Road Cycling - Anyone w/ an opinion or experience?

I've been into mountain biking for quite some time now and got into road biking a few years ago. I'm getting ready to retire the old Bianchi Virata. I bought it on a recommendation from a friend rather than trying out several but served its purpose. I put about 9-10k per year on the thing and it's got about 40-45k on it and showing signs of age. I didn't feel like changing out the components again so I'm looking for a new bike. I'd also like to get into some competitive riding. I went out to several local shops and test road a Trek 5200, C'Dale R2000 and Litespeed Tuscany (Ultegra) along w/ some others but these 3 all seemed extremely comfortable. So much so that there was not a comfort difference that could help me distinguish between them. The problem I encountered is that each salesman I talked to (3 at 3 different shops) seemed to indicate that the particular bike I tried at his shop had the best warranty, would last the longest, was the best, etc. So my question to the masses is.....
Which one of these would be the best for 10k+ miles per year and some competitive riding (probably not crits or very few). I would like this thing to last a while because I don't want to buy another frame in the next 4-5 years. If anyone has some experience, opinion, etc on any of these advice would be much appreciated...

I don't have 10K on my Tuscany, but I have no doubt it'll go that long and more. In fact, I doubt I'll ever have to buy another road frame unless the technology changes radically or.... well, we won't go there.

I can't speak about the other 2, but for me the Ti was hands down the best.

By the way, you'll find no shortages of opinions around here!

TUSCANY BY FAR!
The Tuscany has the magical geometry, nice Ti ride and I love the looks of it-especially the cloverleaf top tube and curved seatstays. Nice!

It's the 3.25 Vortex, meaning it rocks!
I love the Cdale too but with the Tuscany, you kind of have a bike for life.

Oooh....'magical geometry'! What IS this magical geometry of which you speak? Maybe I can copy it! *laugh*

What sort of budget are we talking here? Why Trek vs C'dale vs Litespeed?

Well, I rode several bikes (7) but those 3 were the most comfortable. Budget, not so much an issue here. I'd like to keep it under $3500 but not necessary.

If budget is not an issue I would go whole hog and get the Litespeed Vortex!
Can't loose with the Tuscany, I love that bike.

Ti will last a lifetime- it has the highest tensile strength, yield & fatigue strength, elongation and will not corrode.

It is the strongest by far over aluminum and carbon.

If you're looking for a high performance bike for the long haul, you can't do much better. Doesn't hurt that Ti is comfortable too.

I'll second what racerx said, Cannonsnails are known to damage easily I.E. dents or bumbs in the tubes (and thats just looking at them wrong, they reckon!)

Regards,
Brendon

I'll second what racerx said, Cannonsnails are known to damage easily I.E. dents or bumbs in the tubes (and thats just looking at them wrong, they reckon!)

Regards,
Brendon

You've had this experience? Or did you just read it out here? I actually own one. And ridden one. And banged one. And crashed one. And this did not occur.

To learn facts....

see what independents thought from different parts of the globe (www.cannondale.com/bikes/media/caad7/)

BTW...in reference to the "Cannonsnail" cut, it was the winningest frame in the world last season. Won in the classics, in the GC season, and won the World Championship. Also kicked a lot of tail in the US Pro season, ridden by 7up (winning the US Pro Crit in Downer's Grove), and in the women's pro division as well.

Oh....

more facts (www.cannondale.com/bikes/innovation/caad7/)

Be sure to look at the "testing" dropbox. The frames they picked are well known. The Vortex has the second highest level of frame deflection in the group. Equates to loss of efficiency. Not good if you are racing.

Well, I rode several bikes (7) but those 3 were the most comfortable. Budget, not so much an issue here. I'd like to keep it under $3500 but not necessary.

You can be right at the $3500 mark with the new R3000 and get the Dura Ace '04 groupset...I just picked one of these up for myself and it weighed 15.5 pounds...if you are going to race, that should work well. I put on Look CX6 pedals and two Zipp carbon water cages and it added about 400 grams to the bike's weight. Bike's stiff in the bottom tube, bottom bracket, and back end. Goes and goes...

All the bikes you mention are good bikes. If you can, ride them all and pick the one that you feel most confident on....and watch "advice" that tells you that the other bikes are crap and this one's the best. Typically, they have not ridden the other bikes and really have no idea.

Some oldies (www.cannondale.com/passion/timeline/1998_saecoad2.html)

Another (www.cannondale.com/passion/timeline/1998_saecoad3.html)

Optimo is molecularly different from 7000 or 6000 series aluminum. CAAD7 is better than both.
With respect to the dent-resistance (which has nothing to do with frame performance),

yes the stronger the alloy, the thinner the tubes can be drawn to minimize weight without penalty. This does make most modern bikes more easily dented. But that goes for all alloy and even modern steel frames like TT OX.
Carbon frames are not that far off with regard to damage resistance in this regard-although internal de-lamination or cracks become more of a concern instead of dents.

