Fifty Plus (50+) - Clipless for over 50?

Hi,

My first post on this particular forum and would like to introduce myself along with a question. I am returning to a road bike after 10+ years and age 58, I recently have lost 48 pounds, power walk 5 mi/day and finally have a BMI of 23. I want to return to cycling in order to complement my walking regimen.

So, I am about to pull the trigger on a 08 Trek Madone 5.2. Hopefully, it will be the only bike I will ever need. The question(s) I have is:
1. Should I consider a double or triple crank?
2. More importantly, I have always used toe clips and straps with never a problem. If I go with clipless (Speedplay), is that necessarily an injury just waiting to happen to someone approaching the big six oh?

The clipless system seems a bit intimidating as I have seen countless motorcycle riders drop their bikes on slippery pavement at traffic signals, etc. and the shoes seem to be impossible for walking which I like to do on rides.

Any thoughts?

Best regards,

dave

You have come to the right place for advice on clipless. There is however a lot of it, and like everything, everyone has a favorite.

If you can handle toe clips and straps, then you can do clipless after just a little practice. The principal cause of falls is the "I forgot".

If you really want to walk comfortably, then you may want to look at MTB pedals, shoes and cleats as they are recessed into the shoe. Many touring bikers choose these specifically for the ability to walk.

1. If a double will give you the range you need, then go that route. Doubles are lighter, shift better, easier to adjust the FD, etc. But, if you think maybe you do or will in the future need really low gearing, without losing a high enough gear, then go triple, right from the start. My hybrid has a 46/38 crank with an 11-34 cassette. That's high enough and low enough for my needs but the high would be too low for many.
I couldn't do without a triple on my recumbent, as I need really low gears to spin up hills.
2. Use toe clips. You're used to them. They work. Don't go clipless until you decide it's right for you.

So, I am about to pull the trigger on a 08 Trek Madone 5.2. Hopefully, it will be the only bike I will ever need. The question(s) I have is:
1. Should I consider a double or triple crank?
2. More importantly, I have always used toe clips and straps with never a problem. If I go with clipless (Speedplay), is that necessarily an injury just waiting to happen to someone approaching the big six oh?

The clipless system seems a bit intimidating as I have seen countless motorcycle riders drop their bikes on slippery pavement at traffic signals, etc. and the shoes seem to be impossible for walking which I like to do on rides.

Any thoughts?


Only bike you'll ever need? Bwa-hah-hah! You have obviously never heard of the n + 1 rule.
1. if you have to question which to get, double or triple, then you need the triple.
2. go clipless, you will not be sorry. If you live. :lol: Seriously, just get walkable shoes and you'll be fine.

My road bike has Shimano A520 pedals, which have the MTB-style SPD clips. I like them because I can walk around in the shoes. They're much more comfortable for me than toe-clips, which used to give me problems with my feet going numb from the pressure on top of my foot. Now I'd feel really weird riding any bike without being clipped in.

I originally went with SPDs so I could use the same pair of shoes for trail and road riding, but I became just a bit style-conscious and realized that the off-road shoes were too clunky for the road. I ended up with two pairs of shoes, but of course I can wear either pair with either bike.

Hi Dave,

Welcome to the forum and congrats on some serious progress in your physical fitness!

My .02 on these issues is as follows:

1. Get the double. If you progress on the bike like you have been, I would think the small chain ring will get obsolete fast.

2. Get clipless. Intimidating a little at first, but it turns to indispensable once you are comfortable with the system. The reasons why nearly every roadie uses clipless are that the initial apparent drawbacks are greatly outweighed by the bio-mechanical advantages. You do give up some mobility as far as walking in the cleated shoes, but you will learn to ride closer to where you need to go ;-)

Incidentally and for what its worth, I have been riding motorcycles since 1965 and I am about your age. I currently ride a '07 Honda CBR600RR which will do 0-60 in 2.9 seconds and corners like it is on roller coaster rails. It is simply thrilling to ride and I love it, although I do get some funny looks when when I pull my helmet off. I admit I am a little unusual because, prior to my retirement from the Federal government, I was extensively trained to ride a motorcycle professionally. My point here is, I think you have been watching some very sorry, very lame motorcyclists.

