Road Cycling - tubular, sew-up, clincher: what's the diff???

hi,

What the difference b/n tubular, sew-up and clincher wheelsets? I am looking to buy a decent used set on ebay but I dont know these distinctions mean :rolleyes:

BTW if you have a mavic etc wheelset in good condition for a reasonable price let me know.

Tubular and sew ups basically have the tube sewn up inside the tire and its glued to the rim, where clincher is a regular 700c tire with a seperate tube.
For every day riding or training you probably want the clincher if you are new to cycling...
Look on ebay for some deals on wheels..

I have found that tubulars are nice, but not very practical without a neutral support vehicle. One advantage is higher pressures, but it seems to make them flat prone. And the cost of a flat is ususlly 100% of the cost of the tire.

I have found that tubulars are nice, but not very practical without a neutral support vehicle. One advantage is higher pressures, but it seems to make them flat prone. And the cost of a flat is ususlly 100% of the cost of the tire.
I have found my clinchers to be suitable for most my riding, and cheaper.
Tho I do have a set of Tubulars I rarely use them.
As you stated the expense of a flat is most definately 100%

Can I use specialized armidillo turbos and put in a regular tube with tubular rims or can I only use that kind of tire/tube setup with clincher rims?

Thanks :D

Can I use specialized armidillo turbos and put in a regular tube with tubular rims or can I only use that kind of tire/tube setup with clincher rims?

Thanks :D
A tubular rim will work ONLY with tubular tires, A clincher rim will work ONLY with clinchers

Tufo makes a tubular that fits on a clincher rim. Seems like the worst of both worlds. Never tried them.

Tufo makes a tubular that fits on a clincher rim. Seems like the worst of both worlds. Never tried them.
I havent seen those, I stand corrected :D

clincher rims have little ridges that do a pretty good job of holding the bead of the tire on the rim while the tire is inflated. tubular rims do not have this ridge, and therefore, inflating a clincher tire/tube on a tubular rim would look pretty funny...and then it would explode....not really though...but it would definitely not stay on the rim long enough to be ride-able.

clincher rims have little ridges that do a pretty good job of holding the bead of the tire on the rim while the tire is inflated. tubular rims do not have this ridge, and therefore, inflating a clincher tire/tube on a tubular rim would look pretty funny...and then it would explode....not really though...but it would definitely not stay on the rim long enough to be ride-able.
My tubular rims are completely smooth on the edges, in fact slightly rounded out, so with my tubular rims there is no way possible for a clincher to work on mine.

thanks for the advice. I'll stay away from tubular. Its funny though... most of the wheelsets on ebay are tubular. I guess thats why people are offloading them :p

Saw this clincher set on ebay :D

There are pros and cons to both. I use tubs for about 12 years starting in the early 70's because clinchers back then were junk. Tubs are a bit lighter (average about 50 grams total for wheel, tube and tire and have a better ride feel to them, but that's the only advantage. The reason I switched to clinchers was because you need to carry a spare tub with you in case of a flat because fixing a tub flat on the road is at least a 45 minute process if you know where the hole is, but slapping on a spare tub is fairly quick (I carried 2 spare tubs PLUS a flat repair kit). To fix a tub flat you have to take (peel) the tub off the rim and cut a section of the stitching on the tub where the hole is, patch the hole as you would with any tube, then restitch the tub back up and replace on rim. Also if you do not glue the tire on properly you could have the tub tire roll off the rim on corners-this never happened to me but I saw it happen to others including watching pros on TV roll theirs off. And when you buy new tubs you have to prestretch the tire over and old rim that does not have any glue for at least 24 hours ( I usually allowed a week).

With Clinchers on the road flat repair is fairly quick, some say not as fast as replacing a tub with a spare, but I learned to only remove about 1/2 of one side of the clincher with the hole being in the middle of the half, pull the tube out where the hole is just slightly and repair using glueless patches (which I have never had a problem with and use as a permanent fix), stuff the tube back in and reseat the clincher, pump and go in about 5 minutes (front rim, rear take me about 10) if I'm in a hurry. The clincher is impossible to roll off if you don't have a flat and very difficult to roll off even if you do have a flat.

