General Cycling Discussion - Whither the bike business? Cheap tourers, utility bikes?

I had a brief conversation with the proprieter of the LBS today. He said now is a gloomy time for his industry. There is, in his words, no excitement about bicycling anymore.

I don't know where the industry is headed these days, and I don't know for sure how to generate "excitement", which is to say more sales. One thing I am curious about, though, is why there are no cheap touring or utility bikes.

The LBS now has mtb's and hybrids for under $300. If one could buy mtb's now without suspension, as they were sold for $700 or more in the late 80's, they would be about $200 (like the hybrid bikes). So, why can't a cheap touring or utility bike be made to sell for sub $400? Surely a serviceable frame, forks, and wheelset could be made for about the same price as on a mtb. In fact, one could make a workable tourer out of a low-end mtb just by swapping the tires and handlebars.

Someone who actually knows the bike business would know better than I. From what I've seen, though, it seems there is some kind of market for cheap but good utility bikes. College towns often have a robust trade in crappy used bikes, most of which are decrepit hub-geared wrecks or junky old ten-speeds. The prices on these things can go over $100.

In the San Francisco Bay Area, the market on good used road bikes has prices up around $400.

So isn't it worth gambling on a low-end tourer or utility bike? (It can't be a worse idea than dabbling in recumbents, it seems.) Couldn't something all right be made that compares to low-end mountain bikes in price?

I'm interested in your responses, particularly those of you who have experience selling or making bikes.

Thanks.

For some reason, the marketing people have decided that touring and commuting just aren't sexy enough for most folks these days. They have decided to target cycling as a "sport" and neglected the idea that it can also be a useful form of transport.

The market is too small and the profits are even smaller. There is no one in the industry that has enough money to advertise and create a demand, as the auto industry does; and there is not enough money to buy political clout to get legislation passed that would make the roads safer for all users.

The bulk of their advertising dollars goes to bicycle related magazines. I've never seen any ads on primetime TV shows.

There is no unifying group to unite the bicycle manufacturers in a common cause. Every time it has been tried there were too many factions that wanted it their way and compromise on what was best for the whole could never be agreed upon.

There is no idealism in big business. The only questions asked have to do with, "How much can we make on this?" You never hear the question, "How will this benefit the public?"

The best commuter bike I ever had was an old Schwinn 5 speed that I converted to a 21 speed with MTB wheels and slicks. It was heavy but that long wheel base made it the most comfortable bike I've ever ridden. Even more than my $6000. Litespeed.

When you hunt for used bikes, don't go to the LBS. Go to yard sales, The Salvation Army and other charitable groups, and build your own bike.

You can very easily convert a hybrid type bike to a touring style,..a set of drop bars and STI levers and travel agents for the V-brakes !!, Then you have a bike that has comfortable geometry, eyelets for fenders and racks , a triple ring c/set, and 35/43 size tires,there are off the rack tourers made by the big companys but only in limited supply as there is not a huge demand, my store has had it's best ever year this year in It's 16 year history !!.

Originally posted by ljbike
When you hunt for used bikes, don't go to the LBS. Go to yard sales, The Salvation Army and other charitable groups, and build your own bike.

Actually, I've got a lot out of skips. I come from Cambridge UK, and every college there (about 30) has a bikeshed, where leaving students who can't be bothered leave their bikes. Every now and again a college will clear out all of these old bikes, mostly into a big skip at the back of the college. Great source of parts/complete bikes. My best find so far only needed a new brake cable.

I was given a Claude Butler frame by my college plumber, but the lugs were seriously corroded. :(

I have often wondered why you can't buy a 10 speed equivilant any more. Raleigh stopped making cheap ones about 10 years ago. Pushed me firmly into the second hand market, because I hate cheap mtn bikes.

Ellie

The dearth of touring and "city" bikes doesn't exist much on this side of the Atlantic. You can get a pretty decent bike for the equivalent of $3-400.

Cheers...Gary

Originally posted by Ellie


I have often wondered why you can't buy a 10 speed equivilant any more. Raleigh stopped making cheap ones about 10 years ago. Pushed me firmly into the second hand market, because I hate cheap mtn bikes.

