Advocacy & Safety - haven't logged in for over a year. This is why

I stopped commuting to work over a year ago. In fact I haven't rode a bike at all in the last year. Those of you that have been around for a while might remember me. Used to post multiple times daily. commuted for 3 years. It was my livelyhood.

Well, I stopped because Jacksonville Florida is the worst place in the country to ride a bike. The reason is the drivers. Jacksonville has developed such a hate for cyclists, that it just isn't safe to ride. I miss it so much.

Please have a seat, get your favorite alcoholic beverage, and relax. Once your head is clear and you are calm, check out the link I am about to give you. It talks about a 52 year old cyclist that was killed here in Jacksonville. It is a forum of sorts.... Be prepared. The comments these people have about it will make you sick to your stomach. This isn't some freak bike hater forum. This is our local news papers web site that allows comments about news stories.

If you ever do a tour thru florida, Avoid Jacksonville.

http://news.jacksonville.com/justin/2008/07/24/bicyclist-seriously-injured-in-collision-with-truck/

Just some of the comments....wow....lets be careful out there!



"bicycles do not have tags on them. they do not have insurance on them. they do not have lights or turn signals on them.If you take a car onto the hiway without these items,you will get a ticket or even arrested. So don’t tell me that bicycles have as much right on the road as a car does."

"Anyone who rides in today’s traffic has apple sauce for brains. Plus what do these cyclists think they are doing, riding for a yellow jersey or something. Get a better hobbie. The cyclist uniform looks fruity especially in Mandarin on San Jose Blvd and Northern St Johns county along Julington creek plantation area(Fruit Cove?).. They don’t understand the risk vs. 5000 lb vehicles. Lots of better ways to stay in shape safely. Your life is irreplaceable, and do you really want your wife spending your hard earned dough on some wimpy con artist second husband. You know he’s marrying her for the cash dude. Not her looks or lovely disposition. Heck you know she is’nt what she was when you first marrried and before the kids."

"Yes we have lots of rights in this country. Most good but some can get you killed if you don’t use your brain and consider the risks. I suggest you ride on quiet roads and sidewalks. Stay off the main roads or risk the right to die at yours or other choosing."

"I’m glad that the biker involved was well-to-do; his estate will be able to pay for the damages to the truck resulting from his violating the right of way (ignoring the red light). I was almost hit yesterday by a cyclist speeding on a sidewalk. I agree that they should be on the sidewalk rather than in traffic; but they need to remember that we are looking for pedestrians moving at walking speed.
Bicycles need to be outlawed, along with cars that can exceed the speed limit. Put everyone into golf carts."

"Bike lanes take up very valuable driving lanes. We used to have two lanes each way through San Marco. Now we have one lane each way and an absolutely empty bike lane. The highest and best use of the roads is for vehicles. If the bikes stay out of my way then I’ll stay out of theirs.
The problem is they ride on San Jose, Beauclerc, Scott Mill and Mandarin Road in packs and actually out into the road by many feet. These pack bicyclists are complete jerks.
We don’t need more bike lanes, this is not a third world country or socialist Europe. This is the largest area wise city in the continental US. Cars are king in Jacksonville and always will be. Ride your bike on major roads at your own risk and don’t look for me to give you your three feet. Maybe I’ll give you 6 inches."

It never ceases to amaze me how car drivers don't get the irony of telling cyclists to get off the road because car drivers are dangerous.

It never ceases to amaze me how car drivers don't get the irony of telling cyclists to get off the road because car drivers are dangerous.

It saddens me to see people like the OP quit riding because they perceive it to be so dangerous.

God god. A woman was just killed on Tuesday morning around here. The comments are nothing but pro-bike. Sad...

It saddens me to see people like the OP quit riding because they perceive it to be so dangerous.

That is because around here it is. See the giant cut on my eye in my avitar? That was from someone throwing a bottle at my face on the way to work one morning. I am sure there are some bad places to ride in the US.... Jacksonville has got to be in the top 2 or 3. The average driver here HATES cyclists... and they aren't shy about it.


Mike

That is because around here it is. See the giant cut on my eye in my avitar? That was from someone throwing a bottle at my face on the way to work one morning. I am sure there are some bad places to ride in the US.... Jacksonville has got to be in the top 2 or 3. The average driver here HATES cyclists... and they aren't shy about it.


Mike

You do realize that you are not the only person who has ever lived in Jacksonville, right? It ain't great, but it ain't hell either.

You do realize that you are not the only person who has ever lived in Jacksonville, right? It ain't great, but it ain't hell either.

Yes, I do realize that smartass. Tell, me. When did you live in Jax? When and where did you normally ride?

