Road Cycling - High VS Low RPM question???

Folks: I keep having problems with maintaining speed. I am averaging 18 mph in about a 30 mile ride. I would like to get better than that. I notice that when I spin a lot (about 100 rpms) my speed drops to like 14 to 15 and I start to get tired :mad: quick. In order for me keep speed I need to ride in high gears all the time. My friends always tell me that I need to stay with high rpms even if I drop speed. I don't like to be left behind the pack. What Can I do? I'd hate to be left by the pack. Please help I am frustated with that :mad:

I ride in whats comfortable to me. My son was riding on the big ring, and i finally had to put a sprint on him to show him once his gears are gone then he will definately be left behind. Ride your bike and stay in a gear thats comfortable to you. I have a 9 speed triple, I usually stay on the second ring and the mid of my cluster, that way i can shift either way if needed. i dont use cadence tho many say its a must, But I can assure you with my riding style (comfort) I can ride faster and longer than guys worrying about their cadence

I maintain my cadence at about 90~95rpm.
What is your gearing?

Spinning at 100rpm or more will make you breathe faster.. But it will save your knees. Anyway, try maintaining 85~90rpm first on the flats. And build from there. And practice your spinning.. In a couple of weeks, you'll be spinning 95rpm w/o knowing it.

I usually reserve my 100rpm spins on ascents.

remember when spinning, take deep breathes in rythm with your spinning.. The timing is up to you. It usually take one breathe every two cycles. :)

learn to spin higher RPMs in bigger gears?

i found out today that i can maintain a pretty good speed while spinning high RPMs, and i use less energy than if i'm mashing a higher gear...the way i see it, if i can get to the point where i can spin in the big ring (48T for me) in a decent cog size (14 or 15) i will go faster and carry a lot more speed.

it's all about conditioning, really. just gradually make the gearing harder and harder. if you feel like it's a little too easy as you're spinning, kick it into the next highest gear and maintain your cadence. when you get to the end of the cluster, switch to the big ring, and slam the cluster over to the big-end, and do it all over again. you gotta work for your speed.

maybe try riding a fixed gear bike for a while to develop a really tight spin. you can start out with a really easy gearing, like 44/16, and gradually work your way up to something like 49/17 or even harder. it'll help a lot, believe me.

editted to add this: i don't have a cyclo computer, so i couldn't say what my cadence is, or what my exact speed was, but i know that i was giving some cars a good run for their money in a 38/15. maybe some day i'll give in and get a cycling computer...then i'll know...for now though, i don't really think it's necessary. if i'm breathing hard and my legs feel like jell-o, i'm having fun.

you just have to push bigger gears until you get the strength to spin em

Well, for me, I try to stay anywhere around 80 to 100 rpms on a normal ride.

When i'm trying to accelerate away from my friends, i will bring my cadence up to 105 or so before i shift up one cog. Anymore and I usually start pedaling squares instead of smoothly. I can usually pedal to a max of 125 or so before i can't pedal smoothly anymore. I am in the big ring usually when i do this. This way i find that i keep on accelerating with no bogging in between shifts.

Anyway, it's important that you go faster by pedaling a faster cadence, not by shifting to a bigger gear (and presumably pedaling slower).

Thank you for the tips you've given me. I just feel like a get tired quicker with low gears. I will try to work for my speed as you mentioned. I cant wait to go back again and try your technnique. It's very windy downhere in florida. I ride near the beach the wind is a killer. The problem I have is that I worry too much about speed and not pedaling form. I need to work on that. Thank you guys.

there's something to be said for spinning somewhere above 150rpm. it's fun.

don't rely so much on readings from computers. just don't pay attention to it. be more aware of what your body is doing. if your legs are feeling like they're working too hard, ease up a bit: either shift to an easier gear, or slow down a little, or bump up to a harder gear and apply less force. know your body, know your limits, and just have fun.

The problem I have is that I worry too much about speed and not pedaling form. I need to work on that. Thank you guys.


HEELS DOWN!!!! :) push at the top of the stroke, and pull at the bottom of the stroke. better pedaling form will get your speed up. it sounds confusing, but after a while, you'll be able to do it without even thinking about it.

fixed gear riding with clipless pedals will help...a lot.

fixed gear riding with clipless pedals will help...a lot.


dropping off the back a lap into a 20 lap scratch race on the track after realizing you're ridiculously undergeared is better.

holy crap, that sentence sucked.

Yeah. Just remember that a fast pedal cadence works your heart out, and also i think it requires more oxygen. A low cadence where you're mashing is more about muscle strength.

I think you just need to get used to it. Maybe you should look into getting a stationary trainer. Mine really helped boost my cadence up.

IMHO you need to work on getting your RPMs up.

Perhaps on one ride you mash so you can stay with the pack longer and on another ride you spin and get dropped.