Hi,
So, I am about to pull the trigger on a 08 Trek Madone 5.2. Hopefully, it will be the only bike I will ever need.

:lol::roflmao2::lol::roflmao::roflmao::lol::roflmao2::lol:

Dave,

Re: the double vs. the triple...you don't mention what kind of riding you hope to do. A double willl probably be fine if you plan to ride only moderate hills or the occasional mountain road -- especially if you get a compact crankset with a 34-tooth inner ring.

However, if you live somewhere particularly mountainous, and plan to regularly go on long rides in the hills, you should consider the triple.

As for clipless -- I've used two clipless systems (SPD, and I just switched to Look on one bike). I think clipless riding is the best, would never go back.

Blues,
As had been said already, there are opinions all over the page on the questions that you asked. My take goes like this:
1. Consider this your first bike, not "the only bike that you will need."
2. Get platform pedals with the bike until you are comfortable on this bike. Often, a LBS will put a cheap set of platform pedals on a new bike for free. It may have much different handling than what you were used to in the past. Once you are comfortable riding it, then get SPD pedals. Shimano has several that are good: 520, and 540 are good places to begin.
3. Get a triple for this your first bike. It is a bit expensive to switch from one to the other so get the one that has the widest range of gears. The only thing that you really give up is a small amount of weight. A very small amount.
4. For your second bike get one with only a double, a compact double if you plan to ride in the hills a lot. And buy your second bike with SPD pedals as well so that they will work with the same set of MTB shoes you have for bike #1.
Good luck with the new bike.

If you really want to walk comfortably, then you may want to look at MTB pedals, shoes and cleats as they are recessed into the shoe. Many touring bikers choose these specifically for the ability to walk.

Conversely, if you really want to pedal efficiently on long rides, road pedals like Look, SPD-SL or Speedplay Zeroes are the way to go. Short walks at rest stops are not hard to do, especially if you use cleat covers, but they are not practical for more than minor amounts of walking.

It all comes down to priorities. You can always get both types of pedals and shoes to match and swap them out depending on what kind of ride you have in store for that day.

Loads of advice coming your way, I'm sure.

My own tuppence worth

Double or triple? Classic double might be a 52/38 (teeth per chainring on the front). Many feel that this doesn't give enough low hill climbing gears. To counter this, a 'compact double' with 50/34 is now becoming very usual. It gives 'almost' the same low hill climbing gears as a triple, and 'almost' the same high speed gears, and reduces complication and gear redundancy (overlap)

Clipless - MTB shoes (SPD and similar) allow you to walk, don't cause you to skeeter when putting a foot down on a wet road, and also provide the firm connection to the bike which improves efficiency. Pure road shoes might give a marginally improved effiency for people who want to save a couple of minutes over a Century.

No advice is impartial. Guess what - my current best bike has compact Ultegra and MTB pedals!

Happy choosing!

Blues,
As had been said already, there are opinions all over the page on the questions that you asked.

Uh, I didn't ask a question. dave_gt was the OP.

Hi, Benny...

A fellow middle Georgian?!! Glad to meet you.

Hope all is going well for you and I appreciate your Lifeline link. Really cool, that...

Now, as far as that one bicycle thang, ummmm...I don't know but getting a new bike is going to be a bit of a financial strain what with the economy like it is but am working on some ideas to fund it. Of course, if I/we are successful in getting my wife's health back to where she can ride, I will have to find her a bike, too....

Or a tandem...

Glad to hear from you!

dave

Platform pedals on a Madone would be an abomination. SPD's or Eggbeaters or Frogs are almost an abomination, but special dispensation is available for 50+ folks who see some practicality in being able to walk.

Hopefully, it will be the only bike I will ever need.

But.....it will not be the only bike you will ever want.:thumb: You just do not know you need it.........yet.

