I've noticed there's been quite alot of comments made concerning what type of brakes are needed for an Ebike.

Everyone says, "Ooooo, Ooooo...You gotta have disk brakes!!! Or you'll DIE!!!! You'll be so DEAD, YOU WON"T KNOW HOW DEAD YOU ARE!!!!

:rolleyes:

After reading up on the braking question, I'm beginning to think that the idea of HAVING to have disk brakes for safety is actually quite a bit overatted. Think about it for a minute. Most decent touring bikes come with a good set of Canti-levers. Most MTB's, until only a few years ago, had V-brakes. And to be honest, I'd rather have a good set of V-brakes over a set of cheap no name disks anyday.

If stopping a bike with an extra 50lbs from speed is so dangerous, then I guess anyone who weighs 50lbs more than you is going to be a dead duck, even without having an Ebike. I'm only 175lbs, if I add another 50lbs of E-gear, it'll be like I'm weighing only 225lbs. Before I lost weight in cycling, I weighed 215lbs. I didn't think it was all that hard to stop on my bike, even my old roadie with single pivot road brakes.

Heck, I'm building my E-bike with a set of 35yo Mafac center-pull brakes. If you adjust them right, they work just as good as most modern brakes, imo.

Hopefully, the whole "Gotta have Disk Brakes" idea won't get tooo carried away.

That said, my ebike project is coming along nicely. :D

I've noticed there's been quite alot of comments made concerning what type of brakes are needed for an Ebike.

Everyone says, "Ooooo, Ooooo...You gotta have disk brakes!!!

Luxury maybe, mainly personal choice for me. I have discs on all 3 wheels on a motorized enclosed 'bent trike and drums only on the front wheels of my other motorized enclosed 'bent trike.

No real big difference- less grip needed with the discs- similar to power vs. manual brakes in a car.

Don't get me wrong. Discs definitely have their benny's. The main one is they work better when wet, and also you don't need to buy a new rim for replacement. You can just replace the disc yourself without having to rebuild the whole wheel.

I will probably go to disc when I upgrade my E-bike down the road with a better frame, but for now, the rim brakes are fine.

I guess my whole point behind my little rant, is that for those looking to build an ebike, don't limit yourself to only discs, just because htey seem to be the latest in thing. If it isn't in the budget for good discs, or your frame can't use them, then don't sweet it. It'll be just fine without them.

It really depends on your set-up. If you are overvolting your controller, and pushing speeds greater than 40km/h and riding in traffic, it would be essential to have at least the front brake a disc brake.

WOW - dramatic distortion of the facts. Fact is, disc brakes are better - but nobody here ever said you will die without them.

I do know some riders that have seen the light though - after smoking a set of V-brakes hauling things down from high speed only a few times. Those rubber pads can get pretty gooey...

I have disk brakes for the first time, and I am unimpressed with their stopping power. They also are very susceptible to oil contamination, which you can't clean you have to replace the pads. And you can't buy a generic brake pad, it has to be the kind that fits your particular disk brake system.

I am probably going to go back to V brakes for the ease of finding parts and ease of maintenance.

Disc brakes do technically offer greater stopping power. However, if I can launch myself over the handlebars with my existing brake set, why would I need more stopping power?

Maybe to launch myself farther?

;)

Like I said, disc brakes definitely have a technical advantage, but they really aren't an absolute necessity. I've known friends who regularly ride through the Cascade mountains here on tours, and they drag along 50-100lbs of gear, and have to stop on mountain descents. They usually use canti-lever brakes, and have no problems.

That said, if I could use discs on my build, I would, because they are a little better. However, I'm not going to go out and buy a whole new frame just to get disc brakes. Some people actually think they need to. They don't.

I have disk brakes for the first time, and I am unimpressed with their stopping power. They also are very susceptible to oil contamination, which you can't clean you have to replace the pads. And you can't buy a generic brake pad, it has to be the kind that fits your particular disk brake system.

I am probably going to go back to V brakes for the ease of finding parts and ease of maintenance.

I guess you haven't tried BB7's.

Disc brakes do technically offer greater stopping power. However, if I can launch myself over the handlebars with my existing brake set, why would I need more stopping power?

Maybe to launch myself farther?

;)

Like I said, disc brakes definitely have a technical advantage, but they really aren't an absolute necessity. I've known friends who regularly ride through the Cascade mountains here on tours, and they drag along 50-100lbs of gear, and have to stop on mountain descents. They usually use canti-lever brakes, and have no problems.