Wow. Jacksonville must really suck. What a bunch of A-holes.

Once your head is clear and you are calm, check out the link I am about to give you. It talks about a 52 year old cyclist that was killed here in Jacksonville. It is a forum of sorts.... Be prepared. The comments these people have about it will make you sick to your stomach. This isn't some freak bike hater forum. This is our local news papers web site that allows comments about news stories.


actually, the comments found on most newspaper websites are much more hateful and ignorant than what one would find on a message board. that's because the comments are often anonymous and the commenters do not belong to a particular community. the result is that people feel comfortable being as nasty as possible.

i'm sorry your local community is so anti-bike, but you should do yourself a favor and ignore the hatespeech you find online.

Really those comments were'nt really as bad as I was expecting. Apparently I've spent too much time on Fark.com bicycle threads. There are some very angry/bored trolls there. Every day people ask me how I can ride my bike everywhere. I live on Long Island which is not known for it's wonderfully patient and skilled driver (where is, right?) "Oh, it's so dangerous! Drivers here are insane!" In 3 years I've had very few real problems with drivers. Little slights here and there, but nothing life-threatening. I'm sorry you feel you can't ride around you're city anymore. That really sucks.

:eek: Wow, I thought my town hated cyclists. Reading those comments made me feel like I was at some sort of protest rally calling for a transportation cleansing.

Hey,

I was stationed in Jacksonville Fla while I was in The Navy. I rode my bike whenever I could, usually 60 miles every third day.
Yes, Jacksonville has it's share of rednecks. Jax is right on the border of Georgia, at the Northern end of Florida.
I had lots of lights on my bike, and I stuck to the side roads.

What I don't get is why more people in Jacksonville don't ride bikes. It must be the horrible drivers that got them scared off the road. I say that because Jacksonville is very flat, with the biggest hills being the approaches to the bridges over the Ortega River. Bicycling is easy in Jacksonville because there are no big hills.

I was in Jax from 1991 to 1993, and I was like the only bicyclist on the road.

i think most of us have gone through a phase when we question if riding a bike is really worth it or just too much trouble (or dangerous).

i think you owe yourself some time on the bike again, to rediscover all the things you love about it. maybe drive to a better area and do a nice long ride from there. can't let these idiots dictate your course in life.

It never ceases to amaze me how car drivers don't get the irony of telling cyclists to get off the road because car drivers are dangerous.

exactly. it's such an obvious irony that i just want to grab these people and shake them until some semblance of reasoning appears. but, i don't have time to be shaking people all day long.

#1
"bicycles do not have tags on them. they do not have insurance on them. they do not have lights or turn signals on them.If you take a car onto the hiway without these items,you will get a ticket or even arrested. So don’t tell me that bicycles have as much right on the road as a car does."


" #2 Now we have one lane each way and an absolutely empty bike lane. The highest and best use of the roads is for vehicles. .

#3 The problem is they ride on San Jose, Beauclerc, Scott Mill and Mandarin Road in packs and actually out into the road by many feet. These pack bicyclists are complete jerks.
[/I]
==============================================================

Well, i haven't perfectly cut and paste, but I agree with some of the sentiments these people are expressing. As a cyclist, I see myself as a secondary user of the roadways, specifically for reasons #1. It helps that I am treated courteously by the vast majority of drivers....so that when a situation arises where my bike makes it difficult for traffic to pass without substantial hassle, I am very willing to wait a few moments on the far right shoulder to let them pass by, in my turn.

#2 is just a reasonable complaint about lack of use. I am not a fan of bike lanes anyway (i think, dollar for dollar, the best investment is broadening shoulders for cyclists), but i can see why siezing roadway space for an 'absolutely empty bike lane' is ridiculous. I say the same thing about the 'carpool' lanes and 'bus lanes' they have installed on some interstates. Empty 99% of the time...

#3 Don't get me started about cyclists in packs, or racing in packs or kids darting in and out of traffic in packs. They are responsible for 99% of the hostility to bikes, much as loud-pipe dudes are responsible for 99% of the hostility to motorcycles.

roughstuff

Lots of jag-offs in this world ...... certainly not limited to J-ville. :twitchy:

... Brad

Lots of jag-offs in this world ...... certainly not limited to J-ville.

http://bikefreeportland.blogspot.com/

:eek:

:mad:

Cut it out guys, this is the OP's "Pity me because I live in Jacksonville and the drivers are mean to me" thread. Maybe we can all chip in and get him some ruby clipless shoes so he can click in three times and end up in Kansas.

