Commuting - commuting in a rough neighbourhood

I am seriously thinking of commuting to and from work. It is about 10 miles each way, which doesn't bother me but the last mile or so is through some rough neighbourhoods. In the morning I don't see this being a problem but there are some concerns for the trip home. I can go around the majority of it by taking a different route but some of my family is concerned that someone might try and rob/mug me at a stop light. I have seen others commute through this area and they seem to be fine so I was wondering if this had ever been a problem for anyone or if I should be ok as long as I keep an eye on my surroundings.

Whatever you do, don't wear spandex!

Define rough neighborhood

Check out this thread.

http://www.bikeforums.net/showthread.php?t=440474

Some good advice there, I also ride through dodgy neighbourhoods; I have a very strong headlight mounted on my helmet, people have assured me they cannot look directly into it.

Also I "ride light", (loose, move down a gear or 2, ready to sprint away), and I am prepared to out manoeuvre dodgy looking people. I check people out, move away from curbs if someone looks like they may cause trouble out into the middle of the lane. I also approach lights slowly and try and time it so I don't actually stop, (without running reds of course).

Whatever you do, don't wear spandex!

:wtf:

Whatever you do, don't wear spandex!

And why would you say that? Are people just waiting to rob people based on what they wear?

I ride with regular road bike clothing (spandex) through a marginal neighborhood. I'm not sure if what I wear has anything to do with making me more of a target. Educate me.

Just keep your eyes open and your finger on the button of some pepper spray when you are
at that one light.

If you have to use it you better start taking another route afterwards.

And why would you say that? Are people just waiting to rob people based on what they wear?

Educate me.

Yes, REALLY !!
It doesnt warrant getting into stuff that might offend people or derail the thread
but 'urban camoflage' is a very important safety feature for commuting through
bad areas. All the stuff I said Id never do or become went out the window when
my commute went through Riviera Beach in FL., one of the highest concentrations
of violent gangs in the country. Over time I have found that looking homeless has
helped. If you've ever been chased, have people block you with a car to sell drugs,
or get the 'Thats my bike' by a gang of angry teens twice a week you'd understand
better. Now, I dress down, ride a beater and have more weapons than DiNero in
Taxi Driver and Im OK. If you look like you have -anything- worth 5.00 they will
try to take it.

It is highly rare and random someone will mess with a cyclist on the street. We are the lowest on the transportation totem pole. I would be more concerned about a remote rails to trails path through an industrial wasteland. When I lived in Mpls there were cyclists getting jumped "just for kicks." But even there, I don't think there is much to be concerned about.

It is far more dangerous biking in the "safe" suburbs with traffic flying by at 60 when it is posted for 40--- angry soccer moms on the phone, etc. My worst altercations were always in the suburbs--- even as a pedestrian.

i ride through some somewhat sketchy areas but noone really bothers me. In poor areas there are alot of people on bikes but not many cyclist. I don't wear spandex for other reasons but it also helps not attract attention to yourself. Don't act timid, say hello to people, don't be affraid to look people in the eye, and be fast. While a weapon could be useful if your in a neighborhood and being attacked you will be out numbered quickly. And yes if your bike looks obviosly expensive get a beater.

Yes, REALLY !!
It doesnt warrant getting into stuff that might offend people or derail the thread
but 'urban camoflage' is a very important safety feature for commuting through
bad areas. All the stuff I said Id never do or become went out the window when
my commute went through Riviera Beach in FL., one of the highest concentrations
of violent gangs in the country. Over time I have found that looking homeless has
helped. If you've ever been chased, have people block you with a car to sell drugs,
or get the 'Thats my bike' by a gang of angry teens twice a week you'd understand
better. Now, I dress down, ride a beater and have more weapons than DiNero in
Taxi Driver and Im OK. If you look like you have -anything- worth 5.00 they will
try to take it.

Thank you. This is the kind of stuff people should be aware of. If you want to blaze through rough streets dressed like Superman/Bozo the clown, be prepared to deal with the consequences. Otherwise, try to blend in whenever possible.


i ride through some somewhat sketchy areas but noone really bothers me. In poor areas there are alot of people on bikes but not many cyclist. I don't wear spandex for other reasons but it also helps not attract attention to yourself. Don't act timid, say hello to people, don't be affraid to look people in the eye, and be fast. While a weapon could be useful if your in a neighborhood and being attacked you will be out numbered quickly. And yes if your bike looks obviosly expensive get a beater.

