Advocacy & Safety - You know what gives cyclists a bad rep?

Cycling the wrong way on a multi-lane one way street because the cyclist is too lazy to ride one block over to the street in the proper direction.

I got off work in Downtown DC and was standing at the crosswalk when the guy went zooming by in the wrong direction. I guess he was trying to avoid 1 block of traffic because the traffic was trapped by the light. But, let's get real here. That guy was getting a lot of disgusted looks by pedestrians. We don't need this kind of rep.

As the light changed and the cars started coming at him he zipped onto the sidewalk (which IIRC is not legal in downtown DC).

You know what gives motorists a bad rap? The way 10% of them drive.

This isn't really news.

More about the double standard. Motorists think all cyclists are scofflaws because of the acts of a few. Unlike cyclists, who understand that 90% of the motorists are reas . . . wait, that's not what happens.

Bad driving is bad driving. I see bad cycling, walking, jogging, running, and driving about equally. The only thing I don't see done badly by some is flying. Rigorous licensing and a high natural selection penalty.

Only 10% of motorists are poor drivers? A much larger percentage seem to have problems with speed LIMITs.

This isn't really news.



I just provided an example of why cyclists get the bad rep. There is no culpability. No license plate number to report the cyclist. He's gone unless there is an accident that disables his bike.


Motorists who drive recklessly/illegally have people take down the plate number and if the authorities don't catch the car on the road, you can be sure that there will be a cop visiting the address on the registration.

I just provided an example of why cyclists get the bad rep. There is no culpability. No license plate number to report the cyclist. He's gone unless there is an accident that disables his bike.


Motorists who drive recklessly/illegally have people take down the plate number and if the authorities don't catch the car on the road, you can be sure that there will be a cop visiting the address on the registration.

and collisions with cars are much more likely to cause death or serious injury than collisions with bicycles. hm, with increased potential for damage comes increased responsibility. who'd a thunk?

and collisions with cars are much more likely to cause death or serious injury than collisions with bicycles. hm, with increased potential for damage comes increased responsibility. who'd a thunk?

Nice attempt at trying to explain it away; however, your response still does not address the zero culpability of bicyclists who choose to flagrantly violate the traffic laws (like the example I gave). There is a huge potential for property and personal injury in crashes between bikes and cars, and no way to to report it other than call the cops and say "I saw a guy on a blue road bike going the wrong way down 12th street."

Guy is most likely never going to be caught because the cops have nothing to go on.

Again, this thread was an example of something that gives cyclists a bad rep. Responding with something like "Yeah, but motorists ..." is ignoring the problem.

Nice attempt at trying to explain it away; however, your response still does not address the zero culpability of bicyclists who choose to flagrantly violate the traffic laws (like the example I gave). There is a huge potential for property and personal injury in crashes between bikes and cars, and no way to to report it other than call the cops and say "I saw a guy on a blue road bike going the wrong way down 12th street."

Guy is most likely never going to be caught because the cops have nothing to go on.

Again, this thread was an example of something that gives cyclists a bad rep. Responding with something like "Yeah, but motorists ..." is ignoring the problem.

and bicyclists are what percentage of road users where you live? .4 % is the national average who claim to commute by bike in cities that doesn't address the volume of traffic for other transportation and in less populated areas where bikes claim an even smaller share. Combine that with the larger mass and speed of automobiles and complaints about wrong way, red light running cyclists doesn't really justify all the hot air IMO. But if you want to get all hot under the collar and jump on that bandwagon I'm sure there's plenty of room for one more- it's a big tent, full of hot air, I'm hoping one day it will just float away.

I saw someone run across a highway the other day, at night- man, those pedestrians! and there was no license, no way to identify them just some kid out on the street. They should have a number stapled to their forehead so they can be identified if I call the police on them.:rolleyes:

and bicyclists are what percentage of road users where you live? .4 % is the national average who claim to commute by bike in cities that doesn't address the volume of traffic for other transportation and in less populated areas where bikes claim an even smaller share. Combine that with the larger mass and speed of automobiles and complaints about wrong way, red light running cyclists doesn't really justify all the hot air IMO. But if you want to get all hot under the collar and jump on that bandwagon I'm sure there's plenty of room for one more- it's a big tent, full of hot air, I'm hoping one day it will just float away.



