Advocacy & Safety - "Critical Mass riders injure driver in Capitol Hill altercation"

Odd that this hasn't been posted here yet. Anyhoo, here's an excerpt from the Seattle Times:




Seattle police said they were still looking today for one of a group of Critical Mass bicyclists who attacked and injured a driver during a violent altercation on Capitol Hill Friday evening.

Two other bicyclists have been jailed. But some riders in the event have said the driver was the aggressor.

Just after 7 p.m. Friday, the group of at least 100 bicyclists was moving en masse down East Aloha Street when a man and his girlfriend in a Subaru station wagon tried to pull out of a parking spot, said Seattle police spokesman Mark Jamieson.

For years, Critical Mass has held monthly public bike rides through Seattle to demonstrate for bicyclists' road rights.

According to Jamieson, as the Critical Mass group moved down the street, blocking traffic, some riders got in the way of the Subaru and prevented it from leaving. Some bikers sat on the car and were banging on it, he said.

"The driver was pretty fearful that he was about to be assaulted by the bicyclists," Jamieson said.

The man tried to back up, but bumped into a biker. "This enraged the group," Jamieson said.

Several of the bikers bashed up the Subaru, shattering the windshield and rear window, Jamieson said.


Click through and read the whole deal. Just sad, really.

http://seattletimes.nwsource.com/html/localnews/2008074874_webcriticalmass26m.html

It seems the driver is "always" the aggressor. I guess if a bank robber gets beat up by a customer, then the customer is the aggressor.
Slashing the tires with a knife is Assault with a Deadly Weapon. It's time the police started writing tickets en masse.

On group motorcycle rides, the line could stretch out for quite a bit. We always found it was best to let some gaps develope in the group when there were auto's around, so that they could drive more normally, instead of trying to figure out how to handle something they knew nothing about (ie: a large group ride). The autos would always be halfway up the line in the left lane when they realized they needed to get in the right turn lane. Leaving some gaps would give them an obvious way to do it, instead of trying to force into the line. In suburban areas, the gaps were best if they were large enough to allow the occasional car to cross your path. By doing this, the end of the line would get a few minutes behind, but so what?

Starting all at once may not be such a good idea? Behaving like an unruly mob can't be a good idea.

Slashing the tires with a knife is Assault with a Deadly Weapon
Well, no, it's not. The deadly weapon has to be threatening someone's person. Slashing tires is vandalism.

Are those Critical Mass guys kinda whacky?

making: As I understand it, they're rather anarchic. There's no actual leadership, so groups assemble under the name and behave how they see fit. You never know from one city to the next or one event to the next what's going to happen, whether people will be civilized or whether someone will get angry and the mob will follow.

I am a fairly new cyclist, and have been reading a lot on the subject of traffic law/bicycle rights and advocacy. When I first heard about CM, I thought, "Hmm, that sounds like a good idea. Get out there, get in the public eye and heighten awareness of cycling by being ambassadors of our hobby/lifestyle."

The concept behind CM is solid. The execution that I have seen and read about is juvenile, pathetic, frequently illegal and always flat-out detrimental to the goal that these CM half-wits are supposedly working for.

Mobs are a good reason to carry lots of ammo in the car.

making: As I understand it, they're rather anarchic. There's no actual leadership, so groups assemble under the name and behave how they see fit. You never know from one city to the next or one event to the next what's going to happen, whether people will be civilized or whether someone will get angry and the mob will follow.


I'm not sure that anyone can generalize about CM rides as they seem to vary from city to city.

The reason there is no leader named is the same as if your local bike shop would organize a ride, no one wants to assume liability.

What happened to "Share the road"?

Mobs are a good reason to carry lots of ammo in the car.
I dunno, I notice that police usually have more than ammo and bravura when they confront a mob... The safe way to deal with a mob, unless you are a well-armed and disciplined militia, is to avoid them...no?

I mean, we know how it is, when you're riding, adrenaline pumping, and some jerk does a stupid move. We want to confront, escalate, etc. CMers, I believe are well intentioned, but with the safety of numbers, a little indignation, and a jerky move on the part of a driver, and things can go bad quickly.

Personally, I think violent incidents at individual CMs are just blowback from years of unequal treatment on the roads.

