Clydesdales/Athenas (200+ lb / 91+ kg) - Handling Riding With Slower Riders

(for lack of a better title, and maybe way to put this, too, since group riding is another thing I have almost zero experience in)...

Does anyone have any advice for dealing with someone that is slower than you in riding in a group? I've tended to just keep the bike in the granny gear the whole time and ride that way, but I still notice that I can get on the verge of dropping the slower ones if I'm in the lead position, or doing a lot of spin/brake/spin/brake if I'm not. (And not trying to be prideful, I know I would probably be dropped very easily in a more skilled/consistent set of riders.)

So is there something else that could be done that would accomplish a good workout, besides lowering the gear efficiency? Any other tips or good advice on dealing with this and similar group situations (like riders insisting on unsafe practices in traffic)?

Low gear spin.....treat it as an opportunity to smooth out your spinning technique. ;)

Low gear spin.....treat it as an opportunity to smooth out your spinning technique. ;)

That's what I'm already doing, but I'm still a bit fast (the dropping thing can be addressed easy if I watch it, what I'm really worried of is the spin/brake routine getting into the wheel of the bike ahead of me).

Maybe to clarify what I'm asking: I find a good number of pages on the practical/technical aspects of group riding, but I'm looking in my question more for tips on the social aspects of it.

(for lack of a better title, and maybe way to put this, too, since group riding is another thing I have almost zero experience in)...

Does anyone have any advice for dealing with someone that is slower than you in riding in a group? I've tended to just keep the bike in the granny gear the whole time and ride that way, but I still notice that I can get on the verge of dropping the slower ones if I'm in the lead position, or doing a lot of spin/brake/spin/brake if I'm not. (And not trying to be prideful, I know I would probably be dropped very easily in a more skilled/consistent set of riders.)

So is there something else that could be done that would accomplish a good workout, besides lowering the gear efficiency? Any other tips or good advice on dealing with this and similar group situations (like riders insisting on unsafe practices in traffic)?

Ride Slow in your highest gear.

I ride with a group 3 to 9 riders. We have one guy ,72 y/o that gets way ahead of us, U-turns comes back the other side. U-turns , passes us about five times on our 70 to 80 miles rides.
He also rides around parking lots to wait for us to get up with him. He keeps on the move.
http://i256.photobucket.com/albums/hh187/10wheels/TheRace.jpg

Well, the social aspect. Take the lead and set the pace a HAIR faster than they are used to for longer and longer intervals. Make it just enough that they improve but not so much that they consciously notice the change. ;) Encourage and never let them know that they are slowing you down, and if they figure it out anyway, just tell them that as they develop as a rider, they will maybe even become a real challenge at some point.....

That's what I'm already doing, but I'm still a bit fast (the dropping thing can be addressed easy if I watch it, what I'm really worried of is the spin/brake routine getting into the wheel of the bike ahead of me).

Maybe to clarify what I'm asking: I find a good number of pages on the practical/technical aspects of group riding, but I'm looking in my question more for tips on the social aspects of it.

That's what I'm already doing, but I'm still a bit fast (the dropping thing can be addressed easy if I watch it, what I'm really worried of is the spin/brake routine getting into the wheel of the bike ahead of me).

Maybe to clarify what I'm asking: I find a good number of pages on the practical/technical aspects of group riding, but I'm looking in my question more for tips on the social aspects of it.

I ride a Fast 7.5 miles before joining the group. Then ride another 7.5 miles after the group ride.

You seem to be asking a lot of vague questions with very little information.

Slower riders - It's for them. If you want a training ride, do it solo or find a different group. It might be acceptable to drop off the back and go hard to catch up, but be sure this is not annoying them.

Leading slower riders - Never do this without a good helmet/glasses mirror. You need to see them every 10 seconds or so. Try to get the slowest one right behind you and watch the expression on his/her face. It should be 'fighting', not 'frustration'. You can get very good at keeping a rider right at their limit for long periods of time.

Following slower riders - Do not pedal-coast. You should be able to moderate your speed to sit within a foot of the wheel in front as long as they are riding smoothly. I the rider in front of you is doing a pedal-coast thing, drop back far enough so that you can ride smooth without overtaking them in their 'coast phase'. If it's a weight difference on the down hill, you can pull out into the wind a bit or feather your brakes and keep pedalling.