Sigh, it appears that no specific criticism, and it was specific, of bicyclists is ever warranted here. :crash:

I just provided an example of why cyclists get the bad rep. There is no culpability. No license plate number to report the cyclist. He's gone unless there is an accident that disables his bike.


Motorists who drive recklessly/illegally have people take down the plate number and if the authorities don't catch the car on the road, you can be sure that there will be a cop visiting the address on the registration.

Hey, I'll put a license plate on my bike if you really think that it will help... sure doesn't seem to slow down the speeding motorists though.

These things are now true due to the fact that I have said them.

1. Cops need to give more tickets specifically for the act of riding on the wrong side of the road. This is the number one most dangerous thing people do on bicycles. Worse than riding on sidewalks, worse than running stops. As far as I'm concerned, they can ignore every other cycling transgression there is but that one.

2. Bikes or the people who ride them do not need to be licensed. I consider that an assault on basic freedoms.

3. Anyone who rides on the wrong side of the road to avoid riding a longer distance is not a cyclist. They are a lazy person who is using a bike because they don't want to have to walk. A true cyclist enjoys riding so much, that they gladly go out of their way to ride more. I ride an extra two miles on my commute just to avoid some railroad tracks.

Nice attempt at trying to explain it away; ... snip ... Guy is most likely never going to be caught because the cops have nothing to go on..

hm. you're right: maybe we should also start making pedestrians wear "license plates" too. no level of authoritarian intrusion into our lives is enough to prevent traffic violations.

seriously, though: cars are licensed because the are potentially deadly. there is no comparison between 180lbs of bike and rider at a max speed of 40 km/h and 2 tonnes of steel at 90 km/h. none. we license cars and drivers and not bikes and riders for the same reason we license fully automatic firearms and not bb guns.

if you want to live in a nation where the government feels comfortable regulating every aspect of human behaviour to ensure curteousness and convenience, i'm sure you can find some candidate nations and move there.

These things are now true due to the fact that I have said them.

1. Cops need to give more tickets specifically for the act of riding on the wrong side of the road. This is the number one most dangerous thing people do on bicycles. Worse than riding on sidewalks, worse than running stops. As far as I'm concerned, they can ignore every other cycling transgression there is but that one.



That's not where the outrage lies. Whenever a cycling story appears in the paper, on the news websites, etc. the #1 comment by far is:

"I have never seen ONE cyclist stop for a red light or a stop sign. They are so arrogant that they think they can ignore ANY of the laws us drivers have to follow every day."

Guaranteed that will be one of the first comments every single time. Of course we cyclists are well aware of the hypocrisy with this statement, but just because it reeks with hypocrisy doesn't mean we can dismiss it.

Why is it such a hot button issue with motorists? Because they think we are getting one up on society. Why should they have to sit through a red light or stop at a stop sign (which many drivers don't do) when some scofflaw cyclists can just ignore them and get where they want to go quicker than a driver?

It's the same feeling seeing some driver going 40 over the speed limit and you hope there's a cop over just the next rise. The only difference is we generally don't equate one driver's bad actions with the entire group.

What can be done to change this mentality in drivers? Well you would think the obvious answer would be to stop at all lights and signs, but if drivers aren't 100% compliant is it really realistic to expect cyclists to do it? No,there has to be another answer here, I just don't know what it is.

The only thing I don't see done badly by some is flying. Rigorous licensing and a high natural selection penalty.

:roflmao2: That's a good one!

Why is it such a hot button issue with motorists? Because they think we are getting one up on society.

i think you make a good point here.

Sigh, it appears that no specific criticism, and it was specific, of bicyclists is ever warranted here. :crash:

Because you're trying to solve a problem that's a little bit overblown. Nothing irritates me as much as a wrong-way biker, but it's not the biggest problem out there. A wrong-way driver is much much deadlier.

A wrong-way pilot... not so much. Those air force f-16s tend to correct those real quick.

It's all about scale. As much as we'd like to see this problem fixed, it's not the biggest issue. Just flip the biker a bird and get on your way. Plus, I'm more worried about jaywalkers than wrong-way bikers. :twitchy:

The only thing I don't see done badly by some is flying.