I really don't consider this something to be considered since no one reviews this aspect of bikes and it is not a concern in my purchasing decision.

Another vote for Ti here. You just do not wear out a Ti frame. Go for the Tuscany.

Optimo is molecularly different from 7000 or 6000 series aluminum. CAAD7 is better than both.

Optimo is the Reynolds trade name for the alloy used to make CAAD7 tubing. Maybe we said the same thing...

See the attached click on Optimo tubing (www.cannondale.com/bikes/innovation/caad7/)

But if you REALLY want titanium, you could always try one of these (http://216.247.25.241/miva/merchant.mv?Screen=PROD&Store_Code=LS&Product_Code=T&Category_Code=A)

;) ;)

Man, I could build up a super sweet bike for US$3500 - and we ain't talking average off the shelf wares here. Why arent you considering some of the smaller builders if you've got that sort of budget?

Friend of mine told me a funny analogy once. 100 grand Hyundai, or 100 grand Porsche. Which one would you like?

Oh, a quick message for roadwarrior : Do you honestly think Simoni would only win anything on a Cannondale? That's ludacris, right? He'd even win things on a Trek. You see where I'm going with this, don't you? Throwing well placed sponsorship dollars at something means it will probably win more races. If Bianchi wins more races next year, will you rush out and buy a Bianchi? Will it make you win as well?

Come on now, we're not all smitten teenagers suffering from some kind of false idol worship here. You have a Cannondale, you like it, lets leave it at that.

Man, I could build up a super sweet bike for US$3500 - and we ain't talking average off the shelf wares here. Why arent you considering some of the smaller builders if you've got that sort of budget?

Friend of mine told me a funny analogy once. 100 grand Hyundai, or 100 grand Porsche. Which one would you like?

Oh, a quick message for roadwarrior : Do you honestly think Simoni would only win anything on a Cannondale? That's ludacris, right? He'd even win things on a Trek. You see where I'm going with this, don't you? Throwing well placed sponsorship dollars at something means it will probably win more races. If Bianchi wins more races next year, will you rush out and buy a Bianchi? Will it make you win as well?

Come on now, we're not all smitten teenagers suffering from some kind of false idol worship here. You have a Cannondale, you like it, lets leave it at that.

I can ride about any bike I want. Look, Litespeed, Bianchi, Trek, Cannondale, Giant, Serotta, Time, you name it. Because I work in the industry. I can take them home for the weekend or on rides and test them out and tell the customer what I experienced when I rode the bike for several hundred miles.
The sponsorship arena is highly competitive. And expensive. And teams will not take bikes that are no good. Regardless of who manufactures them. And when Saeco won last year in the last year of their contract with Cannondale, the ante went up a bunch. And many manufacturers were interested in signing them. Between the money and the quality, the relationship continues.
If it didn't help companies to sell bikes, they would not sponsor teams.

Ask Trek...

Well, one comment I may add then. I am a pretty aggressive ride. I tend to put myself into more situations of potential accidents than some riders. So my question would be that if I do wreck a CAAD7 frame once or twice and do cause some slight damage, what's the cost of getting that sucker repaired? In mountain biking, the wrecks I had caused damage that was non-repairable. Is this the case w/ a high-end road frame as well?

Well, one comment I may add then. I am a pretty aggressive ride. I tend to put myself into more situations of potential accidents than some riders. So my question would be that if I do wreck a CAAD7 frame once or twice and do cause some slight damage, what's the cost of getting that sucker repaired? In mountain biking, the wrecks I had caused damage that was non-repairable. Is this the case w/ a high-end road frame as well?

It depends on the damage. It depends on if it even needs to be repaired. A guy I work with rides CAT III on a CAAD7 that has a dent. Somehow the top tube got dented (we think one of our kids dropped it down a flight of concrete stairs). The shop sold it to him for $250. He outfitted it with Dura Ace. He's put about 7,000 miles on it, and won races on it. No problems.

Carbon does not dent. It breaks. Not often, but in a bad enough crash....

I've been into mountain biking for quite some time now and got into road biking a few years ago. I'm getting ready to retire the old Bianchi Virata. I bought it on a recommendation from a friend rather than trying out several but served its purpose. I put about 9-10k per year on the thing and it's got about 40-45k on it and showing signs of age. I didn't feel like changing out the components again so I'm looking for a new bike. I'd also like to get into some competitive riding. I went out to several local shops and test road a Trek 5200, C'Dale R2000 and Litespeed Tuscany (Ultegra) along w/ some others but these 3 all seemed extremely comfortable. So much so that there was not a comfort difference that could help me distinguish between them. The problem I encountered is that each salesman I talked to (3 at 3 different shops) seemed to indicate that the particular bike I tried at his shop had the best warranty, would last the longest, was the best, etc. So my question to the masses is.....
Which one of these would be the best for 10k+ miles per year and some competitive riding (probably not crits or very few). I would like this thing to last a while because I don't want to buy another frame in the next 4-5 years. If anyone has some experience, opinion, etc on any of these advice would be much appreciated...

