Road Bike Racing - Help me understand upgrade criteria 4-3

4-3: 20 points in any 12-month period; or experience in 25 races with a minimum of 10 top ten finishes with fields of 30 riders or more, or 20 pack finishes with fields over 50. 30 points in 12 months is an automatic upgrade

I have heard some states will upgrade you based on your results against other 4's (for example in a 4/5 race you get points based on only other 4 riders, in a 3/4 race, same deal). How does your state do it?

With regard to 25 with 10 top 10s, or 20 pack finishes, do those need to occur within a 12 month period also? I know you could do 25 races in one 12 month period but even that is a pretty heavy schedule. I do not do any of these early season races and feel like that is why I am not burning out while a lot of guys are.

It will be up to your rep but in nor-cal/nor-nevada a 3/4 race points go out like normal. 5th place but 1st cat 4 is still 5th place

It will be up to your rep but in nor-cal/nor-nevada a 3/4 race points go out like normal. 5th place but 1st cat 4 is still 5th place

+1

Also, the experience upgrades do not need to be in a 12 month period. Only if upgrading by points does it need to be in a 12 month period.

One nice thing about racing in a 3/4 race, if you're actually ready to upgrade, you can have Cat 3 teammates play super domestique for you to help you get points. I'm hoping to do this for one of our guys to see if I can get him to upgrade and race the state champ RR with me.

It seems that they (at least our coordinator) do not consider anything beyond 12 months, experience or points. The problem I am finding is that I am entering the toughest races I can find, doing well but not getting points. For example 12th in a tough 3/4 race, where I was the first cat4, dropped 75% of the cat3's, worth nothing. I can enter the most competitive races all season, get 12th out of a 100+ rider field and that will never be worth anything towards an upgrade. Meanwhile other guys who I have consistently beat, in the next state over, get their upgrade due to the interpretation of the results...

The regional coordinator's answer was that I stop sucking and go do the hard races and get points.

Help ME understand why you don't just enter some Cat4/5 races in East Bumblefook, AL and be done with it?

Yeah. I'll see what happens I guess. There's probably one more race I will do prior to Green Mountain Stage Race at the end of August, and another few after that in September. It is a busy summer you know? I am out of town half the time, and when I come home traveling 2-3 hours each way to get to races. I am in Phoenix right now and the racing scene here is DEAD (at this time of the year at least). I'm going to Tucson to do a hill climb TT on Sunday. I am missing 3 great road races (Tour of Vernon, Tokeneke Classic and Capital Region Road Race) back East. Hopefully those will fry everyone for Green Mountain while I stay fresh ;)

I contacted my local USCF rep about the interpertation of being the first cat 4 racer across the line in a 3/4 race counts for anything. If so, then I have 16 points since April :P If not, only 9 :(

I understand your frustration but look at it another way. If they give you an upgrade then you would be 12th cat 3 in a mixed 3/4 race and mid pack in a 3 only race.

If you are looking for a 4-3 upgrade I would choose the RRs over the stage race. Three large field RR are going to have a lot of points up for grabs and a stage race is only going to have points for a RR and a crit(much less than a RR). There are no GC points for Cat 4 stage races.

Sraight from the hourse mouth (my regional rep...)


Now you know the reason I discourage all mixed classes, and most particularly the Cat 3 – 4 mix; just too wide a divergence in experience.



I would think that the answer to your specific question is: it is pretty much open to the interpretation of whoever is going the upgrades. I try to look not only at the specific points, but also at the quality of the events in which points were earned, the fields, the course, etc. The two main points in granting upgrades are first, safety of the rider and the fields in which he will be riding, and secondly, the riders ability to compete in the new class. Most Cat 4s who are finishing in the top 10 of their races consistently, normally are qualified, when they have the 25 races under their belts, to face effectively in the Cat 3 fields. A rider who only has a handful of races small local races on just a few courses in which he has dominated might not be able to handle the faster, more tactical, regional Cat 3 events. Judgment and knowledge of the riders and the area need to be taken into account. I also try to get a recommendation and comments for either the riders coach or other riders who know and train with the riders.



Doesn’t really answer you question, but it isn’t black and white. I can tell you, that for points in our MI Challenge Points series, we ask that the promoters not mix classes, but in the cases where they do, I ask for a break out of results including the category of the riders, and give points based on how they did compared to others in their category

Help ME understand why you don't just enter some Cat4/5 races in East Bumblefook, AL and be done with it?

Theres some fast riders in Bumblefook AL racing as 4s.....

I understand your frustration but look at it another way. If they give you an upgrade then you would be 12th cat 3 in a mixed 3/4 race and mid pack in a 3 only race.

If you are looking for a 4-3 upgrade I would choose the RRs over the stage race. Three large field RR are going to have a lot of points up for grabs and a stage race is only going to have points for a RR and a crit(much less than a RR). There are no GC points for Cat 4 stage races.

