starting to become apparent that maybe John Forester was right concerning 'cyclist inferiority complex'...and it really pains me to have to say that.
The only skill required to competently operate a bicycle in traffic that seems to be lacking among the general population is the ability to overcome their fear.

+1

Even among some Army reservists (TA) I talked to in the UK there's a feeling that riding on the roads is too dangerous to even consider. I can only assume a lifetime of public transport and private vehicle use had just reinforced their feelings that roads are for cars.

One thing that was quite suprising in the "woman who stops traffic" TV series was children scared to walk on the pavement after having been driven to school for years. One child was quite convinced he'd get hit by a car while walking on the pavement even with a row of a parked cars between the pedestrians and the traffic.

There's some change over here with more practical cycling training for school children and government eduaction programs. However, there appears to be very little attention paid to adult education once they've passed, for drivers/riders, the relevant test and almost none for adult cyclists.

edit: clarity

oh, well, leave cycling advocacy to you guys with a 'training is the answer' falsefront, and cycling participation will continue to be rock bottom compared to countries and municipalities that better accomodate bicyclists.

and more hazardous too, autocentric traffic policies have made britain and the us two of the most dangerous western countries to bicycle in.

[QUOTE=fixedincome;7122034]do not belong there and feels it is their duty to run you off the road and put you in your place."[/COLOR][/I]


I have no idea what it's like in other areas of the country, but where I live (Tyler, TX), it's downright dangerous to ride a bicycle on many streets. QUOTE]

I have not been to your town. But I have been to places where people claim you can't ride a bike on the road, or it is dangerous, or difficult. Just haven't seen it. I have no doubt I could ride into your town,ride around, and have no trouble. It is not a special skill set, I am not a great rider. You can do it. You choose not to.

With the uptick of noobs to BF and commuting in general, it's starting to become apparent that maybe John Forester was right concerning 'cyclist inferiority complex'...and it really pains me to have to say that.
The only skill required to competently operate a bicycle in traffic that seems to be lacking among the general population is the ability to overcome their fear.


You may be to polite to say it outright. I am not. These people are cowards. Yellow-bellied cowards. Scared of their own shadows.

With the uptick of noobs to BF and commuting in general, it's starting to become apparent that maybe John Forester was right concerning 'cyclist inferiority complex'...and it really pains me to have to say that.
The only skill required to competently operate a bicycle in traffic that seems to be lacking among the general population is the ability to overcome their fear.

Typical of a new cycle commuter. I was the exact same way when I first started commuting. I didn't trust my skills on a bike, and I didn't trust the traffic, so I stayed 100% on the sidewalk or the bike path. Heck, I even walked the bike the last few blocks to work because it's illegal to ride on the sidewalk in the downtown area, and I was too damn scared to ride in the street.

Gradually, with more experience, I started to venture out in the roads more and more. Now, if there's a choice of a bike path or a road, I'll pick the road. It just takes time. As the sidewalk cyclers see people like myself and other bicyclists zipping past them in the road with traffic and not being turned into a fine, red mist by the autos, eventually they too will venture out into the roadways.

Cycling in a city requires nothing more than a bare amount of common sense and a knowledge of traffic laws. It's safer than driving a car. Please don't encourage people you know to adopt the whole 'cycling is dangerous' nonsense.

Cycling is dangerous. The key to cycling safely in traffic is recognizing what the dangers are in order to minimize or avoid them, but acknowledging that cycling is dangerous is hardly "nonsense."

"yellowbellied cowards"

THAT'll get people riding! bike Pattons in every city demanding traffic cycling from the cowards... :rolleyes:

Typical of a new cycle commuter. I was the exact same way when I first started commuting. I didn't trust my skills on a bike, and I didn't trust the traffic, so I stayed 100% on the sidewalk or the bike path. Heck, I even walked the bike the last few blocks to work because it's illegal to ride on the sidewalk in the downtown area, and I was too damn scared to ride in the street.

Gradually, with more experience, I started to venture out in the roads more and more. Now, if there's a choice of a bike path or a road, I'll pick the road. It just takes time. As the sidewalk cyclers see people like myself and other bicyclists zipping past them in the road with traffic and not being turned into a fine, red mist by the autos, eventually they too will venture out into the roadways.

Glad to hear you're more confident, have fun and stay safe.

If an experienced cyclist/cycling instructor had taken you out for lessons or shown you what to do would that have sped up/improved your learning to play in traffic experience?

That is, if there was a commuting cycling/cycling in trafic course offered would you have participated before jumping in feet first as you did?

Most American children enjoy bicycles but forget about bicycling as soon as they get their learner's permits.

I would say the very 1st statement is sooooooooooooooooooo off in terms of today's kids. Very few kids are riding bikes relative to 20 years ago. The minivan is the transportation choice for 95%.