The weight advantage of a clincher tire vs a tub tire is nowadays a mute point. You can get a ultralight clincher tire to weigh 130grams and a ultralight tube at 50 grams-that's only 180 grams total, there are very few tubs that weigh that little and the ones that do cost about $100 each! Both of the above tires though are in the ultralight class and will not last long in the mileage area nor do well in flat protection-they are racing tires. You also have a much broader range of tires available with clinchers to fit your specific needs in price, weight, flat protection, durablity, handling and you can alter your tubes to fit your needs.

By the way, the new superlight 130 to 180 gram clinchers with latex tubes will rival the feel and handling of a tubular!

in order to ensure that your tubular tires will not roll off, you have to apply layer after layer of glue over a 2 day period to the rim, then apply a layer to the tire...then after you pull the tire on, you have to let it sit for at least a day, to make sure the glue is properly set. there is really no way to safely repair a flat tubular on the road, unless you carry a spare wheelset on your back...you can do what froze described, but it's just not worth the gamble. this is one of the things that makes me wary of pursuing being a race mechanic...i would always just be too freaked out and worried that a tire i glued would roll and the rider would get killed or seriously injured or something...

Saw this clincher set on ebay :D
I wouldn't buy that rim......sombody cut it in half.... :p

As someone said, sewups can be inflated to much higher pressures. Mine go to 190.

They just roll better though. The difference is quite noticeable and if they weren't a pain in the butt, I'd ride on nothing else.

Sounds like you guys either never rode tubulars, or
forgot everything you ever knew.
To fix a tubular on the road you peel the old tire, fold it
for later repair, stretch new tire onto rim, once seated
inflate, the glue already on the tire will hold it in place,
unless your descending the Alps ala Lance you're not gonna roll a tire.
If you have Tufo Tubular qlue tape you set that first and don't
worry about rolling a tire. Whole process is fairly quick, some old
pro's can change a tubular faster than you can get all your tire levers set.
Tubulars are LESS prone to flats (no pinch/snakebite flats) than clinchers.
With a tubular you can't catch the tube between the bead and rim.
oh, and as D*Alex would say "Never ride cheap tubulars"

Marty

Sounds like you guys either never rode tubulars, or
forgot everything you ever knew.
To fix a tubular on the road you peel the old tire, fold it
for later repair, stretch new tire onto rim once seated
inflate, the glue already on the tire will hold it in place,
unless your descending the Alps ala Lance you're not gonna roll a tire. Whole process is fairly quick, some old
pro's can change a tubular faster than you can get all your tire levers set.
Tubulars are LESS prone to flats (no pinch/snakebite flats) than clinchers. with a tubular you can't catch the
tube between the bead and rim.
oh, and as D*Alex would say "Never ride cheap tubulars"

Marty
Takes too much time, just have your support vehicle pull up and put another wheel on for you :D

How much time? 5 minutes? And I'm not that
fast at changing tubulars.
BTW, I'm building up a nice set of Tubulars for
my wifes Bianchi. Good italian bike needs good
tubulars, no?
Marty

How much time? 5 minutes? And I'm not that
fast at changing tubulars.
easier for someone else to do it for you tho :D

Better to be self sufficient

Better to be self sufficient
LOL okay okay you win......
But I would rather ride and not lose that 5 mins...
So when i see you on the course and if I have probs with my tubular I will stop you for assistance :D
(just to make sure I am doing it right of course) self sufficient, right?

right.
Really doesn't take all that much to change a tubular.
just make sure your spare has been stretched on a
spare rim. The old glue on the rim should hold the tire
(and its really the pressure that holds it, not the glue).
Of course this is all mute if you use the Tufo Tape.
Next time I'm in Fla, If I see you on the road I'll be
more than happy to help.
Marty

in order to ensure that your tubular tires will not roll off, you have to apply layer after layer of glue over a 2 day period to the rim, then apply a layer to the tire...then after you pull the tire on, you have to let it sit for at least a day, to make sure the glue is properly set. there is really no way to safely repair a flat tubular on the road, unless you carry a spare wheelset on your back...you can do what froze described, but it's just not worth the gamble. this is one of the things that makes me wary of pursuing being a race mechanic...i would always just be too freaked out and worried that a tire i glued would roll and the rider would get killed or seriously injured or something...