It's obvious you don't fly or are member of a flying club... :D

hm. you're right: maybe we should also start making pedestrians wear "license plates" too. no level of authoritarian intrusion into our lives is enough to prevent traffic violations.

seriously, though: cars are licensed because the are potentially deadly. there is no comparison between 180lbs of bike and rider at a max speed of 40 km/h and 2 tonnes of steel at 90 km/h. none. we license cars and drivers and not bikes and riders for the same reason we license fully automatic firearms and not bb guns.

if you want to live in a nation where the government feels comfortable regulating every aspect of human behaviour to ensure curteousness and convenience, i'm sure you can find some candidate nations and move there.


See now you run off into the absurd. The original post was about why cyclists have a bad rep and why. It's due to the fact that there is zero culpability for cyclists' actions. I try to explain that viewpoint and get inundated with the motorists are MORE terrible line of argument. I never advocated ANYTHING about license plates for bicyclists or pedestrians or pogosticks. For some reason, you want to characterize my posts as advocating some type of Orwellian society. You are not only off the shoulder of this thread, you are in the woods crashed in a ditch.

I used the license plate example not to advocate for it, but to help to explain why people have a poor opinion of cyclists: when they see dangerous cyclist behavior there is really nothing that they can do to help stop it. And because there is no penalty for engaging in this dangerous behavior, it continues until someone is injured (bicyclist, motorist or both).

I just provided an example of why cyclists get the bad rep. There is no culpability. No license plate number to report the cyclist. He's gone unless there is an accident that disables his bike.

While I agree with the OP, the above doesn't matter because the below doesn't happen.


Motorists who drive recklessly/illegally have people take down the plate number and if the authorities don't catch the car on the road, you can be sure that there will be a cop visiting the address on the registration.

I have only ever heard of this happening on a military base where I was once stationed. The military being a closed society within American society. Even if it did happen, all law enforcement can do, if they didn't witness the alleged charge, is talk to the person. If they even find the person who will admit to driving that vehicle at the time.

I do have a standing offer from a law enforcement friend of mine, who is a cyclist and lurks BF, to report license plate numbers of harassers to him and he will go talk to them. But that is an isolated case. I highly doubt if most cyclists have this asset.

... [ad hominems snipped]... I try to explain that viewpoint and get inundated with ... [victim complex stuff snipped] ... For some reason, you want to characterize my ... [victim complex] ... You are not only off the shoulder of this thread... [ad hominem snipped]

okay, now for some content...


I used the license plate example not to advocate for it, but to help to explain why people have a poor opinion of cyclists:

so... people hate cyclists because we don't have license plates? man, i really can't figure out what you're advocating here. i mean, the only cyclists that have license plates where i live are messengers... and they seem to be the only ones that anyone ever complains about.



when they see dangerous cyclist behavior there is really nothing that they can do to help stop it. And because there is no penalty for engaging in this dangerous behavior, it continues until someone is injured (bicyclist, motorist or both).

huh? there's no penalty for dangerous behaviour? in pretty much all districts in north america the law allows for cops to write tickets to cyclists. they just usually don't bother because they deem doing so a waste of their time.

secondly: have you ever actually called up the police and reported a car, complete with license plate number, for doing something like running a red light? you should give it a try and come back and report to us all here :)

thirdly: cyclists are identified by police the same way pedestrians are. it's not like people are suddenly invisibile or unidentifiable when they get on a bike.

lastly: yes, the cyclist you mentioned in the original post rides like a dufus -- at least according to your description. however i wonder
a) what whinging on the internet is going to do about it
b) why a tiny minority of cyclists driving recklessly affects your safety. and don't give me this "creates a bad impression with the motorists" argument. i almost got my head taken off by the rearview mirror of a city water truck a month ago. i am not on a vendetta against all water truck drivers, or all drivers with rearview mirrors or whatever. the only people who extrapolate the action of an individual to an entire population are either psychotic or fictional.
c) why on a cycling "advocacy" forum you spend so much time critiquing a cyclist when motorists commit far more egregious driving infractions with much greater costs to life and property every day. i mean, 43,000 people are killed by cars in america every year. they're the leading cause of death for people under 18. and, yet, when faced with all this, of the 250,000,000 vehicle operators in the united states, you chose to focus on a cyclist.

