just unable to handle the pressure? With his lashing out at all and sundry, his poor TT performance, and lack of grace in defeat with his (not very) veiled hints at Sastre doping, does he need serious psychological help, or is he simply a mental weakling destined never to win the Tour?

By the way, in my country we have a comedian called Lee Evans. I don't know if they're related, but he looks just like Cadel, has the same hyperactive and highly strung personality, and also sounds as if he's been inhaling helium. They're both figures of fun, but in different ways.

Must be an Austrialian thing, because Mcewen seems to show the same kind of arrogant class when he opens his mouth too.

McEwen gets a pass because, well, the dude backed up the talk. Guy was vicious in a sprint.

Cadel, not so much. I would have liked him to put his better foot forward considering he was representing Australia. Had he not been a compatriot, i doubt i would have been pulling for him to win.

just unable to handle the pressure?

Bingo.

... Brad

As the tour wore on, i was cheering for anyone but Evans - hes a whining, boring to watch jumped up little weirdo - yes his team offered him no support, to be honest, if i was in the lotto team, i wouldnt help him either - badmouth your team Cadel, good motivational technique....

People who say it was good tactics limiting his losses on D'Huez - it may have been the case, but it was boring as sin watching him sucking wheel for 21 stages - surprised he can tt at all without a wheel to follow.

Glad he didnt win, hope Astana is back next year, and the Schleck's both hit good form so that Cadel "Face like an arse don't touch my dog or ill cut your head off" Evans doesn't win, and i can laugh at him some more by watching youtube interviews.

we all expect these guys to be machines, like robots

Have you ever stopped to consider what deep fatigue does to your moods? It makes you cranky, to say the least.

He has had to ride with the hopes of a continent on his shoulders while CSC sicked the dogs on him.

Clearly, he had to face some dissappointment, too.

but the fact of it is that your emotions are like the guages on a race car. When you are not meeting some of your basic needs (like rest, for instance) the wheels start to come off and that will first manifest itself in your emotions.

so that the guy came unglued to me just says he gave it all he had. Give him a few days to come to terms with things.

Must be an Austrialian thing, because Mcewen seems to show the same kind of arrogant class when he opens his mouth too.

Mckewan's comments on sunday about Evans were quite measured I thought. Evans blames the lack of team support for losing the Yellow, and Mckewen certainly has some frustration in getting no support himself.

When asked about what's been said e Mckewen essentially said "its been a long 3 weeks everyone's tired, we need to give it some time." Under the circumstances, and considering who it was coming from, I thought it was a very measured response.

People who say it was good tactics limiting his losses on D'Huez - it may have been the case, but it was boring as sin watching him sucking wheel for 21 stages - surprised he can tt at all without a wheel to follow.



now while I'm for giving him a pass on being a jackass, I do agree that watching him race is like watching paint dry. I'v never been a fan of his for that reason.

Mckewan's comments on sunday about Evans were quite measured I thought. Evans blames the lack of team support for losing the Yellow, and Mckewen certainly has some frustration in getting no support himself.

When asked about what's been said e Mckewen essentially said "its been a long 3 weeks everyone's tired, we need to give it some time." Under the circumstances, and considering who it was coming from, I thought it was a very measured response.


he also said they knew going in they weren't as strong as CSC. When he said the strongest man won, I thought that was really telling of what the mood in the team was. He definitely was not saying what he wanted to really say, though. That was a very measured response. Almost diplomatic.

If Evans was on a team like CSC he would have won going away. He is 100 % right about that. Ol' Cadel he's alright in my book. It kills me when I read about how he is boring, he isn't a pure climber and isn't any more boring than Levi, Ullrich, Vandevelde, Indurain etc. Tempo climbers all. Cadel actually took a few digs this tour. The real question is where the hell was Popovych? Isolated all tour even worse than last year IMO Cadel was beaten down by the final ITT whereas Sastre was fresh after being protected and out of the headlines for 2.5 weeks.
Second place, yeah he can't handle the pressure. He is kind of a dick though.

