Training & Nutrition - Stay away from acidic foods?

I've heard a couple of times now that cyclists should stay away from acidic foods, such as oranges and tomatoes before competition because the acid will build up in your legs during the event. Nobody seems to have any scientific data to prove this, though. It seems a little out-there to me. Does anyone know if it's actually scientifically true?

As a non-scientist, this looks so left field it's not funny.

Lactic acid build up in the legs is from a lack of oxygen in the muscles created from anaerobic work- in the process of breaking down glucose for energy, if oxygen is not present, pyruvate is converted to lactate (I believe, so don't quote me), which basically shunts the body into using anaerobic respiration as its primary means of breaking down glucose instead, resulting in less production of ATP, which means.... less energy!

It has nothing to do with eating less oranges, tomatoes, etc. Acidic buildup in the legs has to do with a lack of oxygen. Period.

Alright, velo... does this help any?

Koffee

Yup, that's exactly what I thought. That acid from the food isn't going to affect the lactic acid in your muscles. It's two totally different types that aren't related! Thanks.

I HAVE heard of endurance athletes taking large amounts of antacids to buffer the lactic acid, and apparently, it works, but you have to take a LOT of antacids for it to have any effect, like 10x the normal dose.

my father, a biologist, said that it worked for rats...

No problem. Think of it this way- if aerobic respiration took place in the stomach, I might possibly fall for it.

Or... if digestion took place in the muscles instead of the stomach, I could possibly believe it.

Since neither scenario is true, then there's no way I could possibly see that statement as true.

Koffee

I HAVE heard of endurance athletes taking large amounts of antacids to buffer the lactic acid, and apparently, it works, but you have to take a LOT of antacids for it to have any effect, like 10x the normal dose.

my father, a biologist, said that it worked for rats...

Dood, that's not quite the same thing we're talking about. I've heard of that too, but I haven't heard of any real results from it.

I could just see it now- Rolaids nowhere to be found during the Tour de France because all the riders are chowing down on them while riding the Tour.... have you heard of the riders doing that as a means of preventing lactic acid buildup?

;)

Koffee

P.S. Antacids are nasty enough, though. I pity the endurance athlete that's taking 10 times as many because someone got some rat to do it, and it may or may not have actually worked for the rat...

take a look at this, koffee: http://www.hhp.ufl.edu/keepingfit/ARTICLE/soda.HTM

I read it. Although it does make some decent points, at the same time, some of the information provided is not entirely correct to being with- the physiology/biochemistry explanation is not altogether accurate, so it would be difficult to take the claim as seriously.

The other problem I had with the article is that the study with the 800 k runners is a bit flawed. It has been shown over and over again in studies that when you do a test, then repeat the same test with the participants and tell them that some variable has been added, they will be more likely to perform more to the way the researcher wants. When someone shows me a study, I'm more likely to ask for the full study so I can see the results. And a study of 6 runners who were (most likely) told the second time around that the variables have changed, vs a double blind, placebo study where no one knows what they are given or what the point of the test is with thousands of participants where the setting is carefully controlled so that advantages are not allowed, participants are randomly picked, etc. and we've got a control group going to so that we know what the standard is... well, then I can start taking a study with regards to this more seriously.

In the meantime, the antacid effect is not quite what Velo was referring to- we're talking about different things here.

Koffee

There was a good article in Outside recently about enhancing performance.
There was nothing ambigous about it. Steroids, EPO and all that junk works.
I read an article once about an effort to
cut lactic acid in muscles. A fair amount of work has been done trying to deal with lactic acid buildup. But I don't remember anyone being especially successful.

Sorry... contributing to phatman's thread drift. :o
Funny... just yesterday I stumbled across this article. It also advocates potential benefits of bicarb supplementation.

http://www.brianmac.demon.co.uk/lactic.htm

There could be side effects:

As for the side-effects, these may take the form of pain, cramping, diarrhoea or a feeling of being bloated

So don't try it the first time on race day! ;)

This may be a little off the subject, but I attended some operator traning on a blood gas analyzer some years ago for the hospital where I work. This analyzer tells how much your Ph, O2, CO2, and bicarb (HCO3) levels are in a patients blood. I assume these same kinds of instruments are used in traning labs to measure blood gas levels during performace evaluations? It is irronic that the same kind of reaction (anarobic) happens during a heart stoppage, your cells can't get O2 because your blood doesn't circulate.

To connect this to the bike forum, I was stunned to find out that 3 of the about 10 people at the tranning week, where from HORSE RACEING TRACKS! They where buying these same analyzers to check the horses for doping with bicarb before a race! What does this tell you! ;)

I read it. Although it does make some decent points, at the same time, some of the information provided is not entirely correct to being with- the physiology/biochemistry explanation is not altogether accurate, so it would be difficult to take the claim as seriously.

The other problem I had with the article is that the study with the 800 k runners is a bit flawed. It has been shown over and over again in studies that when you do a test, then repeat the same test with the participants and tell them that some variable has been added, they will be more likely to perform more to the way the researcher wants. When someone shows me a study, I'm more likely to ask for the full study so I can see the results. And a study of 6 runners who were (most likely) told the second time around that the variables have changed, vs a double blind, placebo study where no one knows what they are given or what the point of the test is with thousands of participants where the setting is carefully controlled so that advantages are not allowed, participants are randomly picked, etc. and we've got a control group going to so that we know what the standard is... well, then I can start taking a study with regards to this more seriously.

In the meantime, the antacid effect is not quite what Velo was referring to- we're talking about different things here.

Koffee


I agree with you on this one Koffee. I don't see how sodium bicarbonate is going to do anything to combat lactic acid build up. Sodium bicarbonate is taken to neutralize excess acidity produced in the stomach. You just drop it right down into the stomach. Quick n easy.

For sodium bicarbonate to neutralize lactic acid in the muscles, it would have to get transported there by the blood. The blood operates in a very narrow pH range. I can not see the blood transporting a base effectively to a distant site. I just do not think there is a mechanism for this. Now the article suggests that taking Sodium bicarbonate helps increase the body's ability to combat acids. But that means the body has to be able to store a base like sodium bicarbonate. Again, I don't see that. The body does not really have ways to store large amounts of acids or bases for neutralizing each other. It isn't like the body has little cans of reagents sitting in a back room or something.