That said, if I could use discs on my build, I would, because they are a little better. However, I'm not going to go out and buy a whole new frame just to get disc brakes. Some people actually think they need to. They don't.
Like I mentioned in my other post, it depends on your set-up. If you are volting at 36V and 20A, you should be fine. But if you are pushing 48V and 30A, or 72V, and running at near moped/motorcycle speeds, then you will need some improvements, like a large rotor disc set-up. Typically going 32km/h doesn't require that type of braking. Though it would be useful for long descents downhill, where typical V's will fade, or high speed, like 40km/h, 50km/h, or 60km/h+ like some crazies do.

All in all, V-brakes are good, but if you can choose it, I would go with discs like Avid BB7's mechanical discs.

Maybe to launch myself farther?

NO - the reason for disc is to avoid brake fade. When you power a bicycle your average speeds usually go up and that's why disc brakes are an improvement. Not a requirement - Model T Ford had junk mechanical brakes - now cars have power discs. I wonder why?

None of my modestly powered eBikes have disc brakes but I would prefer to have 'em if I could. Am I gonna die if I don't have 'em? NO - because I'm smarter and a better rider than that.

I would appreciate if you would stop distorting folks here have played on fears about not using disc brakes. That's just not the reality of the situation. It's only a suggestion based on EXPERIENCE with riding eBikes.

How many miles on eBikes have you ridden?

I would appreciate if you would stop distorting folks here have played on fears about not using disc brakes. That's just not the reality of the situation. It's only a suggestion based on EXPERIENCE with riding eBikes.

How many miles on eBikes have you ridden?

Other than testing a few bikes at the LBS that carries the prebuilt crusier type? None, admittedly. But I do alot of commuting and fast road riding. Even a little touring. It's just a bike with an electric motor. It's not some special rocket science. You certainly don't need to be Lance to get it, when it comes to an ebike.

When I first made mention I was building my ebike with a 48v 5303, and using a set of old center-pull brakes, I was told by several people in this forum it was a bad idea. I should use discs, because it wouldn't be very safe. Why not? I talked to a guy at the LBS who sells Ebikes for a living, and he said it would be fine. I talked to online retailers who sell kits, they all said it was just fine.

I'm just pointing out the attitude I see whenever someone comes in, and wants to start a new project. Virtually everytime, I see someone say, "you should have disc brakes, they're btter." Ok, they are. We all know that, but for many, it's simply not an option. And yes, there is a bit of fear driven by the responses I have read. As if it is dangerous and irresponsible not to have them. I see it constantly. Is it major? No. But I can see why some people get turned off by the attitude. If you're not part of the crowd, you don't belong.

If we want ebikes to succeed as a new way of people to get around, we need to be more open minded, and give people the best route for what they have available.

Another response I constantly see and hear about... I constantly see the remark that if you want to build an ebike, you really need to get a bike with suspension, like an MTB, because it is better. Well, not everyone has that. Some people don't live in pothole infested cities, and actually have very nice roads to ride on, so suspension is not needed.

When I first started commuting to work, EVERYONE told me, you need a bike with flat bars, or something with some suspension in front. Or, you need to have X-rack, or X-tires, or X-fenders. I was told, don't use a road bike, they aren't up to the task. Don't use a new 10s group, it isn't tough enough for the bad weather, it'll get ruined, BLAH, BLAH, BLAH. Well, my old road bike with a new 10s Veloce group, has served me fine for the last 4 years. It gets to the point it's not just a suggestion, it's almost like a mandate. And the attitude itself drives people away.

Would discs be better on an ebike? Yes, overall they are. Heck they're better on just about any bike. I know they are. But it isn't necessary for most ebikes. What most people on here ride the average ebike at, in the 20mph range, is what I ride my roadie at, and discs aren't needed. If you're going to be pushing higher speeds on the 48v-72v systems, then I can see it as a big benny, but still not totally necessary.

However, to be honest about braking with these systems, the newer regenerative braking is a much better option than just settling for discs. If anything, the regen braking should be the ideas we push for, because it is the wave of the future for effiency, and effectiveness. If one is building an ebike, and concerned with braking, the first thing we should recommend is regen braking. With good regen braking, you certainly DO NOT need discs, even with a high votlage system. That serves a much better purpose, than just automatically saying, discs are best.

I'd much rather spend an extra $100 or more, to get a system with regen braking that uses a set of single pivot rim brakes, than converting to discs anyday.