Cycling the wrong way on a multi-lane one way street because the cyclist is too lazy to ride one block over to the street in the proper direction.

I got off work in Downtown DC and was standing at the crosswalk when the guy went zooming by in the wrong direction. I guess he was trying to avoid 1 block of traffic because the traffic was trapped by the light. But, let's get real here. That guy was getting a lot of disgusted looks by pedestrians. We don't need this kind of rep.

As the light changed and the cars started coming at him he zipped onto the sidewalk (which IIRC is not legal in downtown DC).


Putting all bikers in a negative light just because of what a few may do is about as mature as putting all blacks/women/minrities/etc in a negative light because of what one did. Taking that argument you could say that lousy automobile drivers give all automobile drivers a bad name.

That's not where the outrage lies. Whenever a cycling story appears in the paper, on the news websites, etc. the #1 comment by far is:

"I have never seen ONE cyclist stop for a red light or a stop sign. They are so arrogant that they think they can ignore ANY of the laws us drivers have to follow every day."

You're right. Perhaps I should have read the title of the thread more carefully. However, I'm right too in that wrong way cycling is the biggest problem and most dangerous practice.




Guaranteed that will be one of the first comments every single time. Of course we cyclists are well aware of the hypocrisy with this statement, but just because it reeks with hypocrisy doesn't mean we can dismiss it.

I'd actually like to dismiss it.



Why is it such a hot button issue with motorists? Because they think we are getting one up on society. Why should they have to sit through a red light or stop at a stop sign (which many drivers don't do) when some scofflaw cyclists can just ignore them and get where they want to go quicker than a driver?

Let's see. How about this. We all filter to the front at read lights. Take the lane. Stop. Put our feet down. Then when it turns green, slowly grind our way back up to speed.

The problem is that motorists are not aware of this perfectly legal option we have. If they were, they'd be begging us to run red lights.



It's the same feeling seeing some driver going 40 over the speed limit and you hope there's a cop over just the next rise. The only difference is we generally don't equate one driver's bad actions with the entire group.

Actually, many of us do.



What can be done to change this mentality in drivers? Well you would think the obvious answer would be to stop at all lights and signs, but if drivers aren't 100% compliant is it really realistic to expect cyclists to do it? No,there has to be another answer here, I just don't know what it is.

I vote for the Idaho plan (http://www3.state.id.us/cgi-bin/newidst?sctid=490070020.K).

These things are now true due to the fact that I have said them.

1. Cops need to give more tickets specifically for the act of riding on the wrong side of the road. This is the number one most dangerous thing people do on bicycles. Worse than riding on sidewalks, worse than running stops. As far as I'm concerned, they can ignore every other cycling transgression there is but that one.

2. Bikes or the people who ride them do not need to be licensed. I consider that an assault on basic freedoms.

3. Anyone who rides on the wrong side of the road to avoid riding a longer distance is not a cyclist. They are a lazy person who is using a bike because they don't want to have to walk. A true cyclist enjoys riding so much, that they gladly go out of their way to ride more. I ride an extra two miles on my commute just to avoid some railroad tracks.

wanna ride in the street get a license and register the bike and pay taxes otherwise stop *****ing about cars. thats the way i see it

wanna ride in the street get a license and register the bike and pay taxes otherwise stop *****ing about cars. thats the way i see it

Why? Do "cars" have some special ownership of the streets that the general public does not have?

The license is because you are driving a heavy powered machine.
The registration is because that machine has the potential to harm people and property.
Taxes? What taxes does a motorist pay that a cyclist does not... Except gas... and that is a tax on fuel... I pay similar taxes for boat fuel... and that boat never sees the road.
What about insurance, you didn't mention that... again it is needed due to the potential to harm others and property.

With your level of thinking you might as well license tax and register people... don't want them walking about now do we?

Why? Do "cars" have some special ownership of the streets that the general public does not have?

The license is because you are driving a heavy powered machine.
The registration is because that machine has the potential to harm people and property.
Taxes? What taxes does a motorist pay that a cyclist does not... Except gas... and that is a tax on fuel... I pay similar taxes for boat fuel... and that boat never sees the road.
What about insurance, you didn't mention that... again it is needed due to the potential to harm others and property.

