Folding Bikes - Folder as beach bike?

I need a folder due to storage issues, but my LBS does not think it's a very good idea. If I buy one with an internal hub, will it hold up to the salt and sand? The beach I would use it on is very hard packed (Hilton Head Island, S.C.), and the only other place that I'd ride would be on nearly level bike paths in my home town (Petoskey, MI). I have no need to take it on a bus, train, or plane, so some of the issues related to weight, or size when folded, are not all that important to me.

This will be my only bike, so I'd like something that works for both the beach and the bike paths. I'm an older (60), fairly athletic female, who is 5'9" tall (34" inseam), and I like to ride in the upright position (otherwise it hurts my neck). I like the look of the Dahon Glide, but I can't find much feedback on this forum about that particular model. Perhaps it's too expensive for my first folder anyway ($800+). I have no way to "test ride" it (no Dahon folders in stock anywhere near here). Any satisfied customers out there?

Maybe a DownTube 8H would do the trick (at half the price). Has anyone used that bike on the beach successfully without major maintanance issues? I've not owned a bike in 20 years, so I'm not "up" on how to take care of one. The more basic the better for me. I don't need to go fast, I just need a dependable bike that can stay (folded) in the back compartment of my T&C mini-van, so that I can travel with it and NOT have to install a bike rack.

I'll anxiously await your input.

Hi Petoskey, welcome to the forum.

Most beach cruisers are single speed. How would you feel about a single speed bike? Or do you think there are enough hills in your area that having gears is mandatory?

If Single Speed is OK, you might try the inexpensive Dahon Boardwalk S1. For a more upright riding position have your local bike shop help you figure out the best saddle height and perhaps also get you a handlebar that will facilitate that position better.

If gearing is required, the Dahon Glide and Ciao offer a nice relaxed upright position. Yes they are more expensive. Spending the extra money though, gets you some nice features and if you have the dosh, you might as well use it on good equipment. ;)

If price is an issue the Downtube line is great. And the 8H is a fine bike.

As for internal hubs vs. sand, salt and sea. I would think they would do better overall under those conditions than a derailleur bike. There will be less stuff exposed to the elements. That doesn't mean there won't be problems with it... so I suggest giving your new bike (whatever bike that might be) a nice wash here and there to clean off the salt and sand. If you store in your car or indoors most of the time that will also help.

--sam

I need a folder due to storage issues, but my LBS does not think it's a very good idea. If I buy one with an internal hub, will it hold up to the salt and sand? The beach I would use it on is very hard packed (Hilton Head Island, S.C.), and the only other place that I'd ride would be on nearly level bike paths in my home town (Petoskey, MI). I have no need to take it on a bus, train, or plane, so some of the issues related to weight, or size when folded, are not all that important to me.

This will be my only bike, so I'd like something that works for both the beach and the bike paths. I'm an older (60), fairly athletic female, who is 5'9" tall (34" inseam), and I like to ride in the upright position (otherwise it hurts my neck). I like the look of the Dahon Glide, but I can't find much feedback on this forum about that particular model. Perhaps it's too expensive for my first folder anyway ($800+). I have no way to "test ride" it (no Dahon folders in stock anywhere near here). Any satisfied customers out there?

Maybe a DownTube 8H would do the trick (at half the price). Has anyone used that bike on the beach successfully without major maintanance issues? I've not owned a bike in 20 years, so I'm not "up" on how to take care of one. The more basic the better for me. I don't need to go fast, I just need a dependable bike that can stay (folded) in the back compartment of my T&C mini-van, so that I can travel with it and NOT have to install a bike rack.

I'll anxiously await your input.

Your LBS is clueless. Most of us around here harp and argue in search of the holy grail of folders because we still find them lacking, but if the actual bikes on the market could ever fully meet the needs of a customer then it would be you.

The Dahon Boardwalk sounds almost perfect for you. However, because it's steel and you plan on using it in a marine environment you might eventually have problems with rust if you don't get frequent maintenance. Downtubes will probably have the same problem because, despite being having aluminum frames, some of their major parts are also steel.

Based on your description I don't see why you would want to bother with multiple speeds, but if you're willing to consider a multispeed bike then I think your best bet is the Dahon Mariner D7, which is specifically designed to handle marine environments. The online retailer ThorUSA (listed at Dahon.com) receives rave reviews for customer service and the owner is actually a member of this forum. Perhaps he will chime in, but I'm sure he'd be willing to let you return the Mariner if you decided you didn't like it:
http://www.thorusa.com/dahon/2008/marinerd7.htm

Go for the Downtube 8h - great value for the money.