The reason you are getting dropped when you spin is your system cannot handle the extra arobic requirements. Simply put you run out of breath and get tired "arobically". Currently you mash and you find that your upper body is probably OK but that after the ride your legs are in a lot of muscular pain due to lactic acid build up. You also probably find that if the pack "takes off fast" that you cannot gear-mash to stay with them... Or at times when you are gear-mashing that you feel fine but you just cannot seem to tell your legs to mash harder (they have hit the wall).

A newbie and I rode once a while back... About two years now. He use to ride a hybrid and just got his road bike to try it out. I told him that he was spinning too slow and needed to increase his cadence. He told me later that for the next month he cursed me over and over because of the suffering he went through to get his leg speed up instead of mashing...

Now he is often right next to me trying to take me on the large costal bridges... I can still fend him off but many times he is right on my wheel!

Only a fully trained Jedi Knight with the
Force as his ally will conquer

dropping off the back a lap into a 20 lap scratch race on the track after realizing you're ridiculously undergeared is better.

holy crap, that sentence sucked.


i'm...not really sure what you mean...maybe it's the sentence...

i wasn't saying he should RACE on a fixed gear...just ride it around on the road and whatnot. for fun.

Thank you for the tips you've given me. I just feel like a get tired quicker with low gears. I will try to work for my speed as you mentioned. I cant wait to go back again and try your technnique. It's very windy downhere in florida. I ride near the beach the wind is a killer. The problem I have is that I worry too much about speed and not pedaling form. I need to work on that. Thank you guys.
I dont know where you live in Florida, but on the gulf coast there is some great trails, 20 plus miles non stop, great place to work on pace...

Sounds like you have a low aerobic capacity at the moment thus you go into oxygen debt quickly when you spin fast. Bring up your aerobic capacity. You can do this anyway you want (ie anything that gets you breathing hard and your heart rate up). Mashing pedals is anerobic thus someone who's strong but less aerobically (is that a word) inclined can get away with this (think of Jan Ulric). The basic rule I go by is if I can't breathe, push a bigger gear (go anerobic), if I can't push, pedal faster (go aerobic), if both hurt go faster ;)

PS get a fixie!!

i'm...not really sure what you mean...maybe it's the sentence...

i wasn't saying he should RACE on a fixed gear...just ride it around on the road and whatnot. for fun.

you said that a good way to increase one's cadence is to ride fixed.

i took that one step further and jokingly said that if one wanted to learn to spin, they could start a fast-paced track race while undergeared, as i did last season.

regardless, i don't believe riding fixed is a direct path towards higher cadences. i'm currently geared awfully low (42x16) for the winter and i rarely find myself above 80rpm. what i do believe riding fixed does is make the legs a lot more supple, which is essential to spinning a high cadence.

but you know, i could be completely wrong.

Preston and Pinky are right. You're out of shape. (we've all been there)When you get in shape you will realize that when you spin a higher cadence you actually stay fresher. And you will have more snap or jump in your legs at the end of the ride. It's hard to keep the cadence up, but just keep at it. When I got back on the bike after a 5 year stint of ZERO physical activity, I had to grind away @ 80 rpm and use leg strength just to get by.

We have a guy on one of our group rides, he is in great shape, (a squad leader in the Ranger Batallion) but chooses to pedal at about 45 rpm, no lie.. after 30 miles his legs are too tired to sprint. It frustrated him, because he thought he was in great shape, and he is, but he just wore his legs out mashing that big gear.

you said that a good way to increase one's cadence is to ride fixed.

i took that one step further and jokingly said that if one wanted to learn to spin, they could start a fast-paced track race while undergeared, as i did last season.

regardless, i don't believe riding fixed is a direct path towards higher cadences. i'm currently geared awfully low (42x16) for the winter and i rarely find myself above 80rpm. what i do believe riding fixed does is make the legs a lot more supple, which is essential to spinning a high cadence.

but you know, i could be completely wrong.


i think the best thing fixed gear riding does for cadence is show you what perfect circles are, and helps smooth them out. after a decent amount of time riding around town, doing errands, going for long cruises late at night, your legs will remember what to do when you hop on the road bike. i always feel a bit akward when i switch back to a coasting bike, mostly because i'm used to being able to slow down using my legs.

my first "big person's bike" was a lotus road bike that i converted first to single speed, then to fixed gear. i rode fixed for about three years before finally getting a road bike. i still feel akward on it, and it's definitely not the first bike i reach for when i'm going somewhere...but i usually manage to have fun on it.

when i ride my road bike i hardly ever stop pedaling. it's just so natural for me, and i genuinely feel strange coasting. i think that's made me a stronger cyclist. i love that every time i go out on it, i learn something new about myself and how to handle different situations...i have a hard time with hills usually...and i think that's due to my frequent gear mashing...i think next time i go out to tackle some hills i'll spin the whole time, i seem to have a pretty good capacity for that. :)

I've been doing high (for me) cadence exercises on my rides lately... It's a little frustrating, getting passed by all kinds of people pushing bigger gears up the hill, and me panting away in a little weenie gear, but I know that come springtime I'll be in better shape for it.