With your level of thinking you might as well license tax and register people... don't want them walking about now do we?

if you cause a accident or crime with your bike and you somehow decide to leave the scene how are you found? cars can be traced by plates how would you go about tracking a cyclist?,a bicycle can cause damage dont act like its a toy cause it isnt. what if your recieve a ticket you dont have a so you assume you have no responsiblity to pay it or be punished for it there has to a fair system if you want half the road. taxes on fuel pay for road work and maintenance. insurance works as it should and should be imposed on riders old enough to get licenses and also take a lesson on riding bicycles on the road as drivers should on sharing the road.

if you cause a accident or crime with your bike and you somehow decide to leave the scene how are you found? cars can be traced by plates how would you go about tracking a cyclist?,a bicycle can cause damage dont act like its a toy cause it isnt. what if your recieve a ticket you dont have a so you assume you have no responsiblity to pay it or be punished for it there has to a fair system if you want half the road. taxes on fuel pay for road work and maintenance. insurance works as it should and should be imposed on riders old enough to get licenses and also take a lesson on riding bicycles on the road as drivers should on sharing the road.

If you cause an accident or crime as a pedestrian... Fill in the rest.

As for your views on road work and maintenance... again you are way off... when bikes cause the wear that a 3000 pound car does... then you can whine... until then, do some research.

Cycling the wrong way on a multi-lane one way street because the cyclist is too lazy to ride one block over to the street in the proper direction.

I got off work in Downtown DC and was standing at the crosswalk when the guy went zooming by in the wrong direction. I guess he was trying to avoid 1 block of traffic because the traffic was trapped by the light. But, let's get real here. That guy was getting a lot of disgusted looks by pedestrians. We don't need this kind of rep.

As the light changed and the cars started coming at him he zipped onto the sidewalk (which IIRC is not legal in downtown DC).

I give the bicycle rider more credit than you.
He was riding a bike.
You were standing, walking.
He rides more miles than you.

Angry or distracted drivers are the big problems I see. Bikes running stop signs/lights can tick off a lot of drivers. This is why I stick to MUPs. bk

It is only true that the public image of all cyclists is degraded because of the behavior of a few. The question is what we can best do about it.

Education and training helps some. Though it will not change the behavior of those who do not care, education, especially the informal process that gets so much accomplished, can help with the many people who would like to ride well.

As rider numbers increase, we may also see some modest help in terms of traffic enforcement.

Let's see. How about this. We all filter to the front at read lights. Take the lane. Stop. Put our feet down. Then when it turns green, slowly grind our way back up to speed.



:lol:

then I guarantee it that drivers would then complain that cyclists were filtering to the front.

"IF THEY WANT TO BE TREATED LIKE CARS, THEY SHOULD WAIT IN LINE WITH THE REST OF US DRIVERS!!!! AAARRRGGHHH CYCLISTS DRIVE ME OUT OF MY MIND!!!!"

and so on and so forth. Trust me, no matter what cyclists do, the complaints from motorists will never stop, so trying to figure out a way to play kissy face with them will just result in frustration.

They are upset that you are wasting their time by making them wait behind you. Everything else is just a strawman argument. So unless we mandate that bikes have to go a minimum of 35 mph, nothing else will appease the motorists.

Just to put it to rest (although it won't) the following will do nothing to help relations between cyclists and motorists:

license plates
registration fee
tax to pay for road upkeep
getting every cyclist to obey every traffic law in existence
PSA or community outreach
critical mass
banning spandex
striking the name "lance armstrong" from the american language

what will help? Mandating every bicycle has a 30 horse power, two stroke engine installed and every "cyclist" wear a motorcycle helmet, and everyone start calling their bike a motorcycle.

Until they do that, ride however you need to so you are safe and ignore the honks and yells from ignorant motorists.

Let's see. How about this. We all filter to the front at red lights. Take the lane. Stop. Put our feet down. Then when it turns green, slowly grind our way back up to speed.

The problem is that motorists are not aware of this perfectly legal option we have. If they were, they'd be begging us to run red lights.

OMG! :eek: How dare you speak the truth in Bike Forums!!!!

If we all thought like this what would we argue about??! :rolleyes:

wanna ride in the street get a license and register the bike and pay taxes otherwise stop *****ing about cars. thats the way i see it

I would object to needing a license and having to pay taxes to move around under my own power.

