Living Car Free - Get a drivers license?

I'll be turning 16 soon and was wondering if I should get a DL?

Yes. For the following reasons

1. If you are asking the question, that means you view driving as serious business, a view seriously lacking in many American drivers.

2. Just because you have a license doesn't mean you need to use it. You don't even need to own a car.

3. I think learning to drive and getting some time behind the wheel will give you some experience useful in cycling.

That question comes up fairly often here. Opinions vary. My own opinion is that knowing how to drive is a valuable skill. While you're at it, you could also get a motorcycle endorsement, learn to drive stick shift as well as automatic, and learn basic automotive maintenance and repair. However, nothing requires you to own a motor vehicle or rely on one for your basic transportation needs.

Getting a driver's license is a good idea. You don't have to actually own a car, but you can never predict when you'll need to use one on a temporary basis.

Is there any cost involved besides the initial cost?

Is there any cost involved besides the initial cost?
That would be covered in your state's motorist handbook. The required driver education course may cost money. There will probably be license renewal fees every few years. Some states seem to require either proof of auto insurance coverage to get a drivers license or an affidavit that you do not own a motor vehicle. The insurance requirement is where it gets tricky.

This would be a good question to ask in your drivers education class.

I think it would be a great idea. I think it's an important skill to have.

Besides the skill any type of establishment uses them as a form of identification. Either you should get your DL or a state id or join the military. My vote... Get the DL

As far as I know, once you get past driver's education, the exam and all that stuff, the driver's licence is fairly cheap in Ontario. And there are quite a few advantages in getting it sooner rather than later:

– Ontario is one of the jurisdictions where new drivers (for 1 or 2 years) can't drive too late at night or with more than 1 or 2 passengers (I think it should be the other way around: requiring drivers to carpool), so it could be a problem if you get a night-shift job that requires driving.

– Some jobs require a driving license. Sometimes it's for no useful purpose (discrimination, except you can't prove your point), but quite often, it's because you might be expected to drive the company vehicle, drive a fork lift (it works better if you start with some car driving skills), visit customers, ...

– If or when you get a car, you will actually be considered as a driver with a good driving record rather than a new driver.


When should you do it?
– It might be worth checking with the Department of Motor Vehicles or a driving school to see if the requirements or license limitations are the same at 16 or 18. For instance, it might be simpler to do your theoretical classes at 17.75 years old and the practical classes and permit once you reach 18.
– You will need to spend some time behind the wheel, and preferably much more than the 10-15 hours you do with the instructor. Are your parents willing to add you as occasional driver on their car insurance? Would they give you some practise time with one of them at your side (ex.: family trips...)? And would it fit into your schedule?

Is there any cost involved besides the initial cost?


Depends on where you live. My state requires proof of insurance to get your license, though you don't have to necessarily maintain it.

It will remove you from the dubious status of "cyclist fundamentalist" -- that is, someone who doesn't have a clue about how drivers perceive the behaviour of many cyclists on the road. If you haven't driven a car around cyclists, you can't comment on driver behaviours towards cyclists.

Secondly, the driver's licence appears to have became the national identity card... for proof of age to transacting business. It's much easier to produce a driver's licence from the wallet than umm and err, or carry a passport.

Thirdly, it is entirely possible to live without a driver's licence, but you then have to rely on other people all the time, and when it comes to things like moving house interstate, or oveseas travel, hiring a vehicle can be useful... for which you need a licence.

Michel makes an excellent point about how having a driver's licence might be a prerequisite for a job -- and likely those that you will need to fund your education into the future.

Of course, having a driver's licence doesn't mean you have to own a motor vehicle.

Get a license.

For better or worse, it's hassle-free national ID, accepted proof that you are who you say you are, and the last thing you need is to be cross examined by a dutiful but cycling-ignorant deputy or traffic cop.

I get stopped from time to time, first thing they ask for is ID. I've thought about carrying my passport and showing it instead. Eventually I might, but I'm old enough to get away with it. You try something like that... at sixteen... and they're likely to think you're messing with them. You'll be face down on the hood of the cruiser, hands behind your back, faster than you can say Bill of Rights.