You might also seriously consider the Downtube Mini - I have one (I'm 5'10"). It's a little lighter and smaller when folded, but no worse for performance. However, the smaller wheels would sink deeper into sand so it would have that disadvantage.

Having gearing will just make it that little easier to select a gear that suits best. And you're right about internal hub gears being better for dirty conditions.

And yes, your LBS IS clueless about folding bikes. Having said that, so is almost everybody else.

Now that you are on this sub-forum, if anything at all needs to asked, there will be someone here more than willing to help.

Wow - thanks for the speedy replies! Your ideas make me wonder if it's better to go with the Mariner (no steel parts to rust) or the internal hub models mentioned (Ciao/Glide/DownTube 8H). What's the bigger enemy to the bike - the sand getting in the derailleur, or rust from salt air in general?

Are there any 26" single speed folders that I should consider, like the Dahon Cadenza Solo, perhaps? My biking friends cannot believe that I would consider a bike with 20" wheels, let alone the DownTube "mini". That's why I thought that maybe the Dahon Glide was a good choice (24" wheels), but no one ever talks about them. Is there anyone out there who actually has one? If so, please tell me why you love (or hate) it.

Keep your comments coming, please. I really need the help!

There is a very wide-spread deep-seated general paradigm that ANY bikes with small wheels are either toys, children's bikes or the absolute worst quality.

Happily that is not the case with many makes out there. All you have to do, is re-educate your friends. That won't be easy. The easiest way is to show them.

Check some of the links in my signature, what I have done with my clown bikes. I'm not crazy, just willing to accept that small wheels offer many benefits with small penalties. I'm also willing to ignore general laughter, and listen to kids who say, "Cool bike!"

One of the most addictive aspects of the small wheels is the sheer maneuverability of small-wheeled bikes. Initially this will seem 'twitchy', 'squirrely' or 'unstable', but what it really is, is the light weight of the front wheel which results in a power steering effect. Once you get used to it, take my word for it, a big-wheeled bike will feel like a truck. The small wheels will zip through small spaces and around obstructions. :thumb:

Don't forget to check out the Dahon Vitesse D7HG. Basically a Mariner D7 with a shimano Nexus 7 speed internal hub.

Enjoy.

My biking friends cannot believe that I would consider a bike with 20" wheels, let alone the DownTube "mini".

People who are used to 700c or 26" wheels don't understand. I was one of those people when I bought my first folding bike, so I got one with 26" wheels. It was pyschological. Not only did smaller wheels just look like they'd be slower and harder to deal with, but I didn't want to look like a trained bear.

I now tow a double child trailer 28 miles/day with a 20"-wheel folding bike (a Xootr Swift). I had an internal hub gear installed, but I'm completely ignorant of how it would fare at the beach. I used to have audio gear in a small office right over Venice Beach, so I'm on intimate terms with what you're talking about, but I really have no idea if it would eat lubricated drivetrain parts. Not as badly, I'd imagine, but that's just an educated guess.

I would not limit myself to the Dahon Mariner, it just adds a stainless steel chain to an aluminum bike.
You can put a SS chain on any bike, if the first one rusts.

Dahons or Downtubes would be good choices. Downtubes are well priced, and if a steel part rusts away, you should be able to replace it with aluminum or SS.

Wheel size will not matter at all for you. You may want a wide tire like a Big Apple.

If you have been away from biking for a long time, you will need lower gearing than the average biker.
Having multiple gears makes that easy, and you can move up as you get your bike legs back.

Hubgears make sense for any folder, and definitely for your case.

Are there any 26" single speed folders that I should consider, like the Dahon Cadenza Solo, perhaps? My biking friends cannot believe that I would consider a bike with 20" wheels, let alone the DownTube "mini". That's why I thought that maybe the Dahon Glide was a good choice (24" wheels), but no one ever talks about them. Is there anyone out there who actually has one? If so, please tell me why you love (or hate) it.


I also thought I'd need a full size bike but a test drive of a few 20" bikes changed my mind pretty fast. You won't be able to hop off a curb with the small wheels but other than that, they're good for everything.

Mjw is right on. I have 2 folders, a 20" wheel REI Fly-By (made by Dahon) and a 16" wheel Dahon Curve SL.
The 16" works as good as the 20", and neither are made for serious mountain biking or racing.

Thorusa is a great source for Dahons and info about them.

Jur and Sammyboy and I am sure a few others are experienced and knowledgeable about Downtubes.

For your purposes, a cheaper Downtube should work well.

For a flavor of the wisdom and talent on this forum, check out the thread:

"Dear folding bicycler person"

Downtube 8H all the way. I have the 2007 version, I really like it. Perfect bike for you, great shifting and lovely right. Excellent value too.