Well, methinks the shop people you talked to are spouting hogwash. Here is why I think that. A high mileage cyclist rides about 2000 miles per year. When bikes get to be about 6 years old or even less, most cyclists replace them to get the newest goodies on their bikes. Well that means most cyclists put on no more than 10000 miles on a bike.

I have put over 30000 miles on three different bikes (all Cannondales). None of them showed any sign of "wearing out" and I am a heavy rider (190 lbs) and I ride reasonably fast.

It is my contention that extremely few cyclists put enough miles on a bike to make wear really much of an issue. The three bikes you mentioned, the dale, trek and litespeed are all made by manufacturers who enjoy very good reputations. I would suggest that any of these bikes would hold up for 30000 miles (your proposed usage) that is unless you plan to crash hard and frequently.

As for guarantees, those are not that big of an issue. The issue is does the manufacturer stand behind their stuff? I had a look pedal fail on me. The bike shop called the manufacturer and I was given a better pedal to replace it. That one failed. They gave me still a better pedal yet to replace that one. That one held up. So I have no gripes about look, they stood behind their stuff until I had a good pedal. No complaints from me. I had a cannondale frame fail at a place with a design flaw after about 30000 miles, so they gave a brand new frame of a more advanced design (they had ceased to make the frame I had). I still have that one and I put a pot load more miles on it too.

I am not plugging just for Cannondale. I am sure that Trek and Litespeed would do similar things for their customers.

If you can not decide between the three excellent bikes you are considering, go with the one that has the color you like the best.

Litespeed has a lifetime warrenty on their Ti frames.
Check the websites to get the real scoop on the warrenties.

If you put yourself in a position to crash alot. What do mean by that, just curious? I would stay away from carbon. It does not like impacts. I don't think repair would be easy to come by, if at all. Any experts out there?

AL would be the cheapest and easiest to get repaired. You will lose some comfort though.

Ti can be repaired, but to have done properly takes machining and special high skilled welding = $$$$

I was sold on my ti bike till I tried a carbon Trek. Wow! and they have lifetime warranty too. Should just try one to see the difference, Im glad I did :)

You've had this experience? Or did you just read it out here? I actually own one. And ridden one. And banged one. And crashed one. And this did not occur.

To learn facts....

see what independents thought from different parts of the globe (www.cannondale.com/bikes/media/caad7/)


more facts (www.cannondale.com/bikes/innovation/caad7/)



Oh gee those facts are real great-no bias opinions there!!! Do you think that Cannondale would say anything bad about their own bikes?

Who Dey; 45,000 miles is not a lot of miles. I still ride a bike that I race on for several years starting in 1984 then after that just rode for fitness and fun in mountains around where I lived (up intill 2 months ago). The bike now has over 140,000 miles! 2 summers ago I took the bike to a LBS mechanic friend of mine who use to own a Trek 660 to have him test ride it because I thought maybe the frame was getting tired and time to buy a new one. He rode it for 12 miles and said the frame was still as responsive as a new one would be.

But if you just want a new one because you can afford it and want one then do it, but that frame of yours is not tired.

If you put yourself in a position to crash alot. What do mean by that, just curious? I would stay away from carbon. It does not like impacts. I don't think repair would be easy to come by, if at all. Any experts out there?

I'm no expert but I have worked extensively with composites and carbon fibre.

Certain carbon fibre structures can be repaired. However, most CF bikes
cannot as they are made with thermosets. My MTB is thermoplastic and can
theoretically be repaired but it does take some skill and special voodoo
magic to do it properly... however, it has been done. Many decent CF frame
manufacturers will warranty the hell out of their bikes or else I'd
personally stay away from them. My roadbike comes with a lifetime warranty and
an excellent lifetime crash-replacement program.

Trek carbon bikes can be repaired fairly easily by Trek. The shop manager at the LBS I work for had a nasty crash during a crit on his 5500. The rear stays were totally destroyed. He sent it off to Trek and they fixed it up for him. I don't remember the cost exactly, but it was significantly less then a new frame.

