Folding Bikes - Swift vs. Bike Friday Pocket Rocket

I like my Swift a lot, but I just had the opportunity to try out a Bike Friday Pocket Rocket, and I think I like it even more than my Swift. It felt more stable than the Swift. There are also similar B.F. models - Pocket Rocket Pro and Llama. Any comments on the comparison?

I havent riden any and i do not have any experience with any of these bikes.

Although i think the bike friday would be a better quality bike because of their prices and better components.

But the price of bike fridays are steep so the swift might be better value for money.

I've never tried a Swift. I love my Bike Friday Pocket Rocket Pro, though. It feels like my "regular" road bike. I use it for distance riding, not commuting (I work from home and don't have a commute).

IMHO, the $700 entry level Bike Friday rides better than the $700 entry level Swift. But that's highly subjective and just one jaunt on each. The Bike Friday was significantly heavier. I would like to try one of the higher end BF models.

But which BF model are you talking about, PM? There are a bunch of totally different models. I didn't care for the Tikit. The Pocket Rocket, though, rode nice, felt like a big bike, only better, and it seemed to fit me god too. They can get expensive, though, once you get into upgrades. The "clydesdale" mod alone is $150 (I'm at the upper end of the recommended weight scale for the Pocket Rocket and over-weight for the PR Pro - 225 lbs.). They can get up near $2,000, I think. The base price for the PR is 1,000.

I'd like to get my hands on a BF NWT or PR that fit me to test ride. I tried a PR that was way too small for me so I couldn't really form much of an impression.

I have ridden the Swift Folder and assorted 20" wheel BF models. Assuming that one is somewhat close to average size, I think that they all ride well. The different BF models have slightly varying geometries. But those are much more difficult to differentiate during short rides. The big difference between the Swift and BF models is the greater drivetrain choices with the Bike Friday.

EDIT: I guess frame material should also be included. All of the BFs are chromoly whereas some Swift folders are aluminum.

I'm 215, 6'1". For me, the biggest difference between the Tikit and the Swift was the stiffness. The Tikit was much flexier, to where I felt a little worried.

I'm curious what you weigh, and whether you felt any flex difference between the Pocket Rocket and the Swift.

Why would anyone want to compare a xootr Swift with a Tikit? They are different bikes for different purposes!

Comparing the Pocket Rocket with say a Swift, now that's thought provoking! I'm trying out a Swift on Monday and look forward to it. Seems quite a bike for the money judging from this forum.

Why would anyone want to compare a xootr Swift with a Tikit? They are different bikes for different purposes!

In my case, it was because when I gave B-Fold my criteria, those are the two he suggested.

Stupidity is a factor in plenty of the things I do, but possibly not this one.

Stupidity is a factor in plenty of the things I do, but possibly not this one.You & I could form a club, you know... :p

You & I could form a club, you know... :p

The Possibly Not Stupid This Time Club? I'm in...

I did not notice any flex when I rode Lynette's demo Tikit, and the bike felt surprisingly similar to my 20" Pocket Lllama (only lighter, which was probably more to do with the Stelvio tires than anything)

Flex must be more of an issue for taller riders - at last, one advantage of being short :)

Flex must be more of an issue for taller riders - at last, one advantage of being short :)

[randy newman]Short people got no reason...[/randy newman] ;)

I'm 215, 6'1". For me, the biggest difference between the Tikit and the Swift was the stiffness. The Tikit was much flexier, to where I felt a little worried.

I'm curious what you weigh, and whether you felt any flex difference between the Pocket Rocket and the Swift.


I'm about 225, also about 6'1". I have a big upper body and short legs. I didn't give the Tikit much of a tryout. It was too cramped and upright for me, at least the way the test model was set up. The PR on the other hand was nice. It felt much more stable to me than my Swift. I've never been comfortable riding my Swift one-handed, but I tried that on the PR and it felt fine.

The Xootr Swift has a very short trail and can't be ridden no-hands. I have no problems riding one-handed, I think that's totally different to riding no-hands wrt skills.

On different bikes' 'feel', my R20, Yeah and Swift are 3 different beasts. For example, if I get on the Yeah and ride to work, it takes a few minutes to get used to it again. Then the next day on the R20, I'm weaving over the road with every pedal cycle! :eek: Another few minutes and I'm OK again. But I also know the R20 is more stable, so that is very interesting.

So, to seriously evaluate a bike, I'd have to ride it more than a few minutes to get a good idea.

Have you ever tried any of the Bike Friday models, Jur?

Not had an opprtunity so far.