If you are using the bike near the sea with all that sand and salty air, I suspect an internal hub is a good idea. I recently came back from a ride near my office, next to the sea, and it was after some rain. The amount of cleaning I had to do on the derailleur and chain was nuts.

If you are using the bike near the sea with all that sand and salty air, I suspect an internal hub is a good idea. I recently came back from a ride near my office, next to the sea, and it was after some rain. The amount of cleaning I had to do on the derailleur and chain was nuts.

:thumb:

Hi Petoskey,

welcome to this friendly, helpful and wise forum.
I cant tell you which bike would be best, just wanted to emphasise some already given tips and add some ideas:

1)Forget dérailleur gears and go with either single speed (the best for the given outer conditions you mentioned = mariner area and flat) or with hub gear (the best for your "inner conditions" = newbie, no biker legs yet and easy understandable shifting).

2) As said before, consider wide tires for example big apple 60mm. That requires a frame which can take them. Big Apples are good for two reasons: a) don't sink into sand so easy like slim wheels b) protect your spine with a little suspension, important when sitting upright as bumps go direct into spine.

3) For the same reason (upright position) you might consider to have a suspended seatpost, either telescopic or parallelogram (like the thudbuster from cane creek). Not always cheap and probably not coming with the bike so you have to buy it additionally. With the upright position and not being the girl very helpful to protect your spine. Front suspension is in your case not so important.

4) Aluminium is also prone to suffer from salt/air/sand but maybe a little less than steel. And its lighter. You said, weight is no issue for you but handling a heavy bike (lifting in the car) is of course more unconvinient than handling a light one. So I am not proposing to go for the weight weeny madness but if you can choose, go for the lighter one.

5) As others posted, the chain will probably rust quickly and then destroy your cog and chainwheel. So consider a stainless steel chain from the beginning or consider a full-chainprotector like "Hebie chainglider". I think you can get a Dahon with chainglider.

6) Small wheel diameter is great, don't get irritated by the uninformed ;-)

Good luck
Somnatash

I also thought I'd need a full size bike but a test drive of a few 20" bikes changed my mind pretty fast. You won't be able to hop off a curb with the small wheels but other than that, they're good for everything.

In my experience, they're also not as good for steep hill-climbing in a seated position; but standing to pedal seems to prevent the front wheel from skipping up off the pavement.

Thanks for all the help, everyone. Sounds like the DownTube 8H is a "winner" for the my situation, but I'm still taken with the look (and additional features) of the Dahon U-shaped folders - the Ciao (20") or the Glide (24"). Does anyone out there own one? Seems like the active people on this forum are mostly men, and I suspect that the Dahon models in question are considered women's bikes. Am I right?

The Downtube, of course, is half the price of the Dahons under consideration. I don't mind spending the extra money, unless it's best to start with a less expensive bike until you know how often you might actually use it. Remember, I haven't owned a bike in 20 years. My intentions are good, but who knows?

I'll start a new tread with the words Ciao and Glide in the title, hoping to get some feedback from owners of those two bikes. I haven't heard a negative word yet about the DownTube 8H. Is that a better bike for me than the other 20" DownTube with an internal hub, the 8FH? Doesn't sound like suspension issues are a biggie for me, except for the seat post, which the Ciao/Glide Dahons already have.

Thanks again, everyone. I'll keep checking back for more helpful hints. You're the best!

all good ( or mostly all anyhow..lol ) ideas and suggestions

Mariner is a good no nonsense bike , which looks better in the marine enviroment if it gets older , comparedto a glide or Chiao .. just because of a few items like the brushed alloy alloy frame etc...
Like everything it does need periodic cleaning so the saltwater is removed form the bike ... It is a no nonsens bike which surprises because its lighter weight than the bikes with internal hubs

Internal hubs.. yes better in sandy conditions than the exposed derrailleur hanging down
Like a Vitesse D & would be a good choice ( they still need to be cleaned after exposed to saltwater )

Chia and Glide P 24 both are Cadillacs with lights , generatur hubs, the best Internal gears one can buy , relaxed upright riding position ....
If money is not a huge isuue go with one of these , you gonna like the feeling these two bikes have

thor

Wow - thanks for the speedy replies! Your ideas make me wonder if it's better to go with the Mariner (no steel parts to rust) or the internal hub models mentioned (Ciao/Glide/DownTube 8H). What's the bigger enemy to the bike - the sand getting in the derailleur, or rust from salt air in general?

