Road Cycling - Deal breaker for $24????

I went test riding again yesterday and I finally found what I want. A Litespeed Firenze.

I did my wheeling and dealing with the young sales guy. Part of the package was that they were going to change from a double to a triple crankset from another bike in the store for $45 to cover the labor, thow in the typical bottles and cages, AND the pair of Oakley replacement lenses that I was looking at. I didn't even ask for that, the guy offered it to make the deal.

The price looked really good, as they were giving me 10% off retail of the bike along with the goodies above.

I call today. The sales guy that I delt with is a weekend only employee. The guy I talked with today when I called to put my money down says they can't throw in the lenses, but he can give me a 20% discount on them. :mad:

This adds $24 to the deal. It was at about $1815 for the bike taking the lens price into account. This raises it to $1839. Still a good deal, but I am a bit upset that they are not honoring what their sales person said, part time or not.

Should I go for it, of take my business elsewhere and spend a few more $$$ on principal? I can get it for about $1875 elsewhere with the triple. I am going to call back later for a final on the lenses from the manager.

Yea I would call back too and at least ask again. The weekend guy may have genuinally screwed up but still! I think I would be a bit peeved as well. But you did'nt really expect the lenses anyway so if it is a better deal than elsewhere go for it. I suppose if the lenses was the final draw for you to buy the bike at their shop instead of elswhere than go elsewhere. I mean if the guy did use the lenses as a sales pitch than I could see how you would feel 'takin'. And if you explain everything to the manager he may see your point...

Avalanche... You did really well hanging onto that pack Sat morning, considering you were the only one on a Mtb. I even had a hard time keeping up with you until I decided to take that "Mother of all shortcuts".
Anyway, IMHO, I really don't think you need a triple on that road bike. You're obviously strong enough to push most any climb on a double ring. I would leave the bike the way it is in keeping with the tradition of a true racing road bike. Just my opinion.....

George

Get the manager on the phone, politely tell him what happened, and then say

"What do YOU think?............"

If he agrees to throw the lenses in or take off another $10.00 then by all means go forward with the deal.

If he starts himming and hawing about how the partimer shouldn't have been giving you that deal, and you get the impression that he is not going to honor it, say something like:

"I understand it is hard to constantly monitor all of your employees, however I really enjoyed dealing with "_____"(insert partimers name here) And although he may have gone a little too deep into the discount, he really took charge and sold me on this bike. He did a great job, and I'd hate for him to not get the sale over $24.00 dollars. I Tell ya what.......If you honor the deal, not only will I come down and buy it today, I'll be back in in a week when I need some "______"(socks/powerbars/tubes etc.....) Whaddya say?"

and then wait for an answer, AND DONT SAY ANYTHING! not even a "hmmmm?" or "hello?" Because the first person to speak loses.

Well, no one is really losing here. You get the deal you wanted, they get the business, and the repeat business. If you are getting 10% off the MSRP for the bike, $24.00 should not be a deal breaker for them. Besides, $45 dollars for crank and derailluer change is plenty.

Granted everyshop has its rules regarding discounting, but $24.00 is not going to put anyone into the red on a new bike purchase.

If you follow the above to a T, you will probably get the deal, and when you do, thank them, and make sure you DO go back next time you need something, and say hello to the manager when you are in there.

You ask: Should I go for it, of take my business elsewhere and spend a few more $$$ on principal? I can get it for about $1875 elsewhere with the triple. I am going to call back later for a final on the lenses from the manager.

I suggest negotiation with a manager first, then, if unsatisfied, spend more elsewhere.

What's their problem? They'll forego a sale (one that's got money in hand to throw down) because they won't honor a $24.00 incentive "they" offered. I'm sure they expect you to just forget about it since it is only a few bucks, but I'd call their bluff. Tell 'em you're gonna go spend your money somewhere else. If they don't cave at that point, they're just plain stupid. . . and who wants to do business with stupid people?

Well, actually, that may be a smart thing in some cases, but now I digress. . .

Oh, re-read Smoothie's post. I now know why the moniker. . .good advice there.

And not that my opinion matters, but I also lean toward a double for traditionalist reasons much like Fixer.

A triple on a litespeed just seems wrong wrong wrong.

I agree with the above. I am very much a man of principal and would take my buiness elsewhere. However, if the manager agrees to to sell it to you for the original said price. Go for it, then make other small purchases at a different store for you have just screwed yourself out of a healthy relationship with those 2 faced LBS SOBs'.