For some reason I personally see Ti as the best choice for a long term purchase. I don't know why and I realize that it's mostly unfounded, but to me it just seems like the more durable choice. Carbon seems almost temporary ( I know it isn't, I can't explain it) That being said, as someone who works in the industry and can honestly say that no one handles warranty issues better then Trek. We've had issues with both Litespeed and C-dale warranty service many times, it played a large part in our decision to drop C-dale a few years ago (they make great bikes, they just suck to deal with the company) Trek is a joy to deal with on the other hand always doing there absolute best to help out and go that extra distance for us and the customer. I can't recomend Trek enough from a service-after-the-sale standpoint.

It's a tought choice, I don't think any one of those bikes stands out as better then the others. I think Trek is the best company to deal with, but that doesn't mean that is the bike I would choose. I envy your dilema.

(oh, and if I had to choose from those 3...I think I'd go with the Tuscany)

Another vote for Ti.

Why consider carbon or Al? I guess they're a touch lighter.


I tend to put myself into more situations of potential accidents than some riders. So my question would be that if I do wreck a CAAD7 frame once or twice and do cause some slight damage, what's the cost of getting that sucker repaired?

It sounds like you might have some experience with this already. First, frame warranty is meaningless if there's any evidence of a wreck, whether related to the failure or not. If repairability is a primary criteria, maybe you should be looking at steel?

And Thylacine makes a good point, too. Have you looked at any Moots? They make a good Ti frame, can do custom if you have a need, and are in Steamboat Springs. (Not that there's anything wrong with the Tuscany.)

Oh gee those facts are real great-no bias opinions there!!! Do you think that Cannondale would say anything bad about their own bikes?

Sorry...I assumed you knew what the word "independent" meant....

Guess not..

[QUOTE=froze]... . I still ride a bike that I race on for several years starting in 1984 then after that just rode for fitness and fun in mountains around where I lived (up intill 2 months ago). The bike now has over 140,000 miles! ... QUOTE]

Froze,

Are you sure your computer isn't broken or reading fast? In order to do that many miles in the time indicated (1984 to present), you would have to ride 60 miles a day, 117 days out of the year for the last 20 years. And it looks like you live in Indiana where it's cold 4 months out of the year ... And it sounds like you did it on a mountain bike ...

Obviously it can be done and if it's true then CONGRATS!!!

-mark

Sorry...I assumed you knew what the word "independent" meant....

Guess not..

Independent means they are reporting their results seperate from any Affliation they may have. I clicked on to the site you mentioned and it took me to a Cannondale site. Do you think that if some people reported bad things that Cannondale would have posted those? Of course not, so Cannondale chose the cream of the reports and posted them. Do you still think that's independent? I call it bias.

Don't get me wrong, I am not saying Cannondales are bad bikes!

All of those bikes in that price range are great.
it depends on your riding style..
I would buy the one that calls me.. you know the one that looks like you should be riding it...
the that fits like a glove. feels so sweet when you touch it...

K

[QUOTE=froze]... . I still ride a bike that I race on for several years starting in 1984 then after that just rode for fitness and fun in mountains around where I lived (up intill 2 months ago). The bike now has over 140,000 miles! ... QUOTE]

-mark

I meant was I riding a road bike on mountain paved roads...sorry for the confusion. The following mileage estimates are rounded to the nearest 1,000 miles. From early 84 till late 89 I averaged 18000 miles a year (about 54 miles a day average, some days less some more of course) due to racing scheduals; so that was 108,000. From 90 to 94 I did not ride at all due to burnout and a new child, thats 0 miles. Then from 95 untill late of 03 I averaged 4,500 miles a year that's 40,000 miles. That's a total of 148,000 I was rounding it down by saying I have over 140,000 miles. And true I could be off by 5,000 miles at the most...but that could be plus or minus!

Since moving to Fort Wayne I have not ridden the bike. But I did buy a trainer here (Cyclops Fluid2) and have a mountain bike hooked to it and not the road bike. As soon as the weather improves out will come the road bike and get off the trainer-it's boring riding indoors!!

I meant was I riding a road bike on mountain paved roads...sorry for the confusion. The following mileage estimates are rounded to the nearest 1,000 miles. From early 84 till late 89 I averaged 18000 miles a year (about 54 miles a day average, some days less some more of course) due to racing scheduals; so that was 108,000. From 90 to 94 I did not ride at all due to burnout and a new child, thats 0 miles. Then from 95 untill late of 03 I averaged 4,500 miles a year that's 40,000 miles. That's a total of 148,000 I was rounding it down by saying I have over 140,000 miles. And true I could be off by 5,000 miles at the most...but that could be plus or minus!

Since moving to Fort Wayne I have not ridden the bike. But I did buy a trainer here (Cyclops Fluid2) and have a mountain bike hooked to it and not the road bike. As soon as the weather improves out will come the road bike and get off the trainer-it's boring riding indoors!!

God bless ya! That's a lot of saddle time.

-mark