I've never been comfortable riding my Swift one-handed

Neither have I, but my theory is that in addition to the twitchi-- er, the responsiveness of a 20" wheel, the handlebar's too narrow for me. (I'm actually kind of surprised at how narrow the stock part is.) I have a new one coming soon, so we'll see...

Not had an opprtunity so far.

Jur,

Cyclescience in Mitcham is the Melbourne dealership for BF, don't know what they stock apart from the Tikit. I emailed them 9 days ago about prices on various models and got NO response AT ALL :mad: ....and I thought BFs customer service was supposed to legendary. You live closer than I do, so a visit might get more answers than I did.

Jur,

Cyclescience in Mitcham is the Melbourne dealership for BF, don't know what they stock apart from the Tikit. I emailed them 9 days ago about prices on various models and got NO response AT ALL :mad: ....and I thought BFs customer service was supposed to legendary. You live closer than I do, so a visit might get more answers than I did.

I prewarned them about you Mr Gore :P

Cyclescience became BF dealers just after Lynette breezed through here a month or 2 ago. I havent' been to their shop even though it is down the road from where I work. I doubt they have any demo stock except maybe Lynette's tikit which she never got back to me about after I indicated interest and proceeded along the road of hammering out the details. I'm not feeling too positive about it all. :mad:

Regarding prices, I understood that BFs here would be same as the US price plus $300 shipping.

Other than the Tikit model, there has been surprisingly little written here about the Bike Fridays.

Neither have I, but my theory is that in addition to the twitchi-- er, the responsiveness of a 20" wheel, the handlebar's too narrow for me. (I'm actually kind of surprised at how narrow the stock part is.) I have a new one coming soon, so we'll see...

I have a wide handlebar - the Delta Ergo bar - on my Swift. Still twitchy. The Pocket Rocket I tried had narrower drop bars.

I have a wide handlebar - the Delta Ergo bar - on my Swift. Still twitchy.

Any better leverage when climbing, though? That's my main issue.

I'm not feeling too positive about it all. :mad:

That is putting it kindly.

Other than the Tikit model, there has been surprisingly little written here about the Bike Fridays.

Probably because they have been around for a while and their qualities are well known.

Generally, you can get a test ride by either talking to a sales rep (apparently, they can sometimes point you to a local willing to let someone else take their bike for a spin), contacting a local Bike Friday club, or local dealer. There are lot of clubs in the states. I do not think that there are many dealers.

Cyclescience became BF dealers just after Lynette breezed through here a month or 2 ago. I havent' been to their shop even though it is down the road from where I work. I doubt they have any demo stock except maybe Lynette's tikit which she never got back to me about after I indicated interest and proceeded along the road of hammering out the details. I'm not feeling too positive about it all. :mad:

Regarding prices, I understood that BFs here would be same as the US price plus $300 shipping.


What really annoys me is, here I am willing to enquire about BFs with a possible purchase in mind for the future and no response for 10 days now. Nobody is that busy that they can't send a short email.
Heck, give me the dealership to BF, Birdy, Swift, Brompton, Dahon and whatever else and I'll promote them, advertise them and answer EVERY enquiry very promptly.

Jur,

I think it is the custom aspect that makes Bike Fridays a bit harder to see in dealers. The most established BF dealer is Epic Cycles here in Brisbane, but even they don't carry much floor stock apart from a few standard Tikits and the odd trade-in.

I suggest you contact your local dealer (or even Peter Berra direct at Bike Friday) and find out if there are any owners near you who will let you try a test ride.

They ask all new owners if they would be willing to let prospective purchasers go for a test ride - I said yes, but have never been asked (yet).

btw, Lynette's demo Tikit could have been sold a few times over when she was in Brisbane, but she said it was already sold in Sydney - first person to hand over the money got the bike!

btw, Lynette's demo Tikit could have been sold a few times over when she was in Brisbane, but she said it was already sold in Sydney - first person to hand over the money got the bike!Hmpf. I wrote to BF, asking how should I pay!! :mad:

Any better leverage when climbing, though? That's my main issue.


Absolutely - for standing on the pedals - but for me the forward position is more important than the width.

Probably because they have been around for a while and their qualities are well known.

Generally, you can get a test ride by either talking to a sales rep (apparently, they can sometimes point you to a local willing to let someone else take their bike for a spin), contacting a local Bike Friday club, or local dealer. There are lot of clubs in the states. I do not think that there are many dealers.


