Foo - Ah, the Tesla experience...well sorta

So a friend and I wandered over to the local Tesla dealer, which is just a couple of miles from my place, to check out the cars that are just starting to be delivered. If only I had an extra $100K lying around. For those not familiar with the Tesla, it's an electric car built into a modified Lotus Elise chassis, but with an all carbon fiber body. It has supercar acceleration (0-60 mph in less than four seconds) because of a strong motor and light weight, a claimed range of 227 miles and 3.5 hour charging cycle. I had never sat in an Elise, and holy moly, it is very low, with a very wide door sill and a cramped cockpit. It is not easy to get in and out of, the seats are thin, and the ergonomics are marginal. It's still a dedicated sports car.

Here's a little picture tour.

There was only one car in the showroom, plus a full-size wood model and an empty shell probably from a prototype.

http://i47.photobucket.com/albums/f155/tacksharp/Tesla/Tesla_2692_side.jpg

http://i47.photobucket.com/albums/f155/tacksharp/Tesla/Tesla_2685_back.jpg

http://i47.photobucket.com/albums/f155/tacksharp/Tesla/Tesla_2687_roll_bar.jpg

Under the bonnet is a radiator for cooling the 6,831 Li ion batteries. In the back is a small trunk, but we were unable to see the motor.

http://i47.photobucket.com/albums/f155/tacksharp/Tesla/Tesla_2653_bonnet.jpg

http://i47.photobucket.com/albums/f155/tacksharp/Tesla/Tesla_2657_boot.jpg

The charging socket has a cool light.

http://i47.photobucket.com/albums/f155/tacksharp/Tesla/Tesla_2658_charge_socket.jpg

The view from the driver seat. The steering wheel was locked so I couldn't get a better picture.

http://i47.photobucket.com/albums/f155/tacksharp/Tesla/Tesla_2661_driver_seat.jpg

There's no point having a tach on a car with one gear. But I understand now why they want the two-speed tranny they have been struggling to have developed: the torque curve is 100% from 0 to 6K rpm, then trails off in a linear fashion to the 13K redline. They need a second gear to reach the target top speed of 125 mph.

http://i47.photobucket.com/albums/f155/tacksharp/Tesla/Tesla_2659_tach.jpg

Here are various screens from the small computer display, which is to the left of the steering wheel.

http://i47.photobucket.com/albums/f155/tacksharp/Tesla/Tesla_2665_computer.jpg

The center console has controls for ventilation, seat heater, and an override button for the traction control. The stick has three positions, Reverse, Neutral, and Drive.

http://i47.photobucket.com/albums/f155/tacksharp/Tesla/Tesla_2677_console.jpg

A few more shots of the showroom.

http://i47.photobucket.com/albums/f155/tacksharp/Tesla/Tesla_2708_showroom.jpg

http://i47.photobucket.com/albums/f155/tacksharp/Tesla/Tesla_2699_red_room.jpg

On the wall was an example of the extruded aluminum, resin-bonded chassis.

http://i47.photobucket.com/albums/f155/tacksharp/Tesla/Tesla_2715_chassis.jpg

There were also some technical displays.

http://i47.photobucket.com/albums/f155/tacksharp/Tesla/Tesla_2718_technology.jpg

The service area had six production Teslas being prepped for delivery, three black ones, plus one each red, yellow and silver. An NY Times article published on Saturday said the company has delivered four cars, and Larry and Sergey from Google are scheduled to get cars seven and eight, so perhaps you see their cars here.

http://i47.photobucket.com/albums/f155/tacksharp/Tesla/Tesla_2703_service.jpg

Oh well pfft. Lemme go get my purse.......

Those are pretty sweet. I'd love to own one, but I think I'm gonna hold out for the Volt...

Wow - and I thought old 911's were spartan inside. Bonafide sportscar or not, I'd need a bit more creature comfort than that for $100k.

That's my dream car now.
Beauty.

It's a really expensive roadster, but it's more like a really cheap Ferrari. Those things perform. Now, can they make another car that isn't so fast but will do 150 miles on a charge and cost under 30k? THAT would be something.

http://i47.photobucket.com/albums/f155/tacksharp/Tesla/Tesla_2677_console.jpg

I like carbon fiber details, but that's actually kind of cheap looking.

Anyway, I'd hit it (with 110 VAC).

Just had a look last night at this website:

http://www.lightningcarcompany.co.uk/

Sweeeet...

FAIL!

I was looking forward to seeing you dabbling with some of Nikolai's experiments. :(

FAIL!