Welcome. As you can see, there are indeed numerous ideas. When considering your purchase, how much is cost an issue? For example, the SpeedPlay Zeros are a great pedal, but their cleats are very expensive compared to most others. (BTW, the SpeedPlays require some getting used to if you haven't ridden clipless before. The amount of float - lateral movement available- can throw some folks off. If you go that route the Zeros are a good choice). In terms of double or triple, I suspect there is no way you'll really know for sure until you start riding and see how you do. Will the bike shop loan you a bike with each setup for an extended ride in the kind of terrain you'll be riding? Some folks like the compromise a compact up front (34 or 36 and 50 tooth are the standard). This allows some flexibility based on the rear cassette you choose. I tend to favor the compact and have several cassettes I can swap depending on where I'm riding. What you'll come to learn is that when you first start riding everything is a compromise until you reach the point where you know how and where you ride like the back of your hand. So, I guess my final advice is to relax and enjoy whatever you get. You're purchasing a very fine bike and should get years of enjoyment out of it.

1. Triple. Of course.
2. Clipless. Of course.
3. Ditto M520. Best pedal for the money.
4. Ditto for MTB shoes for recessed cleats.

All other advice is suspect.

Hi, Benny...

A fellow middle Georgian?!! Glad to meet you.
dave

What part of Middle Georgia, Dave? I'm in Milledgeville and pres of the club here. See the second link in my sig.

If it is as hilly where you are as it is here, a triple might be a good option for you, depending on how fit you are. But if you are below the fall line, a regular double might do the trick. A compact double might be the ticket to split the difference. Mostly it will depend on how strong a climber you are. Don't forget that you will probably be doing some riding in North Georgia at some point, and you'll want the lowest gearing you can get for that, unless you turn out to be a hill climbing phenomenon.

Since you are already used to the hardest to master pedal sytem there is (imho), clipless (either road or MTB type) should be no trouble at all for you to learn.

Come over and ride with us sometime when you get your new bike. We have many beginner-friendly rides (anything I'll be doing on a bike right now will be easy) and we also have more advanced rides as people progress to longer and faster riding.

1. Triple. Of course.
2. Clipless. Of course.
3. Ditto M520. Best pedal for the money.
4. Ditto for MTB shoes for recessed cleats.

All other advice is suspect.

+1.

Well, I'm older than you and had no clipless experience. so you have two ups on me. I have used those dreaded toe web thingys. I bought my new Versailles with SPDs on it. It took me all of maybe an hour for using them to become second nature. So, never fear, you aren't too old to learn. Just be sure to clean and lube them just like you do your chain.

As I get more experience I may go to a different style cleat. But, cleats are sooooo nice I can't imagine ever going without them, except for winter biking of course, IF I do that.

Oh yes, Double or Triple? I went triple simply because most of my riding in in hills, some are very long and steep hills. Plus, I haven't the foggiest where I might ride in the future. Triple gives me the ability to ride anywhere; doubles don't.

As for it being the bike to last you for the rest of your life...You don't plan on living very long I take it. I'm a real newbie and already I figure I'll not be able to resist the latest and greatest in a couple years. Besides, as the country song says: There ain't no trailers on the hearse.

I ride with Speedplay Light Action pedals and a triple crank.

First the pedals. If you were riding with toe clips and straps, you are going to love pedals they are so much easier.

I like the Light Action for recreational riders. Speedplay claims that they are the easiest pedal to get in and out of. I have used them since November 2006 and have never gone down or had a problem getting out. You just step down and they go "click" and you are in. If you miss the sweet spot, just keep pedaling and clip in after you are moving.

What I do is move either pedal to the top position and then as you push down on the pedal and start moving, I clip in with the other foot.

Before I had Speedplay, I had Shimano SPD-L pedals for about three weeks and when down three time because I could get out of them easily. I really love the Speedplay pedals. Walking in them is more difficult than the Look style pedals. However, if you put coffee covers of them, they are then extremely easy. You wouldn't even know you were wearing clipless shoes.

Here is a picture of them:

http://www.coloradocyclist.com/product/item/SPEMXSPL


As for triple vs compact double. The triple gives you a larger range and still a close range. For example, you could put a 12-27 with a triple and you would need use an 11-30 to match that range with a compact double. However, if you use an 11-30, the jumps between gears is more. The triple will have closer spacing.

The down side to a triple, they weight a little more. However, they may not weigh more if you had a compact with an 11-30 on it. The large cog in the back is going to be heavier.

The shifting between chain rings will be a little slower, but not bad at all.

The triple isn't as "cool" as a compact double.