Group riding - IMO, the biggest mistake riders make when joining a group is to insist on doing what they think is correct. Do what that group does or don't ride with them. You can nicely discuss it before or after, but it's their ride. Examples are rolling through stop signs or not going single file for every car that passes. Do not stop in a group that expects everyone to roll through. Do not yell "car back" seven times - each time louder.

Helping?

TF

So is there something else that could be done that would accomplish a good workout, besides lowering the gear efficiency? Any other tips or good advice on dealing with this and similar group situations (like riders insisting on unsafe practices in traffic)?

I have a single speed mtb and a single speed / fixie road machine. These are great machines on their own merit; however, I will use them with slower riders to close the gap in our performance.

... Brad

Just slow down. If you want a workout, go on a pre or post ride after the group ride. By far the most discouraging thing for someone is to ride with someone who is constantly dropping them on a "group" ride.

Life's too short to try to rush all the time. Take time to enjoy company and foster goodwill.

Pretty much +1 to what everybody has already said.

Anecdotal story:
My 12-year old began riding with me about a 12-18 months ago. He couldn't keep up, but I expected that: I was a racer/century guy and he was a 12-year old noob. So, I would only ride with him on my rest/recovery days as he couldn't handle 40+ miles at (my) threshold. I would ride at 12mph, spinning in an easy gear. He could keep up with that except on hills. While doing this, I taught him how to draft, ride in pacelines, group etiquette, etc... It was great. On hills, I told him I would sprint up them occasionally and wait for him at the top. I said not to take it personally or get depressed about it. So that's what we did.

Fast forward to Tuesday of this week: He & I were practicing speedwork by running a brief 2-man TT. We were averaging 25mph and hit 27 at one point, with him contributing in the pulls!! Two Sundays ago, he entered--and did well in--a Cat 5 race for adults. He'll be racing the National criterium championships for his age group in a couple weeks.

Keep at it with your friend. They'll improve, even if it does take a year or two. :D

Bdinger and Turboturtle have it right.
I used to lead beginning rides, which was a 15 mile ride through areas of our town. We would average about 10 miles per hour, but the pace was to be whatever the slowest rider could easily maintain.
It was all about getting new people involved in the sport, helping them with basic technique, and making them feel good about what they accomplished by riding farther than they could have ever imagined.

I did these rides once a month, and every month I'd have riders show that were used to averaging 20 mph. They would always say "We'll ride with the group", but by the 3rd mile they were way ahead.
I finally would chase off anyone that showed up for the ride that wasn't a beginner.

This is my recommendations based on those rides. If you are the faster rider, finish last. Don't fly up the hill and wait. That just shows the others how slow they are and points out how much they are holding everyone up. Use the group ride as a chance to give back to cycling. Be social, helpful, and fun.

The payback: I've had people that started out on my beginning ride that became Cat 2's, another became our cycling club president, and several used that ride as a starting point to a life of cycling.

Pretty much +1 to what everybody has already said.

Anecdotal story:
My 12-year old began riding with me...

While doing this, I taught him how to draft, ride in pacelines, group etiquette, etc... It was great. On hills, I told him I would sprint up them occasionally and wait for him at the top. I said not to take it personally or get depressed about it. So that's what we did.

Your son is incredibly lucky to have a parent interested in sport and exercise passing down wisdom. He's got a huge head start on this whole bike thing compared to many of us discovering it in adulthood! Look out -- before you know it he'll be whuppin' you, dad.

Low gear spin.....treat it as an opportunity to smooth out your spinning technique. ;)

That's exactly what I do when I ride with my wife.

Ok - here I am the slow one.... So when I have been in a group - I have had my own coach. So the leader would have a co-leader and he and I would ride. we may even cut off a 2 mile hill. They made me feel like they loved to help the newcomer and have made me feel welcome.

One even put this hand on my back and helped me up the hill (these are amatuer racers... quite in shape and great riders).. Anyway - other times - there's a rider in the gorup - or several that always make it a point to ride form the front to me and ride with me a bit.