... Brad

I would say the very 1st statement is sooooooooooooooooooo off in terms of today's kids. Very few kids are riding bikes relative to 20 years ago. The minivan is the transportation choice for 95%.

... Brad

You, sir, are the winner. For your prize you may choose one of the following...

I commuted from the Medford/Malden line through central downtown Boston to the Ft. Point area for about a year. If there were bike paths that could get me there, I didn't know about them and only used surface streets. This included a long stretch of 28/Fellsway, a short stint on the McGrath Highway, and a lot of Congress St. through the financial district and by South Station. To get to a second job in Central Sq. Cambridge, I'd skirt Downtown Crossing, head down by the Hospital and over the Longfellow bridge into Kendall and then over to Mass Ave. Returning home down Prospect and back to the McGrath/28/Fellsway. Traffic through all of this is as bad as it gets in Boston.

Before, I hadn't done any regular bike commuting. But: 1) I know how to ride a bike, and 2) I'm familiar with traffic laws. It took me a while to learn how to dress for the ride and anticipate weather and a hundred other little things about commuting that you get with experience, but the basic, "Get on your bike and ride to work," was pretty straightforward. I was actually surprised how undangerous it felt to be out there mixing it up with traffic. For the most part, if you can drive well in a location, you can ride well. And for all the jerks in cars out there, there's a vast majority who pass by giving ample room without incident. While drivers in the city might not like bicycle traffic, at least they are used to dealing with it.

I now do a rural commute and actually feel more exposed on two lane country roads with no shoulders than I ever did in Boston, mixing it up with M4$$h0le drivers. The author of the article is definitely reinforcing a negative perception of bicycle commuting by non cyclists in a totally unwarranted manner.

You may be to polite to say it outright. I am not. These people are cowards. Yellow-bellied cowards. Scared of their own shadows.

that's great stuff!

I can picture some poor commuter snivvelling at a traffic light, and General Patton giving that same speach and slapping him in the helmet with his riding crop


seriously, no argument from me there maddyfish

You may be to polite to say it outright. I am not. These people are cowards. Yellow-bellied cowards. Scared of their own shadows.

Agreed.

And it also pains me to hear cyclists wail about lack of bike lanes and such when I find it is really quite easy and safe to get by without them. So even cyclists are intimidated, and it's all overblown in my opinion.

You may be to polite to say it outright. I am not. These people are cowards. Yellow-bellied cowards. Scared of their own shadows.

Not everyone is afraid of traffic. Some of us just don't like being a hindrance to other people, holding them up, slowing them down. I don't like doing that when I'm driving and I don't like doing it when I'm biking. If there's plenty of room for people to get around me then it's fine, but if there isn't room for them to pass then I feel really bad about making drivers wait for me to get out of their way. Drivers who pass me closely in a narrow lane bother me much less than the ones who stay behind me and follow me at low speed. In such cases I'm not afraid; I'm embarrassed.

Of course, I'm talking about polite drivers here. If a driver acts like a jerk, then I don't at all mind inconveniencing him.

Glad to hear you're more confident, have fun and stay safe.

If an experienced cyclist/cycling instructor had taken you out for lessons or shown you what to do would that have sped up/improved your learning to play in traffic experience?

That is, if there was a commuting cycling/cycling in trafic course offered would you have participated before jumping in feet first as you did?

I don't think so. It just takes time to get some miles under my belt. There's a big difference between knowing your rights, and being confident enough to assert your rights.

I knew I could ride on the streets, I read this message board before I started commuting. However, before I started commuting, I hadn't been on a bike for probably 10 years. Took about 2-3 months of intermittent riding to get my skills back.

Most people I see riding on the sidewalks probably shouldn't be on the roads. The ones I see aren't that steady on a bike and their top speed is probably around 7mph.

Some of us just don't like being a hindrance to other people, holding them up, slowing them down. I don't like doing that when I'm driving and I don't like doing it when I'm biking

Have to disagree with you there

That's the whole reason most of us ride bikes: so we can slow down motorists and make them late for things. That's the only joy I find in bike riding, really.

I don't even have an accurate count of how many children have been delivered in the back seats of the cars I kept from getting to the hospital, and I can't even imagine how many people must have lost their jobs because I made them late for work. Just the thought of it keeps me warm on those cold winter rides.

Cycling in a city requires nothing more than a bare amount of common sense and a knowledge of traffic laws. It's safer than driving a car. Please don't encourage people you know to adopt the whole 'cycling is dangerous' nonsense.

And yet there are whole groups of people called LCIs that believe that cycling in traffic takes more than the basic skills. Is the author so wrong?