The safe way to deal with a mob, unless you are a well-armed and disciplined militia, is to avoid them...no?Probably. But when the mob has you surrounded, the safe way to deal with the mob is to hit the gas and plow on through. Let them sort out which body parts belong to whom afterwards.

Probably. But when the mob has you surrounded, the safe way to deal with the mob is to hit the gas and plow on through. Let them sort out which body parts belong to whom afterwards.

Hah, that is exactly why I keep my snow blade on the front of my truck all year. Mob my ***.:lol:

Personally, I think violent incidents at individual CMs are just blowback from years of unequal treatment on the roads.

The problem with justifying it that way is that a lot of participants haven't spent years being abused by drivers. They hear other people's stories, they get heated up, they're more likely to explode. Or they were only slightly angry but able to deal with it in a civilised manner, until they got into a crowd. It just takes one person getting violent to set off the chain reaction. That's what mob mentality is -- groupthink that tips the balance ever so slightly in favour of the bigger, louder, and more violent display.

I'm amused by the fact that people who consider themselves anarchic and leaderless are so often prone to being part of herds that turn into mobs. There's millions of years of evolution behind our herd instincts. Calling yourself 'anarchist' isn't enough to shake it off -- you just find something else that you feel justified in following.

Well, no, it's not. The deadly weapon has to be threatening someone's person. Slashing tires is vandalism.

When the knife comes out, how is the person in the car supposed to know it's only for the tires? I guess that guy that cracked a window on a car with a baseball bat WASN"T convicted of assault and battery even though no glass went inside the car, or my wife was not truthful about her jury duty? I didn't believe it either.
Too bad the guy didn't punch the accelerator and drive through the crowd. After all, he was just trying to get away from an out of control mob that was threatening his life.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Critical_Mass#cite_note-17

Just read the wikipedia summary of the whole thing. Why would you even show up for such a thing?

It's clear from altercations like this one that it's time to shut these 'rides' down.

The problem with justifying it that way is that a lot of participants haven't spent years being abused by drivers. They hear other people's stories, they get heated up, they're more likely to explode. Or they were only slightly angry but able to deal with it in a civilised manner, until they got into a crowd. It just takes one person getting violent to set off the chain reaction. That's what mob mentality is -- groupthink that tips the balance ever so slightly in favour of the bigger, louder, and more violent display.

I'm amused by the fact that people who consider themselves anarchic and leaderless are so often prone to being part of herds that turn into mobs. There's millions of years of evolution behind our herd instincts. Calling yourself 'anarchist' isn't enough to shake it off -- you just find something else that you feel justified in following.Brian: "You are all individuals!"

Crowd: "Yes, we are all individuals!"

Lone voice: "I'm not!"

Crowd member: "Shhh!"

Probably. But when the mob has you surrounded, the safe way to deal with the mob is to hit the gas and plow on through. Let them sort out which body parts belong to whom afterwards.
That didn't work out too well for the person in the OP's story, did it? Also, what's ironic is that it's reasoning like this (righteously indignant at the crimes of others as the foundation for a violent response) that drives violence on the part of cyclists...

In other words, you sound like a violent CMer to me...


The problem with justifying it that way is that a lot of participants haven't spent years being abused by drivers. They hear other people's stories, they get heated up, they're more likely to explode. Or they were only slightly angry but able to deal with it in a civilised manner, until they got into a crowd. It just takes one person getting violent to set off the chain reaction. That's what mob mentality is -- groupthink that tips the balance ever so slightly in favour of the bigger, louder, and more violent display.

I'm amused by the fact that people who consider themselves anarchic and leaderless are so often prone to being part of herds that turn into mobs. There's millions of years of evolution behind our herd instincts. Calling yourself 'anarchist' isn't enough to shake it off -- you just find something else that you feel justified in following.
I'm not justifying it, I'm saying what I see is the pattern. My point wasn't that these are abused people finally lashing out. My point was that, right or wrong, it's a predictable course of events, and wouldn't likely happen very often in a place like Amsterdam.

Just as you point out, mob mentality has predictable effects. I'm just saying how all of us play very predictable roles.