For the record I don't have any extended riding experience on the beach. I've just often seen steel folding bikes advertised as "not suitable for marine environments" (presumably to advise boaters who want folding bikes to keep on their boats).


If you have been away from biking for a long time, you will need lower gearing than the average biker.
Having multiple gears makes that easy, and you can move up as you get your bike legs back.

Note that the Downtube 8H is way overgeared (that is the lowest gear is pretty high and the highest gear is absurdly high). While fixing it for a reasonable gear range isn't a big deal, I certainly think someone looking for something "basic" to avoid maintenance would want to consider the cost/hassle of getting this fixed.


Thanks for all the help, everyone. Sounds like the DownTube 8H is a "winner" for the my situation, but I'm still taken with the look (and additional features) of the Dahon U-shaped folders - the Ciao (20") or the Glide (24"). Does anyone out there own one? Seems like the active people on this forum are mostly men, and I suspect that the Dahon models in question are considered women's bikes. Am I right?

In my opinion the concept of a "women's bike" is a bit of an anachronism that has not carried over to the more modern concept of a folding bike. Lady's bikes are usually referred to as such because they don't have top tubes to get in the way of skirts and dresses. Since most folding bikes don't have top tubes anyway it's hard to make any such distinction.

well ..Ladies bikes are different in the geometry .. not such lack of top tube ( as it was admittingly the case in the 70 and 80 ties )
Ladies usually have longer legs and a shorter torso , their sitbones are diffent than mens and the list goes on ....
In later years bike manufacturers have taken these " differences" into account and designed their ladies bikes with these in mind .....

In the case of the Glide and Chiao these are designed to be ladies bikes....( however can be ridden by Gents as well of course )

thor

Note that the Downtube 8H is way overgeared (that is the lowest gear is pretty high and the highest gear is absurdly high). While fixing it for a reasonable gear range isn't a big deal, I certainly think someone looking for something "basic" to avoid maintenance would want to consider the cost/hassle of getting this fixed.




This is a really good point. I don't think you should drop the Downtube from consideration, but you'll want to take it to the bike shop, and have a smaller chainring fitted (perhaps 38t, or something). This will be inexpensive, and any bike shop should be able to do it with no trouble.

Again, thanks! Your insights are much appreciated. I'm still looking for input from Ciao/Glide owners, hoping that someone, somewhere has used one as a beach bike. The Dahon website forum only had one review, and it it was from a "gent", of all things. He loved the ride, but was already looking for ways to make the bike lighter. If the only lifting that I'll do with this bike is into and out of the back compartment of my mini-van, should I really consider that to be a negative? I lift 40 lb. bags of dog food in and out of that same comparment regularly without much trouble.

Regarding the Mariner and Vitesse, are they really the same bike, except for the gearing? Would the Vitesse handle the exposure to the marine environment as well as the Mariner? And why wouldn't the Ciao/Glide stand up as well - is it something about the painted surfaces?

Keep the comments coming, unless you're sick of this tread by now.

Thanks again!

Petoskey... you shouldn't have a problem with the weight if it's just in and out of your van.

Paint will protect the metal surfaces from the sand, salt and sea. However, over time if the bike isn't cleaned regularly, sand and salt will eventually chip away at the paint. The main issue is metal that can't handle getting that salty wet found near the sea.

The Mariner probably has stainless steel bits and a stainless steel chain. This will help protect the bike from the elements a bit more than the Vitesse. However, the Mariner also uses a derailleur, not internal gears. So eventually something will get in there.

I think either bike will last a good bit of time as long as it is properly maintained. As someone noted above, if you have a bike that doesn't have the stainless steel bits, you can probably replace those bits pretty easily when the originals start to get rust in a few years.

Honestly, I wouldn't worry too much about it. Get the bike you like. It doesn't sound to me like any of the bikes you mentioned will suffer too greatly from being on the beach regularly. The ones with internal hubs are probably better overall because there will be less cleaning fiddly bits.

--sam

I've been riding both an inexpensive single-speed Schwinn 'Hinge' folder (20" wheels) with 2" hybrid tires and a vintage Dahon single-speed with 1.5" road tires (16" wheels) on the packed-sand beach at Kiawah Island. Though both bikes can handle the surface well enough, the old Dahon's chain is rusting after only two days and the new Schwinn's chrome parts are rusting too. I wouldn't recommend subjecting a better (and almost 6 times more expensive) bike to the salt, sand, and sea air. If you can possibly accommodate two folding bikes, why not the Dahon Glide (a nice bike -- my wife prefers to sit upright and likes the Glide's looks too) for everyday use and an inexpensive Schwinn folder for the beach?