Just a matter of grabbing my sack and swallowing my pride, I guess. (Not, mind you, that I'm particularly strong at pushing a big gear, either! But I think that that'll come when I have more aerobic strength as a base.)

I've been doing high (for me) cadence exercises on my rides lately... It's a little frustrating, getting passed by all kinds of people pushing bigger gears up the hill, and me panting away in a little weenie gear, but I know that come springtime I'll be in better shape for it.

Just a matter of grabbing my sack and swallowing my pride, I guess. (Not, mind you, that I'm particularly strong at pushing a big gear, either! But I think that that'll come when I have more aerobic strength as a base.)


oh wow!! you live in oakland!? i live in berkeley!! i mostly ride either around lake merit or lately down by the marina. if you see a punky looking kid wearing cuffed dickies, a sweatshirt and/or a jean jacket, wearing a black and red messenger bag riding a purple and chrome pinarello with black 105 and bullhorns, that's me! i haven't been getting out very often, but that's mostly because i'm new here and don't know very many people. if you're into riding with non-traditional style roadies, drop me a PM.

(i now return you to your regularily scheduled cadence thread).

Well 100 rpm is pretty high. I do that but then again, I am a spinner. For most people, anything over 90 is fine. Gregg Lemond liked to push big gears and he ran in the low 80s. Lance Armstrong runs over 100.

The thing is that when people start out, they tend to run about 70. It takes time to develop an efficient spin.

I don't think it is all about being in poor aerobic shape either. I believe your leg muscles take time to adapt to that high speed spinning. It just takes some time to work it in. I would suggest you keep at it.

I wonder though. You said that you can only go about 14-15 mph while spinning 100 rpm. That would be just about your lowest gear on must double chain ring settings. It seems to me that you might be using a bit of hyperbole here.

I wonder though. You said that you can only go about 14-15 mph while spinning 100 rpm. That would be just about your lowest gear on must double chain ring settings. It seems to me that you might be using a bit of hyperbole here.

I was thinking that too.

I have a 52-42T ~ 12-23T, and at 42~23T @ 90~100rpm it is about that speed (20-24kmh).

every single response has been right on. william, you are getting the best BF has to offer right here on your thread.

2 seasons ago i rode 18mph over 30miles and was told the same thing. it took me almost 2 seasons to buy into the program of spinning. it really begins off the bike with leg work (off season to us people up north)

in the simplest of terms, you have the speed.....now you need the power.

forget the mph. let it go. a good cyclist isn't one who can go the fastest, its the one who can go the fastest the longest. interval work will help you. a good program that focuses on HR and target zones.

i used to be you. pushing 18mph over 30 miles and knocking my head against the wall trying to push past it. i didn't start to get faster/longer till i backed off and worked my HR so i can recover faster.

ex: you are riding in a fast group. you're going 18mph, but your HR monitor says you are @ 175, at or above your lactate threshold. how much longer can you hold that before the lactic acid rushes in and takes over your legs? 1 minute? 2 minutes? then what. you blow up...thats what. thats why you need to train below that HR point and do intervals to promote recovery.

and you need the power to sustain a higher gearing at your magical 90 rpm cadence, or even higher. again, thats where interval training comes in.

forget the mph. concentrate on your rides within a ride.
overall your mph will be lower, but you will go faster.

Keep it more between 90-95,when it goes up,shift.

There are two examples of cadence M.Indurain and L. Armstrong and neither should be copied blindly because they are at the extremes , very slow and very fast . That worked for them with their bodies but they are both freaks ( normal people don´t win le Tour five times) so what you need is something inbetween that suits you , too slow and you damage muscle tissue , stress joints and ligaments etc , too fast and your body uses too much oxygen for the output generated ( slow = 50 , fast = 110 + )
For most people this adapts to about 70 rpm on the steep climbs and about 90 - 100 on the flat , but everybody is different and there are no rules , you have to work it out yourself from experience , just don´t copy blindly .

Thanks, el Inglés, for bringing a voice of reason.


You're out of shape.
I dunno. I'm thinking if 1/2 of that FL ride is into the wind, managing an 18 mph average for a 30 mile ride isn't too shabby.

He's either the incredible hulk, or his cadence isn't grossly low... maybe riding in a 1 cog higher gear than his partners... no biggie, it appears to work okay.

William, just how slow is your cadence? If you want to work on it, just spend some time riding in what seems like one gear too low from time to time... just enough that you have to concentrate to keep your pace up. In my opinion, the worst thing to do is to fixate on cadence, ankling, and all that. I think what el Inglés is getting at is that everyone has a natural rhythm. You have to listen to your body, try some stuff, see what works for you.

