# Training & Nutrition - Is it just simple math?

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View Full Version : Is it just simple math?

buddy
07-28-08, 09:11 AM
I have been working my tail off and logging every grain of food I eat and I am not losing weight.

I am 52 years old, my weight is 230 lbs, and my BMI is 34 making me obese. I have lost about 10 lbs since I have gotten serious with trying to lose weight but for the past two weeks I have just been maintaining my weight.

On weekdays I ride my bike on a trainer every day for about one hour and long mileage rides on the weekends. I am training for some long rides events this fall.

The average calories I burned is around 3800 calories a day. I eat about 1300 calories a day. I log everything to FitDay.

As I said earlier I am training for two long distances (200K) rides latter this year. During the week I am doing a combination of interval training and base riding. On the weekends I am just riding with both groups and by myself. I am training around 10 hours a week.

I know I need to lose weight and my goal weight is 175 lbs.

It would appear to me that the weight should just be falling off but it is not.

buddy

kuan
07-28-08, 09:30 AM
A few conjectures:

That one hour on the trainer is not burning as much as you think because you are not moving. Also, I don't think RMR calculations account for the fat percentage. I think it assumes a "normal" human, thus, if you're entering your weight as 230, a generic RMR calculator might think you're carrying only 40lbs of fat.

The initial weight comes off fast because you're burning a lot of glycogen, and with every gram of glycogen comes four grams of water.

Also also, 1300 calories seems a little low. It might be that your body is going into starvation mode.

Smallguy
07-28-08, 09:57 AM

I just plugged in my own numbers and at 220 and a goal weight of 200 with an middle of the road lifestyle for activity I should eat 1900 cals (roughly) I would say slowly increase your calories to around 1900-2000 then see if your loosing and reduce by 100 until your not loosing 1-2 lbs a week. if you have to much of a drop your risking burning muscle which ofcourse is counter productive because 1lb of lean mass burns mroe claories than 1lb of fat.

here is the link I used

http://www.calorie-count.com/calories/help.php?id=25

the key to rember is you did not pack on the puonds overnight so don;t expect em to come off overnight either

Moskau
07-28-08, 11:19 AM
I second that it looks like you're not eating enough.

I'm also working on losing weight and recently my weight plateued for a while which coincided with me eating less per day while I was exercising more. I also started feeling hungry all the time and I just felt wrong. Then I increased the amount of food I ate and lost weight in the process. I also feel much better now.

I think 1300 is pretty low even if you weren't exercising at all. I second Smallguy, slowly increase how much you eat and look into how it affects you. I know that tweaking my diet from day to day has helped me a lot to find a better balance and what works for me.

peiffer83
07-28-08, 11:28 AM
Also also, 1300 calories seems a little low. It might be that your body is going into starvation mode.

+1

Your body is holding on to everything you take in since its starving. With as much activity your doing you should be taking in more calories. Take a look at my excel sheet. Put your numbers in. It should help. Plug in your weight, height ", age, and activity level. You should also be eating freaquently thoughout the day. Around 5-6 meals. So lets say my excel says take in 2500 calories a day, you should eat 5 meals consisting of 500 calories. The more often you eat your metabolism will speed up.

Oh and ladies this has a sheet for you too.

PS. I lost 40lbs over a year, it wasnt quick at all. Now I take in around 3000 calories a day, and dont gain a lb.

MrCrassic
07-28-08, 12:37 PM
1300 calories is low for just about anyone. Do you normally feel tired? Is your performance on the bike going down?

One thing that I do know is that your intake should exceed, at the very least, your basal rate (i.e. the number of calories needed to survive). I can't suggest a number for you, since I'm not a physician, but you should definitely eat more and see if that does anything.

TurboTurtle
07-28-08, 01:20 PM
I have been working my tail off and logging every grain of food I eat and I am not losing weight.

I am 52 years old, my weight is 230 lbs, and my BMI is 34 making me obese. I have lost about 10 lbs since I have gotten serious with trying to lose weight but for the past two weeks I have just been maintaining my weight.

On weekdays I ride my bike on a trainer every day for about one hour and long mileage rides on the weekends. I am training for some long rides events this fall.

The average calories I burned is around 3800 calories a day. I eat about 1300 calories a day. I log everything to FitDay.