Lately I try and get the route map and preare the group that I may be on my own and I will be ok with that.

So all of you guys out there helping us - THANK YOU. Next week I am off to ride in a Century (i am gonna do 50) and one of the guys from a group ride has offered to ride with me at my pace and he can ride fast! He says he is interested in my company because he rides every day - and can take it easy with newbies on the weekend. So THANK YOU to all of you leading us slow pokes.

Riding my Worksman Front-Loading tricycle, I go about 8-10 miles per hour maximum, and can comfortably go slower. Consider that as a possibility. Or a 29" or 36" unicycle. The tricycle takes up a lane pretty much, so one disadvantage there.

I've pondered building a "Ton Bike". Maybe you should try that.

I ride with a group where I'm a little faster than average. If I go out and ride by myself the day of or before the ride I end up falling right in the middle. Last week I did a fast for me metric the day before. It was work keeping up the next day.

There are a lot of things that can be done, depending on the skills of the other riders.

1.) Practice spinning technique.
2.) Ride ahead a little bit and tell the others you will wait for them. Be specific, and don't make it a great distance away.
3.) Sprint ahead, then turn around and come back.
4. ) Practice holding a line at slow speeds.
5. ) Treat this as a recovery ride.
6. ) Bring a camera and take photos

There are a lot of things that can be done, depending on the skills of the other riders.

1.) Practice spinning technique.
2.) Ride ahead a little bit and tell the others you will wait for them. Be specific, and don't make it a great distance away.
3.) Sprint ahead, then turn around and come back.
4. ) Practice holding a line at slow speeds.
5. ) Treat this as a recovery ride.
6. ) Bring a camera and take photos

2.) Do not ride ahead. Go off the back if anything and watch for the reaction of the other riders.
3.) Again, do not go off the front.

TF

2.) Do not ride ahead. Go off the back if anything and watch for the reaction of the other riders.
3.) Again, do not go off the front.

TF

Sorry, I've been with faster riders who have done these, and the world didn't end. There's nothing wrong with "going off the front" with a slower rider, or slower riders.

If someone is riding slower than me they probably need an ambulance...........:eek:

Pretty much +1 to what everybody has already said.

Anecdotal story:
My 12-year old began riding with me about a 12-18 months ago. He couldn't keep up, but I expected that: I was a racer/century guy and he was a 12-year old noob.

I try to do a road ride on the weekend with my 10 year old son. He rides a rockhopper and we do 12-14 mph for about 10 miles or so. If the ride is much longer the speed slows way down. Like you I am trying to teach him about drafting, riding smoothly, etc. During the week I like to hop on my POS mountain bike and hit the trails with him. We don't go blazing fast but I figure elevating my heart rate for an hour or so and spending some quality time with my son is much better than sitting inside being a couch potato. Now all I need to do is teach him to ride a bit slower so we can drag Mrs Ruckin out on the weekend ride :)

Sorry, I've been with faster riders who have done these, and the world didn't end. There's nothing wrong with "going off the front" with a slower rider, or slower riders.

I think you have missed the audience for this thread. - TF

Ruckin: i'm actually impressed that he's 10 and can hold a 12-14 mph pace for 10 miles, on a rockhopper no less.

To the OP, when i have done real group rides (haven' in a few years) but our group had a similar problem, some people had to tone down the pace a bit too much for their comfort. So we made a b+ group, the b and b+ groups had the same ride schedule but a different ride leader. If you're in a d group or something it might be a little tough to stay in that group and go the pace you want. But if you're the only one who is holding back in the group then it isn't likely that that solution would work for you.
When i helped out with the d groups i would take the "scenic route" to get to the start of the ride. For instance if it was going to be a 10 mile ride at 9-11 mph, and the start was 10 miles away, i would map a route that made it 25 or so miles for me to get there, then do the 10 mile ride and think of it as a "break time" then ride the 25 miles back. Turned it into a 60 mile "training ride" with a 10 mile spinning break in the middle. That worked well for me.

