Tandem Cycling - Brake suggestions for tandeming in Tuscany

We are taking our first journey to Tuscany with our tandem in September. We start our tour in San Gimignano, go to Siena and Pienza. We stay a couple of nights in each place and do loops around the towns.
I have been trying to get a handle on what brake configuration would be appropriate for the terrain in that area. We currently use Campagnolo Record brakes and ride a lot of hills. They are relatively short, but steep, maybe 1.5 miles long and up to 14% grades. We have no trouble with brake fade. I have heard that Tuscany has longer and steeper hills. Does anybody have experience with the terrain we will be riding and whether it would be advisable to replace the record in the back with a disc?

Also, has anybody ridden from Orvieto to Lake Bolsena? Looks like about 30-40k. What are the roads like?

Thanks for your advice

We are taking our first journey to Tuscany with our tandem in September. We start our tour in San Gimignano, got to Siena and Pienza. We stay a couple of nights in each place and do loops around the towns.
I have been trying to get a handle on what brake configuration would be appropriate for the terrain in that area. We currently use Campagnolo Record brakes and ride a lot of hills. They are relatively short, but steep, maybe 1.5 miles long and up to 14% grades. We have no trouble with brake fade. I have heard that Tuscany has longer and steeper hills. Does anybody have experience with the terrain we will be riding and whether it would be advisable to replace the record in the back with a disc?

Also, has anybody ridden from Orvieto to Lake Bolsena? Looks like about 30-40k. What are the roads like?

Thanks for your advice
Hi.

We toured Tuscany last year. The disc brake came very handy while doing loaded, steep descents. It also allowed us to keep ridding during rain events that we encounter a couple of afternoons. Even the disc brake was insufficient when descending from Abetone into Lucca.

We did the Orvieto/ Lake Boisena loop. Do not remember the exact milage but we did it as an afternoon ride in which we circled Boisena and came back to Orvieto. The roads were in general in excellent shape. We strongly recommend that you get region specific michelin maps. We came in and got out of Orvieto at least 6 different ways.

If you bike can accommodate it - i'd keep the brakes you have an add a drum with a bar end lever control. For long descents - it's ideal at controlling your speed. I've set up our tandem to accommodate both. I currently use a rear disc, but can use a drum and rear brakes if necessary. I'd opt for that for rides with long descents or when loaded with panniers etc.

hi Joe
Thanks for the advice from both of you. We are actually going on the tour with Vermont Bicycle tours (VBT). They carry all our stuff from one town to the next and act as sag for the riding days. We won't be loaded

Question on the disc brake - I have an Avid mechanical brake with a brake power booster. when I installed it, I still don't get the crisp, instant feel that the Campi brakes give me. Any suggestions, or do I need a lot less pressure on a disc. I have never used a disc before, so this is new territory for me.

Joe, you are probably familiar with our riding terrain. Shingle Springs Placerville, Cool, Georgetown, etc. Long descents. If you want to ride the foothills, PM me.
Clay

Posted on the other thread:

http://www.bikeforums.net/showpost.php?p=7159865&postcount=3

Thanks 72&sunny. That is the area we will be riding. I did purchase a Brake Power Booster. It is a cam type arrangement that increases the leverage and travel of the brake cable. I will play with this and see how it works.

We've done the VBT tour of Tuscany. The riding is hilly, and reasonably steep, but nothing sustained. If your setup works for you on 1.5 mile descents with 14% grade, you'll be fine. You won't see anything more extreme on your tour.

+1 on Merlin's comments. I've been single biking in Tuscany a few times, and the hills are no worse than those in the UK - it's just that there are more of them. If you are happy to ride downhill fast then there should be no problem on Record brakes down the bigger hills.

I found the brakes got most use through steep hilltop towns, where streets often go straight down the hill. No problem with overheating as it's stop-start - you just need to be sure that you will be able to stop. With a little rain and slimy road goo that builds up when it doesn't rain for a while it can become treacherous on any bike. Mostly though it's a skill / confidence thing as panic is what makes most people fall off.

While you sometimes can't avoid hills I also tend not to seek them out without good reason! Best therefore IMHO to plan your routes in advance and build up your confidence on things you know you can do before hitting the biggest baddest hill in the region on a rainy day.

hi Joe
Thanks for the advice from both of you. We are actually going on the tour with Vermont Bicycle tours (VBT). They carry all our stuff from one town to the next and act as sag for the riding days. We won't be loaded

Question on the disc brake - I have an Avid mechanical brake with a brake power booster. when I installed it, I still don't get the crisp, instant feel that the Campi brakes give me. Any suggestions, or do I need a lot less pressure on a disc. I have never used a disc before, so this is new territory for me.

Joe, you are probably familiar with our riding terrain. Shingle Springs Placerville, Cool, Georgetown, etc. Long descents. If you want to ride the foothills, PM me.
Clay

I have the original/older style Avid Disc on our CoMo with the brake booster. In order to get better responsiveness - I installed a longer spring tension adjusting screw which I found at the North West Tandem Rally back in 2005. The new calipers adjust spring tension differently. So I would try and wind up the tension as best as possible. Also you need to mess with the booster a bit to make sure all slack is out of the cable. In all honesty - I'd like to remove mine. My buddy's new Calfee came with the new style caliper and in checking out his tension without the booster - it was very nice.