As I said earlier I am training for two long distances (200K) rides latter this year. During the week I am doing a combination of interval training and base riding. On the weekends I am just riding with both groups and by myself. I am training around 10 hours a week.

I know I need to lose weight and my goal weight is 175 lbs.

It would appear to me that the weight should just be falling off but it is not.

buddy

Something is wrong here. You are accurately weighing every ingredient in what you prepare and everything that you eat and are only taking in 1300 Cal/day? Can you give us a 1 day typical example? - TF

buddy
07-28-08, 03:08 PM
Something is wrong here. You are accurately weighing every ingredient in what you prepare and everything that you eat and are only taking in 1300 Cal/day? Can you give us a 1 day typical example? - TF

This is what I ate on this Sunday I also rode 31 miles average speed was 14.90 ave heart rate was 143 bpm time was 2:08.

Breakfast:

1.5 eggs large eggs scrambled (I did not use any milk in the eggs and I used PAM to scramble the eggs)

Lunch (We ate out)

1 green salad with typical veggies used lemon juice for dressing
2 cups of roasted chicken (did not eat skin)
1/4 cup of mashed potatoes (in reality it was just a couple of bites)
1 piece of white bread (I typically hate white bread but I was at a restaurant)

Rode bike around 3:00 PM
During the ride 1 GU GEL
Hydrated with water
After I finished the ride I ate ¼ cup of salted dry roasted peanuts

Supper:
Large bowl of watermelon about three cups.

According to FitDay my calories intake was 1423 (37% fat, 32% carbs, 31% protein) while according to FitDay my calories burned was 4131 (Basal 2033, Lifestyle 833 and Activity 1265).

For my activity I am using “Bicycling, 12-13.9 mph, leisure, moderate effort” I was riding into a real stiff wind (about 15 mph wind in an open area) with the wind I did not consider it a "moderate effort" but...

buddy

-Devil-
07-28-08, 03:19 PM
your wanting to end up with a calorie difference of 400 to 600 ...

so you have to take your calories that are burned for the day ... (just from waking up and resting, and from activities) ... and then consume slightly less then that ...

anything over a 1k difference in the neg range .. and your body starts to conserve everything it can.

one of the biggest things that most people do ... they will watch their calorie intake .. but not adjust it to match with their activity level .. and end up with to large of a difference ... or they will over compensate .. and consume more then they used that day.

buddy
07-28-08, 03:26 PM
1300 calories is low for just about anyone. Do you normally feel tired? Is your performance on the bike going down?

One thing that I do know is that your intake should exceed, at the very least, your basal rate (i.e. the number of calories needed to survive). I can't suggest a number for you, since I'm not a physician, but you should definitely eat more and see if that does anything.

On days that I plan on riding a lot miles I will increase my calorie intake. This past Saturday I rode 60 miles my calorie intake was 2290 with the majority of those calories from carbs.

During the week I feel great. Saturday I did get tired and coasted in I could not keep up with the group I was with. I attributed that to the rolling hills and not being use to climbing.

buddy

TurboTurtle
07-28-08, 04:16 PM
This is what I ate on this Sunday I also rode 31 miles average speed was 14.90 ave heart rate was 143 bpm time was 2:08.

Breakfast:

1.5 eggs large eggs scrambled (I did not use any milk in the eggs and I used PAM to scramble the eggs)

Lunch (We ate out)

1 green salad with typical veggies used lemon juice for dressing
2 cups of roasted chicken (did not eat skin)
1/4 cup of mashed potatoes (in reality it was just a couple of bites)
1 piece of white bread (I typically hate white bread but I was at a restaurant)

Rode bike around 3:00 PM
During the ride 1 GU GEL
Hydrated with water
After I finished the ride I ate ¼ cup of salted dry roasted peanuts

Supper:
Large bowl of watermelon about three cups.

According to FitDay my calories intake was 1423 (37% fat, 32% carbs, 31% protein) while according to FitDay my calories burned was 4131 (Basal 2033, Lifestyle 833 and Activity 1265).