Exactly. Assert yourself without drawing attention to yourself. If you have a four grand bike, you can afford a forty dollar one. If you have a jersey, you can afford a t-shirt. The point is to get from zone A to zone B without getting stopped. The fewer heads you turn, the better.

Be wary. Keep your head up. Make eye contact with people. Be prepared to sprint away. In traffic keep escape routes open. And if somebody does attack you, fight back with maximum force, then get away.

stop worrying and just ride. if something happens just deal with it.

Define rough neighborhood

I have the same question: what makes a rough neighborhood?

I ride past a housing project, but it's one of the roads with lots of traffic. I've not seen anyone that appears to be a threat, but have only been commuting a few weeks.

If I don't see gangs of teenagers and obvious drug deals, but mostly older folks standing by the bus stop or walking to the store, it is still worth avoiding? I can add about 5 miles and a few hills and avoid this area, but have not seen anything (yet) to make me take another route.

Get one of those "Driver carries no cash" signs on a t-shirt for the trip home.

Yes, REALLY !!
It doesnt warrant getting into stuff that might offend people or derail the thread
but 'urban camoflage' is a very important safety feature for commuting through
bad areas. All the stuff I said Id never do or become went out the window when
my commute went through Riviera Beach in FL., one of the highest concentrations
of violent gangs in the country. Over time I have found that looking homeless has
helped. If you've ever been chased, have people block you with a car to sell drugs,
or get the 'Thats my bike' by a gang of angry teens twice a week you'd understand
better. Now, I dress down, ride a beater and have more weapons than DiNero in
Taxi Driver and Im OK. If you look like you have -anything- worth 5.00 they will
try to take it.

I grew up in a bad neighborhood, and I completely agree with this advice. If you wear spandex and bright jerseys and have a really nice bike, you will be a marked target by anyone standing around with nothing better to do.


In poor areas there are alot of people on bikes but not many cyclist.

Exactly. It helps to look more like "some dude on a bike" and not a "cyclist." That's why I normally ride through these areas in cargo shorts, basketball shorts, or jeans with the leg rolled up. And an ordinary shirt. If the neighborhood is bad enough to worry about, just blend in and you're fine.

Yes, REALLY !!
It doesnt warrant getting into stuff that might offend people or derail the thread
but 'urban camoflage' is a very important safety feature for commuting through
bad areas. All the stuff I said Id never do or become went out the window when
my commute went through Riviera Beach in FL., one of the highest concentrations
of violent gangs in the country. Over time I have found that looking homeless has
helped. If you've ever been chased, have people block you with a car to sell drugs,
or get the 'Thats my bike' by a gang of angry teens twice a week you'd understand
better. Now, I dress down, ride a beater and have more weapons than DiNero in
Taxi Driver and Im OK. If you look like you have -anything- worth 5.00 they will
try to take it.
Lem is right.

stop worrying and just ride. if something happens just deal with it.


In Lebanon, Ohio, maybe. Try rolling through the west side of Dayton. (seriously, DON'T...)

"Jonahhobbes' laid out good advice, about the bright light, and saving momentum. If someone yells, 'Hey; come here!', etc., be ready to sprint like you're going for the wire to win a stage. Better yet, roll an extra mile or two and avoid the whole scene. You can beat most trouble by being on guard, but it takes some of the fun out of the ride. Same deal as riding in heavy traffic. I *can* do it, but why would I want to unless I needed to?

Be wary. Keep your head up. Make eye contact with people. Be prepared to sprint away. In traffic keep escape routes open. And if somebody does attack you, fight back with maximum force, then get away.

Buzzzzzzzz! Wrong. Avoiding eye contact is rule number one in rough neighborhoods.

Carry a gun. Get a permit, get some good training, and stop being a potential victim.

My Glock 36 .45 fits perfectly in my tail bag, and is readily available if the situation warrants some lethal leverage.

There are many, many tactics to increase your safety and avoid confrontation, and I recommend you listen to everyone else about those, as my opinions are a bit polarized.