#1: I have sympathy for the OP; J-ville, a COLLEGE TOWN for pete's sake, is obviously a black hole where not even the light of knowledge escapes.
#2: The rest of Florida isn't much better -- I will NEVER set foot in that hemorrhoid of a state again!
#3: I don't have a problem with 'commando-style' riding to get around this kind of hate; I'll ride however I have to in order to get from A to B.

Cut it out guys, this is the OP's "Pity me because I live in Jacksonville and the drivers are mean to me" thread. Maybe we can all chip in and get him some ruby clipless shoes so he can click in three times and end up in Kansas.

Ehh, I dunno Chip.
Florida is the Redneck Riviera.

Move.

i think most of us have gone through a phase when we question if riding a bike is really worth it or just too much trouble (or dangerous).

i think you owe yourself some time on the bike again, to rediscover all the things you love about it. maybe drive to a better area and do a nice long ride from there. can't let these idiots dictate your course in life.

Timmhann... I believe we spoke before... years ago. Your words are an inspiration. No those idiots can not dictate my course in life... In fact, just 2 weeks ago, for no particular reason I dusted off my favorite brooks saddle, and polished it. This weekend, I think I will take a ride over to my local bike shop.... see what has to be done to my ride....

Chipper, or whatever your silly name is...

I remember one time when I was touring across the SE and I had a horrible sore just under my nuts... Yes, that is exactly what you are made of....


Mike

If I lived in a place where I felt so uncomfortable cycling I had to give it up .... I'd move.

But it's your choice, and obviously cycling isn't that important to you.

If I lived in a place where I felt so uncomfortable cycling I had to give it up .... I'd move.

But it's your choice, and obviously cycling isn't that important to you.

Or load up and go peddle somewhere its safer on days off and other times when I could if moving isn't a option. These guys seem to get it done in Jacksonville:

http://www.nfbc.us/

you're in bumfuk texas, so you're used to it...

;)

:)

Bum**** is a hell of a lot better than Craphole, Fl.:D. The best day of my life was the day I saw Florida in the rear view mirror after visiting.:p

I've never lived in Florida, but believe me I felt the same way about Texas 20 years ago....

;)

That is because around here it is. See the giant cut on my eye in my avitar? That was from someone throwing a bottle at my face on the way to work one morning. I am sure there are some bad places to ride in the US.... Jacksonville has got to be in the top 2 or 3. The average driver here HATES cyclists... and they aren't shy about it.


Mike

You sounds a little soft, get that in Denmark, and worse. In fact the cycle-paths are so strewn with broken glass from beer-bottles thrown from cars that many use those Dutch perfect armoured tyres and wear a beenie under the crash helmet to protect forehead, ears and back of the neck.

So any tourists wondering why a cyclist would be wearing a woolly hat under their crash helmet in this hot weather, now you know.

I thought you guys didn't wear helmets over there when riding around in town?

I thought you guys didn't wear helmets over there when riding around in town?

Car drivers generally don't do it in the towns as bicycles are faster in the town and can catch up with them. Out of town stretches when the cyclist is on their own is the more usual. Saying that though, I saw a young lady cyclist getting hassled by a BMW mounting and dropping off the cycle-path along Jagtvej one evening, when their advances were not reciprocated they threw a beer bottle at her. She was terrified and in tears when I caught up at the lights. Why a car driver would think a lady would find him attractive when he's threatening to kill or seriously injure her, is just another one of those bizarre attitudes some car drivers appear to hold.

You sounds a little soft, get that in Denmark, and worse. In fact the cycle-paths are so strewn with broken glass from beer-bottles thrown from cars that many use those Dutch perfect armoured tyres and wear a beenie under the crash helmet to protect forehead, ears and back of the neck.

So any tourists wondering why a cyclist would be wearing a woolly hat under their crash helmet in this hot weather, now you know.

Isn't Copenhagen the capital of Denmark... the same Copenhagen which is the dreamworld of the fundamentalist cyclists?

I stopped commuting to work over a year ago. In fact I haven't rode a bike at all in the last year. Those of you that have been around for a while might remember me. Used to post multiple times daily. commuted for 3 years. It was my livelyhood.

Well, I stopped because Jacksonville Florida is the worst place in the country to ride a bike. The reason is the drivers. Jacksonville has developed such a hate for cyclists, that it just isn't safe to ride. I miss it so much.

Please have a seat, get your favorite alcoholic beverage, and relax. Once your head is clear and you are calm, check out the link I am about to give you. It talks about a 52 year old cyclist that was killed here in Jacksonville. It is a forum of sorts.... Be prepared. The comments these people have about it will make you sick to your stomach. This isn't some freak bike hater forum. This is our local news papers web site that allows comments about news stories.