Are discs better than rim brakes? Yes. But many of us who are looking to build a bike, don't have the option, and I have seen on many ocassions where they've been told they shouldn't even do it. That they should buy a better frame with disc tabs, because they don't have good enough gear. That's ridiculous. Most of us on here are not building bikes with 48v or more. Most of the new builders and buyers get 36v systems. They shouldn't be told with such necessity they have to have discs. And yes that is the impression I have seen over the last few months of reading in this forum.

Anyway, I don't mean to spin people up by sounding mean or distorting. I'm just trying to bring up that there are a BAZILLION options, and moving further with the technology is more imortant than trying to direct people into simply buying/building a certain type of bike with certain components. These forums are filled with the people who are driving the technology. We need not limit ourselves to mechanical apsects, we need to be more innovative to drive the electrical technology forward, so everyone has the ability to use it. Disc brakes, or not.

hmm...is there such thing as anti-lock disk breaks for bikes?

Patriot -

I agree with you, disc brakes are unnecessary for most people unless they're riding their bike like an e-motorcycle, high voltage, etc...

however, I think you're off the mark on regen braking. Again, unless you are using the bike like an e-motorcycle it is unlikely you'll get anything worthwhile out of regen braking.

If somebody designs a motor that can freewheel OR do regen, (some kind of clutch would do it) that would be useful. Otherwise, the energy you get back during regen isn't going to counteract the energy you lose by having a gearless hubmotor (the only kind of nonfreewheeling motor currently available and therefore the only kind that does regen). Gearless hubmotors lose some efficiency due to their low rpms and gain some weight (uses more power uphill) again due to their low rpms, plus there is resistance if you pedal them with the power off due to the motor not freewheeling.

Um.... gee whizz, - have you seen the brakes I've got on my tricycle :innocent:

http://i201.photobucket.com/albums/aa276/Sianelleofavelorn/AnniesHerculesTrike4.jpg?t=1218322744

is it the kind when you reverse the pedals it stops?

Stirrup brake at the front and Sachs Duomatic Coaster brake at the rear :thumb:

Stirrup brake at the front and Sachs Duomatic Coaster brake at the rear :thumb:

Coaster brakes are my favorite. That's why I've mostly ridden Beach Cruisers until recently.

The wierdest part is that I find myself squeezing around the handlebars when I want to stop on my Cruiser these days. I also tried to hit the foot brakes a few times when I started on the recumbent. ...Any different brake set-up is a transition.

Most disc breaks need to be wore in to take advantage of their full-stopping power(Most seem to report a month but I'm guessing that translates to 100-200 miles) and they MUST be set-up nearly perfectly, which is rather easy to do with AVID BB7s if you follow their training video(or have experience).

Also, if most of your weight is put on/near the back wheel(If you have a rear-wheel drive and possibly put the batteries back there), your risk of flying over the handlebars is dramatically decreased and you still get the additional stopping power. But, remember, if you're comparing locked up wheels between discs and V's, the deciding factor is your tire and the type of brake doesn't matter. But, in wet conditions, its much easier to lock up discs than V's. :)

Stirrup brake at the front and Sachs Duomatic Coaster brake at the rear :thumb:

Those stirrups are cool. :thumb:


As far as regen goes. I know they aren't as efficient as everyone may think. However, with a high current motor, like a 5303 gearless, they do provide very good regen braking from high speed, if your controller and battery can handle it.

For example, I plan on using a Kelly 50amp regen controller for my new build. I also plan on a 48v/20ah battery. This will give me good speed for the long flat stretches (country roads) I have on my commute. But in the city, the regen will help. This will be a good addition, soley for the purpose of not needing a whole new frame to get discs. Not everyone has discs available for their frame. I'd rather spend an extra $100 to get a good regen controller, than $300 or more for a decent frame with disc tabs, plus the brake parts, hubs, etc. Might as well buy a whole new bike then.

As far as efficiency goes. I know they aren't that efficient. However, as the technology progresses, I think it's good to promote it more than anything, because it will slowly evolve into a preferred method for future ebike technology. Discs are great, but I really believe regen will be the future, as efficiency and reliability continues to grow. With good regen, one does not need discs, even with a high current motor.

Anyway, I'm still diggin' that trike. Not my cup-o-tea, but funky :D

hmm...is there such thing as anti-lock disk breaks for bikes?

I called a bike shop and they immediately started off with a sales pitch for a "Gary fisher"(sp?) bicycle that had anti-lock brakes(I was only calling to inquire about a disc wheel). Assuming it had discs for the price they were offering, I'd assume they do. It might've been a brand-specific disc system, though.

It really depends how fast you're going. Normal bike brakes should be OK up to 20 mph or so.