However, the nice thing about the triple, you can spend most of your time in just one chain ring. In my case it is a 42. I seldom use either of the other two chain rings. The hills have to be really nasty to need the small chain ring or I need to be exhausted. The large chain ring is used mostly on declines where I want a lot of speed.

I think with a compact double you will be shifting between chain rings more often.

1. Triple. Of course.
2. Clipless. Of course.
3. Ditto M520. Best pedal for the money.
4. Ditto for MTB shoes for recessed cleats.





+1.

And another +1.

One last note on the difference between mountain and road shoes.

Mountain bike shoes take a smaller cleat.

Road shoes have a three bolt pattern and cleat that is three or four times the size.

Mountain bike shoes have a two hole cleat.

Road shoes are lighter and stiffer. The entire sole of a road shoe can be carbon fiber. However, high end mountain shoes have probably gotten stiffer now too.

Road shoes are more aero because they are smooth. This is probably a non-issue unless you are racing over 30 mph.

Mountain shoes are much easier to walk in and in most cases are easier to get in and out of, but I think the Speedplay Light Action is as easy as any mountain bike pedal.

Also, using coffee covers makes the Speedplay shoes extremely easy to walk in.

I perfer road shoes because they are stiffer and use a larger cleat. I don't walk very much when I am riding so it is a non-issue for me.


Last point, road shoes and pedals are generally more expensive than mountain bike pedals and shoes.

Light Action pedals are about $110 and good Shimano carbon shoes are probably $130 on sale.

I went clipless at about 62 which is about the time I got into much more serious riding. Been using them for about 7 years, mostly single track. I chose to go with Shimano SPD because of the multi-release cleat option (go with the new#56 and not the old #55). Easier to learn and always easier to exit. Holding power is more than sufficient for a bunny hop, much less cross-country or road.

I hated straps and clips.

Al

DAVE DAVE listen to me......
nothing wrong with starting with a triple. I did and still have it, though as I got more attuned to riding I bought a second bike with a Campy Record double. You can ALWAYS use a second bike. 'If its pretty much flat where you live then yes, a regular double is fine. I don't have that luxury.
as for pedals - SPEEDPLAY FROGS. Easy to get in and out of - the easiest really. Lots of float for aging knees. No "tension adjustments" whatsoever to worry about.
Try then and you will abosultely love them - for mountain or road.
Thanks you for listening.

To convert a triple chainring setup to a double, simply remove the inner chainring and readjust your front derailleur and shifter. Changing anything else is optional.

To convert a double chainring set to a triple, change the crankset, bottom bracket, and both derailleurs.

High end mtb shoes are as stiff and as light as many higher end road shoes, some makers even use the same sole for both models. I know people who use mtb shoes to ride double centuries at a high level. If you want to walk a lot, get mtb shoes. Toe clips and straps suck, especially when it's cold.
I also know people who run a compact double with gearing lower than a standard triple. For example, a 34x34 is lower than my triple 30x25.

My first post on this particular forum and would like to introduce myself along with a question.

So, I am about to pull the trigger on a 08 Trek Madone 5.2. Hopefully, it will be the only bike I will ever need.
There is an N+1 rule that operates here but you will learn about that
You are about to buy a bike without consulting us and getting 3 weeks of arguments on what you should buy- That's not cricket-- man

The question(s) I have is:


1. Should I consider a double or triple crank?


Cranks up to you- what will denote what to get is your hills your legs and your lungs and what we can talk you into (Compact Double)

2. More importantly, I have always used toe clips and straps with never a problem. If I go with clipless (Speedplay), is that necessarily an injury just waiting to happen to someone approaching the big six oh?

If you have never fallen using clips and straps- you are a fibber- and Clipless will be easier to get out of after the first 5 falls


The clipless system seems a bit intimidating as I have seen countless motorcycle riders drop their bikes on slippery pavement at traffic signals, etc. and the shoes seem to be impossible for walking which I like to do on rides.

MTB Shoes- but don't look at Sidi,s


Edit- The "Thats not cricket" phrase for the unitiated- In English it means that that is not the way to do it and it could be deemed as unfair/Rude/ or Disgusting.