Plus, proof that you can drive is kind of a rite of adulthood in our society. Maybe someday that won't be true, but it is for now. It'll be needlessly difficult to get a job, open a bank account, vote, or buy Samuel Adams Cream Stout without the universally accepted Motor Vehicle License.

Dating might also be an issue, unless you limit your field of candidates to just other cyclists. (Not necessarily a bad thing, but watch The 40 Year Old Virgin to see what I mean.)

Get a license.

For better or worse, it's hassle-free national ID, accepted proof that you are who you say you are, and the last thing you need is to be cross examined by a dutiful but cycling-ignorant deputy or traffic cop.



That's not a worthwhile reason. If all you want is an ID, go down to the DMV and get an ID card.

I think all the reasons given for getting a DL are highly over-stated. (36yo, never had one.)

Okay, maybe I'm too old to understand, but why would you not want a driver's license, considering how easy one is to obtain in the United States?

Okay, maybe I'm too old to understand, but why would you not want a driver's license, considering how easy one is to obtain in the United States?

No you're not too old. I can't think of any reason not to either. You never know. You might have to drive sometime and driving without a license I think is a felony in the US.

That's not a worthwhile reason. If all you want is an ID, go down to the DMV and get an ID card.

Ironically, a DL is better ID than a state issued ID card. This is because there are federal standards for DLs, but not ID cards. I know this because I used to sell liquor and we would sell to anyone with a US DL but not anyone with a US ID card.

You might have to drive sometime and driving without a license I think is a felony in the US.

Lolz, I doubt it. Not in OR at least (unless it was revoked for DUI).

driving without a license I think is a felony in the US.

funny stuff... :roflmao2:

Okay, maybe I'm too old to understand, but why would you not want a driver's license, considering how easy one is to obtain in the United States?

Can't speak for the US, but in Ontario its not all that cheap, particularly not if you take a proper driver's ed course. Plus you need regular access to a vehicle to practise, and take the road tests. Meanwhile I get a nice, free, photo ID - it's called the Ontario Health Card (aka OHIP card, in the old days).

I somehow doubt anyone will ever hold a gun to my head and force me to drive, so I'm not too worried about "having" to drive without a license. :rolleyes:

What if I someday put aside my values and beliefs, and decide I want a license? Fine, will get it then. No point wasting time and money on something that is unlikely ever to happen. That's like buying hundreds of diapers "just in case" I ever have a baby (about as likely as me ever driving).

Bottom line - with a bit of planning you can have a great car-free life, and most of the reasons given to get a license amount to "because its the normal thing to do". Normal can kiss my ass. :D

If you do not get a license, you can plan your life in a way you never need a car. That may limit some opportunities and open your eyes to others.

If you do not get a license, you can plan your life in a way you never need a car. That may limit some opportunities and open your eyes to others.

Well said. Every choice in life opens some doors and closes others. Getting to your desired lifestyle isn't a matter of luck, its all about the choices.

Can't speak for the US, but in Ontario its not all that cheap, particularly not if you take a proper driver's ed course. Plus you need regular access to a vehicle to practise, and take the road tests. Meanwhile I get a nice, free, photo ID - it's called the Ontario Health Card (aka OHIP card, in the old days).

I somehow doubt anyone will ever hold a gun to my head and force me to drive, so I'm not too worried about "having" to drive without a license. :rolleyes:

What if I someday put aside my values and beliefs, and decide I want a license? Fine, will get it then. No point wasting time and money on something that is unlikely ever to happen. That's like buying hundreds of diapers "just in case" I ever have a baby (about as likely as me ever driving).

Bottom line - with a bit of planning you can have a great car-free life, and most of the reasons given to get a license amount to "because its the normal thing to do". Normal can kiss my ass. :D



Pat - I don't know you, but I like you... especially the bit about kids. I think... speaking only for me... that living kid-free is just as important as living car-free. Many of my peers are now grandparents. Me, I haven't gotten around to getting married. Too busy being the world's greyest ten-year-old. I keep a license because I've had one since forever, and in the U.S., it's pretty much a birthright. You'd be horrified at how easy it is to get one. I still have a Commercial Tractor Trailer license from when the Army made me learn to drive one when I was 20 years old. I haven't driven one in maybe thirty five years,
but the state of Georgia says I still can. Scary? You bet.