I don't know if he's a dick or not but I do want to see the eventual winner of the Tour work for it, particularly in the mountain stages. Attack your closest rivals, put them on their heels. If Silence-Lotto's strategy was minimize your losses in the mountains by playing it safe and staying as close to your rival's wheel as you can because you're a better time trialist it obviously didn't work. He may have been put in that position because of the lack of real support that he was getting from his team but it made it easy for CSC to isolate and attack him in the mountains and get a big enough lead over him that the TT didn't matter.

As for Robbie McEwen, that dude can say what he wants to because he can ride like nobody else. When he was penalized for digging his head into the shoulder of another guy to get position during a sprint he was asked why he thought he'd been punished and his answer was "Cause they know they can't beat me!" To make his point he went out on the next stage and won it then sat up and gave us the fingers pointing to himself to make sure everyone got a good look at him. Plus, last year during the second stage (I think) he had a mechanical, was off the back of the peloton right at the end of the stage, his team rode him back into the peloton and he came out of nowhere to win the stage. That was quite possibly the best bit of riding I've ever seen. Maybe Cadel should be taking notes.

I don't know if he's a dick or not but I do want to see the eventual winner of the Tour work for it, particularly in the mountain stages. Attack your closest rivals, put them on their heels. If Silence-Lotto's strategy was minimize your losses in the mountains by playing it safe and staying as close to your rival's wheel as you can because you're a better time trialist it obviously didn't work.

You are correct - their strategy did not work.

However, almost every expert in the world expected this strategy to work given Cadel's ITT ability. You've got to play the odds - which SL did. They just got a below average TT out of Evans.

... Brad

I think he was just beat down after being hammered again and again by the dream team of CSC. They always had a fresh guy on him, making him work. Had he tried to attack we all know they would have just marked him, let him use his energy, and go back to business as usual when he gave it up....grinding him down. By the time the TT came around....his legs were toast.

Perfect example of a strong rider being no match for a strong team.

...As for Robbie McEwen...To make his point he went out on the next stage and won it then sat up and gave us the fingers pointing to himself to make sure everyone got a good look at him.

Uh...he was pointing at the logo on his jersey because the team supported him so well on that stage and gave him a perfect lead-out.

man you guys are way too hard on him, lighten up and act your IQ's, at least he talks from his heart instead of putting on a diplomatic press conference. you guys just love sales people.

However, almost every expert in the world expected this strategy to work given Cadel's ITT ability. You've got to play the odds - which SL did. They just got a below average TT out of Evans.

... Brad


Exactly, and couple that with a better TT from Sastre than almost anyone expected. And Popovych disappointed as well, he could have been more visible alongside Evans on some of the mountain stages. In the one stage where Popo did appear to have decent legs, he ended up in a break in which the tactics didn't benefit Evans at all.

It's a long race...you can't expect these guys to be 100% diplomatic all the time. I'm sure the constant interviews by the media can really start to wear on a rider after a while. Give things a few weeks to calm down.

I think he was just beat down after being hammered again and again by the dream team of CSC. They always had a fresh guy on him, making him work. Had he tried to attack we all know they would have just marked him, let him use his energy, and go back to business as usual when he gave it up....grinding him down. By the time the TT came around....his legs were toast.

Perfect example of a strong rider being no match for a strong team.


All the other GC guys responded to those attacks as well (they might not have kept up necessarily, but they responded with the effort), and they didn't seem to fade in the TT. Menchov and VDV come to mind....neither of those guys had any real help in the mountains either.

All the other GC guys responded to those attacks as well (they might not have kept up necessarily, but they responded with the effort), and they didn't seem to fade in the TT. Menchov and VDV come to mind....neither of those guys had any real help in the mountains either.


Who was it doing the chase up L' Alp? Because it sure looked like Evans to me??
And how far did VDV and Menchov end up behind Cadel overall??
I guess your right, Cadel wasn't putting in any effort what so ever.
I fnd it amusing that Cadel gets called boring, then in same breath critisised for speaking his mind (and the truth) to the media.
Deni Menchov, now there is a barrel of laughs and insight when it come to the media??????