That didn't work out too well for the person in the OP's story, did it?That's where you're reasoning falls apart. The guy in the Subaru tried to back up, but stopped when he hit somebody who had him blocked in from behind.

If surrounded by a violent mob, I wouldn't stop. That's a decision I made a long tine ago, and it still holds true today. Even if the mob is on bikes. They mob me at their risk, not mine.


Also, what's ironic is that it's reasoning like this (righteously indignant at the crimes of others as the foundation for a violent response) that drives violence on the part of cyclists...

In other words, you sound like a violent CMer to me...Whatever. :rolleyes:

That is a really ****ed up situation. What happened to taking the high road? I hope some of the other cyclists in the group yelled at the hot heads to calm down. I hate when people realize something is going wrong and they just sit by and do nothing.

Anyways, this is obviously an isolated incident. For how many rides taking place around the world each month we really don't see very many stories. So to the guy that said CM needs to be shut down, you should stop blowing things out of proportion.

If a mob started smashing my windows and threatening my wife and/or kids, I'm gonna shoot first, ask questions later.

That's where you're reasoning falls apart. The guy in the Subaru tried to back up, but stopped when he hit somebody who had him blocked in from behind.

If surrounded by a violent mob, I wouldn't stop. That's a decision I made a long tine ago, and it still holds true today. Even if the mob is on bikes. They mob me at their risk, not mine.

Whatever. :rolleyes:
Sure, I can construct a fantasy scenario in which I protect my loved ones against a lynch-mob with an uzzi.

In other words, sure, you're right. If surrounded by a violent group, do whatever you can to protect yourself.

It's harder to imagine ways to de-escalate situations. It's uncomfortable, and requires stepping out of the black and white world in our head.

For example, if I point out that the CM mob was not violent until after you added this guy to the mix, most people would turn off their mind and start imagining I'm assigning blame to the guy that was beat up. I'm not. I wasn't there.

However, how do you and I react to this? You react by saying, "heck, I'd run them over. Self-defense."

I'm imagining how I would have tried to avoid interaction with the group if I were in my car, or if unavoidable, how I would try to start it off well with a friendly wave, or how to cool it down if it got heated, etc. etc.

But to each his own...

Anyways, this is obviously an isolated incident. For how many rides taking place around the world each month we really don't see very many stories. So to the guy that said CM needs to be shut down, you should stop blowing things out of proportion.


http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Critical_Mass#cite_note-17

Read the link. Not an isolated incident. Maybe not a routine incident, but certainly not isolated.

Sure, I can construct a fantasy scenario in which I protect my loved ones against a lynch-mob with an uzzi.

In other words, sure, you're right. If surrounded by a violent group, do whatever you can to protect yourself.I don't have any fantasies about inflicting violence with Uzis and such. However, I am very clear about not stopping for mobs. That's not a fantasy, it's a plan, just like planning for stepping into a doorway during an earthquake.


It's harder to imagine ways to de-escalate situations. It's uncomfortable, and requires stepping out of the black and white world in our head.

For example, if I point out that the CM mob was not violent until after you added this guy to the mix, most people would turn off their mind and start imagining I'm assigning blame to the guy that was beat up. I'm not. I wasn't there.

However, how do you and I react to this? You react by saying, "heck, I'd run them over. Self-defense."

I'm imagining how I would have tried to avoid interaction with the group if I were in my car, or if unavoidable, how I would try to start it off well with a friendly wave, or how to cool it down if it got heated, etc. etc.

But to each his own...We don't know what happened to trigger the violence of the CM crowd... yet. However, my guess at this point is that the driver saw an opening in traffic, and decided to go. And this violated the "rules" that CM has imposed on the rest of society, i.e., that one doesn't proceed driving until CM passes. And predictably, when some secret unwritten rule that is only followed by the small group of riders is imposed on people who don't even know it exists, it will be "violated." When John Q. Driver violated that secret unwritten rule, CM responded with what is by now their stereotypical mob violence.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Critical_Mass#cite_note-17

Read the link. Not an isolated incident. Maybe not a routine incident, but certainly not isolated.It's happened often enough now that it's becoming stereotypical CM mob violence.

What?

I don't have any fantasies about inflicting violence with Uzis and such. However, I am very clear about not stopping for mobs. That's not a fantasy, it's a plan, just like planning for stepping into a doorway during an earthquake.