I lived in Montreal for a little bit, and I have to say, Canadians are the grown ups of the North American family. You guys are responsible, respectable, and have some modicum of common sense. Your licensing regs are what ours should be... but won't, ever. Here, it's harder to join a video rental club than it is to get licensed. My Commercial renewal? $40USD, knocked down to $15 if I sign the organ donor pledge (and I do. They can have that stuff once I'm done with it, no problem.)

Back to my advice for our OP... At 16 years old, he needs to hedge his bets. He should get a driver's license because it's easy, it's cheap, and c'mon... what could be more fun than driver's ed? He doesn't nessessarily have to rush out and buy a Dodge Challenger SRT8... and the fact that he probably doesn't want to gives me hope for our future. BUT! As odious as the word normal may be... Normal is what people fall back on when they can't think of anything better to be... It's what the overwhelming majority of employers are out there seeking.

Pat - I don't know you, but I like you... especially the bit about kids. I think... speaking only for me... that living kid-free is just as important as living car-free.

I'm told I'm lovable :D (OK, I can hear my friends laughing at that already.) (This (http://www.xtra.ca/public/viewstory.aspx?AFF_TYPE=2&STORY_ID=4999&PUB_TEMPLATE_ID=2) sums me up pretty well, though they didn't mention I'm polyamorous. Still like me, or running for the hills?)


You'd be horrified at how easy it is to get one. I still have a Commercial Tractor Trailer license from when the Army made me learn to drive one when I was 20 years old. I haven't driven one in maybe thirty five years, but the state of Georgia says I still can. Scary? You bet.

Not that much better here - in fact Ontario makes it far to easy, particularly if you have a valid DL from another province or US state.


I lived in Montreal for a little bit, and I have to say, Canadians are the grown ups of the North American family. You guys are responsible, respectable, and have some modicum of common sense.

If you are right about that observation, I won't take it as a compliment - just a very sad state of affairs. Remember - we elected Bush-Lite as our prime minister.


Back to my advice for our OP... At 16 years old, he needs to hedge his bets. He should get a driver's license because it's easy, it's cheap, and c'mon... what could be more fun than driver's ed?

Sorry, still don't see it. First, 16 is when you should start making adult decisions and taking steps to figure out your life. Secondly, there is no real advantage to getting a DL now - you basically just restated the "because he may need it" argument. If he ever needs one, he can get one then.

Besides, are you really advocating that someone should get a DL at 16, not use it for a decade, them drive some day because he "needs" to? I don't care if you passed the exam with flying colours, a DL is worthless if you've been off the road for a decade.

I may be influenced by the young people I am used to dealing with in my community work - people who by 16, 18, or 20 had already made a big change in the world around them. Nevermind my strong belief that car use is irresponsible, I would never advocate to a young person that he/she do something because it is the "norm" or "expected". Society will suck the individuality out of most of them anyway, I won't be part of that.

Sorry for the long post - took a day off from work, and I've been bored out of my skull.

Markok765 -

As you can see from the many responses to your question, folks in this forum are passionate about the choices that they've made, i.e., to have nothing to do with automobiles. I salute them. They feel very strongly about NOT giving in to a wasteful and environmentally destructive paradigm. I hope they can change the world, make it better.

It's a hard path to follow, too hard for me, at any rate. I haven't owned a car since 1993, but I drove one this past Sunday. Put gas in it, too, before I returned it to its generous and trusting owner.

Am I a hypocrite? Who really cares? All I know is that life progresses so much more smoothly when one is able to compromise. Younger folks see that as selling out, older folks see it as a way to get through the day... so they can focus on whatever things they find to be more important. Bicycling is important to me, which is why I'm on these forums.

As for you, my advice still stands: Get a driver's license, maintain it, you won't regret it. If you're in the U.S., you won't ever have to use the thing, once you pass the initial driving exam. See if your parents would be willing to put you on their insurance so you'll have something to show come renewal time five or so years hence.