Ellie

I couldn't agree more.You don't need a huge number of gears (I recently upgraded my tourer and my wife's from 10 to 12) but low end bikes are so heavy and the components so poor they would put anyone off cycling.

Better by far to get a good second hander.

As for the future, I think touring should be promoted (particularly as I want to set up a company arranging tours in the flat lands of Europe for first timers) as touring is what bikes are really about.

Also I see a future for recumbents, but only if the roads become safer.

You know, I was thinking...

I've been looking at cyclocross bikes, and one that I really like is the Kona Jake the Snake. The shop usually sells it for something like $1350 Canadian [$850 US]. It's a nicely specced bike -- Shimano 105, SPD pedals, good quality aluminum frame, tough wheels -- and I was thinking that if they can sell a 105-specced alu bike for US$850, then what's stopping someone from selling a Tiagra/105 mix road bike with a decent-but-not-spectacular steel frame [say, Columbus Thron] optimized for touring and commodity wheels, saddle and bars for US$550-$600?

Such a bike would be in the 23 lb range for 54 cm, and would deliver great value for the commuter/light tourer. It would also fit nicely in the budgets of most, or many, recreational cyclists. We could start a whole new thing...

I know, the Giant OCR3 fits into that price category but, let's be honest, that's a crummy bike. It's almost unrideable and its component spec is sub-Sora

There's two markets, tourers and city bikes. People would rather drive on the highway because it's faster, safer, and more comfortable. Their is a huge untapped market for city bikes if it was advertised and promoted. The amount of time a lot of people sit in traffic is really silly. What is needed is a low cost high quality bike. With computer machineing, casting, and quality control this can be done. Pacific has the resources but not the will or business sense to do this. Their too busy trying to sell $75 Mongoose's in front of toys r us so they can make $10 off of every landfill ready bike they sell. People want straight handlebars and fat tire because it makes them more secure, fine, lets put some higher pressure less knobby tires, drop those handlebars a couple inches, put mounts on the bikes for optional removable hard briefcases, use less gears, 10 is just fine. Get people out of the cars first then maybe they'll take the bike out on weekends. It requires a change of thinking.

Check out madwagon.com (http://www.madwagon.com). They have some great bikes starting at $99, Im seriously thinking about picking up the retro.

Or the cruiser... Put on an old Brooks, a utility baskey, and full fenders... *drool* :)

Their city bike for 199 is identical to the navarro buzz ($599)

Bike marketing is not about selling good bikes, but profitable bikes Most customers are simply not prepared to spend enough for a decent machine, as though bike prices belong in a 1970's time warp.
I agree that good utility/city bikes would be a good idea, but the ones that are made are way too heavy and cumbersome.
What exactly is a Comfort Bike ? As opposed to a discomfort bike??

Take a decent butted Al or chromoly frame with horizontal dropouts. Add a 7 speed hub system, dynohub lighting, rack, fenders and chainguard, and you could have a 25-30lbs utility machine, but it would cost $5-800. Who would buy one? Only the Dutch.

I'll keep what I have until it wears out, thank you. I will keep scrounging the yard sales and thrift shops for suitable eventual replacements, i.e., mid-to-high quality road bikes of the 1960s, 70s, and early 80s.

I take a slightly different view on this. With computer machining, assembly, design, production, all prices are stagnant or decline the exceptions are services, and hand made goods. The days of craftsmen hammering out horseshoes are over. Anyone remember when an IBM PC could cost over $8000 complete setup with printer? Computer manufacturing can build to closer tolerances, don't require unions or coffee breaks and work 24/7. Quality requires a commitment from the manufacturer and may raise the price several dollars per item. The big company that could do this won't. And then assembly, why aren't people sueing walmart and toys r us over dangerous bikes not properly assembled or adjusted. The CSPSC doesn't seem to care. Imagine if Pacific would use quality components, they could set their own prices by ordering in lots of 100K or more and shimano or campy could open new factories.

Originally posted by diamondback
And then assembly, why aren't people sueing walmart and toys r us over dangerous bikes not properly assembled or adjusted. The CSPSC doesn't seem to care.

As I posted last month on Schwinn.com, the CPSC is clueless about bicycle safety.