Electric Bikes - Gas, Gashol, Alcohol or Diesel, & Alternative Powered Bicycles

This is the thread for discussing all other methods of propelling a bicycle or HPV (Wind, Steam, Rubber bands, Clockwork, Compressed Air, Hamsters on Treadmills etc etc).
Please keep the main Electic Bikes Forum for ONLY discussing electric bikes.

http://i201.photobucket.com/albums/aa276/Sianelleofavelorn/bikesailing.jpg

Please keep all discussion about Internal Combustion Engine powered bicycles in this thread. The main Electric Bike Forum is ONLY for discussing electric powered bicycles and HPVs.

Please Note: It is NOT permitted to discuss either motorcycles or scooters in this thread.

http://i201.photobucket.com/albums/aa276/Sianelleofavelorn/BikeMuseum-1.jpg

This is a link to a video of two compressed air bikes under test. The commentary is in French, but that doesn't take much away from the video. Watch the sound volume because these bikes are very noisy which is something that would need to be worked on IMHO before they could be used on the road.

http://www.archive.org/details/ElectroAirBike

http://www.electroairbike.com

This is a link to a successful steam powered aeroplane built in 1933. Yes I do know it's not a bicycle, but the schematics and other diagrams would also work just as well if applied to a bicycle.

http://www.rexresearch.com/besler/beslerst.htm

Sianelle:
I will try to contribute something, as soon as I can. Oh no, another project bike :)

Thanks

My own bike is in bits in the garage :o Then on the other hand the weather has been so awful the local ducks have got up a petition :rolleyes:

I'll look forward to reading more about your project porschetoyz :)

That steam powered plane is cool. Trouble is, it's not exactly alternative fuel. They used oil.

I guess you could power one with wvo which would make it alternative. A simpler, cheaper, possibly more efficient method of wvo propolsion is diesel. Anybody got any biodiesel powered bikes out there?

There is a company that makes a diesel motorcycle for the military. It is klr 650 based and is supposed to be good for 120 mpg. There is supposed to be a civilian one in the works, but, it will be $$$$$.

Steam is of interest to me because where I live is close to enormous plantation forests and it's easy to get hold of sawdust and mill slab for very cheap (sometimes free!). Travel over vasty distances doesn't bother me much because I'm perfectly content to stay in my own district and have nuffing to do with 'them odd folk over hill'. If I can travel to the surrounding villages I'm perfectly content and really steam would be just corker for that :thumb:

http://i201.photobucket.com/albums/aa276/Sianelleofavelorn/classic_600.jpg

I don't have a gas powered bike anymore but I bought an engine awhile ago out of boredom. I put it on a mountain bike and then on a LWB recumbent. I will toss some pictures up after work.

Someone pointed out there is a better forum/source of information about gas assist bikes on the net. Where/what is it?
Scott

Check out Alcohol Can Be A Gas by David Blume. There is a nice section in there about small engines that I hope to be getting the best of here before too long. We are looking at raising the compression on small 4 strokes enough to burn the fuel correctly and introducing HHO to the mix also with a small generator run off an alternator. Gotta be ready for anything anymore.

Try these perhaps?

http://www.motoredbikes.com/index.php?

http://motorbicycling.com/

Interesting idea. Is it going to be multifuel capable, or just alcohol?

I own all kinds of these kits. I have built a few for people, that use them for commuting.

This has been the best out there, in my experience. I am 220. if you weigh more there is a bigger engine there http://www.staton-inc.com/Details.asp?ProductID=3316

200 miles per gallon cant be beat!

of course the only drawback is that is doesnt work when its raining. for that I would go with a chain drive.

Due to the higher compression if gas is used it must be of the highest octane available or lesser with an additive booster. The idea is towards self sufficiency with this though and our efforts will be grass root (i just can't stop with the innuendo's tonight) to start of course but perhaps as time goes on the idea will spread? A small legal operation to manufacture ethanol at a rate of 4-5 gallons an hour is not that much of an investment actually. The ethanol will not be made using corn either to quell that argument in the bud. There are many forms of biomass that can be used that are far superior to corn that don't take anything away from food producing agricultural land. One of my favorites is spent wort from beer production! And of course grass clippings as alluded to earlier. In fact according to Blume corn is perhaps one of the worst options available.

And thanks for moving this to the correct spot. After reading that poll thread I for sure was worried about panties bunching but it seems like the higher powers here at least have level heads.

Can you attatch one of these onto your mountain bike and still be able to ride on singletrack? When you do add this engine to your bike, does it lose its status as an unpowered vehicle?

There are some that would say yes, http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=n0eZynCSNyU
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But I for one am not there with the concept. For one thing you had better make sure that land use regulations allow it. The bikes pictured would not meet legal criteria for street use either as the engines are too many cc's.

I guess I always considered bicycles to be powered vehicles to begin with? Putting a small engine of any sort, gas or electric, does change the vibe for sure. You just have to come to grips with what your needs are and for me hauling heavy loads that would normally have to go via auto by bike is a priority. The use of motor assist makes that mission safer and more pleasurable.

Did some mods to the bicycle utility motorassist vehicle today. Basically swapped out a cheap 26" sus fork front end for a cheap 700c rigid. The front end is much less vague with no loss of comfort. Used a NOS Girvin Flex Stem that I had in stock which I am not sure does much but it looks cool! Surprisingly I had a couple of other choices of 1 1/8" quill stems to choose from also that I had forgotten about in this age of threadless.
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This bike is so super that I thought this old Speedwell head badge was appropriate so I stuck it on also.
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Took a few errand runs today and one was to get a steerer tube cut and starfangled nut installed for my town bike at the bike shop cause I don't have the proper tools to do so. It was $4 well spent and got to rip around some and show off the bumvee at the bike shop. The manager took it for a short beat and came back with a big grin on his face and the wheels turning in his head....The flatbed makes it easy to transport stuff, just need a few bungies.
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The little rack pack stays there nicely after threading the attachment straps around one of the bed boards. Makes a handy place to keep the lock and tool kit/flat stuff. This bike will carry a pretty good load without any effort on its part or the operators:lol:

Call me crazy, but the thought of having live steam that close to fairly sensitive portions of my anatomy gives me the heebies.

I'm old enough to remember such vehicles (if you want to call them that) in Chicago, only we called them "weenie wagons" or hot dog carts. Same copious venting of steam, large yellow umbrella shading the 'works' and rider. I'm certain ours smelled ( and tasted) much better than the one posted. Ah, I can taste it now, a good Kosher dog on a steamed bun, slathered with mustard, relish, onions, cukes and hot peppers washed down by a favorite cold beverage! Life was, still is, good!

How you gonna ride these things I wonder. Moreover how you gonna handle such a piece of metal if you have to manually move it in small space like a room or garage at least. However someone might have a pleasure to try to ride such a thing. I would certainly try this one :roflmao2:

http://goblinmotors.com

This is a Sun USX trike with a Subaru Robin or Honda 33 - 50 cc gas engine mounted onto an industrial strength gearbox with a partial velomobile body. The drive is by Staton, and what is really interesting is that Staton is working on a bolt on electric motor for the same drivetrain, thus making the Goblin a three way hybrid vehicle - human, gas, electric power! Were it only totally enclosed! Price point (in US$) is right where Bluevelo in Toronto has placed their Team velomobile. Interesting!

The fellow who put it all together makes 'fiberglass rocks and waterfalls' in Tucson, Az. USA.

Cool bananas :):thumb:

Have you perhaps seen this velomobile? http://www.lightfootcycles.com/rainshadow.htm

http://www.lightfootcycles.com/rainshadowVleft.jpg

http://au.youtube.com/watch?v=GjsWmQCVQGs&eurl=http://au.youtube.com/my_videos_edit2&feature=player_embedded

Amazing utility bicycle Mabman :thumb:

You have built yourself a thoroughly practical powered bicycle and I luv it :love:

High praise from a higher power, I am glad that you see it for what it is Sister Annie and I thank you. I actually have dubbed that bike the Bicycle Utility Motorassist Vehicle or Bumvee for short.

However the next versions will be more refined and to all those that think that ICE's are the devil be comforted by the fact that they will be able to mount an electric motor in its place. We are using gas currently because it is way cheaper to build our prototypes that way to refine the drivetrain.
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Our short range goal is to distill alcohol under BATF permits and raise the compression ratio as high as we can get it to take advantage of some homegrown fuel. After we refine how we are going to generate power enough to keep a battery charged/run lighting the first thing I am going to do is mount a front hub motor on mine and have a two wheel drive hybrid and that is a moment worth waiting for I think.

I'm a keen utility bicycle/tricycle user Mabman. I much prefer to be out and about on a pedal powered vehicle than a car any day of the week :)
Others have seen my tricycle before, but I'll show it off again anyway :D

http://i201.photobucket.com/albums/aa276/Sianelleofavelorn/AnniesHerculesTrike-1.jpg

I can fit various wicker carrying baskets or a highside mesh body for carrying compost, garden waste & etc onto my tricycle and it has been called on to carry some quite amazing loads at times. It's almost two years now since I built my tricycle up and it's been completely reliable. :saweeet:

Your alternative fuel experiments sound really interesting btw and I look forward to reading more about it.

Now I have seen some experiments with hybrid drive done somewhere before and from what I remember they were really successful........

Ah, here we are..... http://www.motoredbikes.com/showthread.php?t=7756

I have always admired your bike, it is obviously a work of Annie.

I have had several front hub motored bicycles and I always considered them to be 2 wheel drive as one is able to churn the cranks to transmit power to the rear wheel(s). They work really well in snow and I know that from experience traveling frozen snowmobile and groomed XC ski trails back in 01'. I never could get enough out of an SLA system though to satisfy my needs (especially in cold weather) although I pedaled at the top of my gearing at all times I couldn't get any more than 30 miles and when you are having that much fun 30 miles (2 hours or so) is not enough. But with the gas engine charging a lighter battery like a NiMh or Li Ion and having enough storage in that battery to operate the electric alone for a decent period, say 10 miles or so and have enough for the lighting system and electric start and onboard compressor, not that much added weight:eek:. 2WD Euipped MAB's will be in the vacinity of 70 lbs. and hopefully less but losing weight via components etc. on a MAB is not as crucial as the ones I maintain for pedaling in the forest where I am solely responsible.

A decent tandem will handle two 250 lb individuals and the stronger ones weigh in at 50+ lbs so my 180 lb. loaded body on a 70 lb. bike should be able to carry an additional 300 lbs of weight before things start needing to be re-engineered?

And also I like your modular carry all system. It is what we are trying to strive for also. If you notice the large post holding the front of the rack on the raw bike in the picture that is our central mounting point but nothing more than a standard seattube that will hold a 27.2 seatpost or its equivalent. It is very solid and any manner of rack can be assembled around it and using other contact points on the frame as well. Plus we have a tandem that just happens to have a 27.2 Cane Creek short travel post in it with a Brooks Contessa brass rivet saddle and a 27.2 front saddle with a stoker grip set up on it and when I get my R/S bike going we are going to have to slap it all on there and try it out.

I'd noticed the way you'd setup that seatpost mounting and I thought it was a really clever idea. I must try to do something similar on the next utility bike/trike I build.:thumb: My 'modular' basket and carrying tray setup isn't anything like so elegant. The main reason for that is because I usually need to carry something right now and things get built in a hurry. :o

Ta for saying nice things about my tricycle :) Now that it's Summer and we've got a lot of tourists and visitors in town my tricycle gets its photo taken all the time.

I'm a keen utility bicycle/tricycle user Mabman. I much prefer to be out and about on a pedal powered vehicle than a car any day of the week :)
Others have seen my tricycle before, but I'll show it off again anyway :D

http://i201.photobucket.com/albums/aa276/Sianelleofavelorn/AnniesHerculesTrike-1.jpg

I can fit various wicker carrying baskets or a highside mesh body for carrying compost, garden waste & etc onto my tricycle and it has been called on to carry some quite amazing loads at times. It's almost two years now since I built my tricycle up and it's been completely reliable. :saweeet:

Your alternative fuel experiments sound really interesting btw and I look forward to reading more about it.

Now I have seen some experiments with hybrid drive done somewhere before and from what I remember they were really successful........

Ah, here we are..... http://www.motoredbikes.com/showthread.php?t=7756

I just love looking at your trike - it just seems - so right - for want of better words. I know you must enjoy riding it, maintaining it, even talking about it, the classic simplicity of the whole package is just - right! Enjoy!

I'm closely watching the development of the Staton hybrid drive. Current technology of solar panels prevents building a system that allows real time generation of sufficient current to drive a motor of significant size, and barring a breakthrough, I doubt I'll see such a thing in my lifetime. The idea of using biofuels to power a small internal combustion engine to assist pedaling, and charge batteries is brilliant. A small ICE that would run on E85 would be a real breakthrough! I figure that at least 3 hp if not more wouild be needed to assist and drive a small genset, although that power point is probably too low to start from dead stop and generate some wattage at the same time, unless driven through the bike gears or a seperate gearbox. Time will tell.

The way I see it if you are running an ICE on a homegrown or reclaimed source of fuel to assist your normal pedaling then there really is no need to have an electric motor at all? But still you could generate power in to a battery for your lighting system? My goal of utilizing both is more at this time is to see how feasible/useful it can be.

Staton's system looks like a DC generator that is plumbed in to their 18.75:1 gear box which will in fact rob a substantial amoun of hp from the ICE that it is hooked to to make it efficient and I suppose that is what is holding them up because 49cc - ICE's that produce 3 or more hp stock are non existent outside of the pocket bike world as far as I know. 49cc being the legal cut off point size limit under federal/state regs with some states like OR being only 35cc.

Here is a picture of a setup similar to what Staton is up to as far as a DC generator run by an ICE. I don't think it worked well enough for the person that built it to pursue it any further than this rather crude stage. Perhaps with a larger motor he would have had more luck. Putting all this stuff on a trailer that can be easily detached has some merits however.
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One point in his favor is I think he said he had less than $300 in the whole setup including the trailer that he got off of CL.

That is why we think that the best that can be done within the current regulatory guidelines is to capture parasitic power from a 2 hp ICE and charge a battery and then run the electric off the battery. You can still run the ICE to keep the battery charging but then why have the electric motor? That way you could motor in to town on the ICE and do your intown running around on the electric, then motor home. A voltmeter would keep track of your charge and if you are not getting enough with the ICE runtime you can do an aux charge at home or work. Having a constant power source for lighting so that you could do away with all the different small batteries would be a plus also and you could fit the ICE easily with electric start.

But is the extra fooling around and ending up with a heavier overall more expensive bicycle worth it? It is entirely possible to run small engines on alcohol and has been done in the past by David Blume with mopeds as illustrated in his book "Alcohol Can Be A Gas" which as far as I can tell is the alcohol bible. The cold starting issue can be addressed with some ether and you an recapture heat off the exhaust manifold with a shield and direct it in to the intake manifold as a vaporizer. As I said alcohol likes high compression and the small 4 stroke ICE's don't lead in that field in stock form but can be modified to get as much as possible but still only around 10:1. The aforementiond pocket bike 2 cycle engines can have as much as 14:1 and I have seen them listed with as much as 14hp:eek:.

Running alcohol/castor bean/hho generator on a 2 cycle would easily yield in the 200 mpg range. All the products would be non invasive and non polluting but the 2 stroke would still sound like a 2 stroke which are quite a bit louder overall than their 4 cycle cousins that can run on alcohol alone or even in conjunction with hho (Brown's Gas) with the power for the hho generator coming from the battery once again.

As much as I want to see electric bikes succeed every time I compare them with ICE they come up lacking. However a hybridization of the two is worth looking in to and we will be doing so by next spring at the latest.

I was an opponent to the gas powered sub-section in BF in the "poll thread"- not out of an ignorance of gas powered bikes but from some familiarity.

I just thought I'd revisit after having had a bit of time away from the original discussion and to share a slightly modified perspective on the gas powered engine bikes being discussed.

I still have major concerns regarding these bikes, particularly the 2 stroke gas engines:

1) Noise level.

2) Pollutants.

3) Where the bikes are ridden- MUP's, trails, bike lanes?

4) Safety

5) Mechanical reliability and integrity.

However, a nephew of mine who is an excellent bicyclist and professional frame builder has been tinkering about in this arena and has me reconsidering how these bikes can have a place in that interesting territory of assisted bicycles and provide a fun alternative to either an automobile or a pedal only bicycle.

The discussions I see starting to evolve on alternative fuel sources are a step in a direction that makes me less apprehensive about these bikes gaining popularity.

I'm now thinking that by including this sub-section within bike forums a healthy perspective might be gained by those of us voicing some skepticism and challenging those who wish to build, use or design these bikes to take factors like noise and environmental concerns into consideration.

Do most of you who use these bikes share these concerns or are they something that just don't come into the picture?

buzzman -

Are you sure you want replies? ;)

Personally, I think far too many people have their noses where they don't belong, i.e. in other people's business. Sure, the actions of others affect everyone else as freedom demands nothing less. As long as no direct, immediate threat to life results from one's actions, live and let live. Freedom means the willingness to accept risk. Rather than state coercion or force, education is the best tool for changing perspectives and actions. It's encouraging to see your changing perspective. True, ICE's are relatively noisy, etc. Let innovation in technology and the market drive the changes. Lastly, let's encourage personal responsibility without using the force of the state. IMO, there should be a sub-section on assisted bicycles which are non-electric.

I have been tracking the fossil fuel forums and have a few conclusions.

A: The prevalent ICE engine being used is the very engine that China banned and replaced with electric. They didn't ban their manufacture and sales to other countries however. These motors are 2 cycle and are 48cc and 66cc generally. With most opting for the larger motor, although it violates the federal size regulation of 49cc. There are manufacturers that state that their motors are EPA but the certification is listed as non-road.
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And the quality of the motors is evident here:
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The selling factor and the following these engines has is due to the fact that they are the cheapest motor available outside of stripping ones off chainsaws, leafblowers, weedwhackers etc. and believe me there is plenty of that going on in the garages of America also. Readily available on eBay as a kit and can be had for $129 shipped to your door. Probably won't get that sticker with one though cause it cost more for that.:rolleyes:

B: The small 4 cycle engines that have been developed the last 10 years to qualify for CARB requirements have meant leaps and bounds of technology compared to the old B & S engines on that toro mower you used to push around the yard, or had on your mini bike. The cream of the tech crop though is the oil system actually. 4 cycle engines typically can't run upside down because oil from the sump will get in to the head and stop combustion. Ryobi was the first to make a vented oil system so that they could run their motor as you would be able to a 2 stroke, but this feature really only pertains to the aforementioned chainsaws etc.. Ryobi never did much with their motor but put it on cheap weedwhackers but Honda and Subaru/Robin both make excellent small engines in 25cc, 35cc and 49cc models. There is even a chinese knock off of the Honda motor. As far as noise pollution goes the 4 cycle engines can be muffled down to a very low tone. The 2 strokes are louder but can also be muffled well enough and will be when we get them on alcohol. Gear boxes can be noisy if straight cut gears are used, but more efficient drivetrains are being developed.

The price for these motors in kit form are typically 2 to 3 times the investment of their 2 stroke cousins, but offer better mileage and are cleaner burning on regular fuel that doesn't have to be mixed with oil. They are also bulkier and when mounted in the front triangle they are wider and require a much wider bb spindle or some form or bent outward cranks. This makes it awkward for actual pedaling but more on that in a minute.

C: As Buzzman said, some folks that have been around bicycles for a long time and are involved in the industry are starting to pay attention to this concept, more so than electric I am afraid. We are cyclists first and foremost whereas the motorized bike crowd tends to want to just get a motor going and stop in the middle of the hill for a smoke and aren't that interested in pedaling. But as a motor assist bicycle if you maintain the gearing to be able to keep resistance to the pedals at full range of the motor via gearing you not only get a nice workout, you get better mileage because you are staying on step with the motor more. It is a phenomenon that you have to experience. But I can guarantee that it is the one that will make converts out of the most holy in the end.

D: Research and Development is ongoing. Most of the people that are involved with this are willing to share information freely because they see it as something good and the more people that are involved and the sooner this type of technology is embraced the better. This is an interesting link that shows that perhaps the future of our planet is in good hands? http://anuj.ch.googlepages.com/ucb_smv_efi Of course there is the CPSC, the EPA and DOT to deal with and that will ultimately be the sludge that slows this down if allowed to.

buzzman -

Are you sure you want replies? ;)


you bet I do!

I'm curious. I worked around these things back in the 70's and as far as I can see there aren't many improvements in the 2-stroke engines and am not that familiar with the 4 stroke improvements. As far as I can see is there haven't been that many "improvements" in the 2-stroke other than that cheap versions are being imported from China. Nor do I feel there is that much more improvement possible in the basic design since the engine is just that, basic. But if it ran on an alternative fuel, like alcohol and had a better muffler...

but the 4 stokes intrigue me.

As a mechanic I found them a fun bike to work on and kind of fun to ride. As a cyclist I'd be hard pressed to give up pedaling in favor of an assisted bike but see how they could be attractive to some riders. As a person interested in alternative and more ecological transportation modes I think they offer some real potential and some drawbacks.

I have extremely limited experience with electric assist bikes as a comparison.

Basically, the newer 2 stroke * diesel engines are much improved, but there's a huge number of older 2 stroke gasoline engines which can even be significantly improved with a slight redesign. Some kids from Denmark were in the news recently about the latter. Although the noise of 2 stroke engines can be much reduced with adequate mufflers, one local chap has a retrofitted bicycle with a gasoline 2 stroke engine which he rides around town, but it's a cheap DIY retrofit lacking in some necessary details. ;) The noise is so loud one can hear the echoes of him passing a mile away. A group of those bikes would awaken the dead.

* http://www.pivotalengine.com - A 2 stroke REDESIGN for scooters, motorcycles, or cars, but possibly could be adapted to smaller frames like bicycles.

Basically, the newer 2 stroke * diesel engines are much improved, but there's a huge number of older 2 stroke gasoline engines which can even be significantly improved with a slight redesign. Some kids from Denmark were in the news recently about the latter. Although the noise of 2 stroke engines can be much reduced with adequate mufflers, one local chap has a retrofitted bicycle with a gasoline 2 stroke engine which he rides around town, but it's a cheap DIY retrofit lacking in some necessary details. ;) The noise is so loud one can hear the echoes of him passing a mile away. A group of those bikes would awaken the dead.

* http://www.pivotalengine.com - A 2 stroke REDESIGN for scooters, motorcycles, or cars, but possibly could be adapted to smaller frames like bicycles.

The link you provided is the only example of an improved 2 stroke engine even by their own admission. It's cost and the applications it is designed for make it an unlikely choice for use as assisted power on a bicycle. Do you have a link to a diesel 2 stroke that would fit on a bicycle frame and is cost effective for such use? A diesel would at least have the potential for a bio-fuel conversion. Or do you have more info on what the Danish kids were doing? And what significant improvements are you talking about and through what "slight redesign"?

Why does the engine even have to be re-invented? There are plenty, in fact all ICE's, that will run on alcohol with some modifications and duel fuel vehicles on the market today that need nothing other than a reliable source of supply. And the necessary biomass can be grown on untillable land. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Alcohol_fuel You will be waiting a long time for a diesel engine small enough for motor assist, if ever, and diesel bio fuel biomass is more apt to take up valuable tillable land, or in the case of palm oil the cutting of forests.

The link you provided is the only example of an improved 2 stroke engine even by their own admission. It's cost and the applications it is designed for make it an unlikely choice for use as assisted power on a bicycle.

Personally, I wouldn't dismiss the possibility. The current form factor even with a single cylinder is a bit large, but that problem shouldn't be too much of an obstacle. Production costs for a limited market would be a bigger problem...The pivotal engine is a good example of the innovation possible with the ICE with current applications including scooters and motorcycles.



Do you have a link to a diesel 2 stroke that would fit on a bicycle frame and is cost effective for such use? A diesel would at least have the potential for a bio-fuel conversion. Or do you have more info on what the Danish kids were doing? And what significant improvements are you talking about and through what "slight redesign"?http://www.ecogeek.org/content/view/1641/71/

Sure, just search for Lohmann engine developed back in 1950s or so. PRACTICA is developing a newer 18cc engine that can be adapted to a bike. No, you won't find pre-built diesel KITS yet, but the market will respond to demand in time. http://www.practicafoundation.nl/products/under-development/micro-diesel-engine/

With a conventional 2 stroke diesel, you're looking at engines from 20cc - 50 cc for possible adaptation to a bicycle.

This is the motor that will rule the motor assist market about the time that micro diesels do. http://www.weberprecision.com/

Enjoy your fantasy boys. Market demands for diesel for this type of application are a fraction of fraction of a percentage and looking to stay that way, mainly because it is easier to get people to just go the path of least resistance. And at this time the cheap chinese 2 strokes rule that roost. In the meantime there are plenty that are not just talking about viable motor assist, they are doing it with products that are available today in the real world with impressive results of range and fuel economy. Last years Shell Eco-Challenge was won with an ICE that got 2800mpg.

Carry on.

On the way to mach 9,

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=I9V6VpoED4A

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=L5bPu58fSc0

(I'm wondering what happens when you hit something at 6,453 mph. Watching it happen certainly gives a sense of speed....)

Sianelle, Don't miss these
http://endless-sphere.com/forums/viewtopic.php?f=12&t=8099

gee heres a great idea instead of electricity and gas and everything tray using your fat but to power the bike... amazing oh heres a tip: dont loose the bike betwene your massive cheeks

. Last years Shell Eco-Challenge was won with an ICE that got 2800mpg.

Carry on.

Just to set the record straight it's this:

Mater Dei's 2,843.4 mpg achievement stretches boundaries of fuel efficiency at the 2008 Shell Eco-marathon Americas.

anon
ray

Can you attatch one of these onto your mountain bike and still be able to ride on singletrack? When you do add this engine to your bike, does it lose its status as an unpowered vehicle?

You need to check the legal restrictions for you state. It varies. For instance, I'm in California and mine can follow regular bike limitations as long as the motor is at or under 2hp and has a top speed under 30mph.
I can even ride it on bike trails, as long as I just peddle it without the motor running.

TheDave

I thought I'd post this article here as it is an effective means of power-assist and uses plain old diesel fuel. I have recently discovered two implementations of this technique and I offer them up for consideration here.

http://www.moulton-forum.de/viewtopic.php?t=247
http://www.flickr.com/photos/33566986@N03/

The first two pictures of the flickr site show the second implementation I mentioned, along with the intrepid and fearless pilot. This version uses a combination of a model jet and a turbo-charger, but I cannot imagine how they are connected or why. I would have thought the jet was enough.

I understand that the base price for these engines runs around $2K. The article from the moulton-forum explains more. One issue may be the noise, these little engines create the most staggering racket imaginable. But in the interests of technology - these are but small matters.

Lawrence

How about propane power? It is very clean and moderately quiet and methane or hydrogen is also a more eco friendly alternative.

Extremly small and light engines made for ultra-light aircraft should be extremly well suited for something like a recumbent trike as well. If you had the skill you could rig up a chain or even belt drive to the front wheel and keep pedal power as well. It would be a challenge, but certainly possible and it would be able to deliver some extreme fuel-mileage and power/speed.

propane works but over time warps the valves. most of my projects are mostly electric but have changed to working on alternative fuels. also been looking at picking up the Honda gx25 to see what other fuels i can get it to work with ;)


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tFDPVvsq9sY&feature=related

The Subaru Robin engines are generally considered to be a better product than the Honda's. Made in Japan as opposed to Thailand and a steel cylinder sleeve instead of aluminum.

http://www.robinamerica.com/series.aspx?sid=21

There is a company developing a very slick use for this engine adaptable to any 2 or three wheeled bike that should be available in the near future.

Alcohol is a good fuel for that 2 stroke. There is a good chapter on that in David Blumes book. But those Chinese 2 stroke kits are sketchy at best. There is a Russian version of it also but hard to find and harder to find parts for. Tanaka makes a really nice 2 stroke and so does Mitsubishi but are generally used for rear mount application via chain, belt or friction.

The Subaru Robin engines are generally considered to be a better product than the Honda's. Made in Japan as opposed to Thailand and a steel cylinder sleeve instead of aluminum.

http://www.robinamerica.com/series.aspx?sid=21

There is a company developing a very slick use for this engine adaptable to any 2 or three wheeled bike that should be available in the near future.

Alcohol is a good fuel for that 2 stroke. There is a good chapter on that in David Blumes book. But those Chinese 2 stroke kits are sketchy at best. There is a Russian version of it also but hard to find and harder to find parts for. Tanaka makes a really nice 2 stroke and so does Mitsubishi but are generally used for rear mount application via chain, belt or friction.

i picked up the honda gx50 4 stroke i love it. i found the 2 stroke to be a very dirty motor
good if you have a garage but if your living in a apartment you need to put a bag over the pipe if you have carpet. drips black oil everywhere. well that and the oil gets all over the rear of the bike and on your shoes when running.

the gx50 has a cast iron sleeve.

http://www.youtube.com/user/karmabike1911#p/u/3/X5bpGnzpZEA