There was no 3 race in this instance, so if you are a 3, you were either doing 3/4, or P123. I only mention because sometimes there is a 3, and then also a 3/4, obviously in that instance, the 3's in the 3/4s race are those that think they are not as prepared. I think your assessment is probably correct, that in the toughest races I would be around the middle of the 3 pack.

Sraight from the hourse mouth (my regional rep...)

That is great - your rep sounds like someone who takes all things into consideration.

I made a point to our reps of my understanding that safety was the #1 factor and that I felt I have demonstrated my ability to safely ride in large fields and furthermore I would have similar strength with the majority of existing 3's. I have also offered to have competitors and teammates (who are now 3's) vouch for me but they wanted to hear from officials or coach. I do not have a coach and I don't know any officials.

Sorry this is turning into a big rant... I appreciate the feedback but it seems that the decision has been made so what's left to do is just race.

With regard to 25 with 10 top 10s, or 20 pack finishes, do those need to occur within a 12 month period also? I know you could do 25 races in one 12 month period but even that is a pretty heavy schedule. I do not do any of these early season races and feel like that is why I am not burning out while a lot of guys are.

No

UMD, why no, as i read the rule it says "within a 12 period" what is your "no" based on (just wondering).

Only the points based upgrade needs to be completed in 12 months

Guidelines and Notes by Category:
5-4: Experience in 10 mass start races.
Local Associations may also establish policies where
upgrade credit is given for taking a sanctioned rider
education clinic.
4-3: 20 points in any 12-month period; or experience in 25
races with a minimum of 10 top ten finishes with fields
of 30 riders or more, or 20 pack finishes with fields
over 50. 30 points in 12 months is an automatic
upgrade
3-2: 25 points in any 12-month period
40 points in 12 months is an automatic upgrade
2-1: 30 points in any 12-month period
50 points in 12 months is an automatic upgrade
USA Cycling may add additional requirements for upgrading
at their discretion. Any such changes shall be made available
on the website.

UMD, why no, as i read the rule it says "within a 12 period" what is your "no" based on (just wondering).

It specifically calls out 12 months for points and not for experience. Similarly, 5->4 has no time limit, although the officials have a lot of discretion. Some may interpret it as within 12 months but all of the officials and other people I have spoken to about it agree with my interpretation.

Only the points based upgrade needs to be completed in 12 months

Guidelines and Notes by Category:
5-4: Experience in 10 mass start races.
Local Associations may also establish policies where
upgrade credit is given for taking a sanctioned rider
education clinic.
4-3: 20 points in any 12-month period; or experience in 25
races with a minimum of 10 top ten finishes with fields
of 30 riders or more, or 20 pack finishes with fields
over 50. 30 points in 12 months is an automatic
upgrade
3-2: 25 points in any 12-month period
40 points in 12 months is an automatic upgrade
2-1: 30 points in any 12-month period
50 points in 12 months is an automatic upgrade
USA Cycling may add additional requirements for upgrading
at their discretion. Any such changes shall be made available
on the website.

So my request from 4-3 should have been approved based on experience ?? I don't have the points since I've only done a few races, but I've been top 10 every time. I have 13 years of racing experience back in the old days (Cat 3 & 2) before I took 15 years off.

So my request from 4-3 should have been approved based on experience ?? I don't have the points since I've only done a few races, but I've been top 10 every time. I have 13 years of racing experience back in the old days (Cat 3 & 2) before I took 15 years off.

local upgrade coordinator has alot of leeway in decision granting, but typically a 15 yr. hiatus puts you back into Cat 4 until you meet the upgrade criteria (JRennie post) again for going to Cat 3.

...I have also offered to have competitors and teammates (who are now 3's) vouch for me but they wanted to hear from officials or coach. I do not have a coach and I don't know any officials...

You could try having your team president lobby for your cause, assuming he/she has been monitoring your progress. That nearly always works around here.

Only the points based upgrade needs to be completed in 12 months

Guidelines and Notes by Category:
5-4: Experience in 10 mass start races.
Local Associations may also establish policies where
upgrade credit is given for taking a sanctioned rider
education clinic.
4-3: 20 points in any 12-month period; or experience in 25
races with a minimum of 10 top ten finishes with fields
of 30 riders or more, or 20 pack finishes with fields
over 50. 30 points in 12 months is an automatic
upgrade
3-2: 25 points in any 12-month period
40 points in 12 months is an automatic upgrade
2-1: 30 points in any 12-month period
50 points in 12 months is an automatic upgrade
USA Cycling may add additional requirements for upgrading
at their discretion. Any such changes shall be made available
on the website.

correct.

I did another race and came in 3rd, that puts me over the requirement. I e-mailed the coordinator but have not heard back.

I did another race and came in 3rd, that puts me over the requirement. I e-mailed the coordinator but have not heard back.

No, there is a request an upgrade link on your usacycling page. Click on that, fill in your results, and then submit.

We are on a first name basis with all of the rejections I've gotten this year.