He did say he was getting tired @ 14mph.


You will also find that it is easier to spin into a headwind than to try and grind it out. Speaking of headwind, we had like 30 mph winds up high here yesterday, I went a did a couple of rides over our Bridge that links Savannah and South Carolina. Our bridge isnt steep, but it is long, over a km to the top. That headwind almost had me at a standstill. It was pretty wild. There was a guy walking over it, we looked at each other like "wtf are you doing up here" I was working out, I think he was headed to the Nudie Bars.

Ah, the wind. Last year I found that the only way to make it for long distances into a headwind was to spin faster and stay within my abilities..i.e. sit back and enjoy it cause otherwise I'm gonna just blow up. The result is slowly creeping into the rest of my ride. Subconsciously or not, I'm using a higher cadence nearly all the time, and slowly increasing the gear.

You will also find that it is easier to spin into a headwind than to try and grind it out.
No argument. If I sound grumpy, it's just PMS (Prevented Miles Syndrome)... caused by precipitation, cold temperatures, short days, and too much time on the trainer. Right now, I'd be sooo happy if I could just go for a real ride (even with 30 mph winds). :cry:

... It's a little frustrating, getting passed by all kinds of people pushing bigger gears up the hill...

This used to bug me too, until last year when I was riding one of our biggest local climbs (admiditly not a huge mountainous climb, but a good 4km climb). These two punks from the local club passed me about 1/4 the way up and I just kept plugging in my lower gear at 90rpm. I could hear them yip yapping about passing me and how they were going to pound their way up the climb and drop me (I wasn't even riding with the club). Well, about 3/4 the way up I was right on their tails again and as they were sucking wind for the last 1/4 I was as fresh as a daisy. I politely smiled as I pushed to a higher gear and dusted them over the top :D . Very rewarding feeling.

I find that's what improving my spinning has done for me. As some have said, it keeps you real fresh for when you need to mash later in the ride.

f

Another thread somewhere says for the most part that cadence is a gizmo and mph,ie speed is the thing. Me,i dont even look at mph,i use my cadence and keep it over 90.

Another thread somewhere says for the most part that cadence is a gizmo and mph,ie speed is the thing. Me,i dont even look at mph,i use my cadence and keep it over 90.
I couldn't agree more. Ever since I bought my crappy Cateye Astrale for Cadence three years ago, I've never looked at my speed. Keeping my Cadence between 90-95 has improved my riding each season and allows me to be more powerful when I need to be. All I need to know about speed is that I'm not getting dropped by anyone in my group and fresh enought at the end of a long day to keep the pace higher as we finish. YMMV, but it works for me.

f

Ignore your friends. The "high cadence" thing is being passed off like gospel from "Lance" wannabes and pretenders. The fact that they're pushing you to cycle in a way that slows your down and feels uncomfortable ought to clue you as to their expertise.

Ignore your friends. The "high cadence" thing is being passed off like gospel from "Lance" wannabes and pretenders. The fact that they're pushing you to cycle in a way that slows your down and feels uncomfortable ought to clue you as to their expertise.

Oh, I dunno... I prefer to spin because I'm kind of a wuss...
:) :) :)

A Lance wannabe? Oh sure... Lance: 5'-11", 155 lbs. Me: 5'-11", 150 lbs.

But then again, Lance: A cycling god. Me: A skinny loser sucking wind on a bicycle! :)

(Ignore me... Just havin' a bit of fun!)

I dont have friends so it did'nt come from them.

Train a few sets of spinning in a larger gear and dont forget to reccover.

Drink Guiness and eat raw meat. Then practice, practice , practice. Okay, serious on the second part.

Jim :D

i can see that this thread has deteriorated into idle chatter, but really--> everyone knows that riding 20mph then jumping up to 25 mph requires double the power output. but then how long are you going to sustain that output?

avg'ing 18mph on your own is way different from avg'ing 20 mph in a group. the group jumps and you need to recovered and ready to roll....now. 20 seconds is too late.

perhaps i am overstating this, and i'm sure there are many licking their chops waiting to tell me i am full of it, but with stoplights, etc. avg'ing 18mph is not easy. think about every time you stop or slow at an intersection how much energy it takes to jump back up to your pace and sustain it again. now add in the jumps of being in a group and the need to be trained to recover quicker (plenty of base miles in a moderate HR)
***this means spinning faster.

what requires more energy:
spinning @100rpm
or
making the ride a quad crunching one (lower rpm)

you tax your endurance while spinning faster, but the energy saved while spinning faster will allow you to cycle stronger when your endurance and power output are highly trained. and that is done with highly efficient spin and power work off the bike.

and the guiness sounds good also.

Its real simple, just watch the guys that do it for a living. They don't grind along at 70rpm