Might as well tax walking while you are at it.

What can be done to change this mentality in drivers? Well you would think the obvious answer would be to stop at all lights and signs, but if drivers aren't 100% compliant is it really realistic to expect cyclists to do it? No,there has to be another answer here, I just don't know what it is.

People minding their own friggen business would be a good start.

I got off work in Downtown DC and was standing at the crosswalk when the guy went zooming by in the wrong direction. I guess he was trying to avoid 1 block of traffic because the traffic was trapped by the light. But, let's get real here. That guy was getting a lot of disgusted looks by pedestrians. We don't need this kind of rep.

As the light changed and the cars started coming at him he zipped onto the sidewalk (which IIRC is not legal in downtown DC).

Did anyone get hurt?

what gives cyclists a bad rep?

motorists. And I say screw them.

Keep out of their way and don't slow them down. Stay to the right of the lane whenever safe and reasonable. If you do need to move into a lane, do so when it's clear, and get back over to the side as soon as you can. If you do hold up a car - acknowledge with an apologetic wave.
Do not ride erratically or dangerously. Be predictable.
Slow down for stop signs and over-emphasize that you're carefully and diligently looking for traffic to appear from nowhere before you roll through.
Always stop at red lights. When feasible stop in such a way that you do not impede traffic when the light changes. When the opposing light changes, slowly start to roll through your red light (after making sure no-ones running a red) - making it obvious that you're doing so in order to get out of their way and to not hold them up.
When you decide to ride on the sidewalk - generally because it's safer there than on the road (narrow lanes, bad surface, wet metal plates or bridges), ride slowly as if you're a mobile pedestrian and obey the pedestrian lights - don't make it look as if you went on the sidewalk just to get somewhere faster, or to avoid stopping at a light, etc.

Keep out of their way and don't slow them down. Stay to the right of the lane whenever safe and reasonable. If you do need to move into a lane, do so when it's clear, and get back over to the side as soon as you can. If you do hold up a car - acknowledge with an apologetic wave.
Do not ride erratically or dangerously. Be predictable.
Slow down for stop signs and over-emphasize that you're carefully and diligently looking for traffic to appear from nowhere before you roll through.
Always stop at red lights. When feasible stop in such a way that you do not impede traffic when the light changes. When the opposing light changes, slowly start to roll through your red light (after making sure no-ones running a red) - making it obvious that you're doing so in order to get out of their way and to not hold them up.
When you decide to ride on the sidewalk - generally because it's safer there than on the road (narrow lanes, bad surface, wet metal plates or bridges), ride slowly as if you're a mobile pedestrian and obey the pedestrian lights - don't make it look as if you went on the sidewalk just to get somewhere faster, or to avoid stopping at a light, etc.

while in some ways I see the point in this advice and so I can't totally dismiss it but basically it seems to propose play submissive to the dominant vehicle on the road and be thankful they let us use "their roads" to ride our little tiny bikes to get to our far less important destinations.

Maybe by slowly catering to the whims of motorists we'll find our way onto the roads in some capacity but I think we can do better and being a bit more assertive might help.

I am to a car when on my bike as I am in my little tiny car to a semi-trailer truck on the highway. Respectful, predictable but I don't go completely belly up for some egghead that breathes down my backside when I've got no where to move out of the way and when I do move out of their way I'm not inclined to apologize for my existence and legal use of the road.

But the reality is that they can intentionally or unintentionally do a LOT more harm to us then we to them, so we always have to be prepared to give way to them if we are to survive and not damage our group rep.

I do agree with being assertive and taking charge of situations - provided the cyclist is experienced and knows what he/she is doing, and provided it's not being done just to stuff it to the motorist. Blowing through red lights, scaring pedestrians and banging on hoods is not really being assertive - it's being overly aggressive and disrespectful of other road users.

What gives cyclists a bad rep? Nothing. However idiots on bicycles might give themselves a bad rep as an individual cyclist from time to time.

That's not where the outrage lies. Whenever a cycling story appears in the paper, on the news websites, etc. the #1 comment by far is:

"I have never seen ONE cyclist stop for a red light or a stop sign. They are so arrogant that they think they can ignore ANY of the laws us drivers have to follow every day."