Just as you said you do have to apply layer after layer but that DOES NOT ENSURE the tire will not roll off; as you said I would not want to be a race mechanic either especially after seeing races (and even this years Tour) where these tires rolled off. The roll off thing becomes more accute when you have to go to your spare; in fact some racers will not push the hard corners as fast on the spare as they would have with the original.

Actually there were several times when I had to fix a tubular on the road because I flatted my 2 spares and did not feel like walking 10 or more miles home. This can be safetly done it just takes a long time-but not as long as walking!

Also the one thing I forgot to mention; any weight savings you have going to tubulars is lost and then some by the prospect of carrying 2 spares. And what most people also don't realize is that tubulars are not as round as clinchers due to the imperfect glue bed.

Sounds like you guys either never rode tubulars, or
forgot everything you ever knew.
To fix a tubular on the road you peel the old tire, fold it
for later repair, stretch new tire onto rim, once seated
inflate, the glue already on the tire will hold it in place,
unless your descending the Alps ala Lance you're not gonna roll a tire.
If you have Tufo Tubular qlue tape you set that first and don't
worry about rolling a tire. Whole process is fairly quick, some old
pro's can change a tubular faster than you can get all your tire levers set.
Tubulars are LESS prone to flats (no pinch/snakebite flats) than clinchers.
With a tubular you can't catch the tube between the bead and rim.
oh, and as D*Alex would say "Never ride cheap tubulars"

Marty

I have heard about the new glue tape but I do not know anyone using it, then again finding anyone today using tubulars today is difficult. And I disagree with the "less prone to flats" comment. Sure pinch and snakebite flats are eliminated but if you install a clincher correctly you eliminate those anyway and eliminate catching the tube between the bead and rim! So if your just talking about flats from road debris their about the same; BUT I am comparing the old cotton or silk ply tires that I used over 20 years ago, today they have better ply material to reduce the flat issue including kevlar, but then your talking over $90 PER TIRE, that seems obsurd to me plus not get any more mileage out of them and probably less and your weight savings advantage is now gone as well.

As I stated before, the only real advantage to tubulars is weight and how they feel on the road, but the disavantages far outweigh the advantages.

BUT PLEASE DON"T SHOOT ME, it's just my opinion, an opinion that is based on experience using both I much rather use clinchers. I have heard from other forum members who would not use clinchers and prefer only tubulars-to each their own!! Doesn't mean I'm right or their right, it's just different preferences.

right.
Really doesn't take all that much to change a tubular.
just make sure your spare has been stretched on a
spare rim. The old glue on the rim should hold the tire
(and its really the pressure that holds it, not the glue).
Of course this is all mute if you use the Tufo Tape.
Next time I'm in Fla, If I see you on the road I'll be
more than happy to help.
Marty
Thanks Marty, be sure to look me up when you get out this way, we can put some miles on these flat roads. I will be sure to ride with my tubulars...

Froze,

I'm using the Tufo tape on a pair of general use wheels.
Mavic GP4 rims, conti sprinter tires.
So far so good (installed ,can't really say glued) in July.
The only problem I see with it is that the glue comes
off with the base when you remove the tire. So if you are fixing a
flat (changing tire) you'd better have new tape.
I think Tubulars are less flat prone due to their ability to deflect
more than a clincher, this is personal theory no evidence
whatsoever. As for the weight thing, the spare tires aren't rolling
weight, so for me that doesn't count. Not a weight weenie anyhow
(how could I be, I ride brooks saddle!). all in all tubular rims and
tire are lighter than equivilant clinchers.
Cost? no issue here, tubulars are more expensive.
As for this years tour, I think Beloki (I guess thats what
we are referring to) would have rolled his tire no matter
what type. And the tire rolling wasn't the cause of his
going down, he was already going sideways and about to
high side it when the tire rolled.
Other than that I don't recall seeing any racer roll a tire last season.
Varied opinions are what make this board work, so no,
I won't shoot you :D . Besides if I thought everyone should think/act alike
I'd be riding clinchers (although I do have a pair or two for
rollers/training etc.).
Bianchi. Next time I'm there, ride any tire you want.

Marty