If you ever do a tour thru florida, Avoid Jacksonville.

http://news.jacksonville.com/justin/2008/07/24/bicyclist-seriously-injured-in-collision-with-truck/

On a different thread, I commented that the farther south you go in the USA, the worse it gets for bicyclists. Some dude from Texas didn't like that comment, but here is yet another shining example of a geographic bicycling hell; Florida.

On a different thread, I commented that the farther south you go in the USA, the worse it gets for bicyclists. Some dude from Texas didn't like that comment, but here is yet another shining example of a geographic bicycling hell; Florida.


From the reports I've read here, it ain't any better in most of the rest of the country. Good ol' boys are everywhere, ready to run you off the road.

Wow. Jacksonville must really suck. What a bunch of A-holes.

Jacksonville is not the exception... they're everywhere, trust me...

i ride a 25mph stretch of road from a park to a main thoroughfare... in the same week i was buzzed so close by an elderly woman in a large Buick that i could feel the air flow - and there was no other traffic on the road! the old folks are about the most dangerous drivers around these parts, IMO...

yet, two days later i was riding along, and a young man on a large Japanese motorcycle thought it was funny to buzz me while doing 70mph+ on this 25mph roadway - a real charmer! of course, he was not wearing a helmet... probably one of those ****** bags who like to pop wheelies while riding in traffic...

so, no, they're everywhere...

Y'all should read some of the stuff written about bicyclists in the 1890's by the horse-and-buggy crowd. Hatred toward cyclists predates the automobile.

Y'all should read some of the stuff written about bicyclists in the 1890's by the horse-and-buggy crowd. Hatred toward cyclists predates the automobile.


Yep, farmers would weave back and forth across the road to keep cyclists from passing, kids and some adults would push sticks and poles through the spokes to make riders fall...not good on a Penny Farthing...and through stuff at cyclists. It was endemic both to small towns and the big cities.

On the other hand - I'm not so sure that those comments wouldn't be expected when the story is about a cyclist who is violating the right of way by running a red light, doing so without a helmet, etc. Not exactly a stellar example - I'd be pissed if he pulled out in front of me, in fact I'd be extremely pissed and would chew his ass out, cyclist to cyclist (except that he was not in a condition to be chewed out. . .)


The crosswalk signal had a steady red hand indicating not to cross when he was hit, a Jacksonville Sheriff’s Office news release said. The driver of the truck had a green light and did not have time to react before hitting Jones, who was not wearing a helmet

Running a red light
Not looking (kinda hard to not see a truck, right?)
Not wearing a helmet

Now - how do the comments read when a car violated a cycle's right of way and kills the cyclist?

Isn't Copenhagen the capital of Denmark... the same Copenhagen which is the dreamworld of the fundamentalist cyclists?
I wouldn't take someone who confuses the Danish and the Dutch too seriously (especially when talking about the Danish or the Dutch...)

I wouldn't take someone who confuses the Danish and the Dutch too seriously (especially when talking about the Danish or the Dutch...)

Oh, and don't confuse Copenhagen with Denmark either. Most Danes will tell you that the people in Copenhagen are, different.

Man, are you all uncivilized up there or something?! (you don't have to answer, I know, I am from the USA). One of the big adaptions that you have to make here is that if you are riding a bike, if the person can't get around you safely, they use their brake and wait... I kid you not. And you notice it, move over as much as possible to let them by when it is safe to do so. And you both wave to each other afterwards...

Perhaps it comes from living in a land where people thinking living is more important than being on time. Heck, drive down a dirt road, if there are potholes (of course) with water in them (8 months a year), if there are people walking, you slow down so to not splash them with water as you pass...

The appropriate way to deal with the issue is not more laws, but to actually teach good manners, at home, in school, on TV. What ever happened to good manners?

The appropriate way to deal with the issue is not more laws, but to actually teach good manners, at home, in school, on TV. What ever happened to good manners?

good luck with that, Merkins seem to get ruder with each passing year, you're lucky to be living somewhere that isn't the acceptable norm

:(

#3 Don't get me started about cyclists in packs, or racing in packs or kids darting in and out of traffic in packs. They are responsible for 99% of the hostility to bikes, much as loud-pipe dudes are responsible for 99% of the hostility to motorcycles.

roughstuff

I agree with this statement. Nearly everyone I know that dislikes cyclists or has something bad to say describes encounters with roadies. I have had quite a few as well.

Man, are you all uncivilized up there or something?! (you don't have to answer, I know, I am from the USA). One of the big adaptions that you have to make here is that if you are riding a bike, if the person can't get around you safely, they use their brake and wait... I kid you not. And you notice it, move over as much as possible to let them by when it is safe to do so. And you both wave to each other afterwards...