*prepares for naysayers*

kel-tek .32 ;)

Really tho.....I stopped giving hand signals too, because
the rolling gangsters took this for a 'Lets Deal' signal
more than once before I figured out I was inviting some of this
stuff.

kel-tek .32 ;)


Nice work...that's not a bad choice at all.

My commute is safe, quiet and fast for the most part, but I've been in the ***** a few times when I least expected it.

Oh, and here's another tip: If you are going to carry a gun on your person while riding, make sure you practice drawing and firing while wearing your bicycling gear. Carry it in your pack or tail bag? Practice drawing from there, etc...muscle memory and training make a world of difference when your adrenaline is through the roof and your life is in danger.

Possibly a belly band rather than a tail bag if you get separated from your bike, and some stress shooting time at the range-all the permits in the world don't do a lot of good if you can't shoot straight under stress and adrenaline.

MMMmmmmMMM..... .45. Stay down......Stay down NOW.

Possibly a belly band rather than a tail bag if you get separated from your bike, and some stress shooting time at the range-all the permits in the world don't do a lot of good if you can't shoot straight under stress and adrenaline.


Exactly. Go run a mile, do 50 pushups, and THEN hit your target at 10 yards. We practice stress shooting techniques at work consistently, and it makes a huge difference.

Belly band is a good idea, I would hate to get separated from my gun and give it to the enemy just becuase it was in my tailbag. I've been thinking about an even smaller conceal gun, as even the baby Glock is a bit big for hiding on the body while riding. I am a HUGE fan of the .45 round....as far as pistols go, it officially puts dicks in the dirt.

:P

Ive had the opportunity to try some of the newer smaller framed .45 acps. These are not your Daddy's 1911 for sure. Pretty light, full of bigger brother features (rails for sights/lights) etc.

I also read a series of books by Laurel K. Hamilton, and while she herself is not into weapons, her protagonist (an investigator of sorts, at 5' 3" ish) is. Ms. Hamilton does a lot of sound research and has a lot of friends in the St. Louis PD that assist her finding weapons for her character(s) smaller statures. You still won't find a .22 or .38 in the bunch unless it's ankled and classified as the 'oh sh*t' gun.

You still won't find a .22 or .38 in the bunch unless it's ankled and classified as the 'oh sh*t' gun.


Agreed. An 'oh sh*t' gun definitely has it's merits, but if I was going to carry a small revolver, it would likely be a .41 magnum or .357.

I'm a big believer in multi-systems trauma when it comes to dispatching would-be assailants, and the little rounds just don't quite achieve the tissue damage that the high-pressure rounds do. The pressure wave alone from the .41 mag is enough to blow your ribs apart, even without the projectile.

We have now succesfully taken this thread WAY off-topic....I now return you to your regularly-scheduled commuting thread.

Hua.

I would go with the homless bum look and a revolver. I'm an expert shot with both handgun and longgun, but I like the point and shoot of my S&W 642.

Stay on condition Orange and ride like hell.

Jerry

I'd freaking move, get a different job, or not even ride. My preference is to avoid those locations (AKA I am a chicken )

Outside of the gun-nuts (sorry guys), I also ride about 1.5 miles through some of West Philadelphia's more "timid" streets in my commute (Springfield from Cobb's Creek to Baltimore). I see mainly older black people just living, tween-aged girls seemingly doing nothing abnormal, some girls in their 20s minding their own business, and rarely a few "gangsta" looking guys. During the morning no one is out anyway, and in the post-dinner evening (6-7) it is mainly little kids hanging out. I never have seen big groups of gangsta kids. I don't think I need a gun for the off-chance some kid gets near me.

Overall my technique is to not look at the townsfolk, mind my own business, and ride faster than a just-putzing-along pace. During winter once it gets dark by 5 I may have to resort to taking the train. There is no way around the area without going through the airport (major slums and shady low-lives around that place) or way through the countryside.

Agreed. An 'oh sh*t' gun definitely has it's merits, but if I was going to carry a small revolver, it would likely be a .41 magnum or .357.

I'm a big believer in multi-systems trauma when it comes to dispatching would-be assailants, and the little rounds just don't quite achieve the tissue damage that the high-pressure rounds do. The pressure wave alone from the .41 mag is enough to blow your ribs apart, even without the projectile.

We have now succesfully taken this thread WAY off-topic....I now return you to your regularly-scheduled commuting thread.