I was looking forward to seeing you dabbling with some of Nikolai's experiments. :(

And I was hoping for some rocks songs.

Nice car though.

Awesome, thanks very much for posting. Have either your friend or you tried to ask for a test drive?


So a friend and I wandered over to the local Tesla dealer, which is just a couple of miles from my place, to check out the cars that are just starting to be delivered. If only I had an extra $100K lying around. For those not familiar with the Tesla, it's an electric car built into a modified Lotus Elise chassis, but with an all carbon fiber body. It has supercar acceleration (0-60 mph in less than four seconds) because of a strong motor and light weight, a claimed range of 227 miles and 3.5 hour charging cycle. I had never sat in an Elise, and holy moly, it is very low, with a very wide door sill and a cramped cockpit. It is not easy to get in and out of, the seats are thin, and the ergonomics are marginal. It's still a dedicated sports car.

Here's a little picture tour.

There was only one car in the showroom, plus a full-size wood model and an empty shell probably from a prototype.

[.IMG]http://i47.photobucket.com/albums/f155/tacksharp/Tesla/Tesla_2692_side.jpg[/IMG]

[.IMG]http://i47.photobucket.com/albums/f155/tacksharp/Tesla/Tesla_2685_back.jpg[/IMG]

[.IMG]http://i47.photobucket.com/albums/f155/tacksharp/Tesla/Tesla_2687_roll_bar.jpg[/IMG]

Under the bonnet is a radiator for cooling the 6,831 Li ion batteries. In the back is a small trunk, but we were unable to see the motor.

[.IMG]http://i47.photobucket.com/albums/f155/tacksharp/Tesla/Tesla_2653_bonnet.jpg[/IMG]

[.IMG]http://i47.photobucket.com/albums/f155/tacksharp/Tesla/Tesla_2657_boot.jpg[/IMG]

The charging socket has a cool light.

[.IMG]http://i47.photobucket.com/albums/f155/tacksharp/Tesla/Tesla_2658_charge_socket.jpg[/IMG]

The view from the driver seat. The steering wheel was locked so I couldn't get a better picture.

[.IMG]http://i47.photobucket.com/albums/f155/tacksharp/Tesla/Tesla_2661_driver_seat.jpg[/IMG]

There's no point having a tach on a car with one gear. But I understand now why they want the two-speed tranny they have been struggling to have developed: the torque curve is 100% from 0 to 6K rpm, then trails off in a linear fashion to the 13K redline. They need a second gear to reach the target top speed of 125 mph.

[.IMG]http://i47.photobucket.com/albums/f155/tacksharp/Tesla/Tesla_2659_tach.jpg[/IMG]

Here are various screens from the small computer display, which is to the left of the steering wheel.

[.IMG]http://i47.photobucket.com/albums/f155/tacksharp/Tesla/Tesla_2665_computer.jpg[/IMG]

The center console has controls for ventilation, seat heater, and an override button for the traction control. The stick has three positions, Reverse, Neutral, and Drive.

[.IMG]http://i47.photobucket.com/albums/f155/tacksharp/Tesla/Tesla_2677_console.jpg[/IMG]

It's a really expensive roadster, but it's more like a really cheap Ferrari. Those things perform. Now, can they make another car that isn't so fast but will do 150 miles on a charge and cost under 30k? THAT would be something.

They're working on a sedan. Doubt it would be sub 30K but if they got it under $45 with 0-60 in 5.5s it might be a really BMW killer, especially when you consider that electric motor have huge low end torque. That would make it a great car for zipping around town or curvy country roads.

I like the fact that the showroom appears to be a high tech yert.

"it is very low, with a very wide door sill and a cramped cockpit. It is not easy to get in and out of, the seats are thin, and the ergonomics are marginal."

^^^A description of just about every sports car Ive ever been in.^^^ LOL! Can anyone tell me if a carbon body is safe in a crash? Especially at the high speed the vehicle claims? I know its been used in aircrafts for years but Ive never seen a carbon skinned aircraft crash into another one (at higher speeds) while on the ground. ;) I have a carbon bike but its never been in a crash, and the ones (like mine) Ive seen that have crash (hard) have failed. But mostly due to over weight riders.

"it is very low, with a very wide door sill and a cramped cockpit. It is not easy to get in and out of, the seats are thin, and the ergonomics are marginal."

^^^A description of just about every sports car Ive ever been in.^^^ LOL! Can anyone tell me if a carbon body is safe in a crash? Especially at the high speed the vehicle claims? I know its been used in aircrafts for years but Ive never seen a carbon skinned aircraft crash into another one (at higher speeds) while on the ground. ;)

Formula one cars are mostly CF these days and they seem to survive 200kph+ crashes with the driver pod intact.