Who was it doing the chase up L' Alp? Because it sure looked like Evans to me??
And how far did VDV and Menchov end up behind Cadel overall??
I guess your right, Cadel wasn't putting in any effort what so ever.

Oh wait, you're from Australia? Never mind then.

:rolleyes:Oh wait, you're from Australia? Never mind then.

How much does drafting matter when going up 8% grades on l'Alpe?

How much does drafting matter when going up 8% grades on l'Alpe?

I don't know, I've heard there are tougher climbs in Wisconsin :innocent:

I dislike Evans, but I think he rode a strong and intelligent tour. It seems to me like SL tried to win the tour on the cheap. They had Horner and could have added Popo, but instead they chose to substitute one for the other, leaving them (and Evans) with no margin for unfavorable contingencies. I might prefer that Evans be more diplomatic about his team, but I've come around to the view that he is pointing out the nearly inevitable consequences of a strategy chosen not by him, but by SL management. IMO, that's where the blame ought to go for any perceived failures on Evans' part, and I don't fault him for pointing the finger at them.

Some have pointed out that VdV and Menchov also had no help in the high mountains, nor Kohl for that matter. But VdV and Kohl had already exceeded expectations simply by being in the picture, so I don't think they had nearly the weight of pressure that Evans bore. Menchov, whose team pursues a similar strategy, might have faced such pressure, but he had pretty much eliminated it by the time of the ITT, when his chances for the victory were gone and for the podium nearly gone. Not to mention that none of them crashed as badly as Evans did.

So anyway, while I think Evans is a wheelsucker and a whinger, it seems to me that he made the very best of a situation that he didn't create.

That said, he should lose the dog.

For what its worth I am from Australia and as much as I believe Cadel did the best he could under the circumstances, he better find some charisma pretty quickly. The guy is just plain boring!!!!!

So, Cadel should attack uphill because it'd entertain you guys. Even though the dude isn't a pure climber. You don't like him cuz he's boring and a bit high strung after riding his ass off for 3 weeks.

How many of you race?

Oh they race, old men on bike paths for a 10 minute comute to work. If the weather suits that is, real hard men of the roads these experts, clearly.

So, Cadel should attack uphill because it'd entertain you guys. Even though the dude isn't a pure climber. You don't like him cuz he's boring and a bit high strung after riding his ass off for 3 weeks.

How many of you race?

Thats pretty much true...

I dont like him because he is a whining arsehole who badmouths his team and slags off CSC because they have a better team ("3vs1... 3vs1...")

My favourite rider in the peloton is Jens - hes a character and he is great to watch - just because he wont win the TdF doesnt mean i cant like him as a rider. By the same token, it doesnt matter to me if Cadel is a GC contender or not - i think hes boring to watch and thus dont like him. A rider's position in the GC has no bearing on if i like them or not. I like Cav and he looked like a good contender for the lanterne rouge before he dropped out.

You spectacularly miss the point with the "How many of you race?" comment, both you and I are looking at the tour from a spectators point of view - unless your cat-2-meter really needs an update and you were riding in the tour - so wether I race or not is irrelevant (i do, but see above...)

I also watch Formula 1, i dont like Kimi Raikonnen - then again, i dont race F1 cars, so im not entitled to that view...

Thats pretty much true...

I dont like him because he is a whining arsehole who badmouths his team and slags off CSC because they have a better team ("3vs1... 3vs1...")

My favourite rider in the peloton is Jens - hes a character and he is great to watch - just because he wont win the TdF doesnt mean i cant like him as a rider. By the same token, it doesnt matter to me if Cadel is a GC contender or not - i think hes boring to watch and thus dont like him. A rider's position in the GC has no bearing on if i like them or not. I like Cav and he looked like a good contender for the lanterne rouge before he dropped out.

You spectacularly miss the point with the "How many of you race?" comment, both you and I are looking at the tour from a spectators point of view - unless your cat-2-meter really needs an update and you were riding in the tour - so wether I race or not is irrelevant (i do, but see above...)

I also watch Formula 1, i dont like Kimi Raikonnen - then again, i dont race F1 cars, so im not entitled to that view...