Guaranteed that will be one of the first comments every single time. Of course we cyclists are well aware of the hypocrisy with this statement, but just because it reeks with hypocrisy doesn't mean we can dismiss it.

Why is it such a hot button issue with motorists? Because they think we are getting one up on society. Why should they have to sit through a red light or stop at a stop sign (which many drivers don't do) when some scofflaw cyclists can just ignore them and get where they want to go quicker than a driver?

It's the same feeling seeing some driver going 40 over the speed limit and you hope there's a cop over just the next rise. The only difference is we generally don't equate one driver's bad actions with the entire group.

What can be done to change this mentality in drivers? Well you would think the obvious answer would be to stop at all lights and signs, but if drivers aren't 100% compliant is it really realistic to expect cyclists to do it? No,there has to be another answer here, I just don't know what it is.

it would seem to me that most of the people on the road don't know or understand the law governing cycling. i hadn't looked up my states law on biking until just a few days ago and what i found is quite interesting. i found the following quote in my states laws governing bikes responsibility as it applies to stopping

"A person operating a bicycle or human-powered vehicle approaching a stop sign shall slow down and, if required for safety, stop before entering the intersection. After slowing to a reasonable speed or stopping, the person shall yield the right-of-way to any vehicle in the intersection or approaching on another highway so closely as to constitute an immediate hazard during the time the person is moving across or within the intersection or junction of highways, except that a person after slowing to a reasonable speed and yielding the right-of-way if required, may cautiously make a turn or proceed through the intersection without stopping."

i'm not entirely sure but i think (at least in idaho we can roll through stops under certain conditions).
i guess my point is that drivers don't know as much of bike law as they probably should

it would seem to me that most of the people on the road don't know or understand the law governing cycling. i hadn't looked up my states law on biking until just a few days ago and what i found is quite interesting. i found the following quote in my states laws governing bikes responsibility as it applies to stopping

"A person operating a bicycle or human-powered vehicle approaching a stop sign shall slow down and, if required for safety, stop before entering the intersection. After slowing to a reasonable speed or stopping, the person shall yield the right-of-way to any vehicle in the intersection or approaching on another highway so closely as to constitute an immediate hazard during the time the person is moving across or within the intersection or junction of highways, except that a person after slowing to a reasonable speed and yielding the right-of-way if required, may cautiously make a turn or proceed through the intersection without stopping."

i'm not entirely sure but i think (at least in idaho we can roll through stops under certain conditions).
i guess my point is that drivers don't know as much of bike law as they probably should

That law is only in Idaho... the rest of us just dream about it. :D

On the flipside it is National Stop on Red week for motorists... as they too have issues with actually stopping... but tend to not see their own errors.

http://safety.fhwa.dot.gov/intersections/srlr_week.htm
http://www.stopredlightrunning.com/
http://www.ohsonline.com/articles/65718/

Nothing gives all cyclists a bad rep than riding a bicycle. That is all. You are doing something different to everybody else.

If everybody road a bicycle, 'they' would have a thing about people riding clipless, or with drop handlebars, or with pink handlebar tape. It's appears to be something humans do.

Motorists who drive recklessly/illegally have people take down the plate number and if the authorities don't catch the car on the road, you can be sure that there will be a cop visiting the address on the registration.

:lol::lol::lol:

haha, you really believe this? Do you live in Mayberry?

if you cause a accident or crime with your bike and you somehow decide to leave the scene how are you found? cars can be traced by plates how would you go about tracking a cyclist?,a bicycle can cause damage dont act like its a toy cause it isnt. what if your recieve a ticket you dont have a so you assume you have no responsiblity to pay it or be punished for it there has to a fair system if you want half the road. taxes on fuel pay for road work and maintenance. insurance works as it should and should be imposed on riders old enough to get licenses and also take a lesson on riding bicycles on the road as drivers should on sharing the road.

. . . and I am listening to the news account of a fatal hit and run involving a Mercedes. No one was able to get the license plate. Now if the driver had been riding a bike, he/she might have chosen to flee (if not physically disabled by the impact), but at tremendous speeds approaching what, 15 - 20 mph tops. To me, that's the weakness in your argument. Further, while a fatality as the result of a collision between a pedestrian and a bike cannot be ruled out, the lower vehicle speed and lighter mass involved makes it much less likely. In fact, the lower speed most likely would have allowed for avoidance resulting in, perhaps, a close call rather than an accident.