Can't advise on who to deal with...it's good you have a choice of Litespeed dealers. Sounds like a great deal to me either way.

But, I'd say get the triple if you think you'll use it....now is the time. I just got my first triple here, and like having a whole range of climbing gears to chose on the long climbs. Don't need it often, but when climbing speed drops below 8 mph on a long steep grade, it's great to know the right gear is waiting.

Concerning the macho-factor, I've always been more impressed with a rider's ability rather than his bike. Passing your buddies up hill is what's impressive, who cares what gear ratio you're riding?

A triple may not "look right" on a CYFAC, but it's perfect for a Ti bike, IMO. After all, you're likely not buying the Ti bike to go crit racing.

You know, 90% of the bike shops out there are barely squeaking by. I really don't see the need to nickel and dime them for $24 dollars on an $1800 dollar purchase. Chances are you won't even notice the difference but for a shop owner trying to make a profit that month it it is significant. If the people in the shop are knowledgeable and friendly, provide good advice and take their time with you then forget about the lenses and buy the bike. If they aren't and you get a better vibe at another shop then buy the bike at the other shop whether or not they throw in the lenses. Good bike shops are getting harder and harder to find. Spend your money at the good ones, even if you have to spend a bit more.

-s

i'm seconding what slider said.

$24 is not really enough to break a deal, especially if the salespeople you've dealt with have been really nice. they offered to still give you a 20% discount on the lenses anyway...

usually the only thing that'll break a deal for me is if the salespeople are outright rude to me. i've walked out of a number of shops when i was fully prepared to plunk down cash for something, just because the people working there were extremely rude to me.

i say, they're giving you a pretty good deal. and basically november-february are pretty tough months for bike shops anyway. if you like the shop (and it sounds like you really have every reason to like them) spend your money there.

2 good points as well!

Just another side of the coin:

It probably has nothing to do with the $24, it is probably more to do with Oakley's pricing policy. I know Oakley have a very dim view of thir products being sold below MSRP to a point where they will no longer supply to those who do this.

Just ask for the cash to be taken from another part or get something else thrown in. Just rework the figures so it seems you have paid full MSRP for the Oakleys.

I think it's important to build a relationship with a good LBS. Support the bike shop in your area that you believe will give you the best service, not the cheapest price.

I remember getting two flat tires on a ride a few years back, I was only carrying one spare tire (I was riding on tubulars) and therefore I was stuck on the side of the road. My riding buddies rode to the nearest LBS and they did not even know what a tubular tire was. I will not buy anything there even if it's a few bucks cheaper! Then there was the time a friend broke a spoke and we went into the nearest LBS, instead of offering to put in a new spoke and truing the wheel, they offered to sell us a new wheel and said that no one around knew how to true a wheel.

If you had this great deal laid out in front of you, why did you not buy it then? If you see a $100 laying in the street you don't think to yourself I will pick that up the next time I walk past here.

When we offer someone a deal it is with the understanding that they are going to buy now, not go home and think about it some more. If they just can't make up their mind, we write it up and the deal stands for twentyfour hours(This is also to the customers benefit because if I have no firm deal and someone else wants the bike, they get it.). If you show up a week later you might get the same deal but there is chance what you wanted will be gone

If you had this great deal laid out in front of you, why did you not buy it then? If you see a $100 laying in the street you don't think to yourself I will pick that up the next time I walk past here.

When we offer someone a deal it is with the understanding that they are going to buy now, not go home and think about it some more. If they just can't make up their mind, we write it up and the deal stands for twentyfour hours(This is also to the customers benefit because if I have no firm deal and someone else wants the bike, they get it.). If you show up a week later you might get the same deal but there is chance what you wanted will be gone

Agreed. Think of it as a car standpoint... the end of the month you may get one deal.. 2 weeks later with a different sales person you probably won't.

you know it's funny I've seen so many threads about one thing turn ito a double vs triple conversation. Also I guess I am lucky but I have 2 LBS's in my town and there is no bike snobbery at all in these shops. Both are straight up professional and very helpful. I would trust that if they screwed up a price well hey thats that but if you are dealing with a 'car salesman' type LBS then f'em. Does your LBS have salesmen that even ride bikes? I'd say Smoothie has got it down but only if you want the bike and THATS IT! I'd hate to have to feel like I am walkin on egg shells every time I go into the LBS for small stuff or what ever. If thats the case than faceless Internet stores are better...