Finally, I'm thinking I may not be a good fit here in the Living Car Free forum. For me, bikes and riding are the thing. I like it all... Road racing, touring, commuting, even a bit of MTB riding... But as car-less as I've been for fifteen years now, I'm not quite car-free, and as geezerhood slowly advances on me, I probably never will be. So, I'm going to go annoy the guys who wax poetic about carbon fiber bottle cages & such. Be well, come say hi.

Driving is a skill. Learning a skill is rarely a bad thing.

One day you may get old and need a car.
Your parents or other loved ones may get old and need you to drive them in a car.
You may find yourself injured and need a car.
Someone else may be injured and need you to drive a car.

Here is a biggie--Your work may require you to drive on occasion.

I have two cars (well a car and a truck) I tank them up about every other month.



If you have the chance to learn to fly, do that too. Same for running a tractor, track-hoe or other big machinery.
You may never use them, but it does not hurt you to know how.

Driving is a skill. Learning a skill is rarely a bad thing.

One day you may get old and need a car.
Your parents or other loved ones may get old and need you to drive them in a car.
You may find yourself injured and need a car.
Someone else may be injured and need you to drive a car.

Here is a biggie--Your work may require you to drive on occasion.

I have two cars (well a car and a truck) I tank them up about every other month.

Old and need a car?---Take a taxi, maybe you shouldn't be driving anyway

Parents/loved ones need you to drive---Again, taxi or ambulance if serious

Injured and need a car---If its that serious, you shouldn't be driving.

Someone else injured---taxi's, ambulances and others with cars are available in most cases

Work may require you to drive---That one is about choices. Look for work that does not require a car.

Get the license because you want to drive a car. Throughout life, you'll make choices that may inconvenience others. That's life. Other alternatives are out there for helping others in need without the neccessity of driving.

In the case of a decision as serious as driving and cars, don't make the decision to not drive a light one, but once you make that choice, don't look back. If there is ever a real need to get a license and drive, you've done nothing to prevent that decision from being implemented if you elect, at this point in life, to not drive.

For those who say get the license, you don't have to drive even if you have, there is a cost to having a license. In my state, you must have insurance to renew the license. Of course, you could buy the insurance just for the purpose of renewal, then drop it. But, if you ever have to drive and don't have insurance, its a big fine.

Some have said get your parents to pay for the insurance. As a parent, I would have told my sons no,not if you aren't driving. Why should a parent cover the cost of insurance when you aren't going to drive. It ain't cheap.

If you want a car free life, its a lot easier to build one around the fact that you don't have a license and don't drive than if you do have a license. You have the most solid reason for not driving and the least temptation to succumb to peer and societal pressures to do so.

Caveat, I'm a driver, do not live car free, and would find it difficult at this point in life, because of life choices, to do so. I am working to reduce dependence.

As you can see from the many responses to your question, folks in this forum are passionate about the choices that they've made, i.e., to have nothing to do with automobiles. I salute them. They feel very strongly about NOT giving in to a wasteful and environmentally destructive paradigm. I hope they can change the world, make it better.

I'm not egotistical enough to think I will change the world by not using a car... I just go to bed knowing that, at least in this one way, I haven't made things worse.


Finally, I'm thinking I may not be a good fit here in the Living Car Free forum.

We're not all that puritanical :innocent: Why not hang around?

no

Old and need a car?---Take a taxi, maybe you shouldn't be driving anyway
I live in a rural area that does not have taxi service.

Parents/loved ones need you to drive---Again, taxi or ambulance if serious
You must love to spend money, my folks are in their 80's and have to go places other than the hospital.
Must be nice to have your disposable income for all the taxi service.

Injured and need a car---If its that serious, you shouldn't be driving.
That would have been expensive, loosing my job and all, when I had a broken wrist

Someone else injured---taxi's, ambulances and others with cars are available in most cases
Get a grip

Work may require you to drive---That one is about choices. Look for work that does not require a car.
For rural people dream jobs are not just around the block I'm 6 miles from my work, which I bike daily, and sometimes I have to travel 300+ miles for work, which I drive rather than not work and not eat.