We don't know what happened to trigger the violence of the CM crowd... yet. However, my guess at this point is that the driver saw an opening in traffic, and decided to go. And this violated the "rules" that CM has imposed on the rest of society, i.e., that one doesn't proceed driving until CM passes. And predictably, when some secret unwritten rule that is only followed by the small group of riders is imposed on people who don't even know it exists, it will be "violated." When John Q. Driver violated that secret unwritten rule, CM responded with what is by now their stereotypical mob violence.





The ONLY "secrets" are that you avoid getting run over by people who could care less about anything else,

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Critical_Mass#cite_note-17

Read the link. Not an isolated incident. Maybe not a routine incident, but certainly not isolated.

HOLY CAMOLY so many incidents in 10 years and thousands of rides, I counted like 20 and a lot of them were for really stupid stuff not having anything to do with conflicts between motorists.

Probably. But when the mob has you surrounded, the safe way to deal with the mob is to hit the gas and plow on through. Let them sort out which body parts belong to whom afterwards.

about the dumbest thing you've ever posted


:rolleyes:


:thumb:

I am a fairly new cyclist, and have been reading a lot on the subject of traffic law/bicycle rights and advocacy. When I first heard about CM, I thought, "Hmm, that sounds like a good idea. Get out there, get in the public eye and heighten awareness of cycling by being ambassadors of our hobby/lifestyle."

The concept behind CM is solid. The execution that I have seen and read about is juvenile, pathetic, frequently illegal and always flat-out detrimental to the goal that these CM half-wits are supposedly working for.

Critical Mass started out with good intentions - something like a gay pride parade - get out there, get visible, show the people that bicycles count too.

What it turned into was a mob of hoodlums on wheels that seems to get more violent with every event.

Critical Mass organizers are doing bicycling a great dis-service by holding these events. Few activities have done as much harm to the cause of bicycling as Critical Mass.

If any Critical Mass organizers are on bikeforums.net, PLEASE give up this destructive activity.

about the dumbest thing you've ever posted


:rolleyes:


:thumb:Whatever. :rolleyes:

There's a different account of what happened here. (http://slog.thestranger.com/2008/07/last_nights_critical_mass_melee) What's most interesting is the comments following, particularly the comments from those who support biking and walking, but are soured on CM. Quite a different perspective from people who have actually witnessed the Seattle CMs (and some from people who witnessed this particular CM).

Another Eyewitness Account (http://arcanius.silverfir.net/blog/critical-mass-collision)

http://arcanius.silverfir.net/media/images/2008/07/twisted-fixie-small.jpg
the motorist drove over this bicycle and the cyclist's leg after words had been exchanged but before any other physical contact had occurred; in other words, the motorist initiated physical contact, not the cyclists.

the motorist drove over this bicycle and the cyclist's leg after words had been exchanged but allegedly before any other physical contact had occurred; in other words, the motorist allegedly initiated physical contact, not the cyclists.

I fixed that for you.

I'm not defending anyone here, especially the driver, but there are conflicting eyewitness accounts for this incident.

Another Eyewitness Account (http://arcanius.silverfir.net/blog/critical-mass-collision)If that (and the other link) is accurate, then the driver assaulted cyclists in a peaceful crowd with a deadly weapon. Which way lies the truth?

even without the fisticuffs, drunkeness, bare-assed hooliganism, etc CM simply creates more animosity toward cyclists in general via their non-violent tactics such as corking, cycloning and whatnot.

the guy in the car should have waited for traffic to clear before entering the road.

instead, he became an law breaking motorist.

he assaulted, ran over and hit bicyclists with his car after yeling he was late for a reservation.

Are motorists allowed to hit vehicles in the main traffic flow if they are late for an appointment??? Is this allowed?

How would y'all feel if your family was out for a bike ride and got assaulted by an impatient motorist?

It's funny, this story ran in Seattle's paper this morning; opposite on page 15 was an LA Times article about the Colorado sheriff ticketing riders for riding two abreast- the spandex crowd. He's even made comments about the spandex clothing.

I wonder who's 'ruining' cycling in Larimer County? the CMers, or the weekend pelotons?