No clubs here in AZ. The only Bike Friday I've seen here is owned by the mechanic at the east side Performance shop. I spoke with him once. He didn't offer to let me try his bike, nor would I expect him to, nor did I ask. I myself would be reluctant to let a stranger try out my bike. I had a bad experience once years ago. I had just returned from a 90 mile bike ride to the park where I parked my car, an upscale area north of NY, NY. A middle aged man on a clunker bike asked me if he could try out my bike, and I said OK. He took off as fast as he could, heading straight away, standing on the pedals. I got on his junk bike and caught him and stopped him, but then I wasn't sure what to do. I figured that if I beat up on the SOB or tried to hold him for the police, he might yell for help and people in the park would jump ME, since by outward appearances he looked like a respectable middle aged citizen and I looked like a dirty young wild man, so I just took my bike back from him and tossed his down on the ground. Very strange experience. He probably had a criminal record as long as my arm.

Anyway, when I was in Calif. I took the opportunity to find the Bike Friday shop, but even in CA they are hard to find and open only limited hours. The place in Oceanside is a hole in the wall that mainly seems to deal in heavyweight electric bikes and trikes. They only had two BF's, the Tikit and the Pocket Rocket. The lady who ran the place was very friendly, but not very knowledgeable (she told me that the Pocket Rocket doesn't fold, but if you're willing to spend a half hour or so you can take it apart). She said she used to also have a Birdy in stock (that's another one I'd like to try), but she couldn't figure out how to fold it, so she sent it back to Seattle.

Before I started this thread I searched the forum for Pocket Rocket threads, but they were few and far between.

[color="Blue"]
What really annoys me is, here I am willing to enquire about BFs with a possible purchase in mind for the future and no response for 10 days now. Nobody is that busy that they can't send a short email.


I think the consensus is to call them instead of communicating electronically. Your mail may have gone into their spam filter, or they may have had a lot of bad experiences with people just trolling with email.

Also a few other options: they have a 30 day guarantee or similar, so you could theoretically use that as your trial with the company. Also look at eBay auctions. You could buy and sell again if you don't like it, and probably won't lose any money in the process as they retain or gain money over time.

Many people in the forums here have learned that the only way to well evaluate something like these folders is to buy and try, and sell if necessary.

Absolutely - for standing on the pedals - but for me the forward position is more important than the width.

How so?

As it is now, I just feel like I have to keep part of my brain focused on balancing my upper body. I'd rather be totally concentrated on the sheer effort of getting up the hill, not on whether I'm going to fall over while I'm doing it.

I myself would be reluctant to let a stranger try out my bike. I had a bad experience once years ago. I had just returned from a 90 mile bike ride to the park where I parked my car, an upscale area north of NY, NY. A middle aged man on a clunker bike asked me if he could try out my bike, and I said OK. He took off as fast as he could, heading straight away, standing on the pedals. I got on his junk bike and caught him and stopped him, but then I wasn't sure what to do. I figured that if I beat up on the SOB or tried to hold him for the police, he might yell for help and people in the park would jump ME, since by outward appearances he looked like a respectable middle aged citizen and I looked like a dirty young wild man, so I just took my bike back from him and tossed his down on the ground. Very strange experience. He probably had a criminal record as long as my arm.

Weird ... glad that you caught him.

Perhaps you can try the YAK group. There might be an informal BF group in the area. You will also get good answers to your questions there. Yet another reason why there is less discussion here about Bike Fridays.

How so?

As it is now, I just feel like I have to keep part of my brain focused on balancing my upper body. I'd rather be totally concentrated on the sheer effort of getting up the hill, not on whether I'm going to fall over while I'm doing it.

I think width should matter since it should affect the responsiveness of the steering for a fixed amount of input.

Anyway, perhaps you should take a stab at mustache bars or north road bars (I like them flipped over). Nitto makes silver/chrome versions that are exquisite. Although I think you will have to get new brake levers to fit the road bars. Although I seem to recall someone making a mustache bar with MTB tube diameter. Note that the memory is fuzzy and I also seem to recall that it appears to be of poor quality.

"Anyway, perhaps you should take a stab at mustache bars or north road bars..."


Or my Delta Ergo bars...

http://www.rei.com/product/738808

Invisible - Yeah, I caught him and then I didn't know what to do with him - like once when I was a little kid and I decided to sell some of my junk on the street, and I made a lasso to catch any bullies who might come by and snatch my merchandise, cowboy style...only I never planned out what I might do with an angry bully at the end of a lasso. Luckily I never had to put this poorly planned operation into effect.

What's a YAK group?

Noteon -

"Commute: Washington Heights to Wall Street"

Do you commute daily from Washington Heights to Wall St by bike? What's your route? Inwood was my old turf, just north of you!

Yesterday I lowered my bars and I believe it made my Swift more stable. perhaps some of the skittishness that I mentioned was just because the bars were too high and I was too upright. If I want to permanently keep the bars lowered, I'll saw off the top of the handlebar tube.