Old and need a car?---Take a taxi, maybe you shouldn't be driving anyway
I live in a rural area that does not have taxi service

Parents/loved ones need you to drive---Again, taxi or ambulance if serious
You must love to spend money, my folks are in their 80's and have to go places other than the hospital.

Injured and need a car---If its that serious, you shouldn't be driving.
That would have been expensive, loosing my job and all, when I had a broken wrist

Someone else injured---taxi's, ambulances and others with cars are available in most cases
Get a grip

Work may require you to drive---That one is about choices. Look for work that does not require a car.
For rural people dream jobs are not just around the block I'm 6 miles from my work, which I bike daily, and sometimes I have to travel 300+ miles for work, which I drive rather than not work and not eat.

This thread isn't about you and your life choices. Its about a 16 year old trying to make a decision to get his license or not.

More likely than needing to drive for transporting yourself or others - you may need to rent or borrow a truck to transport something too heavy or massive to transport practically on a bicycle, like a pickup truck full of gravel or a kitchen stove or 50 sheets of plywood or six children or something of the sort. There are a handful of trips for which a car or truck really is the best way to go - but generally you don't need to own the car or truck to do them.

This thread isn't about you and your life choices. Its about a 16 year old trying to make a decision to get his license or not.



And I'm saying learning how to drive is not a bad thing.
It is a skill that can be of a great advantage. Not knowing how to drive will mean at some point he may have to rely on others good will. Self reliance is nothing to be ashamed of.
And at 16, when ones reflexes are sharp is a good time to learn to drive.

And I'm saying learning how to drive is not a bad thing.
It is a skill that can be of a great advantage. Not knowing how to drive will mean at some point he may have to rely on others good will. Self reliance is nothing to be ashamed of.
And at 16, when ones reflexes are sharp is a good time to learn to drive.

And I'm saying it ain't necessary and he can learn to drive later if there is a need. For that matter, he could learn to drive now, but not get a license. He could take the required DE course, get the certificate, and get the license on down the line if he changes his mind

Yes, its a skill, but not a necessary skill, nor is it, for most, much of a skill. And, being able to drive has absolutely nothing to do with self-reliance.

That's just laughable. Whatever.

That's just laughable. Whatever.

No, your premise that everyone needs to get a license is one to laugh at. How one chooses to live life will determine things like whether its necessary to drive. But, its laughable to claim its a necessary skill, or even a highly refined one considering how 80% of the public drives. And, at 16, its not a choice a person needs to make.

Even more laughable.
Read my original post, thoroughly this time.

Yeah, and knowing how to do lots of things is potentially helpful in life. But, one doesn't need to in order to have a good and happy life. Driving remains one of those skills that may be picked up anytime in life. My mother did it at 38, took a couple of days to learn, a bit of reading the book, taking the test and she had her license. A 16 year old, other than because of peer pressure, generally has no need for a license. He has plenty of time to make that decision. It remains a big laugh that a license is a need, not a luxury.

Old and need a car?---Take a taxi, maybe you shouldn't be driving anyway
I live in a rural area that does not have taxi service.

I see no point in responding to the whole Q&A things... but did want to point out that the above outlines my "first principle" of being car-free... its all about CHOICES. Where one lives or works are prime choices in the ability to be car-free.

Funny generational thing going on here. Before they passed way, my grand-parents where big on "back in the day" stories :p One that stuck with me is how, back in the 1940's when they got married and had kids, people were grateful to have a job and would be happy to move for one. Only the rich owned a house (unless you were a farmer), so it was easy to pick up and move.

People still move for jobs today, of course, but tend to not only settle into a home (they usually own), but also define themselves by it.

More likely than needing to drive for transporting yourself or others - you may need to rent or borrow a truck to transport something too heavy or massive to transport practically on a bicycle, like a pickup truck full of gravel or a kitchen stove or 50 sheets of plywood or six children or something of the sort. There are a handful of trips for which a car or truck really is the best way to go - but generally you don't need to own the car or truck to do them.

I've yet to find any product that can't be delivered. If your area lacks delivery services, why not move. Or start your own :thumb:

Only the rich owned a house (unless you were a farmer), so it was easy to pick up and move.