Are these your basic park riding skills: "You must be able to follow a precise path through potholes while traffic moves past you and makes right-hand turns in front of you. You must stay clear of parked cars whose doors might be opened without warning. You must know how to make a left-hand turn in heavy traffic. You must be constantly aware of traffic." Or are these skills a bit more than any cruiser might already know?

Nearly everyone here knows what a right hook is... try asking your neighbor who owns a bike or two in the garage if he knows what a right hook is, or how to avoid one?

Sure, it isn't hard to learn how to negotiate these things, but really if you expect people to just drop their car keys and get on a bike... the environment in cities has to be quite a bit more bike friendly before we start to see even a 5% uptake... and to get to say 20% of all trips by bike... well I for one would like to at least see some place to park a bike, besides a sign post, at the local grocer.

I don't think so. It just takes time to get some miles under my belt. There's a big difference between knowing your rights, and being confident enough to assert your rights.

I knew I could ride on the streets, I read this message board before I started commuting. However, before I started commuting, I hadn't been on a bike for probably 10 years. Took about 2-3 months of intermittent riding to get my skills back.

Most people I see riding on the sidewalks probably shouldn't be on the roads. The ones I see aren't that steady on a bike and their top speed is probably around 7mph.

Fair enough. Thanks for the reply.

In short, biking to work without a bike path is no fun.

I have loads of fun biking to work when i'm not in a bike path.

I have loads of fun biking to work when i'm not in a bike path.

Yeah yeah we all do... but could that be part of why cyclists are less than 2 % of all commuters here in the US?

Would your grandma or sister enjoy cycling to work without a bike path?

Cycling through traffic doesn't require "super human skills", but it does require a lot of experience. So if you can handle a bicycle quite well, but have never had significant experience riding in traffic, your first few months of riding through traffic will be dangerous.

Getting right hooked and doored is stuff almost every commuter goes through on their way to being experienced. And these can turn into deadly results if you're not lucky.

I am a yellow bellied coward....... I would not ride in a city, not because of my skills, but because of lack of trust in other drivers. I would not parachute, freefall, jump from a bridge, stick my fingers in a light socket, stand in the open in a lightning storm and much much more.......

So coward that I am, I just ride in our retirement community or on a trail in a park......

For those of you who do commute, Bravo....... It keeps the doctors and hospitals in business..........

Most famous last four words in Texas "Hey y'all watch this"

I would say the very 1st statement is sooooooooooooooooooo off in terms of today's kids. Very few kids are riding bikes relative to 20 years ago. The minivan is the transportation choice for 95%.

... Brad

Yeah but Wally World and others are selling bikes to someone... Somewhere I read that Americans own more bikes per capita than anyone else in the world... but most of them are just gathering dust.

I am a yellow bellied coward....... I would not ride in a city, not because of my skills, but because of lack of trust in other drivers. I would not parachute, freefall, jump from a bridge, stick my fingers in a light socket, stand in the open in a lightning storm and much much more.......

So coward that I am, I just ride in our retirement community or on a trail in a park......

For those of you who do commute, Bravo....... It keeps the doctors and hospitals in business..........

Most famous last four words in Texas "Hey y'all watch this"

You're kidding right? Riding on the road is not dangerous. 43000 died in car crashes last year. 700 on bikes. My guess is you are more likely injured on bike paths than on the road. Somebody out there can likely find the stats, but you are likely more in danger on your path, than on the road.

I saw a couple stats, you are 37 times more likely to DIE for every 100 miles on a MOTORCYCLE then a car. And it was every 4,500 miles traveled to an injury on a bike, not a fatality, an injury. Odds look pretty good on a bike. But does that mean we should have separate motorcycle lanes too?

So it isn't just us,it's any other mode of transportation that has to interact with the idiot cager.

I almost daily ride down a 4 lane that is 50 mph. I make sure I can be seen, I signal, I maintain my proper lane and haven't had any issues. And I have been in the burbs on a side street that's 30 mph with plenty of room and nearly been brushed numerous times (in almost all cases a teen driver).

I feel it isn't the environment, it's the idiot behind you!

You're kidding right? Riding on the road is not dangerous. 43000 died in car crashes last year. 700 on bikes. My guess is you are more likely injured on bike paths than on the road. Somebody out there can likely find the stats, but you are likely more in danger on your path, than on the road.

You really are comparing apples to oranges... Ken Kifer did a better comparison using actual miles traveled... and then cycling didn't look quite so good.

So it all depends on what you call "danger."

Scrapped knees are danger?

I would call being broadsided by an SUV much more "danger" than the potential of running over "Fluffy" on some MUP.

And as far as the stats go... let me know when we have enough cyclists on the road to represent say 5% of all trips... until then, that 700 number is a large drop in a relatively dry bucket...


But the bottom line is that to get anywhere near that 5% number... you are going to have to make cycling as friendly as driving...