For my activity I am using “Bicycling, 12-13.9 mph, leisure, moderate effort” I was riding into a real stiff wind (about 15 mph wind in an open area) with the wind I did not consider it a "moderate effort" but...

buddy

I don't know how you can function. Bicycling is way high on their estimates (my spreadsheet would give you 707 Cal), but that does change the over 2000 Cal deficit. - TF

-Devil-
07-28-08, 04:18 PM
you also have to sustain some consistency with the calorie intake ... long enough for your body to adjust to not having to be in 'conserve' mode all the time .. it isn't something you can just boost up on a ride that is longer then drop back down to the 1000 to 1300 range the next day ...

Machka
07-28-08, 07:36 PM
I highly doubt you are burning 3800 calories a day riding your bicycle one hour a day!!! I could see maybe 2800, taking your weight into consideration, but not 3800.

Try adding a different exercise into the mix ... like walking for 30-60 minutes at lunch, and weight lifting after your daily ride.

buddy
07-28-08, 08:35 PM
I highly doubt you are burning 3800 calories a day riding your bicycle one hour a day!!! I could see maybe 2800, taking your weight into consideration, but not 3800.

Try adding a different exercise into the mix ... like walking for 30-60 minutes at lunch, and weight lifting after your daily ride.

That number is a week average with me riding about 90 miles over the weekend.

But that is the frustrating thing is trying to determine what is the proper number to use for calories burned. My Garmin way overestimates the calories, it appears that FitDay also overestimates. To try to get a more accurate number I am now using the "Bicycling, 12-13.9 mph, leisure, moderate effort" level to try to get a more realistic number.

buddy

Machka
07-28-08, 08:43 PM
That number is a week average with me riding about 90 miles over the weekend.

But that is the frustrating thing is trying to determine what is the proper number to use for calories burned. My Garmin way overestimates the calories, it appears that FitDay also overestimates. To try to get a more accurate number I am now using the "Bicycling, 12-13.9 mph, leisure, moderate effort" level to try to get a more realistic number.

buddy

1) Enter your weight as either your goal weight, or a number on the way to your goal weight. For example, you're 230 now and you want to be 175 ... so enter 200 for now, and when you get closer to 200, change it to 175.

2) Go with the lowest "calories burned" calculation you come across. If you go to my site (see signature line) and click on Links on the left, then scroll down a bit, I've got a collection of links to calorie counting sites. Experiment with them (using the lower weight number as mentioned above) and pick the one that gives you the lowest "calories burned" number.

kuan
07-29-08, 06:05 AM
1) Enter your weight as either your goal weight, or a number on the way to your goal weight. For example, you're 230 now and you want to be 175 ... so enter 200 for now, and when you get closer to 200, change it to 175.

2) Go with the lowest "calories burned" calculation you come across. If you go to my site (see signature line) and click on Links on the left, then scroll down a bit, I've got a collection of links to calorie counting sites. Experiment with them (using the lower weight number as mentioned above) and pick the one that gives you the lowest "calories burned" number.

Right. Those calculators on the net and on your Garmin assume that you're 225lbs and 20% fat or something like that. This means it's also calculating your RMR based on muscle you don't have, and we all know muscle burns calories, not fat. ;) Actually it still takes calories to keep fat "alive" but you get what I mean.

Still, 1300 calories a day is kinda low.

couchman
07-29-08, 06:54 AM
This is what I ate on this Sunday I also rode 31 miles average speed was 14.90 ave heart rate was 143 bpm time was 2:08.

Breakfast:

1.5 eggs large eggs scrambled (I did not use any milk in the eggs and I used PAM to scramble the eggs)

Lunch (We ate out)

1 green salad with typical veggies used lemon juice for dressing
2 cups of roasted chicken (did not eat skin)
1/4 cup of mashed potatoes (in reality it was just a couple of bites)
1 piece of white bread (I typically hate white bread but I was at a restaurant)

Rode bike around 3:00 PM
During the ride 1 GU GEL
Hydrated with water
After I finished the ride I ate ¼ cup of salted dry roasted peanuts

Supper:
Large bowl of watermelon about three cups.

According to FitDay my calories intake was 1423 (37% fat, 32% carbs, 31% protein) while according to FitDay my calories burned was 4131 (Basal 2033, Lifestyle 833 and Activity 1265).