Not that it matters but, I live on a working farm.
It's not easy to pick up and move. Is Canada's economy really that booming?

Not that it matters but, I live on a working farm.
It's not easy to pick up and move. Is Canada's economy really that booming?

Which part did you miss, the bit about the 1940s, or the bit about most people not owning a house?

Yes! Get your DL, it will broaden your choices for later life, some jobs require a DL even though you will never drive in that job, I have a DL and am car free and loving it!

Opinions vary.
Yep.

To paraphrase an old saying, every posting on every forum could be subtitled "...Or How To Be More Like Me." The OP's question doesn't have a Yes or No answer that everyone would agree to. However, we've done a fair job of exploring the consequences that follow from each decision.

Yes! Get your DL, it will broaden your choices for later life, some jobs require a DL even though you will never drive in that job, I have a DL and am car free and loving it!


Do you pay for car insurance? If so, the albatross continues to hang over your head.

Do you pay for car insurance? If so, the albatross continues to hang over your head.
It depends on the state. In Texas, for example, the Transportation Code reads as follows:


§ 521.143. EVIDENCE OF FINANCIAL RESPONSIBILITY
REQUIRED. (a) An application for an original driver's license
must be accompanied by evidence of financial responsibility or a
statement that the applicant does not own a motor vehicle for which
evidence of financial responsibility is required under Chapter 601.
The department may require an application for a renewal of a
driver's license to be accompanied by evidence of financial
responsibility or a statement that the applicant does not own a
motor vehicle for which evidence of financial responsibility is
required under Chapter 601.
So it's possible in some states to maintain a drivers license without having to carry auto insurance. That doesn't give blanket permission to drive without having one's own insurance, though. In Texas, such a driver is basically limited to driving borrowed or rented vehicles where the vehicle owner has the required insurance.

I've yet to find any product that can't be delivered.

"Hey, we have a $6000 piece of equipment weighing about 700 pounds that we don't need any more in our back yard, if you come and get it it's yours."
Sure, you could just buy it new or do some rather funky juggling around to take care of it. Or you could go rent a U-haul or some such thing, drive it over, load it in, bring it back, unload it, and return the truck. If you have the license (especially if you are a "safe driver" because your driving record shows you've never been pulled over or had an accident) this is a pretty easy, direct, and painless thing to do.
As pointed out, many job applications ask if you have a drivers license. Why? I dunno, they don't involve driving. But why risk dealing with the discrimination? Sure you have a license. You don't drive, but you have the license.. which also serves as an instantly recognizable piece of ID that everyone will accept.

It depends on the state. In Texas, for example, the Transportation Code reads as follows:


So it's possible in some states to maintain a drivers license without having to carry auto insurance. That doesn't give blanket permission to drive without having one's own insurance, though. In Texas, such a driver is basically limited to driving borrowed or rented vehicles where the vehicle owner has the required insurance.

Try to rent a vehicle without proof of insurance. To drive, one must have insurance or proof of financial responsibility, whether you own the car or not. Rental companies only carry insurance on the vehicle itself, not liability should you, the driver and renter, have a collision for which you are at fault. If you borrow a vehicle and have an accident or are stopped for a violation, you may not only have to show insurance or financial responsibility on the vehicle, but that you too have insurance. And. only a fool would loan his/her car to an uninsured motorist. To even drive once and a while, you need, in Texas, to show proof of insurance or financial responsibility.

I've never had any problem renting vehicles without proof of insurance. They sell you insurance as part of renting the vehicle.

I've never had any problem renting vehicles without proof of insurance. They sell you insurance as part of renting the vehicle.

I've always been asked for proof of insurance when renting a vehicle. U-haul asked me for proof only a month ago when I rented a truck. The insurance you purchase when renting a vehicle has nothing to do with liability, its collision and comprehensive coverage on the vehicle you are driving. Have an accident in the vehicle and see what happens should an officer come to the site. Or, get pulled over and asked for verification of insurance or financial responsibility and see what happens. The rental company insurance does not pay for damage to the property of others. That's called liability insurance and is what one must have to drive a vehicle in Texas if they cannot show financial responsibility.