Cycling is dangerous. The key to cycling safely in traffic is recognizing what the dangers are in order to minimize or avoid them, but acknowledging that cycling is dangerous is hardly "nonsense."

You may regard the following as a matter of semantics, but I don't think cycling is dangerous. What is dangerous is the possibility that we might be hit by a motor vehicle, i.e. an interruption in our cycling.

If we say that cycling is dangerous to non-cyclists or inexperienced cyclists, I think that we are doing the activity a disservice and giving them the wrong idea. Since, in my view, cycling per se is safe, but the environment contains dangers which we can minimise by learning what they are and when and where they are likely to occur, if we describe how to deal with these possiblities, we alter the terms of the argument by re-defining them.

After all, if we say that cycling is dangerous, we automatically put newbies or potential riders off. If we explain where the real risks are and separate them from the pleasures of cycling, I think that we will do better than a blanket statement such as the one you expressed.

After all, if we say that cycling is dangerous, we automatically put newbies or potential riders off. If we explain where the real risks are and separate them from the pleasures of cycling, I think that we will do better than a blanket statement such as the one you expressed.

Cycling is dangerous from the standpoint of being hurt by a motorist. Cycling is much more dangerous than in a vehicle, since there is no protection for the cyclist. Two cars with restraints and air bags travelling at 30mph collide head on. Most likely there will only be minor injuries or none at all. A vehicle hits a cyclist at 30mph head on and most likely the cyclist is dead, paralyzed or at least severly injured.

Quite simple to figure out actually. Accidents involving bicycles have more potential to do major damage than vehicle to vehicle accidents....

For some it would be a "calculated risk"? Who would risk it if they calculated the bodily damage to a direct hit by a car at 50mph? That's not calculating a risk, it's just doing the old "it won't happen to me" syndrome. Denial that it won't happen to you because you are good or because the odds are low, does not make for a logical decision.

For those who do it, if you are happy, do it. For those that do not want to, there's nothing wrong with that either.

Encouraging people to learn to respect cyclists is good. Laws that are hard on drivers who endanger or harm a cyclist are definitely necessary. Formal bicycle defensive driving is good too.

Just telling other cyclists that if they are careful, nothing will happen to them, is bad.......

Life is dangerous. If you want to be truly safe, you lock yourself in a padded bunker capable of withstanding the Apocalypse.

And when comparing car deaths to cyclist deaths, I think that the numbers need to be divided. Number of drivers divided by number of car deaths vs. number of cyclists divided by number of cyclists deaths. I think it would give a much better picture. But then again, you can manipulate statistics all you want. The way I see it, I run the same risk of getting smeared by a Suburban on my bike as I do in my car.

unfortunately, it appears the environment of high speed traffic dictates the lack of cycling participation in this country-

it is in countries like denmark, that understand the psychology of bicycling much better than america, that see participation rates across all age groups and by both sexes.

overcoming fear of a hazardous environment? is this like asking why everyone doesn't skydive or backcountry ski?

There's where we disagree Bek. The environment isn't as hazardous in reality as it is in perception.
Let's use your last accident as an example...was it caused by traffic, by yourself, or by some factor unrelated to either?

You may be to polite to say it outright. I am not. These people are cowards. Yellow-bellied cowards. Scared of their own shadows.

Not cowards, they have just bought into a perception that has been drilled into their heads over and over again. When I was a kid in the early 70s I remember my great-aunts calling my mother in a panic because they spotted me riding down their quiet residential street...on the street, rather than the sidewalk. The perception of danger has always been there...I bet even before motor vehicles even existed in significant numbers.

Cycling is dangerous. The key to cycling safely in traffic is recognizing what the dangers are in order to minimize or avoid them, but acknowledging that cycling is dangerous is hardly "nonsense."

Incorrect. Cycling is not dangerous...people are dangerous...no matter what endeavor they are engaged in.

I am a yellow bellied coward....... I would not ride in a city, not because of my skills, but because of lack of trust in other drivers. I would not parachute, freefall, jump from a bridge, stick my fingers in a light socket, stand in the open in a lightning storm and much much more.......

So coward that I am, I just ride in our retirement community or on a trail in a park......

For those of you who do commute, Bravo....... It keeps the doctors and hospitals in business..........

Most famous last four words in Texas "Hey y'all watch this"

I've been commuting in traffic for over 30 years, since I was 13, and riding on the streets since I was 5. I have never been to a hospital for a bike-related injury.

This is the key difference between some of us, I believe. Those of us who grew up riding in traffic and continued to ride through adulthood have never had a reason to buy into the perception of danger, just like someone who grew up in the outdoors is not afraid of critters, weather and such, as most city-raised folk tend to grow to be. Seriously, if you can drive a car in traffic, you can ride a bike in traffic, it's just a matter of understanding the limitations of your vehicle. ;)