#1

By that other guy's reasoning, no one except 'real racers' would ever be able to comment on the tour or any other race. wtf. This is a discussion board, one of those places people go to read and post their opinions and thoughts, people aren't resticted because 'they don't race' themselves. And no, I don't race. I ride because I love riding. I watch the tour and other pro races becuase it's cool seeing just how good those guys are. I don't like Cadel because he does nothing but whine, he's an inverterate wheel sucker, and my opinion is he didn't win the tour because he didn't earn the win, while Sastre did (on Alp d'Huez).

I also watch Formula 1, i dont like Kimi Raikonnen - then again, i dont race F1 cars, so im not entitled to that view...

ZING! Nice.

I love the "do you even race?" crowd. They act like their opinions are granted instant validity and they float on top of everyone else's suspended by their immense empirical knowledge of the sport. "If you don't race, you can't possibly understand the complex tactics and strategies!"

You are correct - their strategy did not work.

However, almost every expert in the world expected this strategy to work given Cadel's ITT ability. You've got to play the odds - which SL did. They just got a below average TT out of Evans.

... Brad

Good post Brad. Very good.

So, Cadel should attack uphill because it'd entertain you guys. Even though the dude isn't a pure climber. You don't like him cuz he's boring and a bit high strung after riding his ass off for 3 weeks.

How many of you race?

Apparently not many. And fewer watch more than this one race.

ZING! Nice.

I love the "do you even race?" crowd. They act like their opinions are granted instant validity and they float on top of everyone else's suspended by their immense empirical knowledge of the sport. "If you don't race, you can't possibly understand the complex tactics and strategies!"

Incorrect.

These conclusions are drawn from what is posted.

Incorrect.

These conclusions are drawn from what is posted.

It would depend on the poster, I should think. In any case, that little quoted part you're picking up on was the tongue-in-cheek bit. The point stands. One doesn't need to race to understand racing.

It would depend on the poster, I should think. In any case, that little quoted part you're picking up on was the tongue-in-cheek bit. The point stands. One doesn't need to race to understand racing.

When doing tongue in cheek, if it's to be taken that way, usually a :);) get's that point across.

One does not need understand racing. When one does not, usually one asks a question versus making a statement, then trying to defend it when shown that what one thought one observed was, indeed, incorrect.

From my perspective, I don't hang out on basketball websites arguing strategy because it's not a sport I played and understand. To me, it's ten guys running around until someone shoots the ball.

Some people come here and ask questions, because they want to learn. It's the ones that start out with, "What an idiot that DS is for doing..." Or, "That rider/team really sucks because...", or "So and so is a choke artist..." that are idiotic. They have no clue what's really going on.

As Sherlock Holmes said, "Everyone sees, but few perceive.

Yes, Cadel is wimpy, and boring to watch ... that puts him in a class with about 95% of the rest of the tour riders. He may even make dumb comments, and appear ungrateful that he is on a team in the Tour in the first place. :cry:

BUT, 2nd place out of 145 riders, with NO team support ... I have to respect that performance.

He's a poor sport, thats for sure. The peleton must have some good jokes.

I fnd it amusing that Cadel gets called boring, then in same breath critisised for speaking his mind (and the truth) to the media.


What you do on the bike and what you do in the press are two completely different things. Explosiveness is appreciated in only one of them.

HI... +1 with the penguin. Cadel looks a boring racer but he didnt have a single person to help him (i believe he was #1 in professionals last year), what if he had joined forces with menchov and vdv to survive all together ? (just Dreaming) What I notice from old tours is that in the past time to time racers from other teams joined forces together, i remember lucho herrera (cafe de colombia) helping Hinault in the mountains because he couldnt get the pace in some attacks, well pretty much back in the day if you didnt want to help hinault your team was off the tour next year but thats another tale i guess.

Bad for cadel, bad for SL that knowing they had a GC winner they arrived with a team that really sucked, bad for mcewan Good for CSC anyways, i dont like sastre because he didnt do a single thing in my opinion but well thats life!! Hope next year gets better, I really miss the fighting and courage of older tours.

Thanks.