As for riding in the Foothills - we'll be doing more of that in the upcoming months - always up for a good ride up there.

We've done the VBT tour of Tuscany. The riding is hilly, and reasonably steep, but nothing sustained. If your setup works for you on 1.5 mile descents with 14% grade, you'll be fine. You won't see anything more extreme on your tour.

+1 on these comments.

Just got back from riding there. However it was on folders.

Didn't seem like anything sustained.

Riding the folders down Alpe d'Huez was another story :rolleyes:

Folders are even worse then tandems, due to the wheel RPM vs. ground speed.

I am going to Tuscany with VBT in October. Post a review if you can. We will be bringing our new/old (actually 10 year old but new to us) Bike Friday TwosDay. The prior owner has already added a drag drum brake. They have even added a second chainring in front to add to the rear derailleur and the 3 speed internal hub

One more question on the Avid Disc Brakes. What is the difference between the 203mm road and mountain brake? Is it just the amount of brake lever travel that is required before the pads engage the disc? I'm thinking that the mountain brake lever travels further than a road brake lever before disc/brake contact is made That is the only difference I can come up with. Am I right?

Hi crwindy:
You must be leaving just after us. We depart San Gimignano on 9/29 and finish in Pienza on 10/4. We will try to post along the way.
One fun thing we did was download the VBT Tuscany itinerary. Underline all the little towns you will travel through. Then, go to Google Earth and pinpoint each town. You can then zoom in on each town. As you get closer to the town, blue dots will appear. They are photographs of the town and surrounding areas. Kind of puts you there before you actually begin the tour. If you live in the USA, bring lots of money. The exchange rate is pretty bad.
Hope you have a great experience

It's not so much lever travel as cable pull. Mountain levers pull more cable than road levers do before bottoming on the h'bar. Are you familiar with flat-bar road levers? They travel about as far as mountain levers, but only pull as much cable as drop-bar road levers. The Avid road caliper is designed for actuation with road levers (flat bar or drop bar; you'll know they're road levers if they work properly with name-brand dual-pivot rim brakes). Acquire the disc caliper that is compatible with your brake levers and you'll have no problems.

I'm curious VaultGuru, how you plan on shipping your tandem. Are you taking on the plane or sending it another way. We looked at doing the same trip with VBT but they say you're on you own as far as shipping the bike to the start and then shipping it back after the finish.

JK

Hi jkearch:
We just took delivery of a new Calfee. It has S&S couplers, so I can break it down and put it into two hardshell shipping cases. The cases measure 26"x26"x10", the limit of luggage size. We will not be charged (supposedly) for two pieces of luggage each.We are also taking backpacks to store our personal stuff in. VBT will transport one piece of luggage per client. Once our bike is out and assembled, we plan on putting our backpacks inside the tandem cases. There is only two days of transportation for luggage - San Gimignano to Siena and Siena to Pienza.
If you do decide to take your tandem and it does not break down, it will be a problem. You will have to make arrangements to have the shipping case transported from (perhaps) Florence to Pienza, or even Rome.
They are using Yakima Sidewinder racks for the tandem. I called Yakima. They told me they did not intend for them to be used with carbon fiber frames. Craig Calfee is also nervous about the bottom tube clamp. So, I am planning on bringing my own nylon straps to secure the bottom tube to the Yakima. Also, bring your own front fork stabilizer strap. It is the one that attaches to the handlebars in the vicinity of the brake levers and onto the captain's seatpost.
Also, you should be very comfortable working on your own bike. VBT will not take responsibility for building/disassembling or repairing your bike. They will let you use their tools, however, my recommendation is to be completely self-sufficient. Make sure your wheels are in good shape. Replace any spokes, rims, etc. before leaving. Do the same with the rest of the components. Carry two extra tires. Your tandem size may be hard to come by over there.
Maybe too much information (TMI) but I am trying to think of anything that can go wrong and have a contingency plan for it. If anybody else has input, suggestions, post away
Thanks

What could go wrong? You'll make a wrong turn up a gravel road through a vineyard, up a 18% grade. Rip the back wheel out of the drop outs pounding up the inside of a switchback, folding the rear rim in the process. (think taco.)

Just a hypothetical. I'm sure it can't happen twice.

Contingency plan, call VBT headquarters in Vermont, and get 2 VBT bikes delivered to a local bar within 2 hours.

Plan B, take the front rim off , and relace the back wheel with the front rim, and then, use a wheel off a VBT bike for the front.

Not that I have any expereince with this.

Hi Merlin. Sounds like this is a personal experience. Let me know where the 18 percent gravel road is and I'll avoid it :-)
Love your comments.
C

Riding in and out of Voltara is a joy! The grades weren't 18% as they were on other days, but we walked down some strada bianchi hills for 2-3 km that were simply impossible to ride. Choose your routes well!

Mike