I started riding at 58yo, rode 1 year toe clips, went to clipless on road bike, now - 10 years later, I am still alive with hardly any bruises. I still use toe clips on my mtn bike, and my "utility road bike." I love the clipless on my roadie, but I often use the mtn bike and utility road bike for errands at the store, etc., and like being able to jump on them without changing shoes, etc.

What's this nonsense about just one bike?

welcome.

It is perfectly acceptable to buy just one bike...




...at a time. ;)

My question to you is..do you wear cleated shoes with your toe clips? I used to, and found clipless MUCH easier to ride in. No need to loosen a strap before every stop (you absolutely had no choice on this except a track stand, and I would still loosen one just in case). For me it was an absolute no-brainer. Of course that was years ago when clipless came out as the next big thing. I still have the same shoes my original cleats were on, and now they sport sampson cleats from early 90's when I went clipless. Clipless has come A LONG WAY since then. I say do it.

God bless!

-Ron

Well, that clears THAT up! LOL...

Oh, BTW, I am in the Peachtree City area. You guys are not that far away that I couldn't just ride over!:)

Oh, and as a motorcycle rider...different animal altogether. I would ride my rear brake and crawl/inch ahead at most stop signs and even some traffic signals. Even when I put my foot in oil ONE TIME I had not commitedd to lead the bike to that side and nothing happened...just put the other foot down. No worries...watch for the oil and don't step in it.

God bless!

-Ron

I went clipless at 62, and liked it the first time I used them. Now, after a couple months, I love them. I went SPD, with MTB shoes. I installed Shimano combo pedals, because they are clipless on one side, and platforms on the other. I like the flexibility of being able to wear tennies around the neighborhood with my wife, and clipless on my 30 mile loop every morning.

Spend the few extra $ for quality pedals, as the Campus pedals from performance weren't near as good.

You can also buy the Shimanos at Performance for a decent price on sale. With shoes and pedals, I have $100 invested.

Practice near grass so you don't hurt your bike.

some good advice here.

my two cents: get the triple because it's there when you need it. No rule says you need to use the wee inner ring unless you really need to bail out. Just make sure it is set up and maintained properly, it's a pain dumping your chain on a climb....

which brings me to clipless....I think if you are willing to go back to your clips & straps you should go clipless, but since you've been away from bikes for over a decade, my advice is:

1. get the new bike with plain old platforms
2. Get used to the bike's handling, controls, etc.
3. try on lots of shoes, preferably with recessed cleat mounts (for walking)
4. when you have the shoes that fit well look at a compatible pedal system you like and can grow with. My wife and I like the Crank Brothers Quattro because I can use it with a variety of Shoes. The Speedplay Frogs are also very versatile.

I grew up on clips but never really tightened them to pro settings - which kinda negates their purpose....I just hated numb feet. Clipless are very easy once you get the hang...and I agree It's the brain freeze that gets you stuck, not the foot action - that's very easy to do. I froze a few times and toppled over gently at stop signs when I first started (Which is why people say practice on grass) but no falls since - now I just clip out in advance, and can clip out faster and with less conscious thought...

I do still use platforms when commuting in the city because the thought of a gentle topple in rush hour traffic scares the daylights outta me - ymmv, of course; lotsof people ride clipless in such cinditions with no issues at all.

Enjoy!!



congrats on some great fitness health results!!! I am two decades your junior and you are putting me to shame!:thumb:

It is perfectly acceptable to buy just one bike...




...at a time. ;)

Thread hijack attempt: Anybody here ever buy two bikes at the same time? For just you?

Married people? Seems unlikely, can't speak for single people.

God bless!

-Ron

After buying 6 bikes my first year and buying a road bike this pass Oct. If you get the bug, like most do, you will have more than one bike. I'd get the triple and all the post above just about cover everything else. Good luck with your choice.
Oh, look at the Specialized brand as well, it may surprise you.;)

Platform pedals are illegal on a Trek Madone 5.2 in most states. Check your local laws.

Sounds like you have the money to step up and get a Trek Madone. That means if you don't like the Speedplay for $185.00 you can easily get something else. So money doesn't seem to be an issue.

Then the next thing that might happen is that you fall off the new Trek Madone and scratch up the carbon frame or even damage it a little. Will that tick you off?

Okay,

Sounds like I will stick with the compact double crank...