"If you don't race, you can't possibly understand the complex tactics and strategies!" ???

well u can understand the whole picture if you dont race. But probably the point is how somebody that havent raced even to go running to the next 7-11 to buy diapers or beer, can't really understand the perspective of how hard it is to race and even win w/o the support of a team or even hung up from the wheel of somebody that is really talented in the mountains. I was a track sprinter, and darn... in the road i was hanging from the buggers when a big slope or a 2 km uphill was comming. Cadel for me is like an all arounder, he can do it all but in the mountains he was just in there hanging because he couldnt do any other thing. Regarding sucking wheel in the flat stages, what else u can do when u have a darn train going 55 km/h pacing?? U can't just go and attack, at those speeds u simply CAN'T do it. And sadly only people that have raced have the picture clear about what is going on or how fast these guys can go.

Understand the strategies is the easy part, the hard part is to understand what the racer is passing thru some times and I'm sure cadel in the mountains suffered so much that i cant even described it. He looked boring i understand but at the oposite we have sastre, pure climber, he didnt do a single thing during the whole tour but just leave it all in the last 4 or 5 kms. Easy? well for a pure climber what he did is normal... well again, i dont like sastre but well, he won what else we can do about it.

THanks.

Carlos Sastre :)

Cadel Evans :cry:

"If you don't race, you can't possibly understand the complex tactics and strategies!" ???

well u can understand the whole picture if you dont race. But probably the point is how somebody that havent raced even to go running to the next 7-11 to buy diapers or beer, can't really understand the perspective of how hard it is to race and even win w/o the support of a team or even hung up from the wheel of somebody that is really talented in the mountains. I was a track sprinter, and darn... in the road i was hanging from the buggers when a big slope or a 2 km uphill was comming. Cadel for me is like an all arounder, he can do it all but in the mountains he was just in there hanging because he couldnt do any other thing. Regarding sucking wheel in the flat stages, what else u can do when u have a darn train going 55 km/h pacing?? U can't just go and attack, at those speeds u simply CAN'T do it. And sadly only people that have raced have the picture clear about what is going on or how fast these guys can go.

Understand the strategies is the easy part, the hard part is to understand what the racer is passing thru some times and I'm sure cadel in the mountains suffered so much that i cant even described it. He looked boring i understand but at the oposite we have sastre, pure climber, he didnt do a single thing during the whole tour but just leave it all in the last 4 or 5 kms. Easy? well for a pure climber what he did is normal... well again, i dont like sastre but well, he won what else we can do about it.

THanks.

Yawn, someone else misses the point.

Im not questioning Cadel's ability as a rider - i can respect him for that. Does it mean I like him? No.

I dislike him because he never attacks and is a arse to the media and his team.

Example: Extremely talented footballer who is a dickhead, sits on the goal line and scores loads of goals - how many people are going to dislike him, not because of his ability, but because hes dull and comes across as an overly arrogant twat - his tactics make sense, as he is scoring goals, but he is boring to watch - remind you of a certain Aussie cyclist.

There is no excuse for rudeness. Ive been absolutley burnt out after hard races and long runs and have never threatened to cut someones head off or punched them for touching my stuffed animal (that sounds a bit dodgy :P) and before someone says "bit u dint ride the tore de french" its relative, a hard century or a fast 60 mile RR probably tires me out as much as a TdF stage tires out Evans, being as he is a pro cyclist and im a engineer who happens to own a bike and a dodgy lycra wardrobe.

it was a nine on one for the whole tour basicly..... cadel might not be able to handle the pressure of the press, i reckon that if cadel had support he would win the tour......i heard rumors that he was going 2 another team.....a russian team with a new name..

sastre also used to help out cadel when he was strarting...buy getting him food and drinks for him

There is no excuse for rudeness. Ive been absolutley burnt out after hard races and long runs and have never threatened to cut someones head off or punched them for touching my stuffed animal (that sounds a bit dodgy :P) and before someone says "bit u dint ride the tore de french" its relative, a hard century or a fast 60 mile RR probably tires me out as much as a TdF stage tires out Evans, being as he is a pro cyclist and im a engineer who happens to own a bike and a dodgy lycra wardrobe.

for starters The rudness was from the reporter who attempted to restrain cadel from walking away. Not to mention that there are other reasons high profile people need protection- like sabotage. If russell crow was there I'd bet he would have hit that guy with a phone!! Cadel boring- not anymore. Its the guys who get caught for drug cheating that are boring

McEwen gets a pass because, well, the dude backed up the talk. Guy was vicious in a sprint.