Regards
T

If you go with a hubgear, lowering the gear range is done inexpensively by changing the rear sprocket to a larger size.
This is much cheaper than changing the front chainring and guard.

You will need even lower gearing in sand compared to pavement.Go for 20 gear-inches or lower for the lowest gear.

An 8 speed hubgear will serve you much better than a 3 speed, and even noticeably better than a 7 speed.

You can put stainless steel chains and bolts on any bike. Avoid deraillers off pavement.

If you go with a hubgear, lowering the gear range is done inexpensively by changing the rear sprocket to a larger size.This is much cheaper than changing the front chainring and guard.You will need even lower gearing in sand compared to pavement.Go for 20 gear-inches or lower for the lowest gear.An 8 speed hubgear will serve you much better than a 3 speed, and even noticeably better than a 7 speed.You can put stainless steel chains and bolts on any bike. Avoid deraillers off pavement.

Just a note about the Downtube: Even if you change both the rear sprocket to the largest available and the front chainring to the smallest that will fit on the stock cranks you won't be able to get anywhere near 20 gear inches. If you want to get below 30 gear inches on the Downtube then you need to replace the cranks.

For excellent info on anything related to bikes, check out Sheldon Brown's articles at Harris Cycle website.

I tried riding my Strida on the beach at Fire Island a few months ago... and it was so difficult that I'd call it impossible. Perhaps our sand is different? I have heard that people with balloon tires or MTB tires --26 x 2 or more-- have no trouble; but the 16 x 1.5 on the Strida were terrible. There seemed to be an elusive patch of sand right just at the farthest reach of the crashing waves, where the sand was hard enough to support the bike (and me) for a short while; but to either side it was just too soft. I think the Strida's geometry was partly to blame. I let some air out of the tires to increase surface area, which helped a little (but not enough).

I don't mean to discourage anyone; but my results were definitely discouraging, and I'm perplexed that people are able to ride on the beach at all. Do different sands really vary that much? Or is there some technique that I need to know?

________________

By the way...

Just a note about the Downtube: Even if you change both the rear sprocket to the largest available and the front chainring to the smallest that will fit on the stock cranks you won't be able to get anywhere near 20 gear inches. If you want to get below 30 gear inches on the Downtube then you need to replace the cranks.
I think you can put a 38T chain ring on the crank, and you can definitely get a 25T for the huib; which will give you a lowest gear of 20.5 gear inches.

By the way...

I think you can put a 38T chain ring on the crank, and you can definitely get a 25T for the huib; which will give you a lowest gear of 20.5 gear inches.

How do you get 20.5 gear inches from that? The SA 8-speed has the lowest gear as 1:1. So 20*38/25=30.4

How do you get 20.5 gear inches from that? The SA 8-speed has the lowest gear as 1:1. So 20*38/25=30.4

I went to Sheldon Brown's gear calculator, entered Sturmey Archer 8 speed hub, 16 x 1.5 tire, 25 tooth sprocket, and 38 tooth chain ring, and selected results to be shown in gear inches.

Lowest gear 20.5, highest 62.4.

How do you get 20.5 gear inches from that? The SA 8-speed has the lowest gear as 1:1. So 20*38/25=30.4

You've done this with 20" wheels, he's done it with 16. That's the confusion.

I went to Sheldon Brown's gear calculator, entered Sturmey Archer 8 speed hub, 16 x 1.5 tire, 25 tooth sprocket, and 38 tooth chain ring, and selected results to be shown in gear inches.

Lowest gear 20.5, highest 62.4.

We're talking about the 8H, not the Mini.

We're talking about the 8H, not the Mini.

Ah, silly me.:o

At Hilton Head Island the sand, at low tide, is like cement. Hundreds of people (young & old, fit or fat) are out there daily, riding every style of bike that you can imagine. That area of the coastline has extremely large tide variations, so a very wide area (100' or more) of "ocean bottom" is exposed at low tide each day. I never had any doubt about actually riding a bike on the beach when I started this thread, I just wanted to know if anyone had found a folder that could hold up to the salt and sand, mechanically. The bike companies at Hilton Head rent out single speed, "cruiser" style bikes to the beach crowd, but I need something that folds, and could double as my everyday bike.

So far, I think that the consensus is that an internal hub would be helpful, and wide tires are a must. All this recent talk about "gear inches" is way over my head, so hopefully you're just having an academic debate on this topic, and it wasn't really meant to help me make a product choice.