Do you commute daily from Washington Heights to Wall St by bike? What's your route? Inwood was my old turf, just north of you!

Cool. I have two routes, depending on whether I'm towing my kids (which I usually am, these days).

Without kids (http://www.bikely.com/maps/bike-path/131614)

With kids: Sidewalks over to the 182nd St. Bridge, then that same route as far as 26th. Then sidewalks over to 6th Ave. Leave the trailer and kids at preschool, then ride a suddenly much faster bike over to the East Side greenway and down to Wall Street. You may have seen me mention the hill I have to get up while towing them home; it's the one that starts at the Little Red Lighthouse.

Noteon - The map you posted shows you going down the West Side Highway. How can you do that? There's no place for bikes on it.

Noteon - The map you posted shows you going down the West Side Highway. How can you do that? There's no place for bikes on it.

If you zoom all the way in and switch to Satellite view, you'll see it's the Henry Hudson Greenway, which is right next to the West Side Highway for long stretches.

I may also have been sloppy with the mouse wherever you happen to be looking.

HH Greenway? Wow, that must be something new! I moved away from NY at the end of 1996.

Many years ago, when I raced in Central Park, I'd first cycle all the way down to the park from Inwood. Later on I'd sometimes walk from Dyckman Street downtown to by the Pt Authority bus terminal where I worked, and I'd walk along the river as much as I could, which was very strange walk, especially the northern part between Dyckman and the GW bridge - very quiet, long-abandoned boat docks and recreational areas, quite remote, hard to believe I was in Manhattan. Not recommended unless you are armed to the teeth because you never know what you might run into, tho, luckily, I never encountered trouble down there.

Invisible - Yeah, I caught him and then I didn't know what to do with him - like once when I was a little kid and I decided to sell some of my junk on the street, and I made a lasso to catch any bullies who might come by and snatch my merchandise, cowboy style...only I never planned out what I might do with an angry bully at the end of a lasso. Luckily I never had to put this poorly planned operation into effect.

What's a YAK group?

Ahhhh ... you should head over there now.

http://store.bikefriday.com/mailman/listinfo/yak

You will see Alex W. there as well as others who have not identified themselves here. Although figuring out who is who is straightforward.

There are a couple of iffy stretches, most significantly the one just above 162nd, which has no lights and is on the general portion of greenway where you're most likely to encounter skeevy people.

It's fine during the day, but coming back at night you can't help but realize (as you manually swivel your headlight this way and that to illuminate all the hiding places) that this is the perfect place for an ambush.

Other than that, it's a generally good route.

And to bring this threadjacking back around: I ride my SWIFT, which is not a BIKE FRIDAY, on it almost every day!

"Anyway, perhaps you should take a stab at mustache bars or north road bars..."


Or my Delta Ergo bars...

http://www.rei.com/product/738808

That is probably a cheaper alternative considering the cost of replacing brakes and such.

Or my Delta Ergo bars...

I got tired of not being sure what to get and just went and ordered these. Thanks for the pointer.

Before I started this thread I searched the forum for Pocket Rocket threads, but they were few and far between.

I have a Pocket Rocket Pro and I am very fond of it. I am not a clydesdale, but perhaps I can answer some of your questions.

Yak is the Bike Friday forums. It's in email format, and it's best to get the daily digest version. Lots of good info and enthusiasm. http://store.bikefriday.com/mailman/listinfo/yak

I bought my bike directly from BF and had no problems at all with them. They were very helpful and timely.

There are a couple of iffy stretches, most significantly the one just above 162nd, which has no lights and is on the general portion of greenway where you're most likely to encounter skeevy people.

It's fine during the day, but coming back at night you can't help but realize (as you manually swivel your headlight this way and that to illuminate all the hiding places) that this is the perfect place for an ambush.

Other than that, it's a generally good route.

And to bring this threadjacking back around: I ride my SWIFT, which is not a BIKE FRIDAY, on it almost every day!

Crime rates are increasing, but I've been cycling to entire HH Greenway every day for the past 4 years (save the time I'm out of the country), and the biggest problem I've had is taxis turning to cross the greenway at 40th street. (We need to call 311 for that.)

I fought hard in city council meetings to get the Prince Street bike lane in, and now there is a bikeway all the way from my house in Chinatown to my work at 168th St.

New York City is now laced with bike lanes everywhere and parking spaces are being removed to make way for them. The city has become a paradise for bicyclists. I don't agree with all of Bloomberg's ideas, but bike policy gets 5 stars.

There are still some mistakes. The Ocean Parkway greenway in Brooklyn is dangerous, and the greenways around the fair grounds in Queens have some breaks into dangerous traffic as well. But the Bronx is the absolute king of bikeways.