As for the double/triple well looks like the fixer can vouch for you on that and there's nothing like a second opinion. Also looking at a gear chart you will see that a standard triple is nothing that a modified double can do for less the cost of a triple conversion. Of course your situation involves a swap but with a modified crank set and cassette you can always go back to the original even with inexpensive do it your self tools.

Rev and Arsbars. I went into the shop in the afternoon. I called at 10:00AM the next morning. Well less than 24hrs later. The reason that I did not buy it right then is that I had gone in there to test ride bikes about $350 lower than the Litespeed. I won't make a snap decision on a purchase of that size. Maybe if more people would step back for a minute, the average person would not have $7000 in credit card debt.

First thing. I am NOT a good negotiator. Screwing someone down is not my forte. The negotiation consisted of "$1999? What can you do on the price?" everything else was offered. I just expected to get what I was told. I was just suprised when I called to give the go ahead and was told that the deal was different.

So, if you guys went to buy a car and the guy said "we will throw in a CD player." Then you call the next morning and say write the deal up and they say no CD player, you would just say "great!"? I think not.

The deal is still a good one, lenses or not. The second guy said that he was talking to the manager to see if they could "squeeze" a little. Sounds fair enough to me.

The Fixer,
It was great finally getting to meet and ride together. Thanks for the vote of confidance! Since this is my first road bike since being a kid, I am a little afraid not to get the triple now. I think I would rather have it and not use it much, then need it and it not be there.

Should I take advice from you? You don't like ANY gears! :D

See you Saturday. I'll be the guy on the new Litespeed. :) :) :)

Avalanche.......Okie-dokie......good luck with your purchase!

George

I'm not sayign we are car-salesman.. I'm saying that some of us (different personalities/different places in the company) can put more on the line for a deal. A deal that happened today with one customer between one sales person, probably won't happen again tomorrow.

That's all I was saying.

Saying all that though. I dont think I've ever heard anyone putting lenses in a deal of a bike purchase. It has nothing to do with the bicycle. True it helps you ride, but bottles, cages, computers, lube are directly related to the bike.. hence why its easier to get a deal on them.

If your riding around the santa fe dam and going south,you dont need a triple.Keep the double and save a few more bucks.I'll be at the dam again in a month or less.

Yeah, but just look north. Thars roads in them thar hills!! ;)

I also have friends in Denver. I'll have to pay them a visit when I get the bike broken in. :p

Just another side of the coin:

It probably has nothing to do with the $24, it is probably more to do with Oakley's pricing policy. I know Oakley have a very dim view of thir products being sold below MSRP to a point where they will no longer supply to those who do this.

Just ask for the cash to be taken from another part or get something else thrown in. Just rework the figures so it seems you have paid full MSRP for the Oakleys.

I agree here... I work a cataloger, and we used to sell Oakley glasses... I can get employee discount on EVERYTHING we sell.. except the Oakleys... I wanted to get a pair, and order thru the rep.. which sometimes you can get for cost... they wouldn't go for it... not even a little bit of a deal... and this was thru my comapny that sold a crapload of oakleys...

I now wear Smith's... expected to pay cost on them, but I ended up getting them for free... that is a great compnay

Jeff

Rev and Arsbars. I went into the shop in the afternoon. I called at 10:00AM the next morning. Well less than 24hrs later. The reason that I did not buy it right then is that I had gone in there to test ride bikes about $350 lower than the Litespeed. I won't make a snap decision on a purchase of that size. Maybe if more people would step back for a minute, the average person would not have $7000 in credit card debt.

First thing. I am NOT a good negotiator. Screwing someone down is not my forte. The negotiation consisted of "$1999? What can you do on the price?" everything else was offered. I just expected to get what I was told. I was just suprised when I called to give the go ahead and was told that the deal was different.

So, if you guys went to buy a car and the guy said "we will throw in a CD player." Then you call the next morning and say write the deal up and they say no CD player, you would just say "great!"? I think not.

The deal is still a good one, lenses or not. The second guy said that he was talking to the manager to see if they could "squeeze" a little. Sounds fair enough to me.