Formula one cars are mostly CF these days and they seem to survive 200kph+ crashes with the driver pod intact.

Pod is intact yes, but in a serious crash, the pod is a complete write off. Tubs involved in lesser incidents can have new suspension pieces bolted on in most cases.

Not long ago, some movie actor ran an Enzo into a concrete barrier at some event being help for publicity. The Enzo suffered front end damage, but was a complete write off as I recall, due to the nature of composite manufacturing.

http://youtube.com/watch?v=ElxB3sucIMc

ouch...

Formula one cars are mostly CF these days and they seem to survive 200kph+ crashes with the driver pod intact.

are the pods carbon? I thought they were titanium? like some aircraft pods?

Pod is intact yes, but in a serious crash, the pod is a complete write off. Tubs involved in lesser incidents can have new suspension pieces bolted on in most cases.

Not long ago, some movie actor ran an Enzo into a concrete barrier at some event being help for publicity. The Enzo suffered front end damage, but was a complete write off as I recall, due to the nature of composite manufacturing.

Isn't that also true of most modern crumplezone cars, whetever the material used? That is, on impact the surrounding shell/underlying structure is sacrficed to protect the occupants with, in theory, the main safety box/perimeter staying generally the same shape.


are the pods carbon? I thought they were titanium? like some aircraft pods?

Good question. I'd read/heard somewhere that they're mostly CF. Anyone have a discovery channel "how F1 cars are made" video please?

I believe that the cockpits are mostly CF or other high tech composite now. Not sure of this.

I wonder what is/was easier, paying for a new tub in 2008 or trying to straighten a Tipo 61 birdcage chassis after a hard impact?

http://www.maserati.org.au/gallery/MASERATI/RACE_Cars/Tipo61_gallery.html

http://www.maserati-alfieri.co.uk/paninia/panini-121a.jpg

I wonder what is/was easier, paying for a new tub in 2008 or trying to straighten a Tipo 61 birdcage chassis after a hard impact?

http://www.maserati.org.au/gallery/MASERATI/RACE_Cars/Tipo61_gallery.html

[.IMG]http://www.maserati-alfieri.co.uk/paninia/panini-121a.jpg[/IMG]

I believe that's what's known in the trade as "chasing your tail" :roflmao2:

Maserati, one of the biggest POS ever built! (My humble opinion)

I cant seem to find anything on the type of material used for the cockpits? I do know that some those of super fast speed boats used for racing use fighterplane cockpits. I saw an accident once that clearly stated that the drivers life was saved by the fighter plane cockpit he just had installed. :thumb:

The chassis of open wheel cars are mostly carbon fiber with aluminum. The nose cones are designed to crumple and absorb energy. The survival cell must of course stay intact.

http://www.f1technical.net/articles/63


Carbon fiber is also trusted in other critical applications where explosive forces must be contained:

http://images.thetruthaboutcars.com/2006/06/toilet20.jpg

I cant seem to find anything on the type of material used for the cockpits? I do know that some those of super fast speed boats used for racing use fighterplane cockpits. I saw an accident once that clearly stated that the drivers life was saved by the fighter plane cockpit he just had installed. :thumb:

That is true, on the drag boat scene. However in F1 racing, the tub is a stressed member of the chassis. It has to have specialized, perfectly located attachememt points for the front suspension and the engine. I do not think an off the shelf, surplus fighter cockpit would suffice.

The Scuderia Ferrari site simply lists CF as one of the components of the tub.

My dad actually builds formula cars. F1, Indy, CHAMP, and many other formula cars full carbon fiber chassis. There is no other material used in construction of the chassis. Suspension, engine, and electrics are various materials, but CF is the only thing used for the chassis.

I think the Tesla is a great proof of concept.

Now, someone needs to get Tesla Motors, Chevy, Aptera, and all the electric car makers together to make a fast charge plug standard that is extremely idiot resistant. It needs to be able to keep Joe Sixpack who has peed his pants from too much Bud from electrocuting himself, or little Timmy who just discovered the pretty sparks when he stuffs a fork in an electrical outlet from becoming a crispy critter when he tries to short a 3 or 4 phase circuit.

My dad actually builds formula cars. F1, Indy, CHAMP, and many other formula cars full carbon fiber chassis. There is no other material used in construction of the chassis. Suspension, engine, and electrics are various materials, but CF is the only thing used for the chassis.

Who does he work for? That is very cool.

I like carbon fiber details, but that's actually kind of cheap looking. Anyway, I'd hit it (with 110 VAC).