Blimey the conversation around the dinner table at your house must be stimulating :eek:

And why would you say that? Are people just waiting to rob people based on what they wear?

I ride with regular road bike clothing (spandex) through a marginal neighborhood. I'm not sure if what I wear has anything to do with making me more of a target. Educate me.

I doubt they'll rob you. Just beat you up ;). I have no idea, but if I were angry at the world I'd probably go after people in lycra.

Sincerely,
A guy who wears spandex on his fun rides.

I'd freaking move, get a different job, or not even ride.

+1
Anytime you have to start packing a gun just to ride to work, it's time to consider the above. Seriously.

+1
Anytime you have to start packing a gun just to ride to work, it's time to consider the above. Seriously.

Thank y'all for proving not all Americans reach for their guns before their common sense. Honestly, people. If you need firearms to make it to your day job, unless you work for the military, the police, or private security, it's really time to find a different job/route. If not, we might as well all move to Baghdad.

I'd freaking move, get a different job, or not even ride. My preference is to avoid those locations (AKA I am a chicken )

I did exactly that ^. I used to live in Riverside, CA which was once known as the meth capitol of the world. Now I live in idyllic New Hampshire. Crime, EW! This is not an option for everyone naturally, but it is the best option in the long run.

I live in midwestern NE-pretty idyllic. Lincoln only has 250,000 people and the 'bad part' of town is located in two probably 12 block sections. I live in the 'nice' part of town (based on noting more than geography and there is a golf club some few miles from me, though my neighborhood is one of the oldest in Lincoln and near a college-mostly old people, college kids, and new families) though I wouldn't want to live in the overspent, cookie cutter, suburban sprawl that actually the "nice" part in the eyes of most in town.

I don't consider myself a gun nut. I consider myself a somewhat educated observer of some of the more worse parts of the human condition. My home was broken, I was on my own at 16, Ive been in the Army, Ive worked in Corrections and Security. Most people that carry concealed, or own weapons, you will statistically and personally find are the LAST to go for a weapon. We generally don't cause the escalation of the situation because we are inspected, tested, checked, rechecked, and then checked some more before being allowed to carry. We sure as heck aren't going to be an asterisk when the situation devolves, though, either. I can use my hands faster than I can use a weapon anyway.
I don't carry on my ride, though I am registered.

+1
Anytime you have to start packing a gun just to ride to work, it's time to consider the above. Seriously.

People cant just move on a whim. Thats not realistic. Im my case,
I would have never come to this forsaken dump on my own accord
and am stuck here for another 10 months, so its make due the best I
can which is what anyone would do. Im a total peace, love, woodstock
hippy so having to resort to weaponry for security is not something I
want to get used to, but for 10 more months I have to diverge from my
hippyness for self preservation. :)

Cars are even worse. The road rage here is out-of -control.

People can move out of just about any situation given enough time to plan. However, that amount of time with the housing market being what it is may very well be measured in years.

If you need firearms to make it to your day job, unless you work for the military, the police, or private security, it's really time to find a different job/route. If not, we might as well all move to Baghdad.

I understand your logic, I really do. I just disagree with it. Please keep in mind I am ex-military and a current law enforcement officer, so my bonds with society are a bit tenuous.

Your car has an airbag and seatbelts, doesn't it? You may likely never need to utilize those, but you'd never buy or drive a car without seatbelts or an airbag, would you? Would you sail in a boat without a life preserver?

I carry a gun(s) because in my hands, it's functionality has saved lives, including my own on more than one occasion. I have seen and lived through the very worst examples of human nature, and I would much rather have a gun and not need it than need a gun and not have it.

Does that serve everyone? Absolutely not. Should everyone carry concealed? That would be a resounding no. Most people have chosen an occupation that doesn't include their clients wanting them dead, so I don't force my opinion or way of life on anyone else, I just ask that you consider a reality outside your own when discussing the topic.

FWIW, relying on today's 911 system to bail you out of a trouble is an egregious error, and one that has proved fatal for many, many people.

Carry a gun. Get a permit, get some good training, and stop being a potential victim.

My Glock 36 .45 fits perfectly in my tail bag, and is readily available if the situation warrants some lethal leverage.

There are many, many tactics to increase your safety and avoid confrontation, and I recommend you listen to everyone else about those, as my opinions are a bit polarized.