It is not hard to pedal a bike on the firmly compacted sand at Hilton Head. I do not want or need to go fast (a 99 pound labrador retriever will be trying to keep up with me), so I'm wondering if the comments regarding the gearing on the DownTube 8H being "too high" should really be a concern for me. I love the features of the Dahon Glide, but if it (or any other folder) can't stand up to life by the sea, I wonder if I shouldn't settle for the less expensive DownTube 8H (at half the price). Having two bikes is not an option for me. It was storage and transporting problems that made me start looking at folders to begin with.

Thanks to everyone who keeps adding on to this thread. I never expected to get this this type of response.

Hi Petoskey, I have also found this forum very helpful.

Calculating gear-inches is academic, but it does affect you and your dog.
There are many folks on this forum who will run the numbers and select the gears for you.
You can also do it yourself with Sheldon Brown's automatic calculator if you wish.

It will be easier on your knees to have lower gearing.
It will make it possible to go slower (this is where it helps the dog on warm days).
You will be able to set a steadier pace than alternating pedaling and resting.

The gyro effect of your faster spinning legs is helpful in keeping balance at very low speeds.
You need very low gearing to do this. That is easier done on a 16" wheel folder.
There are other factors in balance, but you are already doing them on any bike.

A good dealer will be able to set the bike up for you with low gearing and wide tires.
If you cannot find a LBS that will do that, Thorusa and others definitely can.

If you want to spend about $900, a Dahon Curve SL 8 speed would serve you well.
For much less, $550?, a Dahon Curve D3 3 speed is also a good choice.
I am not saying that Dahons are better than others, I just have experience with Dahon Curves.

Either bike (or any other you buy) will need a larger rear sprocket and a stainless steel chain.
You can have the dealer do the calculations and the modifications.

You can run the info by us before you buy, if you want more of our humble opinions.

... I do not want or need to go fast (a 99 pound labrador retriever will be trying to keep up with me), so I'm wondering if the comments regarding the gearing on the DownTube 8H being "too high" should really be a concern for me.

Hi,
I double what BB49 said to explain about gearing. If you not want or not need to go fast then lower gearing is better. (So it is mostly if one is new to cycling/not trained/super-sportswoman.)

Low gearing = spinn high with little pressing power on the pedals, you move slow
high gearing = have to press hard on the pedals, move fast

With low gearing it is more training for the cardiovascular system and at the same time more gently to your knees. The cardiovascular system adapts more easily and quicker to the new training than bones, tendons and muscles do. The cardiovascular system also gives quicker response if exhausted. So it is easier to damage you knee than the system because you might feel the overstress at the knee only afterwards when its "too late".

So yes, the comments of the Downtube 8H perhaps being "too high" make sense.
To get lower gearing one can either change the cog at the rear to a bigger (cheaper) or change the chainwheel at the cranks to a smaller one (a bit more hassle).

Good luck :)

all very good advice ( nothing else expected really )

I like the Chiao becasue of a few things ..its very euro ... ( it has won bicycle of the year competition in the Netherlands !!! ) What I mean with Euro is ...

it oozes style .......................

it is "loaded" with generator hub, lights front and rear , carrier , suspension seatpost... and the list goes on ....................

it has probably thebest internal hub available for money with a large range of gears...........

it has a more upright riding position.... maybe a little slower than the guy who is all bunched up over his drop down handlebar... but you can go slower and enjoy the scenery ( smell the roses so to speak)

it can be outfitted with the klickfix willow basket ( expensive like the dickens, but who said that style is cheap) ............

id I mention it rides very nice , even at slower speeds ?..........

Thor

The alternative .... go for smaller, lightweight and get a Curve D3 ... take carrier and fenders off to save more weight and have a " naked" bike

Is there any reason that the Ciao would be better on the beach than the Glide? I looked over the specs and the only real differences that I saw (outside of the dimensional ones) were the handlepost (maybe?) and the tires. The Glide has the wider "Big Apple" tires that I thought might be better on the sand.

No "naked" bikes for me please. I like all the features on the Ciao/Glide models, and could care less that they weigh a little more than the stripped down bikes. If you say that they ride well at low speeds (does that hold true for the Glide too?), then that's good enough for me. I'm not as worried as people on this forum think I should be, I guess. I may be 60, but I am fairly fit (former P.E. teacher), and I don't think I'll blow my knees out if I don't get the "gear inches" down to some magic number (20?). I promise to take it easy until I develop my biking legs!

So, let's narrow this choice down to the two Dahon "euro" models - the 20" Ciao or the 24" Glide. I still think I'd like the bigger bike better, but I'm open to arguments as to why the smaller bike would be the more intelligent choice. The weight difference (less than 2 lbs.) and folded size differences (1"-3" per dimension) are of little consequence to me, but if the folding procedure (tools -vs- no tools) or the ride (particularly on the beach) is significantly different, I'll listen.