A couple things here. You may be uncomfortable negotiating but negotiating is not"screwing somebody down." Everything about the bike you are buying was a negotiation. From the parts manufacturers negotiating the best prices for the metal alloys they needed to forge the bikes components to the bike's manufacturer negotiating the best prices from the parts manufacturers, to the dealers negotiating the best prices from the bike's manufacturer. Even the bike's designers had to negotiate with management to get a bike they liked approved by a profit minded management. Everyone negotiated, noone got screwed. Everyone made a profit. Negotiation is an accepted way of doing business. You don't have to be a jerk or hard ass about it. Just ask if they can do better. In a successful negotiation everyone gets something they want.

With the car thing you are wrong. Survey says that that most prospects that walk out of a showroom without buying will not be back. The numbers have softened in recent years but still show that better than 70% of all who walk are gone for good. The dealer knows this which neatly explains some of the treatment customers receive in car showrooms. The dealer has nothing to lose by taking a parting shot and alienating a non buying customer. Dealers know they only have one shot so if they think they've got a live one they will do all they can to try to close the deal then and there. Because dealers work on monthly profit calanders the deeper you go into the month the better the deals will get. Late in the day last day of the month deals are always the best. The dealer is not only trying to beat year ago numbers, he's trying to blow them away. Unit allocations, floor plan finance rates and dealer incentives from the factory are riding on monthly performance.

So the free CD player may not be available when you call back. It was your incentive to buy then and there. A smart dealer would probably honor the deal. But most car dealers would never let brains get in the way of making more profit. They'll take a shot at at alienating you, knowing that if your calling back to buy the car then psychologically you've already bought it. They would wait until you are in front of them and had already moved your stuff from your old car before springing the bad news thus trapping you into a purchase. Not pleasant but it's the way it is. We haven't even talked about undercoating, extended warranties or Lojack. Of course if it's 8pm on the last day of a tough month you'll probabaly get all that plus spinny rims and tinted windows.

One element I haven't seen mentioned yet: integrity. You negotiated in good faith with one of their employees and now they won't honor it? What does that say about any future dealings with them regarding service, warranty and plain old advice.

I'd walk away for the $24. Not for the $24, but for the lack of support to their employees and their word.

tom cotter, i understand where u are coming from and maybe my example wasn't exact. I wasn't using it for figures or anything.
I understand both ends.. simply was explaining that deals are between that employee and the customer. Maybe he was going to chip in some money off the commission he would of made? Who knows. Maybe there was a misunderstanding. Who knows.

Our store stands behind our employees and as a manager I know that a deal is a deal.. but every shop works differently you guys have to remember that.

One element I haven't seen mentioned yet: integrity.

Skiahh,
THAT is exactly what I was upset about. I can afford the extra $24. I just expected them to do what they said they would, and was surprised when they didn't. I centainly would not make a deal and then walk in with less cash and expect them not to say anything.

I am getting the bike from them. They are giving me a good deal on the bike and I am happy with it. But, I did check to see if anyone else would do it for the same price. Not many people have these in stock yet. If anyone would have gotten close, I would have walked. So I guess I pimped my pricipals off for about $85. :eek:

Personal and company integrity is something that I hold in high regard. This causes me many dissapointments in life. Oh well, I guess I'll have to go tell Oprah. :(
Or I could take my $85 and get one session with a shrink. :rolleyes:

The bottom line is: I am as happy as a kid on Christmas morning. I pick it up on Thursday after work.

SO you DID get the bike from the LBS? cause I am all sorts of confused now!?!

Yes I did get it. I just finalized that with the manager today. He said that was the best he could do, blah blah blah. I could not get a close enough deal somewhere else right now. These are new and a little in short supply. There was only one other shop within reasonable distance that had one in my size. They would not get close to the price with the swap that I wanted. Shops that did not have it in stock seemed to stick close to full retail + parts and labor for the swap. The bike really sang to me on the test ride, so I am not going to pass it up. I will pick it up on Thursday.

jfmckenna - "Does your LBS have salesmen that even ride bikes?"

Well, lets see, at my shop there are three full time employees and three partime employees. Out of this group we have: Masters road/criterium, C cyclocross,two B cyclocross (one is State Champ 2003/ fourth in points), Cat 3 road/crit, expert MTB, three Cat 4s,three sport MTB, an intermediate trials mod/stock, and a freerider(the twenty five foot drop doubling staircase kind) Between us we own and ride 23 bikes.

Between just the fulltimers we have been riding more than fifty years(not counting being a kid riding time) and have nearly thirtyfive years of shop experience.