*prepares for naysayers*

No, a 9mm is too heavy, especially for self defense while on a bike.

Go to beretta.com and look at their sub-compact pistols. .22 semi-automatics that hold about seven shots.

If someone attacks you and survives seven shots from a .22, he deserves your bike and wallet. He'll need to go buy duct tape to plug all the holes.

Oh, and when the zombies come, you're all welcome to come stay at my house. It'll be quite a fight.



http://volksdragon.net/images/Hardware01web.JPG

If someone attacks you and survives seven shots from a .22, he deserves your bike and wallet. He'll need to go buy duct tape to plug all the holes.


:roflmao2: :roflmao2: :roflmao2: :roflmao2:


I am envisioning some poor thief trying to patch up his holes with duct-tape, like a leaky raft. Hahahaha.

As rough as my commute is, the cars are still more
frightening to me. Really. :eek:

As rough as my commute is, the cars are still more
frightening to me. Really. :eek:


I agree. You are WAY more likely to be mowed down by some cager on his/her cell phone than you are to get into a shootout on your local M.U.P....best be prepared for both, I say!

I don't know about the "dont wear spandex" thing. I used to ride through East Palo Alto, CA...you can look it up if not familiar, without a hitch in spandex and really loud jerseys. I guess if you look like you can't carry anything of value on you because you have no pockets, you're ok too.

*Braaiiiiiiinnnnnnnsssssss.........*

Nice setup.

1. Don't do things to draw attention to yourself. You want to blend in and look like you belong, so no flashy bike, spandex shorts (by themselves, under cargo/gym shorts is fine) bright jerseys with fancy logos, fancy helmets or fancy roadie shoes.

2. Mind your own business...ride your ride, avoid confrontation with drivers and peds.

3. Pay attention to everything going on around you, which will help you spot and avoid potential trouble. At the same time you want to LOOK like you ain't paying attention and don't give a crap.

I've rode through my share of crappy neighborhoods over 30+ years, including my latest commute route. The only times I've had trouble or seen others have trouble is when they stop minding their own business or start getting confrontational with drivers or peds who do something stupid.

S&W CS 45, or Taurus pt145 subcompact .45 acp. Taurus's are made in Brazil, and are more affordable than a Sig, or HK, or Glock. They have a lifetime warranty, as well, independant of the owner.


No, a 9mm is too heavy, especially for self defense while on a bike.

Go to beretta.com and look at their sub-compact pistols. .22 semi-automatics that hold about seven shots.

If someone attacks you and survives seven shots from a .22, he deserves your bike and wallet. He'll need to go buy duct tape to plug all the holes.

I understand your logic, I really do. I just disagree with it. Please keep in mind I am ex-military and a current law enforcement officer, so my bonds with society are a bit tenuous.

Your car has an airbag and seatbelts, doesn't it? You may likely never need to utilize those, but you'd never buy or drive a car without seatbelts or an airbag, would you? Would you sail in a boat without a life preserver?

I carry a gun(s) because in my hands, it's functionality has saved lives, including my own on more than one occasion. I have seen and lived through the very worst examples of human nature, and I would much rather have a gun and not need it than need a gun and not have it.

Does that serve everyone? Absolutely not. Should everyone carry concealed? That would be a resounding no. Most people have chosen an occupation that doesn't include their clients wanting them dead, so I don't force my opinion or way of life on anyone else, I just ask that you consider a reality outside your own when discussing the topic.

FWIW, relying on today's 911 system to bail you out of a trouble is an egregious error, and one that has proved fatal for many, many people.

I can't carry my gun to work (yet) - I work for the State and it's a no-no in government buildings. I agree with Volks, though, and carry when I'm just out riding for fun or running an errand... I carry a gun because the cops around here are too damn heavy to carry on the handlebars! :D

One other option that works well for lowlifes and for dogs is some Fox Labs pepper spray:

http://www.defensedevices.com/bike-mount-bicyle-pepper-spray.html

http://us.st12.yimg.com/us.st.yimg.com/I/urdefense_2009_7901760

but some of my family is concerned that someone might try and rob/mug me at a stop light.

Don't stop. J/K I've got a rough spot on the way home too but I don't really worry about it. You're probably more likely to get hit by a car in a nice neighborhood than bikejacked in the hood.