The problem is, of course, that none of you out there (outside of the bike dealers - thank you, Thor) have even seen these bikes. So, if you find it amusing, look at the specs and render an opinion. I've really enjoyed your input thus far. You are a real asset to all the "newbies" who have no access to any folders at their LBS.

Thanks again, everyone.

I have a fixed gear swift folder (swiftfolder.com). I commute by ferry and bike most days. There have been days when the harbor is choppy and the wind is from the wrong direction, that the bike has been given a saltwater bath. I rode it all last winter through the sand and salt thrown down on Boston roadways. As screws rust, I replace them with stainless hardware. Only parts that are rusting now are the bolts that connect the crank arms to the bottom bracket (if anyone knows where I can get Ti or stainless bolts, please let me know).

Bike has about 2000 miles on it over the past 18 months and is riding well (although the front wheel is starting to ping and creak).

I'd suggest giving peter reich a call at swift. Putting a single speed rear wheel on with a white industries free wheel and a KMC S-10 stainless chain would be close to corrosion proof.

I test rode a Ciao when I was picking out my folder and it was beautiful but HOLY CR*P was it heavy. I admit I'm a bit of a scrawny 120lb weakling but I just don't see any need for anything to be that heavy.

When I stood and looked at all the folders in person - the 20" wheels, the 24" wheels, the 16" wheels and I folded them all up and lifted them.... it seemed stupid (for my purposes) to get anything other than the 16" wheel. The whole point of the folding bike (for me) was to take up as little space as possible. Why go half way and just get a normal size bike that folds in half (and is still really ackward and cumbersome and impossible to carry) when I could get something that folds down quite tiny (and is something I can actually lift and carry)?

I vote you go as small a wheel as you can bear to (you do have to be willing to be attention-grabbing if you're going to ride a 16" wheeled bike).

Sounds like you're set on either the glide or the ciao - I'm sure either will be fabulous.

I test rode a Ciao when I was picking out my folder and it was beautiful but HOLY CR*P was it heavy.

Wow, 31 pounds!

Sure is pretty, though. It would make a lovely beach bike, just aesthetically speaking.

glide and chiao are both good.... yeah the weight ..its around 30 ..but keep in mind that a lot of other folders are very close to that number as well, but without internal gears, generator hub, lights fenders, kickstand carrier ... iam sure I forget something..
its either "naked" bike OR loaded and that means a couple extra pounds

go with what you like better. Both bikes are great

thor

Well, if all else fails, go by color! Glide is a gorgeous caramel, Ciao is a muted gray... :p

Those 2 bikes have such similar visual appeal and specs that I would say go for the one that you can get the best deal on. Look around, there may be a dealer with old stock that they want to get rid of.

That said, the 20" Ciao has the advantage of lower gearing - good for your application, as well as a wide availablity tubes and tyres should you be needing any.

So spec-wise, the Ciao wins it. But you may get a good deal on a Glide.

Thanks again for your thoughtful responses. One question I failed to ask earlier, is what about the brakes? I've been reading the thread about full-sized folder recommendations, and the 2008 Cadenza 8 was mentioned. It has disc brakes. Would those work better in a sandy environment?

I could accomodate the folded size of this bike, and it's not that much more money than the Ciao and/or Glide, so would it make a better beach bike? The gear inch range starts higher (35" -vs- 28"/30"). Could that be dealt with on this model? It's actually lighter, but that's probably because it lacks fenders, lights, chainguard, and a rack. Which of those items are actually needed, if you're NOT communting on this bike and can pick when to ride (sunny days, daylight hours only)?

Perhaps I'm letting the "cute" looks of the Ciao/Glide get to my heart, when I should be using my head. I don't NEED the step-through design, I just like how it looks. So, what's the verdict - is the Dahon Cadenza 8 a better beach bike than the others?

PS - I finally read the thread (start to finish, at one time) regarding folding bikes being "unsanitary". I thought I'd die laughing! It should be published somewhere. You people are really clever! Thanks for taking the time to help me through my initial purchase of one of these wonderful machines.

usually where your heart is thats what you want to buy.. because you always have this nagging problem later ...I should have bought .... lol

The Cadenza 8 is an awesome bike .... in my opinion its underpriced for what it is ....
Disc brakes are not necessary stronger than V brakes ..........just different. I like them better but than I am crazy anyhow

I have the nagging feeling about that beach bike name ... I really would only consider cheap naked derailleur bike for the beach.
One I could powerwash and get the sand out .... but I am just on the fence with this as I picture somebody who lets the bike out in the rain, rides through the saltwater and doesnt wash the bike off ....

which is NOT the case when I read your posts, ...so you should be good....

keep in mind that the Cadenza comes in 3 different sizes ( frame sizes ) and that the small size is NOT available in the US only 18 and 20 inch frame size.... this might or might not be a deciding factor..