For my activity I am using “Bicycling, 12-13.9 mph, leisure, moderate effort” I was riding into a real stiff wind (about 15 mph wind in an open area) with the wind I did not consider it a "moderate effort" but...

buddy

Breakfast:
Eat more to start the day. Double or triple the eggs (bonus points - skip the yellows and use egg whites or beaters). Toss the Pam out and get a no stick fry pan. Add some zero percent milk and a bit of spice. Basil or orengino or something. Add some fruit and maybe some low fat yogurt. Go with at lest an apple or half a grapefruit.

As others have said, a few more cal's during the day. Try and spread them out. Healthy snacks.

Skip the gel. Wasted money right now. Again, eat an apple or something.

Just watermellon for dinner! yikes. Have bowl of low fat yogurt or something.
Keep the system juice by adding in a wee bit of other stuff a couple of times a day. a Set of pushups here, a round or two of squats there.

DeweyJuice
07-29-08, 09:21 AM
Could you have gained some muscle weight?

buddy
07-29-08, 03:32 PM
+1

Your body is holding on to everything you take in since its starving. With as much activity your doing you should be taking in more calories. Take a look at my excel sheet. Put your numbers in. It should help. Plug in your weight, height ", age, and activity level. You should also be eating freaquently thoughout the day. Around 5-6 meals. So lets say my excel says take in 2500 calories a day, you should eat 5 meals consisting of 500 calories. The more often you eat your metabolism will speed up.

Oh and ladies this has a sheet for you too.

PS. I lost 40lbs over a year, it wasnt quick at all. Now I take in around 3000 calories a day, and dont gain a lb.

buddy

buddy
07-29-08, 04:15 PM
Thanks, for all the great information that you guys have given me. It has been helpful. I am really taking it to heart and trying to eat smarter.

This morning for breakfast I had:

1/2 cup of Oatmeal
1.5 cups of skin milk
Cup of blueberries
1/4 cup of pecans

Lunch:
Chicken and lettuce salad (lemon juice for dressing)

When I get home from work I will probably eat fruit as a snack and go ride my bike on the trainer. I am not sure what wonderful food my wife has for me this evening for super but I know it will be great. My plan is to eat over 2000 calories in the right partition.

If I could give any of you younger guys some advice it would be don’t stop riding. When I was in college and first married I love to ride my bike. When my wife and I had our first child we put a child seat on my bike and got a little bike helmet for our daughter and took off riding. But something happened and I did not ride my bike for over 15 years, don’t know why it just happened. We got rid of our bikes and I thought I would never ride again. But one day I was at a Boy Scout meeting with my son and they were planning a 25-mile bike ride and I thought that would be cool to do. I bought a cheap mountain bike from Wal-Mart and went on a 25-mile ride with my son and the boy scouts I thought I was going to die but I made it and I loved it. Since that 25-mile bike ride three years ago I have not stop riding it is like I have re-found an old friend. So, my advice to you younger guys is “Don’t stop peddling.”

Again, thanks for all of the valuable information you have given me.

buddy

Machka
07-29-08, 05:30 PM
Could you have gained some muscle weight?

No ... that's another weight loss fallacy like "it's your thyroid".

-Devil-
07-29-08, 05:32 PM
No ... that's another weight loss fallacy like "it's your thyroid".
to gain muscle weight, you have to have the calorie intake to support the growth .. plus cover what you are burning on a daily basis ...

sounds like he's got it figured out, or at least on the right track now ...

howsteepisit
08-04-08, 12:51 PM

I just plugged in my own numbers and at 220 and a goal weight of 200 with an middle of the road lifestyle for activity I should eat 1900 cals (roughly) I would say slowly increase your calories to around 1900-2000 then see if your loosing and reduce by 100 until your not loosing 1-2 lbs a week. if you have to much of a drop your risking burning muscle which ofcourse is counter productive because 1lb of lean mass burns mroe claories than 1lb of fat.

here is the link I used

http://www.calorie-count.com/calories/help.php?id=25

the key to rember is you did not pack on the puonds overnight so don;t expect em to come off overnight either

I am curious here, If calories in = calories out, how can the starvation mode and not eating enough theory exist?

-Devil-
08-04-08, 01:12 PM
starvation mode .. is when you are burning way more then you are taking in ...

calories in \ calories out is for maintaining a certain weight
calories in - 200 to 500 \ calories out is for loosing weight
calories in + 200 to 500 \ calories out is for gaining weight