I've thought of the perfect automotive accessory for drivers who live in places that are infested with those CM "idiots on parade:" A revolving roof-mounted pepper spray dispenser.

I've thought of the perfect automotive accessory for drivers who live in places that are infested with those CM "idiots on parade:" A revolving roof-mounted pepper spray dispenser.

Maybe you should stop thinking.

If a mob started smashing my windows and threatening my wife and/or kids, I'm gonna shoot first, ask questions later.

I'm going to have to say +1 to that. As mortified as I would be at having to use deadly force, this is an example of where it would be appropriate. Thank God the mob did not seriously hurt anybody.

If a mob started smashing my windows and threatening my wife and/or kids, I'm gonna shoot first, ask questions later.

Is this after you as the driver decided to proceed in spite of the human obstacles (traffic), striking someone else's wife, kids, son, father etc?

Because you were being, in your opinion, inconvenienced?

Then when you've struck a human being with your vehicle and the other people there demand you stop, that's when you shoot them, right?

Is this after you as the driver decided to proceed in spite of the human obstacles (traffic), striking someone else's wife, kids, son, father etc?

Because you were being, in your opinion, inconvenienced?

Then when you've struck a human being with your vehicle and the other people there demand you stop, that's when you shoot them, right?

Obvioulsy if it was just a case of inconvience, it was wrong to run over people. If the guy truly felt threatened then I think CM was wrong. They should have cleared a path when the guy started freaking out if possible.

Too bad the guy didn't punch the accelerator and drive through the crowd. After all, he was just trying to get away from an out of control mob that was threatening his life.

As it turns out that was not the case.

Shame on you for espousing murder & violence.

Maybe I am paranoid but if a group of people surround my car so that I cannot move, I am going to be a bit concerned and try to get out of there. What would happen if a group of pedestrians circled a cyclist and told them not to move until the peds said it was ok? Would you feel threatened?

It's clear from altercations like this one that it's time to shut these 'rides' down.

Universities are often the scene of telling conflicts between ideas. It's clear from this that it's time to shut these universities down.

I hear an awful lot of speculation that seems to be in line with the King 5 story despite 2 eye witness accounts that paint a very different picture. As is often the case, the truth probably lies somewhere in the middle. If so I can't see how anybody deserved to get hit by a car.

It seems like for some people, BF is just another opportunity to run their mouths.

Statements like:
-Mobs are a good reason to carry lots of ammo in the car.
-...when the mob has you surrounded, the safe way to deal with the mob is to hit the gas and plow on through. Let them sort out which body parts belong to whom afterwards.
-Hah, that is exactly why I keep my snow blade on the front of my truck all year.
Are complete bs. I'd be willing to bet that if "surrounded by a mob" you guys would sit your **sses right where you were until they left. In the heat of the moment let's hope that we default to respect for life and not violence because I've been inconvenienced.

As for stupid comments like:
-It's clear from altercations like this one that it's time to shut these 'rides' down.
-It's happened often enough now that it's becoming stereotypical CM mob violence.
-(RE: CM)What it turned into was a mob of hoodlums on wheels that seems to get more violent with every event.
Have you guys ever even seen a CM ride? My guess is that you get all of your info from news media that we all know would much rather paint CM as a vicious band of bike ninjas ready to destroy America starting by attacking it's first love - driving. They could roll into your community next! Quick, bring out the pepper spray turret for the top of your Subaru!

Now that's entertainment and surely the best way to sell news!

Have you guys ever even seen a CM ride? My guess is that you get all of your info from news media that we all know would much rather paint CM as a vicious band of bike ninjas ready to destroy America starting by attacking it's first love - driving. They could roll into your community next! Quick, bring out the pepper spray turret for the top of your Subaru!

Unfortunately, the news media is exactly how most of the non-cycling public gets their information about CM. Accurate (unlikely) or not (much more likely), the mainstream media reports on this event tend to portray CM as a dangerous mob of cycling scofflaws who attacked an innocent motorist.

I fail to see how the non-cycling public will ever view this as "celebrating cycling" and legitimately "asserting cyclists' right to the road".

Does anyone find it weird that CM riders seem well equiped to slash tires on short notice? I guess I haven't carried a pocket knife on a bike ride in too long.