All of these contrasts add up to support the case for non-licensing of cyclists and their vehicles.

Makes sense to me.

Caruso

Cycling the wrong way on a multi-lane one way street because the cyclist is too lazy to ride one block over to the street in the proper direction.

I got off work in Downtown DC and was standing at the crosswalk when the guy went zooming by in the wrong direction. I guess he was trying to avoid 1 block of traffic because the traffic was trapped by the light. But, let's get real here. That guy was getting a lot of disgusted looks by pedestrians. We don't need this kind of rep.

As the light changed and the cars started coming at him he zipped onto the sidewalk (which IIRC is not legal in downtown DC).

So, other than trampling your sensibilities, what damage did this cyclist do? Did he hit anyone, come close, cause motor vehicular traffic to swerve drastically to avoid colliding with him (you state that he escaped to the sidewalk as the signal changed, so, I reckon he wisely avoided interfering with oncoming motor vehicular traffic)?

It sounds to me as though you just bristled with disgust as this cyclist rode by. It sounds as if, while technically in violation of statues to the contrary (and in gross defiance to your sensibilities), he caused or contributed to no dangerous conditions on the roadway, wisely opting for the sidewalk as soon as the light changed to allow oncoming traffic to move.

. . . and you make the assumption that he is too lazy to ride one block over to select a street tagged for traffic flow in the opposite direction. Of course, you have no clue as to where this rider's trip originated or where it might have ended. If his route encompassed a block or two between two buildings on the same street, would you, in his (bike) shoes, really have traveled over one block and back to make that trip? Was he really defying safety to ride the wrong direction on the street, or, was he enhancing practical safety by electing to ride off of the side walk when traffic was immobilized by the traffic signal so as to minimize the time spent riding the sidewalk.

We don't know, but, as a cyclist, I'm more inclined to grant him the benefit of the doubt. His actions resulted in no close calls, he encumbered no oncoming traffic, and he wasn't close to encountering you as a pedestrian. It seems to me your rant is just that . . . a rant. Ease up. Take a deep breath, and, instead of walking, ride your bike next time.

Caruso

Motorists who drive recklessly/illegally have people take down the plate number and if the authorities don't catch the car on the road, you can be sure that there will be a cop visiting the address on the registration.


:lol::lol::lol:

haha, you really believe this? Do you live in Mayberry?

I wish this was true. I have had people run me off the road on my bike and when I called the police they did not even create an incident report. Because I was not injured.

To the people who advocate registrations for bike riders and pedestrians. What about some form of mark on our foreheads or hands, and anyone who does not comply will not be able to buy or sell? Then we could make sure everyone was "sharing the load"

And to those who say that the actions of some other cyclist reflect badly on all cyclists. That is just like saying that the actions of one gay/black/asian/mexican has given the entire gay/black/asian/mexican a bad name. It is prejudiced thinking and it does not help anyone.

I called the cops on a guy one time. They actually had other reports of bad behavior about this idiot that day, but all they did was give me his name and address.

I called the cops on a guy one time. They actually had other reports of bad behavior about this idiot that day, but all they did was give me his name and address.

Seriously? Did they give you a deputy badge and a gun as well?

Seems like an odd thing to do, really, unless they approve of vigilantism.

2. Bikes or the people who ride them do not need to be licensed. I consider that an assault on basic freedoms.

You don't want to be licensed but you expect the same privledges as the registered automobile?

PS: Cycling is not a basic freedom.

You don't want to be licensed but you expect the same privledges as the registered automobile?

PS: Cycling is not a basic freedom.

Moving about under my own power is. You want that we should license people for walking too?

The registration and license aspect of the automobile is due to the fact that it is a powered, potentially dangerous vehicle that requires a certain amount of provable training to operate.

If anything, I would love to see the bike cops get off the sidewalk and enforce some of the cycling rules. How well could it be enforced? That's another question. The bigger penalty is probably just getting your hand caught in the cookie jar and wasting 10 minutes of your day when doing it right could have saved you the hassle.