Thor

p.s. lights are good the moment you ride in dusk or dawn on a road with cars..... you will eventually biu a set anyhow

Perhaps I'm letting the "cute" looks of the Ciao/Glide get to my heart

That's what hearts are for.

Everyone's different, but IMHO the one you love is the one you'll actually ride.

As for disk vs. V-brakes, I'll bow to the resident experts on this one, but when I had a Dahon with disk brakes, I always had to clean them thoroughly (and sometimes have them readjusted) after riding through rain or muck. If I didn't, they made horrendous noise the next day. I'd imagine beach use would be comparable because of the moisture, salt, and sand in the environment.

If I only rode in fair weather, I don't think I'd have a preference; but for foul weather, my experience with V-brakes has been much more trouble-free. (And if you do go that way, I highly recommend Kool Stop salmon pads for riding on wet surfaces.)

Let's see if the entire message goes thru this time.

I have tested the Glide, nice bike, but would not fit into my very small car.
The Ciao has lots of style and an excellent chainguard.
My 20" Dahon Mu came with the same hubgear, gearing, wheels, and tires.
I put on wider tires. You can put Big Apples on those wheels.
You might have to change the fenders, Thor would know.
I bought some handlepost accessories from Thor that allow me to sit more upright.
Both the Glide and Ciao come with the Rustbuster chain, great for your usage.

The weight matters most if you do hills, or carry it a few hundred feet thru a subway station. On flat ground, you will not even notice it. I do not notice the 7 lb difference between my Dahons on flat trails.

I added the 16" Curve SL to the "fleet" because of the smaller size, very helpful with my very small car. I enjoy the lighter weight of it, but that was not a factor, I lift dumbells anyway.

Both of my Dahons came with the same gearing, which is also the same as the Ciao.
I changed to lower gearing not because I wanted to go extra slow, but for 2 other reasons.
I was not biking real fast on flat ground, and not using the top 2 gears, so I was "wasting" the capacity of the bike.
Why pay for 8 speeds and use only 6? For a very low extra cost, I now use all 8 gears.
Also, I have hills I bike, especially in the most scenic areas.

You can make any bike go real slow. But no matter who you are (even Lance), and what model bike you have, you will be able to track straighter and have a more even speed at very low speeds if you have very low gearing.
You (and even Lance) will naturally do more "countersteering" for balance, and will have a more uneven speed, at that same low speed, if you have higher gearing.

If I was biking on a warm day with a large dog trotting alongside, I would want to go very slow, with a very even pace, and very straight tracking. It would be best both for me and the dog.

Dahons with Shimano hubgears normally come with a 16 tooth rear sprocket, the smallest that will fit.

For the Ciao, I would go with a 20 or 22 tooth rear sprocket.

For the Glide, I would go with a 23 tooth sprocket, the largest as per Shimano.

If you can get one a lot cheaper, you can have Big Apples and the same gearing on either.

I would not be so quick to say what bikes we have not seen. many of us tested several bikes before we
bought. We have traded rides with friendly folder owners at folder events, and even meeting on trails.

I live near 2 folding bike dealers, and have tested every type of Brompton, every size and gearing of Dahon, and a few others. I have only owned 3 folders, which is low for this bunch.
The Europeans on this forum have more opportunities, and have probably rode many more than I have.

My 20" Dahon comes with the same wheels, tires, hubgear, and gearing as the Ciao. It weighs almost as much, and I changed the handlebar setup to give me a more upright riding style.
I do not need to ride all other 20" Dahons with the same setup, that only look a lot different.

How many polar bears does someone have to watch and study before one can make some good statements about polar bears?

You may want to re-think your claim that "we have never seen these bikes".

So sorry BB49, I just figured no one had any experience with them (the Ciao & Glide) 'cause I kept asking for feedback on those two models and until just recently, no one said anything. I even started a separate thread with the model names in the title, and, outside of Thor, there was no response from anyone who had any even touched one. After all the help the people here have given me, I certainly didn't mean to insult anyone. Please accept my apologies. I'll go away quietly now. Looks like I've worn out my welcome.

Thanks again, everyone!

I'll go away quietly now. Looks like I've worn out my welcome.What! You only just got here! Almost nobody's touchy over here... you will always be welcome. You've worn out nothing.

And we are looking for your impressions of whatever bike you get in the end! :love: