Cyclocross - BikesDirect Won't Refund My Money

Even though I had concerns about some of the information I read in this forum, I decided to try to save some money and purchased a bike from bikesdirect.com. I am starting to regret that decision.

I will let this timeline speak for itself:

May 31, 2008. I ordered (and paid for) a 58cm Motobecane Fantom Cross Pro.

June 2. BD sent me an email stating that my bike would ship “mid-June.”

June 16. I visited the BD website, and read that 58cm FC Pros wouldn’t ship until late June or early July. I then emailed BD and was told that my bike should ship by the end of the month.

June 27. In response to my request for another update, BD said that my bike should ship during the second week of July.

July 15. I again asked for an update. BD says 58cms are expected “any day.”

July 24. BD still does not have a 58cm. I couldn’t wait anymore and decided to buy a bike from a LBS. I sent an email to BD cancelling my order and requesting a refund. No response from BD.

July 29. BD did not process a refund with my card company, so I sent another email, again asking about my refund. No response from BD.

This morning. I sent a third email to BD, this time demanding a refund or at least some response. Nothing.

To say the least, I am concerned. BD was responding to my requests for updates on my order until I asked for my money back. Since then, nothing.

I hope this is just a simple misunderstanding. But those of you considering a purchase from BD should be careful.

doesnt the bikesdirect guy post here? hopefully he sees this.

Call your credit card company and dispute the charge, they are generally very helpful.

yeah... the BD guy post quite often. Did you try to call them vs just emali?

Thanks for the replies. I'm working with my credit card company now, but I shouldn't have to.

I see that the BD website says that 58cms will be available at the end of July even though they still don't have any. Looks like they are behind on a lot of things.

I hope someone is still running the show.

I don't think you can call them. I'll double check, but I think they require email communications.

thanks alot for sharing this post. i am sure quite a few people will find it helpful.

more importantly, i hope that this situation resolves itself soon for you.

enjoy your "other" new bike :thumb:

So I like the idea of the credit card company. They can usually fix it. If you didn't receive the product you don't have to worry. Ride safe and lube the chain regularly. lol.

Oh, I love the new bike, a Trek XO1 that I got for $1,200. My commute used to be 2 miles on a paved road and 4 on a bikepath. Now it's 1 mile on a bikepath, 1 on the road, and 4 on dirt. Much more satisfying.

Are you suggesting the transaction cleared months ago, and nothing has been shipped? They shouldn't charge your card until they have your bike. That is a strange business practice.

Yes, I paid for the bike in May. BD processed the payment through PayPal. That's what my credit card company says. And I paid the credit card company.

Not good, and as a prior BD customer, I consider this SHADY.

somewhat related...

i've definitely gotten the itch to get something affordable from bikesdirect in the past. numerous times, i've had my mind all made up to get this or that from that. the reason i still do not have a BD bike? the have NEVER had the bike i wanted in the size i wanted in stock. never. it's always out of stock or awaiting shipment at a future date.

i'm an impulse buyer that requires immediate gratification...i can't want months...

Call your credit card company and dispute the charge, they are generally very helpful.

Best answer. l And you might check their website and your account. You should be apply to request charge be cancelled on ground merchant has not shipped after long delay and notice requesting cancellation. Ordinary procedure will be for CC company to give merchant a period of time [2 weeks ??] to respond with proof, which in your case is most unlikely. And do advise BD what you have done.

Good luck.

Yes, I paid for the bike in May. BD processed the payment through PayPal. That's what my credit card company says. And I paid the credit card company.

Since you paid via paypal, why didn't you use their refund system?

You might end up with an issue since you didn't directly pay with credit card to BD for your bike.. instead you used paypal which withdrew funds from your credit card.

You've been more than fair and patient with BD and they are not able to perform despite you having given them adequate opportunity. Unless the purchase terms require a deposit, legally, your credit card should not be be charged until there is a legal transfer of title to the goods, or the services have been performed. IOW, payment should be processed at the time of shipping for a shipment made FOB factory, warehouse etc., not days or months earlier. I have not used paypal but 1-2 times, but your credit card company will back charge the vendor. We prefer to always use AMEX in transactions like this because their policy favors the consumer. They handle disputes by phone and immediately remove the charge pending the merchant response. We once bought software online with Visa and discovered that the software was not new but an illegal copy that could not be registered. Visa had us write letters to them, fill out forms, over and over, and never removed the charge. We are still out the money after a year.

I'm sure that BD intended to ultimately fill the order, but they failed in their fulfillment obligation and obviously handled the situation poorly.

I came razor close to ordering a bike from BD just last week, but because of the long response time to questions and the lack of a phone number with a live person to contact, I bought my bike at Performance last weekend. Turned out they had a great sale, got a bike I wanted, had better components, good service, and lifetime adjustments. Plus, I got to support their local store which is an important resource to area bikers. Enjoy your new bike!

Mike at BD does post often in other threads and I am interested to see what he has to say about this one. I have done business with BD in the past (Le Champion SL) and was very satisfied. I hope to hear things work out well for you.

RB

There are federal laws that cover this situation. This website from the Federal Trade Commission (FTC) describes what the merchant's obligations are on delayed shipments; it's a federal law. The website gives a step-by-step guide on how to dispute charges with your credit card company and how, ultimately, to file a complaint with the FTC.

http://www.ftc.gov/bcp/edu/pubs/consumer/credit/cre28.shtm


Here is the relevant section from the FTC website:

The Mail or Telephone Order Merchandise Rule

This rule covers merchandise you order by mail, telephone, computer and fax. It requires merchants to have a reasonable basis for claiming they can ship an order within a certain time.
Ship Dates


By law, a merchant should ship your order within the time stated in its ads or over the phone. If the merchant doesn't promise a time, you can expect it to ship your order within 30 days.
The shipment "clock" begins when the merchant receives a "properly completed order." That includes your name, address and payment (check, money order or authorization to charge an existing credit account - whether the account is debited at that time or not).
If the merchant doesn't promise a shipping time and you are applying for credit to pay for your purchase, the merchant has an additional 20 days (50 days total) to establish the account and ship the merchandise. Delays

If the merchant is unable to ship within the promised time, it must notify you by mail, telephone, or email, give a revised shipping date and give you the chance to cancel for a full refund or accept the new shipping date. The merchant also must give you some way to exercise the cancellation option for free, for example, by supplying a prepaid reply card or staffing a toll-free telephone number.

If you ignore the option notice, and the delay is 30 days or less, it's assumed that you accept the delay and are willing to wait for the merchandise.
If you do not respond - and the delay is more than 30 days - the order must be canceled by the 30th day of the delay period and a full refund issued promptly. If the merchant can't meet the revised shipping date, it must notify you again by mail, email or telephone and give you a new shipping date or cancel your order and give you a refund.

The order will be canceled and a refund issued promptly unless you indicate by the revised shipping date that you are willing to wait.
If you do not respond at all to the second notice, it's assumed that you are not willing to wait, and a full refund must be issued promptly.

I'd definitely like to see what's happening here. I'm sticking around for a response of some sort before I throw 800 bucks their way.

I'm shocked - shocked! - to discover that the BD customer service model requires a dissatisfied buyer to post on a Bike Forums message board and hope that the owner of the company eventually wanders by.

Thanks for all the replies. My wife is working with our credit card company. (She has the summer off from work.)

I'm shocked - shocked! - to discover that the BD customer service model requires a dissatisfied buyer to post on a Bike Forums message board and hope that the owner of the company eventually wanders by.

I'm SHOCKED that another BF member would post an irrelevant, sarcastic post! I'm shocked! Not to mention the fact that Mike (apparent owner of BD) is a frequent poster on this message board. I can't explain it, I'm just ShOcKeD!!!!!

You would think it is in their best interest to stop the CC company from pulling that money back. I don't know how well paypal takes things like that, could freeze their account.

I'm SHOCKED that another BF member would post an irrelevant, sarcastic post! I'm shocked! Not to mention the fact that Mike (apparent owner of BD) is a frequent poster on this message board. I can't explain it, I'm just ShOcKeD!!!!!

Hardly irrelevant given the fact that the second post on the thread suggests that maybe Mike will stop by and correct the problem.

Sarcastic? Sure, especially given the circumstance. Rather than camp out on BF, hoping that BD's owner drops in for a visit, how about an 800-number that people with customer service issues can actually, you know, call for help?

Most folks I know who do business with BD have been happy. But If I were Mike I would be interested in making this right. I have considered his frequent posting on BD a pretty savy marketing move and I doubt he would want to screw that up over something like this.

I have considered his frequent posting on BD a pretty savy marketing moveAnd ethically ambiguous (not to mention tacky), considering that commercial solicitation is supposedly forbidden on the BF forums.

I have been seriously thinking about purchasing something from them, but won't pull any trigger until the site shows the size in stock. Are you saying that the site said it was in stock when you purchased it or was the site saying coming soon?

One more thing -- BD doesn't have a phone, but their bricks and mortar operation is apparently a chain of bike stores called Cycle Spectrum, based in Houston, I think.

Phone numbers of their stores are here:
http://cyclespectrum.com/page.cfm?pageID=12

For what it's worth, I would not have bought from BD if I had not read Mike's posts on this forum. He seemed like a responsive guy, and many posters had positive experiences with BD.

BD was very good about answering my questions, until I asked for my money back. I'm actually not convinced that anything dishonest is going on. But I would like an explanation (and a refund). Perhaps, they are overwhelmed right now. Who knows?

Yes, I did know that BD did not have my size when I ordered. (We actually had an email exchange about whether I should order a 58 or a 56, and I knew neither was in stock.) However, they sent me an email saying the bike would ship "mid-june." That, of course, never happened, and the ship date kept getting pushed back. They still don't have my size according to the website.

You might PM Mike at bikesdirect_com here on BF

I am a past, satisfied, Bikes Direct customer.

I ordered the same bike and had the same problem. I resolved it by a PM to mike at bikes direct at this forum. He gave a a smoking deal on a standard Fantom Cross, which I really like. Also an instant credit for the difference. My cross was shipped quickly and has no issues. If you deal with mike this can get taken care of very quickly.

Just a thought, if you're trying to contact Mike directly, he may be on vacation somewhere (maybe a cycle trip?) and hasn't seen your attempts at contact. Maybe.....but still someone should have been responsing to you. As suggested above, I'd call the bike shop and talk only to the manager (ask for Mike...)

And ethically ambiguous (not to mention tacky), considering that commercial solicitation is supposedly forbidden on the BF forums.

So, you can't post on here if you sell or are otherwise in the bike retail business? If I remember right, at least he is a paying BF member (red star), that's more than some other people coming on here hawking thier ultra rides or others. As long as he isn't starting threads saying "Buy this bike from me", I see no problem.

As long as he isn't starting threads saying "Buy this bike from me", I see no problem.


http://www.bikeforums.net/showthread.php?t=405473

He was, at least, responding to BF members requests for info it looks like. BTW- I see he doesn't have a red star....I rescind my statement above. If you are going to use BF to help promote your product, the least you can do is drop $20 to help support the forum. If anything, it looks better to other members (at least to me).

I don't have a problem with Mike Posting here....as long as he clearly identifies his identity and interests. I think that his presence does no harm and serves to add value for a lot of members. It makes the forum more rich in content. I do wish he would contribute to things other than threads about his wares. That makes me think he is primarly here to sell or defend his business.

If nothing else, it has provided some very interesting threads. Personally, as long as folks know what they are getting from him, and get exactly what they expect within the confines agreed upon, I think BD is a great thing. Obviously, I hope the PO and Mike get things worked out.

Two weeks ago my brother called me asking about BD. I was able to give him much more educated advice based largely on how I have seen Mike behave himself here on the forums.....my advice...." Mike is a business man, not necessarily a cyclist at heart. That said, you will get a good bike for the money". My brother ordered, and got a bike that he LOVES for the money.

Any news?

Just another nail in the coffin for BikesDirect.

There is absolutely no excuse for shoddy customer service. Sure, once in awhile things slip through the cracks but after a couple emails, you'd expect some kind of response.......then again, no response if a response, in a "we don't give a ****" kind of way.

There have been similar *****es about IRO. Tony seems a decent guys and people rave about him, but that doesn't help the guy trying to get an answer about his shipment.

So BD Mike hasn't checked in on his customer service rotation yet?

Funny, he does all his market research here.

So BD Mike hasn't checked in on his customer service rotation yet?

Funny, he does all his market research here.

He's apparently too busy pedaling (sp) his wares over in the Fixed Gear forum

http://www.bikeforums.net/showthread.php?t=452040

He's apparently too busy pedaling (sp) his wares over in the Fixed Gear forum

http://www.bikeforums.net/showthread.php?t=452040

I left message over there for him.

Would love to see OP get resolution. My impression is that BD isn't always speedy about answering emails but eventually they settle up.

Even though I had concerns about some of the information I read in this forum, I decided to try to save some money and purchased a bike from bikesdirect.com. I am starting to regret that decision.

I will let this timeline speak for itself:

May 31, 2008. I ordered (and paid for) a 58cm Motobecane Fantom Cross Pro.

June 2. BD sent me an email stating that my bike would ship “mid-June.”

June 16. I visited the BD website, and read that 58cm FC Pros wouldn’t ship until late June or early July. I then emailed BD and was told that my bike should ship by the end of the month.

June 27. In response to my request for another update, BD said that my bike should ship during the second week of July.

July 15. I again asked for an update. BD says 58cms are expected “any day.”

July 24. BD still does not have a 58cm. I couldn’t wait anymore and decided to buy a bike from a LBS. I sent an email to BD cancelling my order and requesting a refund. No response from BD.

July 29. BD did not process a refund with my card company, so I sent another email, again asking about my refund. No response from BD.

This morning. I sent a third email to BD, this time demanding a refund or at least some response. Nothing.

To say the least, I am concerned. BD was responding to my requests for updates on my order until I asked for my money back. Since then, nothing.

I hope this is just a simple misunderstanding. But those of you considering a purchase from BD should be careful.


Hi

Thanks for your order
I am sorry we were sold out; we have had a very hard time getting enough bikes this year.

I have no idea what is happeing with your e-mail
But I intend to find out

Please PM me your full name and transaction number if you have it

As soon as staff gets in on Monday; I will have this handled.

Sorry this did not move quicker and I am unsure why {can not really find out on weekends - Only the Boss works on weekends LOL**

Thanks

Mike

He's apparently too busy pedaling (sp) his wares over in the Fixed Gear forum

http://www.bikeforums.net/showthread.php?t=452040

Actually, I do a sarch on forums twice a day using term 'bikesdirect'
and I never saw this - I do not know why
I search with most current posts first
so why I didn't get this
I have no idea.


Believe me; if I had seen it; I would move quickly

I left message over there for him.

Would love to see OP get resolution. My impression is that BD isn't always speedy about answering emails but eventually they settle up.


THANK YOU
I saw that and I am on the case

What I do not understand is: I do a search twice a day on this and other forums using term 'bikesdirect'
and never saw this post

here is what I get now on search
Could I be doing something wrong in the search??

19% Bike Nashbar's "The Bike Fixie 1"
evildead Aug 7, 2008 10:19 AM
by evildead 25 904 Singlespeed & Fixed Gear
19% What is pcad?
banerjek Aug 7, 2008 11:42 PM
by spinerguy 80 1614 Road Cycling
19% Kilo TT Pro
bdfresh Aug 7, 2008 12:22 PM
by theBEAR 9 376 Singlespeed & Fixed Gear
19% Best value single speed on Bikes Direct ?
OJ_PIMPSON Aug 6, 2008 9:31 PM
by SheistyMike 12 381 Singlespeed & Fixed Gear
19% Bike Nashbar's "The Bike Fixie 1"
evildead Aug 7, 2008 10:19 AM
by evildead 25 904 Singlespeed & Fixed Gear
19% Help with choosing bike for someone new to biking!
hockey9999 Aug 7, 2008 2:58 PM
by hockey9999 37 577 General Cycling Discussion
19% LOOK KEO Recall
BLIZZ Yesterday 4:09 PM
by yogi13 127 3166 Road Cycling
19% Help with choosing bike for someone new to biking!
hockey9999 Aug 7, 2008 2:58 PM
by hockey9999 37 577 General Cycling Discussion
19% New Commuter....my experience. (pics)
Bster13 Aug 5, 2008 2:39 PM
by stringbreaker 36 1133 Commuting
19% Is this a good road bike?
krazykunuk2 Aug 5, 2008 8:42 AM
by Szczuldo 2 71 Road Cycling
19% Trade my car in for a bike? =O
Matterbator Aug 5, 2008 6:29 AM
by kergin 32 404 Road Cycling
19% $500 upgrade budget, what should I do?
astonmartinag Aug 4, 2008 10:28 PM
by RoboCheme 27 287 Road Cycling
19% frame decisions
BYRDO444 Aug 4, 2008 4:03 PM
by harrier 5 151 Singlespeed & Fixed Gear
19% IMPORTANT: Biketiresdirect.com Customers
obra3 Aug 4, 2008 12:06 PM
by pagliaci 44 1164 Road Cycling
19% FS or hardtail?
eyemage Aug 4, 2008 9:55 AM
by jcook1989 3 113 Mountain Biking
19% Which bike would you pick?
Bassanio Aug 4, 2008 5:38 AM
by umd 24 291 Road Cycling
19% IMPORTANT: Biketiresdirect.com Customers
obra3 Aug 4, 2008 12:06 PM
by pagliaci 44 1164 Road Cycling
19% road newb
nepg Aug 3, 2008 8:03 PM
by nepg 2 61 Road Cycling
19% Anyone miss their cross-levers?
kokomo61 Aug 3, 2008 9:25 PM
by ks1g 29 498 Commuting
19% Why shouldn't i buy a department store bike?
kawana Aug 3, 2008 7:53 PM
by Cautionless 33 510 Road Cycling
19% Are Hed jet rims the same design as Carbones?
531Aussie Aug 3, 2008 12:47 PM
by 531Aussie 11 145 Road Cycling
19% Budget Cyclo-cross Bike Questions
jonnojohnson Today 11:59 AM
by ExtremeSelf 12 455 Cyclocross
19% car threads on a bike forum
ZiP0082 Aug 4, 2008 3:36 PM
by jimisnowhere 62 731 Singlespeed & Fixed Gear


This is by post date
and this thread does not show up!
Strange

Actually, I do a sarch on forums twice a day using term 'bikesdirect'
and I never saw this - I do not know why
I search with most current posts first
so why I didn't get this
I have no idea.


Believe me; if I had seen it; I would move quickly

Thanks for following up...
:thumb:

He was, at least, responding to BF members requests for info it looks like. BTW- I see he doesn't have a red star....I rescind my statement above. If you are going to use BF to help promote your product, the least you can do is drop $20 to help support the forum. If anything, it looks better to other members (at least to me).


We have several another name with a red star
and we are the biggest advertiser on BF [I have been told]

But I use a ID without Red Star so that I can see ads when I am on [Star makes them go away]

~~~~~~~~~~

Scanned on OP posted last name of 'GEE' on the credit card system
found 3 sales since May to customers named "GEE" or "McGEE" - none to the OP

However, as soon as I get complete info on this situation
I am all over it

Unlike a few that have posted - I will not jump to conclusions about what happened; I will get all the details.

Of course, we are not holding anyone's money without intention of properly handling transaction
That would be crazy; none stays in an industry for 30 years like I have by doing such things!

hey mike, i don't bother using the forum search function anymore. i've had too much trouble with it.

i just go to google, type in my search terms and follow them with site:bikeforums.net

hope that helps.

Because God forbid anyone jump to a conclusion.

hey mike, i don't bother using the forum search function anymore. i've had too much trouble with it.

i just go to google, type in my search terms and follow them with site:bikeforums.net

hope that helps.

I'll try that
Thanks

What I do is scan twice a day to see if anything is going on

I PM's OP in the case and hope I get an answer
And I scanned for his e-mails and can not find [he may have sent to old or invalid email addresses instead of the odds posted on the site] I have more than doubled the people answering email and can not imagine anyone shipping his; I hope to find this all out quickly.

One more thing -- BD doesn't have a phone, but their bricks and mortar operation is apparently a chain of bike stores called Cycle Spectrum, based in Houston, I think.



Actually; we have a credit card processing / issue phone and a fax and several e-mails
All posted on our site at this location

http://www.bikesdirect.com/contact.htm

Plus I look at forums daily for issues

I am focused on having great customer service in addition to our already most competitive prices in the industry.

I have no idea how OP's attempt to communicate with us failed; but I intend to find out [and of course, get his transaction handled]

mike