Perhaps it comes from living in a land where people thinking living is more important than being on time. Heck, drive down a dirt road, if there are potholes (of course) with water in them (8 months a year), if there are people walking, you slow down so to not splash them with water as you pass...

The appropriate way to deal with the issue is not more laws, but to actually teach good manners, at home, in school, on TV. What ever happened to good manners?

That's how I was raised and act to this day. And I'm only 25! But then again, I'm one of these pickup driving, good ol' boys everybody on here hates so much. :lol: I also hold open doors for women. Call me old fashioned.

mcavana, I used to live on Monument Rd in Jax, while not the safest place to bike I've never run into any real problems. Now I live in a VERY bike friendly neighborhood, try riding in Atlantic Beach, Neptune Beach, or Jax Beach, all have good cycle lanes (Atlantic Beach has extra wide cycling sidewalks near my house) and there are enough bikes almost constantly on the road the drivers know to look for them.

here in NYC I've never experienced any overt cyclist-hate... but on the other hand, getting passed with only a few inches of space by speeding cars / trucks is pretty common when riding in traffic here.

Get a grip, dude, the guy was killed after he blew a red.

Yes, I do realize that smartass. Tell, me. When did you live in Jax? When and where did you normally ride?

So, anyone who might possibly offer counterpoint to your view is a "smartass" whose version of life in JAX must be verified in order to confirm his/her version of life in that city.

If your skin is that thin, it is no wonder you gave up riding.

Caruso

Timmhann...Chipper, or whatever your silly name is...

I remember one time when I was touring across the SE and I had a horrible sore just under my nuts... Yes, that is exactly what you are made of....


Mike

Tell us, mcav (or whatever your silly name is...), on what other forum do you post. I want to go read how rough it is here on the Bike Forums, full of disrespectful posters who don't march in lock step to your view and actually foster the open exchange of varying points of view.

I think the mark under (or over - I haven't bothered to check) your eye and that sore just under wherever are clear indicators of your very thin skin.

Go get a tall glass of your favorite beverage (maybe you should forgo the alcohol), a finger-full of BagBalm (stick it wherever - great for sores there), have a seat (please, not on a bike), take a deep breath and a long chill.

Chipcom's name is no more silly than yours, his insight a great deal more clear.

Caruso

Man, are you all uncivilized up there or something?! (you don't have to answer, I know, I am from the USA). One of the big adaptions that you have to make here is that if you are riding a bike, if the person can't get around you safely, they use their brake and wait... I kid you not. And you notice it, move over as much as possible to let them by when it is safe to do so. And you both wave to each other afterwards...

Perhaps it comes from living in a land where people thinking living is more important than being on time. Heck, drive down a dirt road, if there are potholes (of course) with water in them (8 months a year), if there are people walking, you slow down so to not splash them with water as you pass...

The appropriate way to deal with the issue is not more laws, but to actually teach good manners, at home, in school, on TV. What ever happened to good manners?

Actually, the scenario you paint and the good manners play out everyday here (in the USA) also, but posts detailing such mundane behavior make for boring fodder for the A&S forum. Better to have miles of dried out cornstalks from a guy who no longer rides - gives you something into which to sink your teeth.

There are jerks and also kind, respectful drivers (and cyclists) everywhere.
I've experienced (and am guilty of being) both at times.
I've tried (I think successfully) to clean up my riding act, and, wonder of wonder, have found riding to be much safer and more pleasant as a result.

. . . makes me wonder how much of this problem with motorists is perceived, how much is made up, how much is caused by riders who (in the sort of example you paint) would return the polite gesture of a motorist who slows down with a deliberate move on his/her bike designed to insure that the motorist cannot ever pass safely.

I ride in all types of traffic situations, slow bumper to bumper, fast bumper to bumper (unlimited access with fast speed limits (65mph)), deserted rural settings, you name it.

I adapt my riding style to suit the conditions. I don't cower in traffic, but I don't set out to make some sort of statement on behalf of cyclists everywhere with the style of my riding.
I ride for fun, for exercise, to go and come when I commute, and generally do so in safety and with pleasure.

mc-whatever-his-silly-name's claims seem amplified to me. He hasn't posted here in x number of years, hasn't ridden in that time, either. Yet, here his is posting again with wounds over-under his eye and down under wherever which remain ever-raw. He has no time for any comment that doesn't soothe his bruised psyche.

I'm guessing this lack of tolerance causes him troubles wherever he goes, no matter how he chooses to get there.

Caruso