Speedplay Frogs and what shoes?

Hi Dave and welcome.


The question(s) I have is:
1. Should I consider a double or triple crank?
2. More importantly, I have always used toe clips and straps with never a problem. If I go with clipless (Speedplay), is that necessarily an injury just waiting to happen to someone approaching the big six oh?
1. If you have lots of BIG hills then get the triple.
2. You're still a kid if you're only 58.
I started riding clipless when I was 55. Started with SPD. :thumb: In 2002 got Look pedals. Tried Speedplay Zero in 2004. After three months they went on the auction block and the Looks went back on the bike.
My commuter came with Eggbeaters (http://www.crankbrothers.com/eggbeater.php). I love them. Ditched the Looks in 2005/6(??) for Quattros (http://www.crankbrothers.com/eggbeater.php). :beer:

Since you like walking (why, when you can ride :rolleyes:) look at Candy (http://www.crankbrothers.com/candy.php) or Smarty (http://www.crankbrothers.com/smarty.php) pedals and mtn bike shoes. They look sort of like sneakers.

Okay,

Sounds like I will stick with the compact double crank...

Speedplay Frogs and what shoes?

I have no experience with Speedplay Frogs, but I know people who swear by them. My MTB type pedals are Crank Bros. Eggbeater and Smarty. Quattros would be good for a road bike. (But I'm sticking with Look for my real road riding).

Sidi shoes are excellent and pricey. I hear very good things about Specialized MTB shoes.

Hi, Ron! Another Georgia rider...cool...I'm in the Peachtree City area. With BluesDawg, we are now 3. Must be more here from around the Atlanta area!

Thanks for the welcome and the comments,

Best regards,

dave

For shoes I like Shimano. You get a lot for your money with them and they are well built. Shimano shoes are the only Shimano product that I own, my group set is Campy.

Hi, Ron! Another Georgia rider...cool...I'm in the Peachtree City area. With BluesDawg, we are now 3. Must be more here from around the Atlanta area!

Thanks for the welcome and the comments,

Best regards,

dave

I'm not from the Atlanta area. I'm from Georgia. :rolleyes:

1. Triple. Of course.
2. Clipless. Of course.
3. Ditto M520. Best pedal for the money.
4. Ditto for MTB shoes for recessed cleats.

All other advice is suspect.


+2, 3, 4 or whatever number I am in line.

I first tried the toe clips since they came on one bike. When I went with clipless sortly after it as a LOT easier to get into and out of and didn't have the need for flipping the pedal.

Clipless are actually safer if you set them up right. Set the tension so you can almost pull out on a hard up stroke pull and you'll find that they snap out when pulled sideways easily. I've had a couple of cases now where I just forced my foot out to the side and it was on the ground almost as easily as a naked platform pedal. Yet the cliples provide consistency in foot positioning as well as very nice support. Despite all the other styles I've stuck with SPD compatible pedals. One is Shimano, one VP and the rest Wellgo. Not a single issue with any of them. They all work well.

Unless you're seriously riding road bikes definetly go with the MTB shoes. Other than the funky clicking sound on pavement they walk like a regular sneaker.

Just go and practice the clipping in and twisting out on a quiet street. Do it a LOT to ingrain the action in your grey cell and it'll be habit in no time.

Heh, heh...that's okay, God will forgive you. :thumb: But, seriously, anything north of Macon is almost, sadly, considered "Atlanta" these days...the metropolitan Atlanta area stretches 110 miles north to south and the daily traffic totals over 93 millions miles each and every single day. Sheesh!

I'm not from the Atlanta area. I'm from Georgia. :rolleyes:

Spent 8 years in Atlanta; learned to say "y'all" and "How 'bout them Dawgs!". Learned to get on the elevator and say: "Would ya mash 5 for me?" Had kudzu trying to get in the back yard every summer. Fully understood, however, that I lived in Atlanta and not Georgia ("Jawjuh").

8 years? Well, YOU are an Atlantan for life...especially if ya ate at the Varsity!

Oh, btw, don't mention them DAWGS to Jawja Tech folks...LOL! Present company accepted, of course, as always...

http://coweb.cc.gatech.edu/cs1315/uploads/950/buzz.gif