Being talented is no excuse for being an ***.

I do think Evan's highly strung personality, extreme sensitivity and paper-thin mental toughness contributed to his poor time trial. These character traits burn up a lot of energy, and I think this may have proved the difference between him winning and finishing 2nd.

However, much of his behaviour is simply inexcusable. He is not a youngster, but a veteran approaching the end of his career and should know better. I also agree with others about his motorhome, bodyguard and entourage - it's a shame his results don't match his ego. In my opinion he is a spoilt 3 year old in a squeaky voiced man's body.

I do think Evan's highly strung personality, extreme sensitivity and paper-thin mental toughness contributed to his poor time trial. These character traits burn up a lot of energy, and I think this may have proved the difference between him winning and finishing 2nd.

Thank you for those valuable insights Dr Freud.:rolleyes:

I do think Evan's highly strung personality, extreme sensitivity and paper-thin mental toughness contributed to his poor time trial. These character traits burn up a lot of energy, and I think this may have proved the difference between him winning and finishing 2nd.

However, much of his behaviour is simply inexcusable. He is not a youngster, but a veteran approaching the end of his career and should know better. I also agree with others about his motorhome, bodyguard and entourage - it's a shame his results don't match his ego. In my opinion he is a spoilt 3 year old in a squeaky voiced man's body.

Paper thin mental toughness?? That's laughable! 4 tours, top ten in all of them and second in 2. Yeah, no capacity to perform as an athlete there?? I wouldn't exactly call him at the end of his career, he'll ride another 4 tour's easily. He's only just hit his stride as a cyclist in the last couple of years. You need to watch all his interviews, then you would realise that he's hardly egotistical.
Having a motorhome and bodyguard that are suplied by your team (the entourage you speak of, some refer to them as family and friends, but I guess you don't know much about, sucks to be you I guess) not yourself (you can garrantee it wasn't his idea), just means your team want you to focus on the task at hand. Its all good and well for you to comment on someones mental resolve from your PC on a forum, but to call a twice runner up, 4 time top 10 finisher of the biggest annual sporting event in the world "a spoilt 3 year old" and then comment on the pitch of his voice as if that means anything says alot more about you and your intilectual deficiencies as a cyclist and person than it could ever reflect on him.:rolleyes:

Paper thin mental toughness?? That's laughable! 4 tours, top ten in all of them and second in 2. Yeah, no capacity to perform as an athlete there?? I wouldn't exactly call him at the end of his career, he'll ride another 4 tour's easily. He's only just hit his stride as a cyclist in the last couple of years. You need to watch all his interviews, then you would realise that he's hardly egotistical. Having a motorhome and bodyguard that are suplied by your team (the entourage you speak of, some refer to them as family and friends, but I guess you don't know much about, sucks to be you I guess) not yourself (you can garrantee it wasn't his idea), just means your team want you to focus on the task at hand. Its all good and well for you to comment on someones mental resolve from your PC on a forum, but to call a twice runner up, 4 time top 10 finisher of the biggest annual sporting event in the world "a spoilt 3 year old" and then comment on the pitch of his voice as if that means anything says alot more about you and your intilectual deficiencies as a cyclist and person than it could ever reflect on him.:rolleyes:Why don't we all just end the discussion once and for all by asking Cadel himself whether he's satisfied with his performance, and whether he feels that he showed up when he needed to.* Matt and Rusty, look up his number in your rolodex and give him a ring.* Let us know the answer.

I'm pretty sure Evans is clean (because of his suck hind tit performance). Nice effort, anyway. The other guy, well, super human performance for sure. Oh, and nice job not being in yellow until the last week. Fewer drug tests that way.