A couple of friends of mine just got into riding, so when i go with them i also need to bring the pace way down. But this isn't a "group ride" so i'm not going to say "hey lets split into 2 groups," since that defeats the purpose of the ride. So what i do for this is i schedule the rest of the week and use this "group ride" as my recovery day (or one of my recovery days, depending on the week) then i don't mind the spin-coast-spin-coast thing because i'm just happy to be on the bike at all since generally i won't get on one on recovery days except for my commute/errands.

But basically it depends on what you mean by "group ride" like is it a club? or a group of your buddies? also are there others in the group that are also forced to slow down like you? or are you the only one?
Also if it is a club ride you can talk to some of the other people in the club in higher groups and see if one or a few other riders are willing to rotate leading the "slow" group. If you do that, the leaders gain by not feeling like they're slowed down all the time since they only have to do it occasionally, and the group gains from learning diferent things from multiple leaders instead of a one leader knowledge base.

Just my $.02

kyle

I try to do a road ride on the weekend with my 10 year old son. He rides a rockhopper and we do 12-14 mph for about 10 miles or so. If the ride is much longer the speed slows way down. Like you I am trying to teach him about drafting, riding smoothly, etc. During the week I like to hop on my POS mountain bike and hit the trails with him. We don't go blazing fast but I figure elevating my heart rate for an hour or so and spending some quality time with my son is much better than sitting inside being a couch potato. Now all I need to do is teach him to ride a bit slower so we can drag Mrs Ruckin out on the weekend ride :)

Excellent. I'd love to get the Mrs. going too, but I have to set aside some time (and $$$) to find a bike that will fit her comfortably. Mtb's won't do as it's all pavement around here, and she cringes at the mere thought of a roadie handlebar (curved). But, I want her to try one anyway because of the numerous hand positions, I just have to set aside the time to go to a couple shops.

Throw on some slicks. ;) Then you have a good robust bike that's better than a hybrid, and fun on pavement. ;)

Throw a set of bar ends angled like hoods and you have multiple hand positions as well. That way, once you HAVE the bike, it's much easier to get the wife riding than if you don't. ;) Worked out that way for us......

If you want a simple bike for short rides, grab her a cruiser, maybe as am alternative. Either can serve as a gateway, and once hooked, you can get her a more advanced riders bike. ;)

Excellent. I'd love to get the Mrs. going too, but I have to set aside some time (and $$$) to find a bike that will fit her comfortably. Mtb's won't do as it's all pavement around here, and she cringes at the mere thought of a roadie handlebar (curved). But, I want her to try one anyway because of the numerous hand positions, I just have to set aside the time to go to a couple shops.

Excellent. I'd love to get the Mrs. going too, but I have to set aside some time (and $$$) to find a bike that will fit her comfortably. Mtb's won't do as it's all pavement around here, and she cringes at the mere thought of a roadie handlebar (curved). But, I want her to try one anyway because of the numerous hand positions, I just have to set aside the time to go to a couple shops.

I have already addressed the bike issue... I got a coupon at REI and bought her the last one of "last years model" novara mumble mumble mumble with an internal hub. She rode it a few times then had some health issues the prevented her from riding. I may just toss all the bikes in the truck, throw some tools in my pack (for adjustments etc) and say something like "Last one to the truck is a rotten egg" and all go for a ride :)

Sorry, I had forgotten about the club group rides vs. just riding with a couple of other people/friends... I have not done a proper club ride in more than 20 years :)

I'm going ot go out on a limb here and presume we're talking about riders in a club.
As someone who has spent the last 3 seasons leading the B (aka slow) group on the morning (retired so you have an idea of how slow) group.
You're going to need to find a pace that works..not only for them but for you.
I try to maintain a 13mph pace (more like 11 if there's a head wind)and keep the ride under 25 miles.
Get a decent rider to pull sweep (shepherd the group like a border collie..keep em moving at the back)
Understand that no matter what you do,you will never please everyone.
(God only knows I encountered that situation this morning..and I wasn't even the leader!)
Plan out the ride..Try and keep it a steady pace (ie:country or suburbs vs city)rather than stop and go and make the ride interesting (old homes, places of interest, a coffee stop at some favorite place)

I think you have missed the audience for this thread. - TF

No, not at all. The OP said "slower", not "novice." There is a difference.