I agree, but I think the Lotus isn't the most refined vehicle anyways. You don't notice the cheesiness when you're sitting in the seat.

Actually you need to hit it with a 220 V 70 amp circuit to charge it in 3.5 hours. A standard 110 V 15 amp circuit would take 30 hours to charge.



Awesome, thanks very much for posting. Have either your friend or you tried to ask for a test drive?

When we were in the showroom, a Tesla guy was telling a lady that she doesn't have to put down a $5,000 deposit for a test drive (which is what I thought too); I think you just need to convnce them that you are seriously considering buying one and you can arrange a test drive. Neither my friend nor I are good BSers so we didn't even try.



They're working on a sedan. Doubt it would be sub 30K but if they got it under $45 with 0-60 in 5.5s it might be a really BMW killer...

Tesla announced plans for a $60K, 225-mile range sedan, with a running prototype ready by year end. I think here is where things get really difficult for Tesla. They had a brilliant first idea, a very high performance car based on an existing chassis that could command a high price without expectation of high refinement. But if they are going to build a sedan, expectations are going to be much higher for a refined vehicle and I don't see how they can do it. I don't see a major car company working with them. I think Tesla is the first production car using lithiium ion batteries, but everyone else is already working on that. BMW announced plans for an electric Mini. I think when we see this Tesla sedan we will have an idea if Tesla has a future.

He's actually a faculty adviser for college formula team.

My dad actually builds formula cars. F1, Indy, CHAMP, and many other formula cars full carbon fiber chassis. There is no other material used in construction of the chassis. Suspension, engine, and electrics are various materials, but CF is the only thing used for the chassis.

The F1 tech article I linked to above says the tub also incorporates aluminum:

"The number of layers in the tub differs from area to area, but more stressed parts of the car have more , but the average number is about 12 layers. About half way between these layers there is a layer of aluminium honeycomb that further adds to the strength."


This article on the Caparo also mentions CF and aluminum tub design:

http://jalopnik.com/cars/safety/caparo-t1-adopts-f1-style-crumple-zone-333457.php

I think the Tesla is a great proof of concept.

Now, someone needs to get Tesla Motors, Chevy, Aptera, and all the electric car makers together to make a fast charge plug standard that is extremely idiot resistant. It needs to be able to keep Joe Sixpack who has peed his pants from too much Bud from electrocuting himself, or little Timmy who just discovered the pretty sparks when he stuffs a fork in an electrical outlet from becoming a crispy critter when he tries to short a 3 or 4 phase circuit.

Rumor has it a UK company has done it (claimed 10min to full charge). Downside is that their super duper EV is a paltry GBP120,000.00 :eek:

http://www.lightningcarcompany.co.uk/

Edit: charging time

...When we were in the showroom, a Tesla guy was telling a lady that she doesn't have to put down a $5,000 deposit for a test drive (which is what I thought too); I think you just need to convnce them that you are seriously considering buying one and you can arrange a test drive. Neither my friend nor I are good BSers so we didn't even try...

Ok, I was hoping you had. You could always try picketting Google's HQ parking lot :lol:

...Tesla announced plans for a $60K, 225-mile range sedan, with a running prototype ready by year end. I think here is where things get really difficult for Tesla. They had a brilliant first idea, a very high performance car based on an existing chassis that could command a high price without expectation of high refinement. But if they are going to build a sedan, expectations are going to be much higher for a refined vehicle and I don't see how they can do it. I don't see a major car company working with them. I think Tesla is the first production car using lithiium ion batteries, but everyone else is already working on that. BMW announced plans for an electric Mini. I think when we see this Tesla sedan we will have an idea if Tesla has a future.

http://www.smithelectricvehicles.com/

Currently used as fleet vehicles for various big companies, e.g., TNT courier. Apparently, they're also used in NYC as fleet delivery vehicles.

I'm 5'5" , 135lbs and needed a "strategy" to get in and out of the lotus elise. I saw another guy almost get stuck inside :lol:

Rumor has it a UK company has done it (claimed 10min to full charge). Downside is that their super duper EV is a paltry GBP120,000.00 :eek:

http://www.lightningcarcompany.co.uk/

Edit: charging time

Thanks for the link. I went a couple pages in their website, found a link to this:

http://www.phoenixmotorcars.com/

An electric SUV, and an electric pickup. Rock on.

Thanks for the link...

Likewise, not sure I'd buy the truck though. First choice would be a Chev. El Camino EV conversion and second a standard Toyota hilux.

http://blog.wired.com/cars/2008/07/worlds-first-fo.html